A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
Which book did you prefer AFFC or ADWD?
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There's no question in my mind: AFFC was the better book. It was more coherent, had more intricate themes, and far less padding. Sure, it lacked some of my favourite characters, like Tyrion and Dany, and introduced a number of characters, some of whom were very boring (I detest all the Greyjoys except Asha). But it also offered a wider perspective on the world of Westeros and the war. It was great to see new places like Dorne and Oldtown in Westeros, as well as all the places in the Riverlands that Brienne visits. Not to mention the great description of Braavos in the Arya chapters, and a closer look at the Eyrie and the Vale in the Sansa chapters. The story of AFFC also has a fairly clear beginning, middle and end, even if it does end on cliffhangers for a number of PoV characters.ADWD was not a bad book by any means (none of the ASOIF books are remotely bad!) but it was a tiresomely long and padded book. There were way too many PoV characters, and way, way, WAY too much repetition of certain words, situations and ideas. Most of the main characters seemed to be caught in a holding pattern that they seemed unable to break out of. For example, Dany spent more than half the book passively worrying about her dragons and her people, or dreaming about Daario. Theon spent most of the book thinking ‘My name is Reek, it rhymes with ____’. Tyrion spent most the book being drunk and depressed, and lurching from one disaster to another – and lacking many of the characteristics that made him an interesting character in the first place, i.e. his wit, his ability to talk his way out of any situation, etc. Jon spent most of the book systematically pissing off all his colleagues. Stannis and his followers (including Asha) spent the majority of their time being stuck in the snow, while the Boltons’ group spent their time stuck inside Winterfell. Quentyn Martell spent his time being the most useless person to ever grace the pages of this series.
The story of ADWD has no definite end. There aren’t even any cliffhangers except in Jon’s case, and maybe Dany’s. The battle of Meereen is imminent for about half the book, but never even gets started in the end. The battle of Winterfell, ditto. Jon Connington, Aegon and the Golden Company seem all set to storm King’s Landing … but then nothing happens. Jon Snow keeps preparing for an attack from the Others … but then nothing happens (on that front). Victarion is on his way to find Dany and her dragons – but hasn’t even reached Meereen yet. Basically, the whole book feels like the last chapter of every PoV character except Jon was arbitrarily chopped off.
OMG Mitali, you seriously just took all the words from my mouth.DAMN YOU!
But yah, I completely agree with that. I don't think I've ever agreed this much with anyone on the internet before...ever. So much yes.
Amber wrote: "OMG Mitali, you seriously just took all the words from my mouth.DAMN YOU!
But yah, I completely agree with that. I don't think I've ever agreed this much with anyone on the internet before...ev..."
Ha ha, thanks. I thought most people would disagree with me, as AFFC seems to be the red-headed stepchild of the ASOIF series.
I know exactly what you mean. I think a lot of people didn't care for it simply because it was missing action from what I consider the big three. Jon, Dany, and Tyrion.Personally, I'm a bit tired of all those characters, Tyrion still holds my attention simply because he's Tyrion and all the Lannister's POV's hold my attention, but, if I have to read "where to whores go" one more time he just might lose me. LOL.
I thought all the background was really interesting in FFC and it had so much stuff going on with Arya, I loved it.
Dance was so slow for me, took me near a whole month to read because I, mostly, just didn't care and I felt like nothing was happening. Even some of the more climatic events that I see a lot of fans really nervous about, I just had no reaction.
LOVE JAMIE LANNISTER NOW! LiL'bit of a Man-crush, what?!? I liked him & Sandor when I first started but now I'm really interested in Jamie's POV & what he will do in the future...
Amber it was u & Nelson that got me to go back & read parts of AFFC again & making slightly better than ADWD, slightly lol... I loved Dorne like u guys mentioned but besides Asha I could care less about the Iron Born no matter how important they are (fingers crossed if Martin is going to make any of them pivotal it will be Asha)
That's pretty funny. It looks like almost everyone feels that way about the Iron Born.I myself couldn't care less about them, but I adore Asha, I'd put her right up in my favorites of female characters. I think she has the most relatable perspective really. The other IronBorn just all strike me as assholes and idiots.
I'm gonna have to agree on the Ironborn here... although I'm expecting hilarity from Victarion in the future :)I just did a re-read where (for the first time) I read AFFC and ADWD together. There are lots of suggestions on reading order, but I just typed it into google and used one of the first ones.
I've gotta say, I'll never read them apart again. The two of them together were epic!
I think the Mod of the Valar Morghulis forum is doing a reread like that right now called Feastdance, he seems to have a pretty good set up from what I've read of it, but I'm not exactly someone who would know the difference on that account. LOL.I agree though that I would probably find DWD much more enjoyable if it were read with FFC. I think part of the reason I didn't enjoy Dance was the jump back in the timeline. I really like to pay attention to the time certain things happen and whats happening at the same time to certain characters, but DWD just made the whole process far more work than it was before and I didn't find that enjoyable as it was already challenging enough for my brain processes when I'm technically just relaxing. So kinda lost an element for me in that novel outside of the great points Mitali made.
Well, reading them together doesn't help with unfinished-ness. That's not a word. Sorry. You know. At the end of FfC/DwD combo-read, there are: Jamie + Brienne, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Barristan, Sansa, Asha, and Davos who are left with unfinished arcs. I'm not talking cliffhangers, just incomplete arcs. So a combo-read won't help with that, but it definitely contextualizes a lot of what's happening, and will solve most/all chronology problems :)
I didn't like AFFC when I was reading it, but it's because I wanted to know what was happening with the characters I loved and didn't care about the characters in the book. I think now that I've read ADWD and know what's going on with everyone, I would enjoy AFFC a lot more. I want to reread the series so far at some point and a joint reread would be cool for those two books.
AFfC. It was slow in the beginning, but I really enjoyed it. If ADwD, didn't include Victarion, I would have enjoyed it better. I hate the Ironborn.
ADWD was one of my favourite books after ASOS. Maybe I didn't appreciate AFFC as much because there was too much Cersei at her worst and the Iron-born have no class except for the Crow's eye. I did want to give it another chance so I recently re-read it and enjoyed it much more. I look at AFFC and ADWD as all one book since much of what is occurring is happening at the same time.
Yah at first I didn't care for all the Cersei POV in FFC but by the end, I actually really enjoyed it.She's so amazingly insane it's awesome. LOL. AFFC definitely convinced me my favorite POV's and favorite house, is Lannister. They're so beautifully written and horribly flawed for how smart every one of them is.
I am re-reading the series so I am following an online merged book format flipping from one to the other. I hated the time jump and it actually made me so angry and unable to find the heart of the story.
What I like about FFC was Marwyn & J'aquen H'ghar sitting in a room & near 10 years later I still do not know the if they are in league with each other, or in opposition to each other. I like Tyrion's tale of despair, and hope. How Tyrion, when the various forces come together in Slavers Bay, will know at least one key person in each camp.
AFFC is better in my opinion. The Dorne scenes were pretty intense. Ang they caught me off guard....especially the brilliance that is Doran Martell. :))
When a Lannister died by a crossbow bolt I felt alienated. Reading on no longer felt like the four books before, and I stopped.
Reading both together is definitely the way to do it, so much better!
AFFC was my favorite, definitely. I read it in about a week. ADWD drags too much. Even Dany, Tyrion, and Jon became tedious for much of it.Mitali put it best!
I love them both equally. Both books are the best instalments of the series so far.
For me personally I enjoyed ADWD's most because I really like Jon, Tyrion, Davos, and Bran's POVs. I was more excited to see what would happen next near the Wall and with Tyrion than anything that took place with AFFC. To me it was great having less POV characters and focusing on many of my favorites along with Dany and Quentyn Martell's chapters.
The only thing I didn't like in these books were quite a few of Brienne's POVs and some of Sam's. Brienne and Sam are absolutely support characters to me and a story that depended on the two of them for high number of POVs didn't live up to my expectations. Plus I find I only like Brienne when she's fighting. Otherwise she's rather dull to me.