City of Lost Souls (The Mortal Instruments, #5) City of Lost Souls discussion


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How could you like Sebastian?

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

People who like Sebastian sicken me. They truly sicken me. This is a guy who kills heartlessly and tried to practice incest, or have you guys all forgotten the way he put his hands on Clary. WIth Jace and Clary it was different. They fell in love before they knew they were brother and sister. Sebastian knew who Clary was even while he made out with her at the Wayland Manor in City of Glass, and when he tried to kiss her in City of Lost Souls. If she hadn't struck him, he would've gone farther. He killed Max and he thought he'd killed Isabelle as well. I don't understand why everyone likes him so much. Sure he's witty, but he's also willing to bring an end to you and I (inhabitants of the mundane world)!


message 2: by Christina (last edited Aug 28, 2013 11:06AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Christina I wouldn't say that I like Sebastian, but I don't necessarily dislike him either; I think that I pity him more than anything. He was taught to be everything that he is, Valentine his father figure, the man whom he looked to for guidance. I suppose that his upbringing really reins in my sympathy.

So I don't like what he has done. I try to understand what has made him into such a demon, which softens my heart a bit.


Addee How could you not like Seb?


Kristina I love to hate him.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

Smeghead wrote: "How could you not like Seb?"

Um...because he's evil... :)


Taryn Smeghead wrote: "How could you not like Seb?"

GOD Sebastian is just HOOOTTT!


Christina Taryn wrote: "Smeghead wrote: "How could you not like Seb?"

GOD Sebastian is just HOOOTTT!"


Wait. Is this your reason (assuming that you like Seb)? LMAO. I mean, the guy's hot, but I've never given him any points for that.


Taryn Christina wrote: "Taryn wrote: "Smeghead wrote: "How could you not like Seb?"

GOD Sebastian is just HOOOTTT!"

Wait. Is this your reason (assuming that you like Seb)? LMAO. I mean, the guy's hot, but I've never ..."


I just don't want to re-write EVERYTHING that I've already said about him. Honestly, just go to all those other posts about Sebastian. You'll probably find me there.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Taryn wrote: "Christina wrote: "Taryn wrote: "Smeghead wrote: "How could you not like Seb?"

GOD Sebastian is just HOOOTTT!"

Wait. Is this your reason (assuming that you like Seb)? LMAO. I mean, the guy's ho..."


He's certainly not ugly, but is that a reason to confuse good and evil. If Cassandra makes him good in City of Heavenly Fire, I will personally BURN my copy. I don't hate him, but after all the things he's done, him becoming good is certainly not formidable.


Ashley I love him


 ■©atherine■ FourteenRedRoses wrote: "I personally love Sebastian as a character. He is an incredibly well written villain, heartless and just pure evil. I do have a habit of liking the villains in novels and films but that is just bec..."

I totally agree with all you said. I find evil characters much more interesting too.

When I said I like Seabstian, it's definitely not because he's HOT. I found his character complicated and we don't really know how he actually feels, what he was thinking when he's with Jace and Clary yet. Besides, I don't think Sebastian will suddenly become a good guy who wants to save the world. It would makes no sense after everything he had done and I don't want that. May be he will die or something (I also don't want that) because that's the way it should be.


message 12: by Asiyah (last edited Aug 31, 2013 06:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Asiyah THANK YOU! My Gosh! I mean

description

HE'S SEBASTIAN!!! Not a fluffy puppy!....


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Asiyah wrote: "THANK YOU! My Gosh! I mean



HE'S SEBASTIAN!!! Not a fluffy puppy!...."


I KNOW RIGHT! People are like "Sebastian is adorable, I love him so much!" and I'm like....

He very well would kill you if you met you. To them, he's some troubled teddy bear. All I see is a psychopath-->sociopath at best!


message 14: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn FourteenRedRoses wrote: "I personally love Sebastian as a character. He is an incredibly well written villain, heartless and just pure evil. I do have a habit of liking the villains in novels and films but that is just bec..."

Yeah... evil characters are just so interesting. You never really know them... they're generally mysterious. You get fed pieces of their lives at different moments, so you can't help but find them intriguing.


Asiyah Scarlett Ebony wrote: "Asiyah wrote: "THANK YOU! My Gosh! I mean



HE'S SEBASTIAN!!! Not a fluffy puppy!...."

I KNOW RIGHT! People are like "Sebastian is adorable, I love him so much!" and I'm like....

He very well wo..."


Yes! Now WILL could possibly be compared to a troubled teddy bear lol but SEBASTIAN?!? COME. ON. PEOPLE. He has killed, showed no remorse over it and honestly the only thing that can get me to like an evil person is if they end up showing some sort of buried feeling or something remotely human. Last time I checked, the only feeling Sebastian has shown is psychopathic obsession with Clary and Jace....


message 16: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Asiyah wrote: "Scarlett Ebony wrote: "Asiyah wrote: "THANK YOU! My Gosh! I mean



HE'S SEBASTIAN!!! Not a fluffy puppy!...."

I KNOW RIGHT! People are like "Sebastian is adorable, I love him so much!" and I'm l..."


So far...


Olivia Scarlett Ebony wrote: "People who like Sebastian sicken me. They truly sicken me. This is a guy who kills heartlessly and tried to practice incest, or have you guys all forgotten the way he put his hands on Clary. WIth J..."

Gosh, how interesting that I like Sebastian sickens you. It musn't take much.

I agree with FourteenRedRoses in that the "evil" character is always so much more interesting and I might add, on many levels more relatable.

It is a scientific fact that for the natural revulsion you should feel about being in love with or physical with your siblings develops through contact. Sebastian and Clary were not raised together and therefore all there is to generate such revulsion is societal standards. As Sebastian said to Clary, things are different for Shadowhunters and it wasn't an uncommon thing throughout history for siblings to marry to keep a bloodline strong. Don't get me wrong -it is not something that I condone but it's not as simplistic as you make it out to be, or want it to be.

Furthermore, Clary is horrible. She is annoying, boring, ignorant, stubborn to the point of dangerous to herself and others, selfish and careless. I really can't find many redeeming features in her. Jace it vain, arrogant, tetchy, superior and pompous. Neither does he have many redeeming features, except perhaps his wit and sarcasm, to redeem him. Sebastian, on the other-hand is partially demon and was raised to be all evil, he hasn't had any good influences as Jocelyn abandoned him - she is the worst of them all -worse than Valentine in my opinion for not feeling love for her child. The angel blood in Clary is also alien and there is much evidence that angel's aren't exactly the nicest creatures around...

Sebastian keeps things interesting and is the only reason I'll continue to read the series. Fingers crossed Clary gets the slap she deserves in the next book.


message 18: by Nurlely (last edited Sep 03, 2013 01:30AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nurlely Scarlett Ebony wrote: "People who like Sebastian sicken me. They truly sicken me. This is a guy who kills heartlessly and tried to practice incest, or have you guys all forgotten the way he put his hands on Clary. WIth J..."

I think some girls like bad boys more. I like bad boys too, but not evil boys. More of Damon's bad boy. Sebastian is evil but is also freaking handsome. He is loved because beautiful face is a weakness to some people. This applies girls and boys.

As a character, I don't think Sebastian is an awesome villain. His character is rather bland. Except the conversation he made with Clary, he showed no more emotion but a pure evil boy who wants to annihilate all he considers lower than his being. Valentine was a much better villain than Seb. Too bad Cassie killed him soon enough. I suppose an old villain is less tempting or attractive than a young one.

Sebastian born as evil was never his fault. That excuse died long time ago. Jace and Seb were both raised and trained by Valentine, with no mercy or love. While Jace grew up a sarcastic boy who was rather rude to others, Seb grew up to be worse than what Valentine wanted him to be. Valentine wanted to create powerful shadowhunters and be the best among others. Seb wanted to kill all and live with his evil-shadowhunter slaves.

But every story needs a character who can complicate the story. Sebastian is needed to balance the angel power in Jace. Even from the beginning, Seb was there to balance Jace. Evil blood versus angel blood.

What will happen next? No idea. Jace has resurrected twice. Seb once. Maybe Seb will die again and live as a good shadowhunter, forgiven by all.... LOL


Asiyah Taryn wrote: "Asiyah wrote: "Scarlett Ebony wrote: "Asiyah wrote: "THANK YOU! My Gosh! I mean



HE'S SEBASTIAN!!! Not a fluffy puppy!...."

I KNOW RIGHT! People are like "Sebastian is adorable, I love him so m..."


hmmm...what does THAT mean lol....now you got me thinkin


message 20: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Olivia wrote: "Scarlett Ebony wrote: "People who like Sebastian sicken me. They truly sicken me. This is a guy who kills heartlessly and tried to practice incest, or have you guys all forgotten the way he put hi..."

I agree with everything you just said. Sebastian is just so interesting, and no matter what you guys say, Sebastian kissing Clary isn't all that bad. Because it's true, Clary and Sebastian never grew up together, so they don't see each other as brother and sister. Also, Sebastian thinks that Clary will be the only one to love him for who he really is. Is he delusional? Maybe, but you people can't just say that Sebastian is a creep for liking Clary.


Monsieur Paradox 智 I didn't like Sebastian in particular, but sociopathic or psychopathic characters can be quite compelling if introduced, portrayed, and described correctly. If not, they end up as cliché and "obviously evil" villains who often detract from the plot and overall quality of the novel.




Hannah most people have nailed it! its not that we love him its that we know his back story and pity him. He was an innocent child forced into a deamon by his own father. He was taught only evil and its all he knows, not that he would be able to comprhend anything else but he has no friends, noone to love him, no allies. He tried to force himself onto his own sister yes, but he also wants to rule the world with her because they share the same blood that one action contains emotion he beleives he does not have, so for us he has depth to him and is extreamly interesting. Its not that we agree with what he does its that we understand why he does the things he does and we pitty him because of this.


Stephanie Nicole Hannah wrote: "most people have nailed it! its not that we love him its that we know his back story and pity him. He was an innocent child forced into a deamon by his own father. He was taught only evil and its a..."

YES I COMPLETELY AGREE I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF


Maddie Hannah wrote: "most people have nailed it! its not that we love him its that we know his back story and pity him. He was an innocent child forced into a deamon by his own father. He was taught only evil and its a..."

Although I COMPLETELY agree with you on this, Hannah I think that there is a difference between pitying someone and liking their character. Where I do feel bad for Sebastian and can kind of understand where he is coming from, I don't like his character one bit. He is too forceful and ruthless. And yes, you could say that comes from the demonic parts of his soul that aren't his fault, but you could also look at it like this: While he can't necessarily control how the demonic part of his soul takes over the rest of him, all the bad part of him will really do is ENHANCE or HIGHLIGHT the already bad parts of him. So while if Sebastian wasn't part demon he might not have done so many disturbing and dark things, he would still have similar thoughts and ideas running through his mind. You have to think of his actions as the symptoms of the evil inside him. and that the evil in him might not be the CAUSE of the actions, but what is propelling those ideas to turn themselves into actions.
He may not be all bad underneath, but his bad ideas and thoughts definitely came from somewhere.
so yes, i do pity him
but no, i don't like him


message 25: by Kyren (last edited Sep 07, 2013 02:33PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kyren I HATE Sebastian! Emphasis on the word HATE! He is so horrible. He wants Clary to be his "girlfriend" and she's his sister. That is just wrong in so many ways!


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

I just like him as a character. like, I don't like him but he is like a good villan, like he does it correctly, if u know what I mean


Natalie I think people are forgetting that he didn't just kiss Clary, he tried to force himself on her. That's despicable for anyone, let alone a brother/sister. Also, I'd like to point out that there IS no good side to him. People like to think of him as a tragic, misunderstood villian; or that his behavior is a just product of his raising. That's only a part of it. His evil nature is literally in his blood; he's a sociopath who imitates emotions. Those moments where he was sweet to Clary were all an act to get her trust. I wish people would stop romantisizing him. While he is a great villian and an interesting character, he's not some misunderstood bad guy. He has no capability for good.


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

seb is like the perfect villain. hes part DEMON!


SHINY I personally HATE Sebastian, sure, he's a great villain but honestly he's really messed up in the head. like... *SPOILERS FOR CITY OF LOST SOULS* (view spoiler)


message 30: by Sam (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sam I like Sebastian. BUT I don't want him to be with Clary. Ew. Yeah, I know he killed Max and all he did, but... I think all he've been doing it's because he loves(d) Valentine and he knew that those things were what he wanted him to do. Sebastian is not mean. Have you seen the pictures Cassie upload in her tumblr? Are about Sebastian's childhood. He wanted to be with his mom. He wanted to meet his sister. He does the wrong things cause that's the only way he knows how to react.
He's pretty vulnerable even when he's so strong. That's why I like him.


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

Natalie wrote: "I think people are forgetting that he didn't just kiss Clary, he tried to force himself on her. That's despicable for anyone, let alone a brother/sister. Also, I'd like to point out that there IS n..."

Yup! Yup! Yup! Unfortunately, because of the amount of love he has, cassie is considering NOT killing him and killing someone else! :( She better leave Clace and Sizzy alone! She can have Malec or Jaia? ...


Zhanaestilinski Fictional men that I have found myself attracted to...
Loki, Moriarty,Cameron,Rixon,Caine, Luke, Draco, The Witch King of Angmar, Sebastian...I am not a terrible a judge of character...I just happen to have questionable tastes and like men that turn out to be the antagonist. It's the author's fault for writing them that way--not mine.


Nurlely Keshena wrote: "I'm really surprised that there are so many Sebastian fans. He has no human empathy, to the point that he killed a 10 year old boy. He's also kinda one-dimensional."

Yep. And without remorse. Cold blooded murderer.
He would have killed Isabelle too, if he didn't have to go destroying the city.


hannah akers Christina wrote: "I wouldn't say that I like Sebastian, but I don't necessarily dislike him either; I think that I pity him more than anything. He was taught to be everything that he is, Valentine his father figure..."

Thank you for providing a perfect explanation of how I feel about Sebastian. Though I am more inclined to disliking him than liking him.


message 35: by Jack (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jack can we also talk about the fact that he has demon blood running in his veins or


hannah akers Jack wrote: "can we also talk about the fact that he has demon blood running in his veins or"

I blame Valentine for that. And for all of Sebastian's bad behavior.

If he had grown up in the right environment (Like with Clary and Jocelyn and if he didn't have the demon blood), he probably wouldn't have ended up the way he had.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

I like Sebastian.

I'm Team Jebastian because I'm think Jace and Sebastian could totally go together. Demon blood and angel blood!

Someone should write a fan fiction about Jebastian


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)






































message 39: by Ruth (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ruth Shaw Sebastian. My favorite and sexy evil..


message 40: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Sam wrote: "I like Sebastian. BUT I don't want him to be with Clary. Ew. Yeah, I know he killed Max and all he did, but... I think all he've been doing it's because he loves(d) Valentine and he knew that those..."

Yeah... poor Sebastian!!! :(


message 41: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Zhanaestilinski wrote: "Fictional men that I have found myself attracted to...
Loki, Moriarty,Cameron,Rixon,Caine, Luke, Draco, The Witch King of Angmar, Sebastian...I am not a terrible a judge of character...I just happe..."


LOL!!! I'm like that too!!!!


message 42: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Hannah wrote: "Jack wrote: "can we also talk about the fact that he has demon blood running in his veins or"

I blame Valentine for that. And for all of Sebastian's bad behavior.

If he had grown up in the right..."


thats what i think too


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

yes!^^^ its not Sebastian's fault, its Valentine's fault. if he didn't make Sebastian half demon, Sebastian would be normal


message 44: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Sam wrote: "yes!^^^ its not Sebastian's fault, its Valentine's fault. if he didn't make Sebastian half demon, Sebastian would be normal"

YESS!!! EXACTLY!!!


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

Jebastian forever. I am not gonna let this perfect idea slip away. Someone please write a fan fic about it!! Any ideas for how the story should unfold?


Chantelle Sebastian and Clary. HIHIH i ship.


message 47: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Oliviawantsjace wrote: "Jebastian forever. I am not gonna let this perfect idea slip away. Someone please write a fan fic about it!! Any ideas for how the story should unfold?"

Lol... I doubt that's gonna happen but oh well. That's what fantasies are for anyway right?


Autumn Mcfadden i liked him before we found out who he really was


message 49: by Taryn (new) - rated it 1 star

Taryn Autumn wrote: "i liked him before we found out who he really was"

Me too. And now that we know who he is, I STILL like him


Nicole i dont like sebastian but he is like the king of sexy villains


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