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Convince Me > Convince Me: Trickle Down Economics

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message 1: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (last edited May 20, 2009 07:59PM) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Does it have any merit?


message 2: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) | 10 comments i belive in it somewhat, not 100% but i guess i shall try and convinxce you it is worth it.


the point of trickle down economics, is so that the rich can have more money so they can create buisnesses and such so that the middle class and poor can get more jobs, its more of a long term thing, it takes a while to set in, but in the long run it works pretty well compared to the opisite where the rich pay more a nd the middle class pay less, which is much more short term, but then the middle class will be living better- but wont have enough $ to support the economy and make it grow, as trickle down would.


message 3: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
"is so that the rich can have more money so they can create businesses and such so that the middle class and poor can get more jobs"

When has that ever worked? It seems so flawed to me. The rich have enough money already. And they don't create jobs with their personal money. So wouldn't it make more sense to give money to the poor and the middle class so that they can spend money at the rich peoples businesses and it can help everyone out?

"its more of a long term thing"

Isn't economics always about the short term? And radical liberalization of the economy (the New Deal) the greatest thing that ever happened to the American economy? I mean, we had 60 years of unbridled growth because of liberal, bottom up prosperity economics.

"t takes a while to set in, but in the long run it works pretty well compared to the opposite where the rich pay more a nd the middle class pay less"

Uhhh. What do you base that off of? Because all major economic laws, and history as well, prove you wrong.

"which is much more short term, but then the middle class will be living better- but wont have enough $ to support the economy and make it grow,"

Do you think the government is going to take ALL the riches money? It promotes spending because it helps those who can't, have wealth. Bottom up prosperity is better for growth, period, because it helps everyone grow. Since the rich have to supplement their income, they make even more when being taxed heavily.


Still not even slightly convinced, maybe have some facts, instead of just generalities?





message 4: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
I was hoping to get a better argument from SOMEONE haha


message 5: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) | 10 comments you are way to self confident and ignorant and arrogent for your own good.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Yeah. It'll come back to bite you someday. You can prove your point without being a jerk.


message 7: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Jordan, Et ipsa scientia potestas est. wrote: "Yeah. It'll come back to bite you someday. You can prove your point without being a jerk."

How was I being a jerk?

Sarah jean wrote: "you are way to self confident and ignorant and arrogent for your own good."

It's spelled arrogant. Also, how am I any of those things? Sorry I know what I'm talking about.




message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Because it's the way that you speak o people that is so condescending and rude. Such as pointing out a spelling error that could've just as easily been ignored.


message 9: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Jordan, Et ipsa scientia potestas est. wrote: "Because it's the way that you speak o people that is so condescending and rude. Such as pointing out a spelling error that could've just as easily been ignored."

I hate poor spelling, sorry dude. I'm not condescending whatsoever, I'm just brash. I tell it like it is.



message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

You hate anything that doesn't fit in with what you believe in. And you are very condescending. Lauren can tear anyone apart without being a jerk to them as well, why can't you?


message 11: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
That isn't true at all. I hate anything that discriminates towards other or harms America, Americans citizens or American society. Trickle-Down Economics might as well be called homegrown terrorism to me.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Then by your own arguments, you should hate yourself. Because you discriminate against all conservatives that disagree with you all the time.


message 13: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/4...

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/4...

Maybe if you read those your mind will open a little bit.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

I understand and agree with a lot of your arguments. But I still sit with my last post.


message 15: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Jordan, Et ipsa scientia potestas est. wrote: "Then by your own arguments, you should hate yourself. Because you discriminate against all conservatives that disagree with you all the time."

No, I don't discriminate against them personally. I discriminate against their IDEAS. They're IDEAS are harmful. They hurt the country I love with all my heart and soul. This country defines who I am. Why, oh why, should I allow people to hurt the land I love? This country that has given my family so much, given millions of people hope, that inspires the world. Why should I allow it to be attacked from the inside?


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

But you're not stopping anything by being rude about it. In fact, all that you're doing is turning people away from your cause.


message 17: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Jordan, Et ipsa scientia potestas est. wrote: "But you're not stopping anything by being rude about it. In fact, all that you're doing is turning people away from your cause."

I'm not rude. I tell it like it is. I am not going to sugarcoat the message of truth.


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

Davis, until you realize the fact that you're "telling it like it is", is that same as being a condescending jerk, you will not accomplish anything. How many more people do you need to tell it to you before you get it? you say you hate being close-minded, but you are so arrogant and close-minded youself, that you refuse to look at the possibiltity that we might be right. Ever heard of Oedipus The King? He killed his father and married his mother, and his city was punished by the gods because of it. He led the investigation to find the killer, but wouldn't even consider the idea that it might hae been him. and he was exiled as a result of his arrogance.


message 19: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
No, I've never heard of Oedipus.


Dude, I read Freud in the 5th grade. Get real. It really doesn't matter that you think I'm a jerk my friend. It doesn't really matter if anyone on here thinks I'm a jerk. This isn't real. It's the god damn internet. Why should I show any respect to a person who is a member of group that hurts America on a daily basis?


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Because it's common courtesy! They are willing to be respectful to you, why can't you do it too? And just because you read Freud in the 5th grade doesn't mean anything. At all.


message 21: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Jordan, Et ipsa scientia potestas est. wrote: "Because it's common courtesy! They are willing to be respectful to you, why can't you do it too? And just because you read Freud in the 5th grade doesn't mean anything. At all."

I'm not saying it does, I'm just saying that was bit of pretentious and not that fitting analogy.

However, I don't really give a shit about common courtesy, that is true. If I met Osama Bin Laden, I would not be courteous to him whatsoever. Why would I be nice to someone who I believe to have a similar effect on my homeland?




message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

So you're telling me, that you think that Jayda, for example, has done something equivelant to hijacking planes and crashing them into the world trade center?


message 23: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Not Jayda herself, sir. Her ideology has forced many tragedies. Homelessness, poverty, torture, death (there have been people put to death who later turned out to be innocent in American prisons), scorching of the environment, government corruption (Teapot Dome Scandal, Watergate, 2000 Election), the list goes on and on. The only reason Osama is believed as more of an enemy is that the damage was done at once, it was more tangible. These sort of incidents are scattered, or not viewed upon by a majority of the public. Yet, they all happen, and they are all terrible.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

You clearly will not be swayed. Let me reword my Oedipus analogy: Oedipus the King brought about his own destruction because he was to arrogant to change his ways and to look at himself as a someone who might be wrong. THAT, is what I am tring to make you understand, and THAT is what I want you to think about. And, even if this is the internet, they are still real people. Whatever they believe, they should still be treated as good people, because I'm sure they are.


message 25: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Davis you never read about Oedipus? Its hilarious! I know its not meant to be but its just so tragically funny :P


message 26: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "Davis you never read about Oedipus? Its hilarious! I know its not meant to be but its just so tragically funny :P"

No, I was saying I DID read it. Freud Oedipus complex is based off it, so of course I read it.

I understood your analogy, I just thought it was stupid. I can obviously see myself being overbearing and it does get away from me. I'm sorry I love my country so much that it makes my blood boil. I apologize for being a patriot and attacking those who I think are sucking the lifeblood out of us :)


message 27: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) "I'm sorry I love my country so much that it makes my blood boil"

You understand why get VERY angry at some people then :P lol


message 28: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Well, in an awkward sort of way. I just seeing conservatism as slowly eroding away the ideals this country was built upon.


message 29: by Kyle (last edited May 30, 2009 09:41PM) (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) I can see the appeal of liberalism and conservatism. I don't really know WHAT I am. I lean more to the right but thats just because of my dad and being around the military all my life and the military is a big conservative thing so it just influenced.

Whereas on issues like gay marriage and abortion I have to go with liberals. Course abortion I don't think should be taken lightly. Just because, and I realize I'm in a minority in thinking this way, but if I got a girl pregnant I, as the father would like to have a say on whether my baby lived or died.

I know its her body but I wish I would have say, though it be selfish of me. I would take the child afterward and all. I don't know I just wish there was a way to work that, if that scenario ever came up.

Socialized healthcare....hm..I'm iffy on that too. I like my military service idea but then people brought what about people with disabilities..but there would of course be exemptions. I just like the idea of giving back to the country besides JUST taxes in order to receive healthcare. PLUS, TRICARE is already a socialized healthcare anyways, isn't it?

Foreign Policy, I like Teddy's Big Stick mentality you talked about in your second essay, told you I read it. Though with certain countries (i.e. Iran) I just want to blow them sky high. Any other countries, diplomacy can go at it. I mean we have the best threat in the world, what country is gonna want to try and call that bluff right?

I'm like a Consiberal. :P


message 30: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
"I'm like a Consiberal. :P"

That is called being a moderate.

"Foreign Policy, I like Teddy's Big Stick mentality you talked about in your second essay, told you I read it. Though with certain countries (i.e. Iran) I just want to blow them sky high. Any other countries, diplomacy can go at it. I mean we have the best threat in the world, what country is gonna want to try and call that bluff right?"

That is when we need diplomacy more than ever man.


message 31: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Except with Iran..can't we just blow them up? I mean seriously! Or at least that TINY little area of pakistan where all those terrorist are?

please..? lol


message 32: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
"Except with Iran..can't we just blow them up? I mean seriously! Or at least that TINY little area of pakistan where all those terrorist are?

please..? lol"

Nope. Innocent people live in all those areas. That's like saying lets blow up Arkansas because that's where the KKK is located.


message 33: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) but but...the spot in Pakistan is like "." that big...and Bin laden is like right there...

Can we invade it at least? Speaking of which why haven't we invaded that area?


message 34: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Because of Bush. HE IS FRIENDS WITH THE BIN LADEN FAMILY DUDE!!!!!!!!!


message 35: by Kyle (last edited May 30, 2009 11:02PM) (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Seriously? Since when? -_- so confused


message 36: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "Seriously? Since when? -_- so confused"

Dude you didn't know this? Hahaha. Really? After 9/11 happened, Bush PERSONALLY made sure all Bin Ladens in the US were safely flown out, Bin Ladens dad has been at the White House numerous times with Bush Sr.


message 37: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Well thats the Bin Ladens in the states. Wouldn't it have been discrimination to just assume that the rest of his family was in on it?




message 38: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "Well thats the Bin Ladens in the states. Wouldn't it have been discrimination to just assume that the rest of his family was in on it?

"


I think your missing the point here my friend. THE BUSH FAMILY IS FRIENDS WITH THE FAMILY OF THE PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1! Bush continually told the public how awful Osama, Pakistan, Iraq, and Saddam were. And he has connections to Osama's family? And protected Osamas family after the attacks? Seems a bit shady to me man.



message 39: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) At least he didn't just treat them like crap. Hey you just admitted Osama is public enemy number 1 ;) Instead of Limbaugh or O'Reilly. lol :P


message 40: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
I said Bush told us he was.


message 41: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Yes he said how awful ONE of the Osama's was. That doesn't mean the whole family. I mean they probably are involved but still.

Again at least he didn't torture or do anything along those lines.


message 42: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "Yes he said how awful ONE of the Osama's was. That doesn't mean the whole family. I mean they probably are involved but still.

Again at least he didn't torture or do anything along those lines."


Um. Bush ORDERED THE TORTURE THAT TOOK PLACE AT GITMO DUDE!

"I mean they probably are involved but still."

So. If they were involved, shouldn't they have at least been question before being flown out the country immediately?


message 43: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) I was referring of the Osama's not the GITMO people :P

I guess. But it doesn't seem like they were involved or maybe there just good at lying low :P




message 44: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "I was referring of the Osama's not the GITMO people :P

I guess. But it doesn't seem like they were involved or maybe there just good at lying low :P

"


Hahaha, well since I think 9/11 is a huge conspiracy, maybe we best not have this talk.



message 45: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) lol, I think Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy but then again everyone does :P

I don't think there can be an attack on American soil without SOMEONE letting it happen :P


message 46: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

Watch this. I'll be back in about an hour and a half.


message 47: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "lol, I think Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy but then again everyone does :P

I don't think there can be an attack on American soil without SOMEONE letting it happen :P
"

Yeah, because it was really worth it when we lost almost the entire fleet in the pacific.


message 48: by Kyle (last edited May 31, 2009 01:00PM) (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Did you know America intercepted the order from Japan to their fleet to attack? or they intercepted something I'm not sure what. :P

And if we hadn't of let them attack if the government just would've taken care of it we wouldn't have entered WWII which saved our countries economy and made us a superpower.

You've never heard the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories?


message 49: by Davis, Staunchly Liberal (someone has to be) (new)

Davis (davismattek) | 401 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "Did you know America intercepted the order from Japan to their fleet to attack? or they intercepted something I'm not sure what. :P

And if we hadn't of let them attack if the government just would..."


Yeah, it's pretty well known. In fact that movie I linked you too mentions it. We wanted to get involved in WW2 and we needed a reason. Even my history teacher believes that.


message 50: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) As does mine :P

Ugh I got to go to work. I'll be on later but it will be like 10:30 - 11:00. Its Sunday so we don't close till 10 and then I have to clean the damn place :(

Oh well its decent money. Talk to you all later :P


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