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Doctor Zhivago
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Group Reads Archive - 2013 > Doctor Zhivago-Resources-Translation-Reading Schedule

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message 1: by Silver (new) - added it

Silver Here you may post any information and additional resource material you think will be interesting and helpful to the discussion of the book. Also you may discuss differences in translations within this thread.

Just be aware of any spoilers, and post warnings where appropriate.

Reading Schedule

Part 1 - Sept. 1-15
Part 2 Sept 16-30


message 2: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Here's an interesting article about Dr Zhivago translations:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010...


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Amalie wrote: "Here's an interesting article about Dr Zhivago translations:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010..."


Interesting! Mine is also 1958 edition translated by Max Hayward and Manya Harari.


message 4: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments I read about 90 pages of the new Pevear translation and had to start it twice because I couldn't make sense of much of it. Then I decided to give it up and try the Hayward which I plan to start this week. There is something about Pevear and V that I find impenetrable. I also tried to read their Anna Karenina
and I also found it too dense to follow. Hopefully the
Hayward will flow better.


message 5: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Alans wrote: "here is something about Pevear and V that I find impenetrable. I also tried to read their Anna Karenina and I also found it too dense to follow. Hopefully the Hayward will flow better..."

I haven't read P/V translation of Anna K. I read the Garnett translation and the authorial voice was lost in hers so I I always thought P/V might be better. For some novels Garnett is the best, for some P/V, it's something like that.

Hayward and Harari is more known for Doctor Zhivago than Pevear and Volokhonsky. Personally I think P/V got more famous after the "Oprah's Bookclub" seal on it LOL.


message 6: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments Amalie have you started the book? Just based on my reading of the Pevear there are many characters and in typical Russian lit fashion it is really hard to distinguish who they are because their names or titles keep changing. I'm going to see if the Hayward is clearer on this.I've heard the book is one of the most difficult Russian novels to translate because of the density of the prose, so maybe it doesn't work well in any translation. It would be interesting to hear what other think of the translation they are reading.


message 7: by Blumenfeld (new)

Blumenfeld (Die_Libelle) | 19 comments I've just started, sorry for that. But I'm going to catch up with all of you.

I can hardly memorise numerous names and I speak Russian fluently...Although it's nice to know I'm not the only one troubled by it.


message 8: by Mary (new) - added it

Mary | 26 comments I thought it was just me. I had started the P&V translation a few months back and had a tough time following. I'll look for the Hayward translation otherwise I'll read P&V again. The group discussions always help clear up some things too that I miss.


message 9: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Alans wrote: "Amalie have you started the book? Just based on my reading of the Pevear there are many characters and in typical Russian lit fashion it is really hard to distinguish who they are because their nam..."

No, that's the reason I still haven't finished reading this. From what I hear, Hayward is the one to stay with.

I found this online. Here's an idea:

Manya Harari and Max Hayward translation:

‘Larisa Feodorovna had realized how unhappy he felt and had no wish to upset him with painful scenes. She tried to hear him out as calmly as she could. They were talking in one of the empty front rooms. Tears were running down her cheeks, but she was no more aware of them than the stone statues on the house across the road were of the rain running down their faces. She kept saying softly: “Do as you think best, don’t worry about me. I’ll get over it.”

Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky translation:

"Larissa Fyodorovna had not wanted to upset Yuri Andreevich with painful scenes. She understood how much he was suffering even without that. She tried to listen to his news as calmly as possible. Their talk took place in the empty room of the former owners, unused by Larissa Fyodorovna, which gave onto the Kupecheskaya. Unfelt, unbeknownst to her, tears flowed down Lara’s cheeks, like the rainwater that now poured down the faces of the stone statues opposite, on the house with figures. Sincerely, without affected magnanimity, she repeated quietly: “Do what’s better for you, don’t think about me. I’ll get over it all.”

I think over translation can be even worse than bad translation.


message 10: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Btw, I hope you guys have figured out that writer of the article in "message 2" - Ann Pasternak Slater IS actually Pasternak’s niece :) Even she's not crazy about P&V translation.


message 11: by Marie (new) - added it

Marie | 43 comments If I remember correct, the front of my book had a cast of characters which was Max Hayward translation.

To everyone facing the problem of character confusions, better to keep a character chart. Some will disappear and will return only in the end.

***********************************************
SPOILER

Marya Nikolayevna - Yury Zhivago's mother

Yury Andreyvich Zhivago/Yura/Yurochka - Dr Zhivago

Nikolay Nikolayevich Vedenyapin/Uncle Kolya - Yury's Uncle (Marya's brother)

Ivan Ivanovich Voskoboynikov - Teacher and writer. Acquaintance of Uncle Kolya.

Pavel - Ivanovich's odd job man.

Nicky Dudorov - Boy two years older than Yury who lived with thw Voskoboynikovs.

Kologrivov - Manager of the estate.

Nadya and Lipa Kolgrivov - Kologrivov's two daughters. Lipa was a pupil of Lara's when she lived with them.

Misha Gordon - Son of lawyer on the train.

Grigory Osipovich Gordon - Laywer on the train on which Zhivago committed suicide.

Tiverzina - Widow travelling on the Gordons train. Mother of two of the engine drivers.

Dementiy Dudorov - Nicky's father and terrorist.

Nadya Kologrivova- School girl and "friend" of Nicky's (15 at beginning of book). Becomes Lara's best friend at girls' high school.

Amalia Karlovna Guishar/Madame Guishar- Mother if Larissa and Rodyon. Widow of a Belgian engineer moved from the urals to Moscow.

Larissa Fyodorovna Guishar/Lara - Daughter of Amalia Guishar and sister of Rodya.

Rodyon Fyodorovna Guishar/ Rodya - Son of Amalia Guishar and brother of Lara.

Komarovsky/Victor Ippolitovich Komarovsky - Lawyer and harsh business man. Lover to Lara. Lawyer to Zhivago.

Tishkevich - Neighbour to the Guishars.

Olya Demina/Comrade Demina - Worker at Madame Guishar's. Friend of Lara's. Lodger at the building where Galiullina lived.

Faina Silantyevana Fetisova - Senior cutter and assistant to Madame Guishar.

Fuflygin - Divisional Manager of the Station district.

Pavel Ferapontovich Antipov - Track Overseer of the Station district.

Tiverzin/Kuprian Savelich/Kuprinka - Train station worker. Strong political views.

Pyotr Khudoleyev - Old foreman of train station

Yusupka - Khudoleyev's apprentice. Son of Gimazetdin.

Gimazetdin - Porter at block of tenenments where Tiverzin lived.

Saveliy Nikitich - Tiverzin's father. Married Marfa who was Khudoleyev's love.

Prov Afanasyevich Sokolov - Church psalmist and relation of Tiverzin's mother.

Darya Antipov - Wife of Pavel Antipov.

Pasha/Pashenka/Pavel Povlovich Antipov/Lieutenabt Antipov - Son of Darya and Pavel. Married to Lara. Went to love with the Tiverzins'.

Sventitskys - Family Nikolay Nikolayevich stayed with when in Moscow.

Gromeko Family - Mother Father and Daughter Tonya.

Tonya/ Antonina Alexandrovich Gromeko/ - Yury's first wife.

Nil Feoktissovich/Vyvolochnov - Nikolayevich's business associate.

Emma Ernestovna - Komarovsky's housekeeper.

Constantine Illarionovich Satanidi - Actor and Gambler. Friend of Komarovsky.

Alexander Alexandrovich Gromeko - Professor of Chemistry. Brother of Nikolay Gromeko. Married to Anna Gromeko. Father of Tonya.

Nikolay Alexandrovich Gromeko - Professor of Chemistry. Brother of Alexander Gromeko.

Anna Ivanovna Gromeko/nee Krueger - Married to Alexander Alexandrovich Gromeko. Mother of Tonya.

Shura Schlesinger - Anna's best friend. Theosophist.

Markel - Handyman to the Gromekos'.

Marinka - Daughter of Markel.

Serafima Kologrivov - Wife of Kologrivov.

Koka Kornakov - Son of an assistant public prosecutor, leading the cotillon at the Christmas Party.

Felitsata Semionovna - Friend of Tonya. Present at the Christmas party.

Dr Drokov - Doctor at the Christmas party who helped take care of Lara after the shooting.

Ruffina Onissimovna Voit-Voitkovsky- Lawyer friend of Komarovsky. Offered a room to Lara where she stayed after the shooting.

Lyudmila Kapitonovna Chepurko - Mother of Tusya a fellow student of Lara's. Made arrangements for Lara and Pasha's wedding.

Katya Antipov- Lara and Pasha's daughter.

Marfutka - The Antipovs' maid.

Friesendank - Married to Lipa Kologrivov.

Galiullin/Yusupka/Osip Gimazetdinovich - Mechanic by trade. Son of Gimazetdin. Garrison Commander in the military. Leader of the White forces.

Karpenko - Yury's housekeeper in the military.

Sasha Zhivago/Sashenka - Yury's first child with his wife Tonya.

Countess Zhabrinskaya - Owner of the house offered to the red cross to be used as a hospital in the war in the district Razdolnoye.

Ustinya - Countess Zhabrinskaya's head cook.

Mademoiselle Fleury -Brought up the countess's two daughters.

Comissar Gintz/Gintze - Military leader.

Kolya Frolenko - Biryuchi telegraphist, Son of a clockmaker.

Maxim Aristarkhovich Klintsov-Pogorevshikh - Passenger on Yury's train when travelling back to Moscow.

Nyusha - Zhivagos' servant.

Wounded Man - Prominent Political Leader helped by Yury in the street.

Aunt Fatima/Galiullina - Caretaker on the house committee. Mother of Galiullin.

Khrapugina - House committee member at the Borough Council meeting

Yevgraf Zhivago- Yury's half brother.

Zevorotina - Neighbour of the Zhivago family while they were living in Moscow.

Voronyuk - Guard of conscripts in Zhivagos' coach on the way to Varykino.

Prokhor Pritulyev - Cashier in government wine shop in Petersburg. Also a passenger on the train. Married to a woman named Luga. Lived with a woman named Pelagia Tyagunova.

Vassya Brykin - Passenger on the train. Apprentice to an ironmonger and 16 at the time.

Kostoyed-Amursky - Revolutionary in the labour co-operative party also a passenger on the train travelling with the gaurd.

Pelagia Tyagunova/Auntie Polya - Accompanied Pritulyev on the journey.

Ogryskova/Aunty Katie/Katie Ogryskova - Also accompanied Pritulyev on the journey. Rival of Tyagunova.

Army Comissar Strelnikov - Pasha who was believed to be dead returned from prison in Germany and was vouched for by Tiverzin. He had all the qualitites that a leader of the time needed and he impressed "those who controlled appointments". Strelnikov was entrusted with new responsibilities and strategic decisions.

Samdevyatov/Anfim Yefimovich - First introduced on the train from Moscow. Solicitor and a bolshevik.

Avercius Mikulitsin - Married Agrippina Tuntsevas. Second wife was called Helen. He is a social revolutionary and is the regional delegate to the Contituent Assembly.

Agrippina, Avdotya, Glaphira (Glasha) and Serephima (Sima) Tuntsevas - Four sisters of Yuryatin.

Liberius Avercievich/Libby/Commrade Forrester - Son of Mikulitsin and Agrippina. Commands the Forest Brotherhood. Partisan Leader.

Ivan Ernestovich Krueger - Grandfather of Tonya Gromeko.

Bacchus Mekhonoshin - Friver who took the Zhivagos't to Varykino to meet the Mikulitsin.

Pvael Ferapontovich Antipov - Pasha's father. Aformer political convict and worker.

Kammenodvorsky - Liberius's Chief Liaison Officer.

Admiral Kolchak - Supreme Commander of the Whites

Galuzina - The grocer's wife from Holycross. Sister of Olya and Polya.

Vlas Galuzin- The grocer from Holycross. Married to Galuzina.

Teryoshka/Terenty Galuzin - Son of Vlas and Galuzina. Expelled from school.

Ksyusha Galuzin - Daughter of Vlas and Galuzina.

Zalkind - Owner of the chemist in Holycross.

Schmulevich - Ladies tailor in Holycross.

Kaminsky - Engraver in the same building of flats.

Zhuk and Strodakh - The two photographers who worked in partnership.

Blazhein - Young assistant of the photographers.

Kerenyi Lajos - A Hungarian doctor. Later worked with Yury.

Lidochka/Commrade Lidochka - Representative of the Central Committee.

Vdovichenko - "Black Banner". Partisan Follower.

Goshka Ryabikh - Friend of Terenty Galuzin.

Colonel Stese - Officer of the selection board.

Koska - Boy from Yermolay. Hid with Goshka and Terenty.

Sanka Pafnutkin - Troublesome military recruit.

*************************************************



message 12: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments Thanks for that huge list of names..it is much longer then the list in the Hayward translation and will come in handy.
I agree, the P&V tends to overtranslate.Too much description of simple things.


message 13: by Jennifer (new)

Jennifer Eremeeva (jennifereremeeva) | 2 comments Delighted to find this very active group who are also enjoying DZ! Look forward to the continued debate and discussion!


message 14: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments Can someone please explain in modern terms what happened between Lara and her mother's friend? Did they just have sex, or is she pregnant?She says she has fallen, I thought she was pregnant, but then six months pass and there is no mention of it again.


message 15: by Blumenfeld (new)

Blumenfeld (Die_Libelle) | 19 comments I've read only 1/4 of the book. Perhaps, I will be the only one who's deeply frustrated and ashamed because I want to give up. I can't follow anything. 'Chronicles' (or are they scenes?) frustrate me because nothing coheres, and Pasternak tells and doesn't show much.

I've read a foreword where Pasternak states it's his decision to 'write everything that comes to mind' and shape it more 'like letters'. I surrender...


message 16: by Jesse (last edited Sep 14, 2013 11:40AM) (new)

Jesse | 4 comments Alans wrote: "She says she has fallen"

I think this refers to him taking her virginity, after which she would be unsuitable for a respectable marriage.


message 17: by Jesse (new)

Jesse | 4 comments Sig wrote: "I've read only 1/4 of the book."

I'm really enjoying this book, but I'm taking it at a much slower pace. I only read about 5-10 pages a day. That way I have time to re-read passages or stop to compare and think about things.

Personally I find the reading schedule for this group too aggressive. I could be be on board to finish Oct 30, but not Sep 30.


message 18: by Blumenfeld (new)

Blumenfeld (Die_Libelle) | 19 comments I'm a slow reader but this one goes quickly for the reason I cannot understand. But I don't think I'm going to finish by the end of the month.


message 19: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments I agree with the two comments above. I stopped reading
the book even though I was happier with the Hayward
translation, but the book just jumps all over the place and I'm never sure who is being discussed or what..it seems to be so random..or else it makes sense to Pasternak not me. I didn't feel I was connecting to the
book and I too was reading five to ten pages a day and
then giving up. I also find the current schedule too
difficult to adhere to. I'm at about page 95..there is
no way I can meet the deadline by the end of the month.


message 20: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Jesse wrote: "Sig wrote: "I've read only 1/4 of the book."

I'm really enjoying this book, but I'm taking it at a much slower pace. I only read about 5-10 pages a day. That way I have time to re-read passages or..."


The schedule is not so restricted. We can alter it according to the readers' need. We will not replace "Heart of a Dog" with this. That will be read separately. Ask what any of you need.


message 21: by Amalie (new)

Amalie  | 650 comments Mod
Silver wrote: "Reading Schedule

Part 1 - Sept. 1-15
Part 2 Sept 16-30 ..."


There seems to be some problems with the current schedule.


message 22: by Lisa (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 37 comments Also struggling time- wise


message 23: by Alan (new)

Alan | 22 comments I think the schedule submitted was from the Pevear
translation because they break the book into two parts. The Hayward has just chapters.


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