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Debate > Affirmative Action

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message 1: by Danyele (last edited Jun 12, 2013 09:53AM) (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments What do you think, necessary and helpful for minorities? Or discriminatory in itself, defeating it's very goal of equality.


message 2: by Taylor (new)

Taylor I'm very much against affirmative action. I am supportive of helping people who are in a situation of poverty. However, just as people consider it discriminatory to give a Caucasian an advantage over another race, I consider it to be the exact same thing to give preference to someone because they have darker skin.

Furthermore, we are helping them in the wrong areas. Currently, affirmative action is helping uneducated people get into college and make their way into the workforce. But I believe it is more important to focus our time and energy on helping them gain an effective education earlier on. That way, when they apply for colleges, they can have the same opportunity as a white person to get into college.

(Side note: This can only be accomplished if we remove questions of race and ethnicity that would inevitably promote racism.)

The problem is, supporters of affirmative action think they are fighting for equal opportunity. This is not so. They are fighting for equality of results, which really hurts people in the end. What happens is you have a whole bunch of people who have not been properly educated entering programs and workplaces that are suited for the educated.


message 3: by Danyele (last edited Jun 12, 2013 11:26AM) (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments With affirmative action when deciding between two equal candidates, the minority should get it to fulfill a 'quota'. I don't agree with this, as this is plainly discrimination. I don't think race, gender etc. should be any deciding factor. And I certainly don't believe in affirmative action involved in the selection of unequal candidates. But it is doing some good, several studies have documented important gains in racial and gender equality as a direct result of affirmative action (Bowen & Bok, 1998; Murrell & Jones, 1996).

I also agree with Taylor's statement, we can't have uneducated people entering areas in which they need to be educated. Which goes back to my point of affirmative action coming in the section processes between qualified and unqualified.

I believe every citizen should have equal opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness despite race, gender, sexual orientation or religion. However this doesn't happen. In an ideal country, we wouldn't need affirmative action but we are fare from an unbiased, accepting world, nevertheless country.

It is essentially discrimination used to fight discrimination. But despite affirmative action being reverse discrimination, it isn't inherently bad. According to a report from the U.S. Labor Department, affirmative action has helped 5 million minority members and 6 million White and minority women move up in the workforce.

Therefore, because of how progressive it has shown itself to be, I am leaning more to the pro-side of this issue. It is unfair, but neither is the world. AA won't truly help the cause of equality in the long run, something has to be done about the mentalities of people to gain true freedom of prejudice and bias, education possibly.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

What exactly is Affirmative Action? Forgive me if I sound stupid to ask.


message 5: by Taylor (new)

Taylor Affirmative action is the name for the collection of laws that require certain organizations such as schools to employ/accept a certain number of individuals from minority groups, regardless of whether or not they are actually more qualified than the white male candidates.


message 6: by Taylor (new)

Taylor Your definition had a crap-ton of bias in it. Just sayin'.


message 7: by Danyele (last edited Jun 16, 2013 07:32AM) (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments It seems like yours does actually. Since hers is an actual definition and yours is what you think it is.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh, thanks for the definition, guys!


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Danyele wrote: "What do you think, necessary and helpful for minorities? Or discriminatory in itself, defeating it's very goal of equality."

I think we should help them out if they are being hurt in any way, shape, or form.


message 10: by Danyele (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments @Tiny Thats what I think :)


message 11: by Taylor (new)

Taylor @Danyele

I will concede, I do have bias in my definition. However, just because hers is an official definition or whatever doesn't mean that it doesn't have spin.


message 12: by Danyele (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments @Taylor

Okay, I will be more than willing to admit their is bias too. But could you point it out for me please?


message 13: by Taylor (new)

Taylor Well, the way that it is phrased almost forces the reader to agree. Phrases such as "inclusion of minority groups" and "counteract historical discrimination" make AA seen like only a good thing, and anyone who opposes it is against the "inclusion of minority groups" and "counteract[ing] historical discrimination."

A more balanced definition would merely indicate that this was the INTENT, and then give a general idea of how it works, which is why I mentioned the quota system.

Oh, and P.S., affirmative action merely discriminates against the majority rather than the minority. Discrimination all the same.


message 14: by Danyele (last edited Jun 16, 2013 11:46AM) (new)

Danyele Johnson | 51 comments While the statements are accurate, I have to agree it is a bit biased. Because for it to be biased it means that it prevents impartial consideration.

American Civil Liberties Union says that affirmative action is one of the most effective tools for redressing the injustices caused by our nation's historic discrimination against people of color and women, and for leveling what has long been an uneven playing field.

I think this is just a factual definition but I guess it's really hard to make a statement that is purely free of any bias *shrugs*

Taylor [Relationship status: In love] wrote: "Oh, and P.S., affirmative action merely discriminates against the majority rather than the minority. Discrimination all the same. "

I stated that very thing in my comment too, I said "it is essentially discrimination used to fight discrimination. But despite affirmative action being reverse discrimination, it isn't inherently bad. According to a report from the U.S. Labor Department, affirmative action has helped 5 million minority members and 6 million White and minority women move up in the workforce."


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