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House of Chains (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #4)
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Group Read - House of Chains > HoC - Chapter Nineteen - NO SPOILERS

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message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (last edited Jun 02, 2013 03:17PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Chapter Nineteen Discussion Thread


message 2: by Lori (last edited Jun 03, 2013 02:34PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori David hurry up! I've finished all of this week's chapters and aside from wonderfully explaining things, your summary will cue me in as to what happened in 19, I'm frantic to discuss! We need your first post you are the official Keeper of the Thread.

I'm chomping at the bit and read a page from next week but thankfully I had some willpower. It's so hard to stop reading SE especially as we gallop to the climactic confluence!


message 3: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Interesting – according to the Epigraph, Grub (Keneb’s adopted orphan from the Chain of Dogs) makes First Sword.

Meanwhile Leoman has been delivering heavy casualties on the Malazans with his hit and run raids.

Tavore responds by sending out the Marines with an ambush of her own using the sappers and their Moranth munitions to punish the desert warriors. Which they do successfully.

I like how Corab handles the threat of his nuts being blown of by sticking a helmet over the sharper between his legs.

Whimpering, Corabb rolled to one side – and came up against a discarded helm. He grabbed it and lunged back at the sharper, slamming the bronze cap over it.
Then he closed his eyes.


I guess that’s the Malazan version of “sticking your head between your knees and kissing your arse goodbye”

Hey – he lived.

I could feel Fiddler and Cuttle’s joy as they watched him and counted down and then their dismay when he survives.

And Leoman is forced to reassess Tavore and sends a message to Sha’ik

Also, that I no longer hold any faith in Korbolo Dom’s strategy for the day of battle, nor his tactics

Korbolo’s strategy involves inviting Tavore to attack at a point of his choosing. Of course, Leoman is not to know that Korbolo intends to betray both sides of the battle.


What about those scorpion fights? Fiddler’s up to his old tricks in setting up a game and rigging the outcome. I want myself a birdshit scorpion.


Lori Joyful Union all the way!


message 5: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Joyful Union all the way!"

It reminds me of the opening(or was it closing) credits of 3000 Miles to Graceland with the two scorpions facing off.


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments He rigged the fight by choosing last, and then by naming his champion with a name that gave away his plan? All he did was understand that the others would make worse choices, and then took advantage of their becoming overconfident in their choices. That's pretty much his MO throughout.


Lori He had a shaved knuckle! I love how smart he is at reading others.


message 8: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
David Sven wrote: "Whimpering, Corabb rolled to one side – and came up against a discarded helm. He grabbed it and lunged back at the sharper, slamming the bronze cap over it.
Then he closed his eyes.

I guess that’s the Malazan version of “sticking your head between your knees and kissing your arse goodbye”

Hey – he lived.

I could feel Fiddler and Cuttle’s joy as they watched him and counted down and then their dismay when he survives."


So isn't this the second time Corab has been crazy lucky? Didn't his horse get shot in a previous chapter but he somehow managed to get back on it and ride away? Oponn popping up again maybe?


message 9: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
I don't get the deal with Joyful Union. How did no one but Fid (and Kennit apparently, or maybe Kennit just knows about Fiddler), know it actually 2. Or was it two?

Is it some magical scorpion that can somehow split in half?

I'm very annoyed that it wasn't explained better.


message 10: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Rob wrote: "I don't get the deal with Joyful Union. How did no one but Fid (and Kennit apparently, or maybe Kennit just knows about Fiddler), know it actually 2. Or was it two?
"


I'd like to know how Kennit got in here from Liveship traders.

I think it is actually two Scorpions but nobody is up on their scorpion biology. Even Fiddler I think gets the idea from Cuttle given the wink wink nod nod between them


message 11: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Rob wrote: "o isn't this the second time Corab has been crazy lucky? Didn't his horse get shot in a previous chapter but he somehow managed to get back on it and ride away? Oponn popping up again maybe? "

His horse didn't get shot but he rolls it and it rolls right over back onto its feet - yes, he is pretty lucky.


message 12: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Damn similar names. Captain Keneb or whatever.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments The mere timing of the raid tells the Malazans that the Whirlwind's leadership is divided. It doesn't seem like it was a good idea for Leoman to disobey orders.

I'm not totally sure I get the whole thing with Gamet, whether it was all natural or whether he might have been under some magical influence. Anyway, it seems to have put him into as cynical a state as any character we've yet seen. I'm wondering whether we could identify stages of brokenness that would apply to both his development and other characters - Duiker for instance.


message 14: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Silvio wrote: "It doesn't seem like it was a good idea for Leoman to disobey orders."

I think Leoman sees the idea of just allowing Tavore to march up unharried is tactically unsound - insane even. He wants to take her measure. He attacks later than he would like to which does give away the division in the rebellion - but I think not attacking would simply reveal that the rebellion is strategically inept - which it kinda is given that it's whole strategy relies on Tavore being inept.
Te attitude seems to be - we don't need to take her measure because we already know she's inexperienced - so lets not give her any training en route. Then when she gets here we'll lay out the red carpet exactly where we want her to attack and she'll fall for it because that's what rookies do.

When Leoman finally gets his ass handing to him he immediately sees a change in tactics back at base is necessary.


message 15: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori I got the impression he was just going to bag the whole thing and run off.

I strongly dislike Leoman.


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments From everyone else's standpoint, not testing Tavore seems crazy. But Felesin already knows Tavore. What she doesn't know is how to command. So she is not going to learn much of anything by going through the tests. The crazy thing is not her strategy here, but having her in command at all.


message 17: by Chaz (last edited Sep 22, 2013 03:26PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Lori (Hellian) wrote: "I strongly dislike Leoman."

Really? I like him very much. He's not a fanatic but is a realist and pragmatist. He's cleverer than folks around him give him credit for and I enjoy his sardonic scepticism a lot. He's one of the only sane ones in the nuthouse that is the Army of the Apocalypse.


Conor | 78 comments This was a really cool chapter. I find Leoman to be a really interesting character and his raids were badass. I'm also interested in how/why his sidekick is able to survive such crappy situations. The Malazan response was cool and I really enjoyed finally getting to see Fiddler, Gesler and the gang kicking ass. Also; Scorpion Battle!!!


DangerBin | 64 comments Great chapter!

Love when Gesler says, “even though I know there’s something about it I’m not seeing and I’m about to lose my life’s savings on the Sergeants’ Wager.”

Corabb is unkillable!


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