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message 1: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Why are we not allowed to pray in school? And I'm not just saying to God either. What is the big deal about setting aside a couple minutes, say, after we say the Pledge of Allegiance, and devoting it to prayer?

You don't even have to pray, just be respectful and silent! I mean, you could pray to yourself, if you think you are your own god. You could pray to Allah, or Jesus, or whoever you believe in! Doesn't have to be God!

Why can't religion be in schools? If you are not forcing your religion on someone else, and they aren't forcing it on you, what's the big deal?

Actually, one of my friends got a warning for talking about religion in class. Specifically she was talking about Christianity. Now, she wasn't preaching to the class or to a group. She was talking with ONE kid.
Now, I suppose other's could listen in. SO WHAT? They can listen or ignore if they want to, just like ignoring the person in front of them who is talking about their weekend!
Anyway, they were just having a friendly conversation. My friend wasn't forcing it on the kid. He was a different religion, or didn't have one, or something. But my friend wasn't preaching or anything, just talking. WE HAVE FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN THIS COUNTRY. So what was the problem? Oh, right. Religion isn't allowed in schools.

Wait a minute. My school had a Christian club, called SALT.

Why do religions in schools have to meet behind closed doors?!

I mean, I can understand if some kid stood up on a lunch table and started preaching the gospel. ANY gospel, any religion, I think that's a bit too far.

But just saying speaking about it to another student? WHY IS THIS NOT ALLOWED?


message 2: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "Why are we not allowed to pray in school? And I'm not just saying to God either. What is the big deal about setting aside a couple minutes, say, after we say the Pledge of Allegiance, and devoting it to prayer? "

Because school is a secular institution, and cannot pick one religion over another, or religion over no religion. Separation of Church and State. And it's a waste of time, when we should be learning. Pray on your own time.

"You could pray to Allah, or Jesus, or whoever you believe in! Doesn't have to be God! "

So, if I start a Satanic ritual, you would be totally cool with it?

"Why can't religion be in schools? If you are not forcing your religion on someone else, and they aren't forcing it on you, what's the big deal? "

Because school is for learning. If you want religion, goto a religous school. Don't invade the public schools.

I would not want my tax dollars paying for students to pray.

"WE HAVE FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN THIS COUNTRY. So what was the problem? Oh, right. Religion isn't allowed in schools. "

She was probably asked to stop, because it was disrupting the class. A would any other topic.

"Why do religions in schools have to meet behind closed doors?! "

EVERY club has to meet after school. Equality isn't persecution.

"But just saying speaking about it to another student? WHY IS THIS NOT ALLOWED? "

Because the teacher is trying to teach, and ANY talking is a distraction.


message 3: by Daisy (new)

Daisy I just want to point this out NOT EVERYONE IS A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! Everyone says you just get used to it and you don't have to say it that's not true it becomes a routine and then it's always part of your life, I don't want to deal with that it's like converting someone to your religion because you feel the need to be a stupid a hole. Not everyone prays either, and not everyone wants to waste valuable class time praying, there are religions that don't pray at all!


message 4: by Daisy (new)

Daisy Lauren wrote: ""Why are we not allowed to pray in school? And I'm not just saying to God either. What is the big deal about setting aside a couple minutes, say, after we say the Pledge of Allegiance, and devoting..."

THANK YOU!


message 5: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) <3

When she said "pray" she really meant "Praying to MY God, in MY religion."

I doubt Pagans would be afforded the same rights.


message 6: by Daisy (new)

Daisy They wouldn't,and i know that because the majority of people in the US are of a Christian religion and alot of them happen to think Wiccans are evil or refuse to accept that other people belive other things


message 7: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) And as soon as they are brought down to equality with everyone else, they see it as persecution.


message 8: by Daisy (new)

Daisy agreed it's kinda anoying


message 9: by Daisy (new)

Daisy and also there are religions that pray at certain time that AREN't after the pledge of allegiance is done, which FYI is only done in my school at monthly assemblies


message 10: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) You have prayer at assemblies?

And yes, Islam requires 5 times a day, plus a bunch of rituals that are impractical and disruptive at school.


message 11: by Daisy (new)

Daisy no, not allowed thank good and evil. Very true. and she said "why not take some time after the pledge of allegiance and devote it to prayer" so I was pointing out that at my school the pledge of allegiance is said once a month



message 12: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Oh, it is? We do it every day, but like, half the school just stays sitting and ignores it. lol


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

I have big opinions on this topic. Okay, now I'll go read everyone's post so I don't end up being redundant.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Okay. I'll just say one thing that answers the big question why there's no prayer in school:
It's against the Constitution to have an established religion. Established meaning, payed for by the government/taxes. And who pays for public schools? Taxes. So putting prayer and religion in schools is making an established religion.


message 15: by Bree, you make me smile (new)

Bree (breej6434) | 835 comments Mod
The reason why they don't have a set aside time for prayer in school is because in conflicts with the Constitution. They aren't suppose to inflict religous things on you at school. That's why you can see prayer time at privet schools, but not public schools. you might question it, but some people aren't religious, and don't pray. what would they do, or how would they feel if everyone around them was praying? So they don't have that. And you can pray during school, when ever you please, it is illeagal for them to ban that right from you at school, but they also can't give you a certain time set aside for praying. Does that make sense to you?


message 16: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) J and Bella have it.


message 17: by Daisy (new)

Daisy EXACTLY!


message 18: by Jordyn (new)

Jordyn (bookishadventures) | 42 comments Well, also you can pray on your own time. For Islam people I guess you could always pray in the bathroom. Not that that is very sanitary but it would do. There is always a way to beat-around-the-bush. And having a religion is not bad, not pointing out that people get shot for mentioning their religion in the wrong part of town, or mentioning it at certain summits.
~Sessy


message 19: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) You just can't take class time to do it.


message 20: by Jordyn (new)

Jordyn (bookishadventures) | 42 comments That's why you'd excuse yourself to the bathroom or I agree to just apply for a religious school. But for the religious school, I believe that you'd be taking that child out of a great experience that is hard to come across, you can only go through elementary school once. You can only go through middle school once. And you can only go through high school once. If a child grows up in a private school, they will be taken away from multi-religious opportunities. And multi-cultural environment.
~Sessy


message 21: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Yes.


message 22: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: ""She was probably asked to stop, because it was disrupting the class. A would any other topic. "


No, she was not disrupting the class, it was free time or something. She is a good student, and wouldn't purposefully try to be disrespectful.


message 23: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: "Because the teacher is trying to teach, and ANY talking is a distraction. "


The teacher wasn't trying to teach at that time. Part of the reason I don't know why it was a big deal.


message 24: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: ""
So, if I start a Satanic ritual, you would be totally cool with it? "



Well that would be blatantly public, wouldn't it? I just mean silent prayers, or simply speaking about what you believe to someone else. A ritual seems similar to if someone started preaching out their religion, which I believe legitimately shouldn't happen.


message 25: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: "<3

When she said "pray" she really meant "Praying to MY God, in MY religion."

I doubt Pagans would be afforded the same rights. "



I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed the same things even though they believe differently.


message 26: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
GreenDaisy BlackStem wrote: "They wouldn't,and i know that because the majority of people in the US are of a Christian religion and alot of them happen to think Wiccans are evil or refuse to accept that other people belive oth..."


I believe that Christians should accept people regardless of what they believe or don't believe. It's not right for Christian's to discriminate. God loves everybody regardless of anything, and Christians, who are supposed to live like God, should too.


message 27: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: "Oh, it is? We do it every day, but like, half the school just stays sitting and ignores it. lol"

Actually the same thing kind of happened when I was in high school too. But my one of my History teachers actually did have us have a moment of silence, for prayer or to remember troops or whatever.


message 28: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
♥ Bella♥ {Hold Me: I’m a Fermata} wrote: "The reason why they don't have a set aside time for prayer in school is because in conflicts with the Constitution. They aren't suppose to inflict religous things on you at school. That's why you ..."


Like I just said in my last post, "One of my History teachers actually did have us have a moment of silence, for prayer or to remember troops or whatever." I don't think every person in that class was religious. Actually I know for a fact that I knew someone in that class that had no religion whatsoever. But no one ever complained about it.


message 29: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Jordyn wrote: "That's why you'd excuse yourself to the bathroom or I agree to just apply for a religious school. But for the religious school, I believe that you'd be taking that child out of a great experience t..."


Yes, private schools do take away some things for your kid. But if you want to shelter them just homeschool them why don't ya.


message 30: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "No, she was not disrupting the class, it was free time or something. She is a good student, and wouldn't purposefully try to be disrespectful.
"

Frankly, some teachers just don't want to get in trouble. Because some stupid kids will tell their parents that they were learning about religion, and the teacher could be fired.

"But no one ever complained about it. "

Just because no one feels they can complain about it doesn't make it right.


message 31: by Jordyn (new)

Jordyn (bookishadventures) | 42 comments I agree Lauren about the complaining part. I have been to many different churches, Lutheran, Mormon, Christian. And I've had sermons come to my house and preach. The funny thing about that is, they all say the same thing in different context. All religion sprouted from Christianity, and you don't have to agree with me, but just hear me out: All religion was formed around Christianity. And I'm not deliberately preaching if you all find that that is what this paragraph is. That is why all religion is similar in some way, shape, or form. Just people think that Jesus took a different path to get to his destination. Someone believes that Satan is good and so they pray to him.

It truly doesn't matter. People have their own religions that they choose to proceed on. And everyone should let them. It's their life, let them be what they want! To which I add that if you want to pray 5 times a day, go ahead, but you have to find a way to fit that into your lifestyle. If you want to do Satanic rituals in your basement, do so (just don't disrupt the public ;P)
~Sessy


message 32: by Daisy (last edited Apr 26, 2009 08:07AM) (new)

Daisy Jordyn wrote: "I agree Lauren about the complaining part. I have been to many different churches, Lutheran, Mormon, Christian. And I've had sermons come to my house and preach. The funny thing about that is, they..."

it's true that the begging religions were Christianity and whatever the indians did. But somewhere along the way Christians actually started taking a lot of stuff from Wicca.

I do not thin Satanism sprouted from Christianity I belive it was a reaction to Christianity for people who did not want to be Christian or did not like Christians

Did you know that May Day is actually Baltain?





message 33: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) "All religion sprouted from Christianity, and you don't have to agree with me, but just hear me out: All religion was formed around Christianity."

Then how ON EARTH did the Jews exist first? A time paradox? nu-uh, Christianity is a branch off of Judaism. The Old Testament is basically the Torah, stolen and reworked. Jesus was a Jew. So, no.

I don't think anyone prays to Satan, only because to believe Satan exists, you'd have to believe all the other crap too. And if you did, you wouldn't.

Daisy is correct. EVERYTHING about Christianity, from the Virgin Birth, the resurrection of Jesus, to the date of Christmas, to the Christmas tree itself, was already in existence, and stole from the Pagans. Or it was taken from the Jews.

"I do not thin Satanism sprouted from Christianity I belive it was a reaction to Christianity for people who did not want to be Christian or did not like Christians"

The Satanism I know, at least, was a response to the gluttony and overwhelming hypocrisy of Christianity. The televangelists are just a small example. They preach generosity and the benefits of a lack of wealth, while the Pope became the richest man in Europe by selling Get out of Hell Free cards a.k.a indulgences. Instead of using their tax-free status to help, they build mega-churches so everyone is more comfortable while they're told to feel bad about being human.


message 34: by Jordyn (new)

Jordyn (bookishadventures) | 42 comments Thank you for setting me straight. But how do you feel, that if religion was stolen, then wouldn't people whom worship that stolen religion be thieves?
~Sessy


message 35: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) The aren't thieves as much a plagiarists. I can't see how Christians believe the Jews are wrong, when they are almost the same thing, as with Islam.

It's a bunch of stories. Will people in the future worship Harry Potter? It makes no sense.


message 36: by Anuhea (new)

Anuhea (anuhearamsey) Basically Lauren covered it. Though, we do talk about religions in Geography class. Sometimes we talk about the different religions, what they worship, and what the book is. According to what I heard, it's just that teachers can't preach about their religion that they have. I talk to my friends about my religion occasionally. I prayed at school once, and I didn't get into trouble.


message 37: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) That's exactly how it should happen. You learn about it in history, neutrally.


message 38: by Kyle (new)

Kyle Borland (kgborland) Okay, I completely agree with Lauren that history class is how religion should be taught and from a neutral stand point, personally, my history teacher is an athiest and its the best class I ever had. Truly, though(this is completely off topic) athiest makes the best history teachers because they're not biased.

Oh yah and no religion in school is good. Because though Christians are like pleading for it then you would have to give the same priveleges to say Wiccans and they could do a little ritual whenever they wanted and people would complain. So instead of hearing the complaining, we took God, Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, the Goddess, Buddha and all them peeps out of schools and it is better that way.

And Jordyn, you saying that all religions sprouting from Christianity...uh...no. There is only one ORIGINAL part in Christianity lore and it is the resurrection. Lauren, that is actually just a Christian thing but everything else, your right, was taken from other religions.

NinjaFanpire, the truth is that Christians would complain that other religions were practicing their rituals its just what christians do. so, they made schools secular because that is the easiest and less offensive way towards everyone, to deal with the issue.




message 39: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Kyle-LUCKY! lol

Exactly. Christianity is so used to be privileged that when they actually have to become equal, they think they're being persecuted.

Resurrection- http://chuckwarnockblog.wordpress.com...

Maybe, maybe not. ;)

Nathan, you're a teacher? Cool. :) hahaha, I'm a freshman in high school, I feel small now. XDjk


message 40: by Daisy (new)

Daisy lol


message 41: by Daisy (new)

Daisy lol in my school our principal FAILS he is incapable of saying the word bra even though in the past year or so we have gone in for sexual assault in his words (bra based) 3 times!!!


message 42: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) lololol Forget overlord, I'm probably taller then you. :P 5'9".

Bra? BRA! BEWBS! omglol immaturity just went up.

>.> Many of my guy teachers are creepers. Except, like, 2.


message 43: by Daisy (new)

Daisy lol I have this ne kid in my class and if you're a girl and you;re all like "Steven" he will look up and stare right at your boobs and it is hilarious we did that one time because the other girls didn't know he did that qand we were all "Steven!" and then he looks and the other girls start giggling and we turn away laughing and are all like "See!"


message 44: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) lol At my lunch table, it's sport to the guys to throw quarters down our shirts. But they're my bffs, so it's all cool. And I get to keep anything I catch. lol

>.< I am so random.


message 45: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) lol I think this is more then you need to know Nathan.


message 46: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Kyle wrote: "NinjaFanpire, the truth is that Christians would complain that other religions were practicing their rituals its just what christians do. so, they made schools secular because that is the easiest and less offensive way towards everyone, to deal with the issue. "


Christian shouldn't, they should respect that someone has a different religion than themselves.


message 47: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: "Resurrection-
http://chuckwarnockblog.wordpress.com...

Maybe, maybe not. ;)"



About that, it confused me a little. Why would that shake my faith? Was it talking about my faith as a Christian or people with other religions?


message 48: by Ninja (new)

Ninja (ninjafanpire) | 616 comments Mod
Lauren wrote: "lol I think this is more then you need to know Nathan. "


Agreed.



message 49: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) Did you read the article? The resurrection could have been a stole pagan idea.


message 50: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) It totally was.

I wits they stole the Egyptian creation myth. *snicker*

WARNING PERVERTED!

the ancient Egyptians, believed three separate creation stories. There are some similarities. [2:]

" * Atum arose out of the primeval waters. He masturbated. Moisture arose from his semen and dryness from his breath. Note: There is no explanation how a complex reproductive system capable of producing semen arose out of (what?). Moisture and dryness copulated. This and further copulations led to everything that exists. "



If that were true, people might think church was a fun place to go to.



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