The Black Tower discussion

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Your crazy theory

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message 1: by Dave (new)

Dave | 25 comments Obviously make sure you have read all the books, theres bound to be spoilers here....






I havent checked this out yet, Im re-reading the series and will get to it evenutally... someone ran this by me recently...

Remember the scene, I think in the Waste in Book 4, where Rand gets a glimpse of the past and Age of Legends? This person submits that there is evidence in that scene that suggests the Age Of Legends wasnt medevil or renaissance in setting, but rather a technical, advanced SciFi society more advanced than we are today. Everything from that time, save rare artifacts, were destroyed by the Male Aes Sedai of the time when they went mad...

Crazy? I still think so, but its fresh and I will be looking for evidence to support it in my re-read...

Any other fresh, as in non "Taim is Demandred" type theories out there? Would love to hear them...


message 2: by Ben (new)

Ben | 39 comments i dont think thats crazy at all! i agree completely, it talkes about them having planes powered by the one power and vehicles and stuff like that it was more advanced


message 3: by Martin (new)

Martin (babfve) | 10 comments I agree with Ben. The visions of Rand while in the Rhuidean Ter'angreal were of flying machines and powered vehicles. It seems the age of legends was at least as advanced as we are today, if not more so in some ways. We also hear about this as the Forsaken complain about what they have now versus what they had in the past.

My crazy theory is that Rand and some woman, maybe Nynaeve, will seal the bore so completely with the Choedan Kal, that it will be as if it was done by The Creator. At the same time, anyone who can touch the one source will be eliminated. This will either be by design, or as a result of sealing the bore. Because of this, there will not be anyone left who can reopen the seal. This leads to the next age in the wheel where there is no one power. This "Fourth Age" is what we are living in today...
Eventually someone will re-discover the one power, and move us on to the next Age in the Wheel where the one power returns to use, enevitably leading to a new age of legends, a new opening in the seal and the Wheel of Time turns...

Just my Crazy, long theory...
Martin




message 4: by Oscar (new)

Oscar | 19 comments If one reads the world of WoT it is evidently a society in which the one power and technology bring new heights of art, science etc


message 5: by Bradley (new)

Bradley | 11 comments I want a car run by one power.. =)

www.twitter.com/orcish_dreams


message 6: by Oscar (new)

Oscar | 19 comments The fiat five powers...*smiles*


message 7: by Dave (last edited May 08, 2009 08:08PM) (new)

Dave | 25 comments Martin wrote: "My crazy theory is that Rand and some woman, maybe Nynaeve, will seal the bore so completely with the Choedan Kal, that it will be as if it was done by The Creator. At the same time, anyone who can touch the one source will be eliminated. This will either be by design, or as a result of sealing the bore. Because of this, there will not be anyone left who can reopen the seal. This leads to the next age in the wheel where there is no one power. This "Fourth Age" is what we are living in today...
Eventually someone will re-discover the one power, and move us on to the next Age in the Wheel where the one power returns to use, enevitably leading to a new age of legends, a new opening in the seal and the Wheel of Time turns...



Thats well thought out. Id rather have a good twist like that than a Rand wins but dies in sacrifice kind of cliche ending.



message 8: by Oscar (new)

Oscar | 19 comments Yes, i agree. maybe the channelers could live, but be gentled. A worse fate...


message 9: by Ben (new)

Ben | 39 comments i think Rand wins but Lews Therin "dies"


message 10: by Ben (new)

Ben | 39 comments does anyone elso think that Oliver, the kid with Matt is the guy the always ends up with Bergitte in all their past lives?


message 11: by liz (new)

liz (lizevans) | 67 comments Mod
Ben wrote: "does anyone elso think that Oliver, the kid with Matt is the guy the always ends up with Bergitte in all their past lives?"

I agree with this, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of the dead hero that Bergitte was linked to in the past.


message 12: by Ben (new)

Ben | 39 comments me either, but its gotta b the same person!


message 13: by Martin (new)

Martin (babfve) | 10 comments Gaidal Cain is the hero tied to Brigitte.
It seems too obvious that Oliver is Gaidal. The only problem is that Oliver was alive when Gaidal was last seen in the world of dreams. Also, he was recalled by the horn at the battle on Toman Head, so I don't think Oliver is Birgitte's man.
I have seen competing theories that one of Elayne's twins is Gaidal...


message 14: by Florence (new)

Florence | 2 comments Maybe when Moghedien ripped Birgitte from the World of Dreams, Gaidal (being connected to her) was ripped out as well. But because it wasn't done to his spirit physically (as was Birgitte's), he ended up taking Olver's body as a host. Just another crazy theory.


message 15: by Walter (last edited Jun 07, 2009 12:42AM) (new)

Walter (boltwalt) | 38 comments

Dave wrote: Remember the scene, I think in the Waste in Book 4, where Rand gets a glimpse of the past and Age of Legends? This person submits that there is evidence in that scene that suggests the Age Of Legends wasnt medevil or renaissance in setting, but rather a technical, advanced SciFi society more advanced than we are today. Everything from that time, save rare artifacts, were destroyed by the Male Aes Sedai of the time when they went mad...

That doesn't work, I would call it a time of great engineering powered by those who could channel. As evidence I remember the line about the last of the Jo Cars having been hauled off due to no Aes Sedai to power them. I would like to believe the Aes Sedai were more like civil servants who were expected to power the great engineering feats and thus serve society and to which some undoubtedly felt that those who could not channel were socially beneath them and should in turn be serving them. I think of the Age of Legends much more as the Age of Magic and Engeneering. The age of Technology is current in its infancy beginning with Aludra's use of fireworks in other forms and Rands schools so far bringing to use steam engines on to the scene. These will show many that one must not need to channel to create great things and works.











message 16: by Sinknitty (new)

Sinknitty | 9 comments Ben wrote: "i think Rand wins but Lews Therin "dies""

I have thought that many times because the one lady I cant remember her name need to reread but Min says she needs to stay with Rand because she will help him die.

Ever think that Lews Therin would hear Rand in his head in his age?


message 17: by Sinknitty (new)

Sinknitty | 9 comments Ben wrote: "does anyone elso think that Oliver, the kid with Matt is the guy the always ends up with Bergitte in all their past lives?"

I've also considered that BUT Oliver was already born when Bergitte's lover was still in the world of dreams awaiting the call of the Horn. Sooo... Perhaps one of Elane and Rand's twins is him to be reborn. Would be interesting considering Bergitte is her warder.


message 18: by Sinknitty (new)

Sinknitty | 9 comments Martin wrote: "Gaidal Cain is the hero tied to Brigitte.
It seems too obvious that Oliver is Gaidal. The only problem is that Oliver was alive when Gaidal was last seen in the world of dreams. Also, he was rec..."


Proves I should read other posts before throwing my hat in the ring!



message 19: by Sinknitty (new)

Sinknitty | 9 comments Walter wrote: "

Dave wrote: Remember the scene, I think in the Waste in Book 4, where Rand gets a glimpse of the past and Age of Legends? This person submits that there is evidence in that scene that suggests ..."


There is no beginning or end this is just one beginning


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

I think that when Rand seals up the whole or whatever and the world is fixed he will lose the ability to channel, but not like being gentled. It won't make him go mad and he won't still be able to feel the source. He'll just be normal. This would be a really great ending because it would create all sorts of great scenes with the people he use to threaten to get things done, but now he doesn't have the power to defend himself.


message 21: by Sinknitty (new)

Sinknitty | 9 comments Kate wrote: "I think that when Rand seals up the whole or whatever and the world is fixed he will lose the ability to channel, but not like being gentled. It won't make him go mad and he won't still be able to..."

Oh I don't think that would be a very happy ending but it would perhaps solve some of his problems.




message 22: by Eugene (new)

Eugene Debafan | 1 comments The truth is, Narg is the Dark One. Everyone knows that.


message 23: by Ben (new)

Ben | 39 comments I think Semerhedge is gona teach Cadsuane how 2 heal scars (i think she is the chosen that keeps offering 2 heal the guys chosens scar that Lews therin gave him) at the end of Knife of dreams she is captured and Cadsuane puts an a'dam on her. and i think she is gona heal rands face and hands!


message 24: by Joshua (new)

Joshua (joshua_mortensen) | 3 comments Eugene wrote: "The truth is, Narg is the Dark One. Everyone knows that. "

Ummm...isn't narg the trolloc that Rand killed in book 1? please explain.




message 25: by Zee (new)

Zee (zeesmuse) | 4 comments Maybe when Moghedien ripped Birgitte from the World of Dreams, Gaidal (being connected to her) was ripped out as well.

No. Brigitte grouses to Elayne that Gaidal had been spun out just before, meaning he had been BORN. And with her being ripped out without going through hte birth process, he would be 20 years too young.

However, this doesn't make sense - if he was called to the Horn and the final battle is coming, shoot! He'll be a babe in the cradle during the Final battle.

*waves to Bradley*


message 26: by Carrie (Care) (new)

Carrie (Care) (care76) | 78 comments Ben wrote: "does anyone elso think that Oliver, the kid with Matt is the guy the always ends up with Bergitte in all their past lives?"

It does kind of seem like he could be him, but he's not. R.J. himself said he is not and that he could not be. :(


message 27: by Tim (new)

Tim (dallinar92) | 5 comments What do you think of Olver actually being the 3rd one to go and rescue Moiraine? Crazy, yes, but it'd be really intersting to have happen.


message 28: by Marty (new)

Marty (martyjm) Perrin,
I think Olver is bound to play an important role in the rescue of Moraine....music and iron whatever world.



message 29: by Carrie (Care) (new)

Carrie (Care) (care76) | 78 comments I completely agree. All those snake and foxes games have to be for something, lol.


message 30: by Roshio (new)

Roshio | 35 comments Wow the first theory, the one of the Sci Fi age on second thought makes quite a bit of sense. It'd be pretty darn cool if that was the case. Its being a while since I read the books, but what part do you all think the people from the distant worlds are gonna play in Tarmon Gaidon? (i don't mean the Seanchan) I can't remember what they are called, but the Aiel trade with them and I think Graendal has some spies there or something like that.


message 31: by John (new)

John (gigalew) | 6 comments Sinknitty wrote: "Ben wrote: "does anyone elso think that Oliver, the kid with Matt is the guy the always ends up with Bergitte in all their past lives?"

I've also considered that BUT Oliver was already born when B..."


I think Oliver is a very key character somehow. Oliver being the authors middle name is my only clue to that though. Time flows differently in the world of dreams...he could well be gaidle kain.


message 32: by John (new)

John (gigalew) | 6 comments Dave wrote: "Obviously make sure you have read all the books, theres bound to be spoilers here....






I havent checked this out yet, Im re-reading the series and will get to it evenutally... someone r..."


Well the dark ones prison HAS to be sealed in that manner at some point, but not necessarily at the end of the books. I was thinking along the same lines.......but with an age where the women go crazy when they channel happening next.


message 33: by Emma (new)

Emma (ewetten) | 6 comments On the Olver thing, I definitely have always suspected that he was Birgitte's man. Sure the timing doesn't work but we have lots of evidence that time in the World of Dreams is very different. That said, I think I remember Jordan definitively saying that Olver was NOT Gaidal Caine (sp?)

As far as the bore, I have always held dearly onto the theory that the backlash would taint the female half of the power this time. Wouldn't that be fun?


message 34: by John (new)

John LeViness (jlawrence) | 5 comments What if Rand is the Dark One? What if that is why he marked as a beast? What if he has to merge his light with his dark half in order to give the Dark corporeal form, so that his blood can have meaning when it is spilled in prophecy? This could be why the wound from the dagger won't heal.


message 35: by Roshio (new)

Roshio | 35 comments I really doubt rand is the dark one. Surely the scene in the last book with the apple tree proves rand is of the light.


message 36: by Walter (last edited May 17, 2012 05:18PM) (new)

Walter (boltwalt) | 38 comments J. wrote: "What if Rand is the Dark One? What if that is why he marked as a beast? What if he has to merge his light with his dark half in order to give the Dark corporeal form, so that his blood can have mea..."

What Mark of the Beast on Rand? When did the Catholic church get a foot hold in Randland?


message 37: by John (new)

John LeViness (jlawrence) | 5 comments Lol. Not mark of the beast. As a beast, as in dragons circling his arms. Are dragons always good?


message 38: by Mach (new)

Mach | 38 comments Rand being the Dark one? lol that was a new one. I am wondering if we read the same books.


message 39: by Carrie (Care) (new)

Carrie (Care) (care76) | 78 comments Um, that is definitely a crazy theory, lol. The wound won't heal because it is evil, Rand isn't. Also, dragons are not a symbol of evil or the DO. Something like that would have had to have been mentioned in previous books.


message 40: by James McClellan (last edited Jun 11, 2012 10:39PM) (new)

James McClellan | 1 comments My crazy theory:

Egwene determined to stop Rand from breaking the last Seal of the Bore, marshals the strength of the White Tower and any nation that follows the towers lead. But before her plans are laid, she must first participate in freeing her sisters trapped in the Black Tower. It is here where she learns of the Dream Spike and how it effected the outcome of her battle with Mesaana.

At this time her last key to stopping Rand has fallen into place, as she realizes she may be able to overcome Rands vast advantage in the power and stop him physically from being able to break the last Seal. Remembering the Dreamspike, she recruits the 22 most experienced and strongest Aes Sedai in the Tower, the Sitters along with the Keeper, to create and hold a barrier around the Seal. Respecting Rands, strength the Barrier is raised from within Tel'aran'rhiod, with the exception that one cannot enter through the bounds of the barrier via natural or Gateway means, opposite of the Dreamspike.

Rand, realizing after only being able to crack the appearing crystalline barrier, needs to completes its destruction from Tel'aran'rhiod. But quickly he realizes the source of the shield, the Sitters, the Keeper and the Amyrlin herself Egwene, holding the barrier together. After warning them to stand down, the Sisters assault Rand, forcing Rand to sever them from the power and simultaneously removing the source of the barrier.

Meanwhile while the hierarchy of the White Tower are distracted by Rand, the notoriously inconvenient Seanchans full force attack upon the White Tower commence. With gates opening in the sky, hundreds of Raken and To'Raken funnel through th power wrought holes in the sky. As well as those, gates start appearing in unison all around within and out of the Tower. With soldiers pouring through and Damane rocking the tower guard, it quickly looks to be an inevitable defeat of the Tower Aes Sedai.

Yet among the Aes Sedai, one Matrim Cauthon has arrived, only shortly before, to retrieve the Horn of Valere. Having been first denied access, to his great fury, the Aes Sedai glady release the legendary horn to him, seeing the wisdom during these precarious moments of looming defeat. Mat blows the Horn and Artur Hawkwing and his truly ever victorious army procede to decimate the Seanchan army. Fortuona, Queen of the Seanchan having accompanied her army and seeing her forefather wrath concedes the battle before any more damage can be done. Which as an added benefit allows a meeting between Fortuona, Hawkwing and Mat. What happens here is debatable even after the theory itself, But my guess is Fortuona after hearing from Artur sees there errors within the corrupted Seanchan Prophecies and concedes the erroneous behavior and culture of the past generations of Seanchan and decrees that captured channelers should be freed as well as the native grown channelers although at a later time.

They all, Artur and his army, Mat and after retrieving them, the Band of the Red Hand and Fortuona's army, arrive at the Feild of Merrilor ready to fight.... United at last.

Z


message 41: by Kenneth (new)

Kenneth Geary (KagedBooks) (kagedbooks) | 81 comments Martin wrote: "Gaidal Cain is the hero tied to Brigitte.
It seems too obvious that Oliver is Gaidal. The only problem is that Oliver was alive when Gaidal was last seen in the world of dreams. Also, he was reca..."


RJ has said Olver is not Cain, but who knows if sanderson changed that.


message 42: by Roshio (new)

Roshio | 35 comments Nah with RJ's wife as editor, I doubt that! My crazy theory is mr Sanderson will be unable to finish the series with one book. There are too many loose ends. With the seanchan and all the different prophecies at play! But we will see.


message 43: by Kenneth (new)

Kenneth Geary (KagedBooks) (kagedbooks) | 81 comments Well the last three books were all supposed to be one massive last book call A Memory of Light, but Sanderson's website said that he has finished the book already so i guess we will see in Jan.


message 44: by Carrie (Care) (new)

Carrie (Care) (care76) | 78 comments The book is finished and just going through the editing stage. There is no way it will be turned into more than one book since like Kenneth said, that already happened.

I wish there was one more book. I can't imagine how everything is going to be tied up in one. and honestly, I really don't want it to be over. :(


message 45: by Kenneth (new)

Kenneth Geary (KagedBooks) (kagedbooks) | 81 comments I hate to see it end as well there is definitly enough story there for several more books, but sadly no more Jordan.

Here's a crazy theory Sanderson should write more books in Randland. altough if this age is ending I would like some books to come out that detail the events during the Age of Legends.


message 46: by Carrie (Care) (new)

Carrie (Care) (care76) | 78 comments Originally there were going to be the outrigger novels about Tuon and Mat, but I think those won't happen. It is Harriet's call, and I think between Brandon and herself they don't want to milk it. Just finish the original series for the fans because that is what RJ wanted. But you never know...


message 47: by Levi (new)

Levi de Groot | 19 comments Martin wrote: "Gaidal Cain is the hero tied to Brigitte.
It seems too obvious that Oliver is Gaidal. The only problem is that Oliver was alive when Gaidal was last seen in the world of dreams. Also, he was reca..."


Gaidal was already born when brigette was torn out


message 48: by Levi (new)

Levi de Groot | 19 comments does anyone know if brandon is going to do more prequels? because Robert Jordan was going to do three but just settled with New Spring. i would love to see all the events going up to when moraine and Lan go into Two Rivers


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

Levi wrote: "does anyone know if brandon is going to do more prequels? because Robert Jordan was going to do three but just settled with New Spring. i would love to see all the events going up to when moraine a..."

Me too! I loved New Spring, but I want to know what happens next


message 50: by Kathryn (new)

Kathryn | 32 comments Florence wrote: "Maybe when Moghedien ripped Birgitte from the World of Dreams, Gaidal (being connected to her) was ripped out as well. But because it wasn't done to his spirit physically (as was Birgitte's), he en..."

While still in the World of Dreams, Birgitte told Nynaeve that she had not seen Gaidal in some time, so I don't think he was ripped out, but born out again as is natural.


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