Gillifans discussion
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Gillibran Brown
Biggest meany apart from Shane
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Absolutely, I just hated, hated, hated Leo at first but he did get better in Gilliflowers.
Incidentally, we have just brought home a new member of our family - a very cute little hamster. What did I want to call it? Yep, you guessed it - Gilli, or even Gillibran Brown which I thought was quite a cute name for the little blond bundle of fluff. Guess what the kids have officially named it? Penny! FFS. It's actually named after Penny from the Big Bang Theory but that doesn't soften the blow any :(
Gillibran Brown the hamster would have bee totally adorable. What about a double name to soften the Penny blow a bit?
Nooooooooooo don't call the hamster Penny aka the bitch from hell who should die the death of a thousand snakebites and fester in a pit of dog vomit without a straw to breathe through..... I'm not keen on her!!! Lol. :D
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I can't do anything about it. The kids have made their choice, and seeing as I'm not in the least bit dommy like Shane, if it makes my babies happy then I'm letting them, even if it's against my better judgement. But then I would have let Gilli have that kitten too...
Danni wrote: "Macky wrote: "Nooooooooooo don't call the hamster Penny aka the bitch from hell who should die the death of a thousand snakebites and fester in a pit of dog vomit without a straw to breathe through..."You are a good mummy! :)
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Lol, I subscribe to the Roseanne Barr school of parenting: As a housewife, I feel that if the kids are still alive when my husband gets home from work, then hey, I've done my job.
Danni wrote: "Macky wrote: You are a good mummy! :) "Lol, I subscribe to the Roseanne Barr school of parenting: As a housewife, I feel that if the kids are still alive when my husband gets home from work, the..."
Ahh Rosanne... The voice of parenting by snarky wit! Love it.... Now she'd have Shane shaking in his shoes and she'd plant Penny!!
Macky wrote: "Danni wrote: "Macky wrote: "Nooooooooooo don't call the hamster Penny aka the bitch from hell who should die the death of a thousand snakebites and fester in a pit of dog vomit without a straw to b..."Ohh, I haven't heard that one yet. That's GREAT. I was on the verge of strangling some small terrorist today but he still lives :-D So I've done my job well today, I'm relived.
a shaking Shane wold be a sight to beheld. I'd pay to see it!!!
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If we'd called her Gilli l might not have had such a tearful daughter yesterday. That said, she does love running around in her wheel, putting all her energy into getting nowhere so maybe there is some Gilli in her.
I actually like Leo and thinks that he has unresolved feelings for Gilli. He is always trying to be affectionate with Gilli in scenes of the first Houseboy book where he kisses Gilli goodnight after a visit with Howard and Rob, and in Achilles when he tries to hug Gilli after the Civil Partner ceremony and ends up ruffling his hair because Gilli moves away, in one of the books he expresses to Dick that he doesn't know what he needs to do to get along with Gilli, and finally when he tells Jak to eat with his mouth because Jak was taking too much pleasure in taunting Gilli about no alcohol. If Gilli were ever to break up with Shane and Dick I would like to see him with Leo. Leo is like the schoolboy who teases and bugs the girl (in this case Gilli) he likes and not know how to come out and just say or even realize that he likes that person. I very much think that Leo wants Gilli for himself, first because as a alpha Dom the bratty sub that needs to be tamed calls out to his needs as evident in Achilles when he told Shane that he lets Gilli's moods dictate too much, secondly Gilli's free spirit amuses him and is so different from his organized, controlled, routine life. He probably thinks that Shane lets his sub get away with much more than any Dom should. By the way I thought it was very cute that Leo playfully makes fun of Gilli's youth by giving him Bob the Buider and Peppa Pig DVDs. Hope to see more Leo and Gilli interactions. I get so mad at Shane because never once does he ever tells Gilli how he feels.
Jenny wrote: "I actually like Leo and thinks that he has unresolved feelings for Gilli. He is always trying to be affectionate with Gilli in scenes of the first Houseboy book where he kisses Gilli goodnight aft..."
I agree with you about Leo having feelings for Gilli.
I agree with you about Leo having feelings for Gilli.
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I'm really interested in this idea because it never crossed my mind, but now you've said it I think you've definitely got a point. I always thought Leo was just an arrogant prick (although my attitude towards him did soften a little in book 4,) but now I do see it differently. Maybe Leo is also envious of his ex (Shane) having someone so vibrant in his life too? There's definitely something in it.
Leo and Gilli, sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g...
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Hmmm not sure on the Leo thingy... I guess its possible but I still think he's an arse! He did slightly redeem himself in book 4 but he's like a lot of the others,treats Gilli like a second class citizen.... Unless its his way of pulling Gillis pigtails in the schoolyard? Jury's still out on that one for me!
Jenny wrote: "I actually like Leo and thinks that he has unresolved feelings for Gilli. He is always trying to be affectionate with Gilli in scenes of the first Houseboy book where he kisses Gilli goodnight aft..."I agree with you, that Leo has feelings for Gilli, but I'm not really sure to which degree they are a crush or only friendly feelings. Anyway, he often treats Gilli with more kindness and maybe even understanding than Shane (the wine thing f.e., he tries to make it easier on Gilli to go without alcohol while Shane, as well as Dick by the way, are pretty ignorant). Then there are the moments when Leo makes really crued and cruel comments about Gilli (especially in Achilles) - I'm not sure how this counts into the "I like him". Maybe he wants to make Shane kick him out? So he has a chance? I'm not sure about it...
Jenny wrote: "I actually like Leo and thinks that he has unresolved feelings for Gilli. He is always trying to be affectionate with Gilli in scenes of the first Houseboy book where he kisses Gilli goodnight aft..."I'm totally with you on this. I think when Gilli no longer wants to be the "child" in a threesome that he would be good for Leo and vice versa.
I don't think it's healthy for Gilli to stay in a threeway relationship where he is expected to remain in that "helpless" role for the rest of his life. And by helpless I mean not take on some form of responsibility for his own actions.
But then the whole dynamic would change. At the moment it's Papa Bear, Momma Bear and Baby Bear.
Threeway D/s relationships have been written before. "Room at the Top" for example, but then the two subs were equal and had the stronger (and longer) emotional bond.
I also think there is a degree of conscious "role play" being shown here. That both Shane and Gilli "act out" their positions, possibly as a means of reinforcing them to retain that three tier dynamic. When it's unclear who is who, the whole structure feels unstable. the artificiality of it, in a way keeps it strong because they have to keep reinforcing the dynamic.
It would be interesting getting Jason's feedback on the question of D/sD/s relationships.
What were all forgetting is that Leo is not a Daddy hes more into BDSM practices and its Dick whse the one who enjoys that more hardcore sexual side of D/s relationships as does Shane but Gilli doesn't have the right mindset to submit to those aspects of the lifestyle, he needs the discipline of a Daddy which is slightly different to the usual Dom/ sub relationship, that's why he's not invited or very rarely wants to go to the sex party's that involve Leo and his squeezes of the moment like the sneaky peevish Jak. He and Leo wouldn't be a good match at all.
It depends on whether the whole BDSM D/s relationship is 24/7 to the same extent for both parties in a mutually exclusive arrangement.I could imagine it working if Gilli "grew up" and didn't need a Daddy to discipline him as much.
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A.B. wrote: "It depends on whether the whole BDSM D/s relationship is 24/7 to the same extent for both parties in a mutually exclusive arrangement.I could imagine it working if Gilli "grew up" and didn't need..."
"What are Daddy/boy relationships? There’s no simple answer. First and foremost they are nothing whatsoever to do with incest of any description. They involve non related adults. Daddy and boy are terms of affection and respect. In gay culture the term Daddy simply denotes a person who has consensual authority in a relationship, much like the term Master in a bdsm relationship. Like all relationships involving aspects of power exchange, Daddy/boy relationships have many facets and take many forms. It isn’t a one size fits all kind of structure. As with all PE relationships it’s up to the individuals concerned to find interpretations that best suit personal needs and desires. Some D/b relationships have a strong sexual motivation, the people involved are lovers and partners, some don't involve sex at all, but are purely paternal and in place to offer motivation, guidance and, when necessary, discipline.
In this context Dick and Shane are mentors, lovers, protectors and friends. They nurture, guide, admonish and discipline as and when they see fit. Boy in the context of a D/b relationship refers to a fully adult male. If you don't get the D/b thing then nothing I say will ever make you get it, so forget it and go find something to read that you do get."
Gillibran Brown
This is from Gillis blog and it shows that the daddy/ boy relationship is different to a BDSM Master/sub relationship or Dom/sub one. Gilli isn't the right mindset for a true master/sub but the daddy/boy discipline is what he responds to and of course we know that he can't always submit to all the things he should within his relationship with Shane and Dick so I still say a pairing with Leo is not a good one. Doesn't work a all for me but that's just my take on it.
Macky wrote: "A.B. wrote: "It depends on whether the whole BDSM D/s relationship is 24/7 to the same extent for both parties in a mutually exclusive arrangement.I could imagine it working if Gilli "grew up" an..."
I get the difference between Daddy/boy and D/s . My point was whether that form of relationship is forever. I can see why it was good for Gilli who missed out on that caring, boundary forming loving guidance as he didn't get that at home, but long term is it what he needs?
Forget about Leo for now. Who knows what sort of person Gilli would change into when he goes into that next stage of his life.
A.B. wrote: "Macky wrote: "A.B. wrote: "It depends on whether the whole BDSM D/s relationship is 24/7 to the same extent for both parties in a mutually exclusive arrangement.I could imagine it working if Gill..."
Sorry AB I wasn't meaning to sound preachy , course you know the difference, but to be honest I didn't when I first read these books. In fact the whole dynamic of any type of D/s or BDSM relationship was something that went over the top of my head, still does, because I just don't get how someone gets off on being dominated or why someone would get pleasure from pain but it doesn't bother or disgust me. Its fascinating but not my thing. I always say each to their own and what goes on between consenting adults is fine as long as its not involving kids or rape. I was just stuck on this discussion of pairing Leo with Gilli which as everyone probably knows now is not happening for me but I do see what your saying about Gilli if he moved into a different mindset later in his life. Who knows. I just like to think that one day - whatever lifestyle he decides on - he gets the love he craves but never seems to get fully from Shane. :)
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Tbh, I believe that Gilli will not change (or grow up) as long as he stays in the relationship with Dick and Shane. They play out their roles and IMO this doesn't allow for any real growth on Gilli's part. He goes round and round in circles emotionally all the time, and what it boils down to is the fact that he knows that he is not truly loved in the same way that Dick and Shane love each other. He is like a 'naughty' child doing anything he can to get Shane's attention when what he wants is love and very sadly how ever much you might want somebody to love you, if they don't, they don't.
Macky wrote: "I just like to think that one day - whatever lifestyle he decides on - he gets the love he craves but never seems to get fully from Shane. :) "I doubt whether we'll ever get to see it anyway. I'm afraid, I'm in the school that doesn't see it as an autobiography so it will always be a Papa Bear/Mama Bear/Baby Bear threesome.
The way I see it, Gilli is to a certain extent looking for that stern father figure as that is what he feels he missed out on. So he "acts out" to get that type of attention. Much like the naughty kid in a class or a disobedient child is doing when he craves the attention more than because he wants to be naughty.
Shane recognises this and acts accordingly, but how can Shane "be in love" with a child?
It becomes a chicken and egg thing. Gilli does that as he feels (whether rightly or wrongly) that that's the only way he'll get that "special" attention. Shane gives it because he knows he needs that reassurance but is angry with him because he doesn't need to "act out" to be loved.
It's parents/teachers and kids all over.
Gilli's epilepsy adds another dimension to the story in that it gives a reason for a lot of the problems that occur and stop them being just petty childishness. Most episodes have some lingering effect. It's the one aspect that would make a continued unequal threesome work to ensure he is properly looked after.
Also as such he definitely shouldn't be involved in the lifestyle.
Danni wrote: "A.B. wrote: "Who knows what sort of person Gilli would change into when he goes into that next stage of his life. "Tbh, I believe that Gilli will not change (or grow up) as long as he stays in t..."
Lol Danni, great minds think alike. I was carefully writing my post while you posted yours!
So the debate goes on! Lol. Its amazing really that a character like Gilli pulls at so many of our hearts. Whatever you're thoughts are it just shows that real or not its very cleverly written. As for Gilli, it appears he's sticking with his Daddies come hell or high water and to be honest would the books be as good if the relationship was more balanced... I don't think so and I don't think it would garner the fan base it has if it was just another m/m D/s story. As awful as it sounds I think we all want Gilli, Shane and Dick to carry on exactly as they are because if they don't we'd have nothing to grump about!
Macky wrote: " As awful as it sounds I think we all want Gilli, Shane and Dick to carry on exactly as they are because if they don't we'd have nothing to grump about! "Exactly! Stories need conflict. Shane (and Leo) provide it perfectly. We all need to be needed and the more we perceive a character as needing, the more we love them.
A.B. wrote: "Macky wrote: " As awful as it sounds I think we all want Gilli, Shane and Dick to carry on exactly as they are because if they don't we'd have nothing to grump about! "Exactly! Stories need confl..."
* fistbump* :D
I still want to take Gilli home and love him.
Ann wrote: "I still want to take Gilli home and love him."Ann, I hope your hand is up to the task. Shane's probably developed callouses on his.
Hey A.B I've already got Leather +Lace waiting patiently on my Kindle. I downloaded the sample from Amazon and loved it so as soon as Ive finished the books I'm on at the mo I'll read it. I loved Red + Blue so had to get It! :)
Danni wrote: "A.B. wrote: "Who knows what sort of person Gilli would change into when he goes into that next stage of his life. "
Tbh, I believe that Gilli will not change (or grow up) as long as he stays in t..."
I have to agree with Danni here. I think as long as Gilli is stuck with Shane and Dick he win't change because he's not getting what he wnts. He's trying to be good, he's pleading, he's provoking, everything to get the love he craves. As long as he won't receive it he'll keep going to think of whatever way he might get the love he craves. There's no chance for him to grow up as long as he's "kept" in such an emotionally insecure mindset.
A.B. wrote: "Macky wrote: "I just like to think that one day - whatever lifestyle he decides on - he gets the love he craves but never seems to get fully from Shane. :) "I doubt whether we'll ever get to see ..."
I'm not sure about the child perspective. Gilli actually has very deep thoughts on the one hand on the other, well it's OK to not love the kid but have sex with it? I admit I'm not a Shane fan but I won't see some kind of "child molester" in him. If it would be like you said it should be a sexless relationship between Gili and Shane.
Yeah, Gilli does "childish" things, some are due to his age others are due to the fact that he tries to, if not freely give, provoke care and love from Shane (that's how I see it at least). Shane and Dick call this childish behaviour. I don't think I agree with this definition, I think it's desperate behaviour..
After despising Leo in the first three books I must admit he grew to me. Not that I love him but, he really made and effort to make the 0% alcohol politics for Gilli a bit easier to deal with by trying to find him a tasty alcohol free wine. That's much more than Shane and Dick did who shot Gilli immediately down if he only mentioned as much as the word alcohol. He also showed a much better understanding of Gillis jealousy than Shane, taking and dismissing it with humour instead of making a big deal out if it and worsen the situation by that still. Also like his reference on the recipe as Captain Pugwash.
I also came to believe that his crude comments which Shane dismisses as bad humor are founded in the fact, that Leo knew from the very beginning, that Gilli is a boy toy and no equal partner in their relationship.
Penny on the other hand - I actually have no words for such a vicious B-I-T-C-H.