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Savannah didn't deserve Tim or John (Spoilers)

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Kristen I don't often hate one of the main characters in a book so much, but I really didn't like Savannah. I don't care how sympathetic her story was, the fact is, she cheated on John when she fell in love with Tim. And the part that kills me, is that she really didn't even love Tim that much. It was just comfortable and he was just there at the time. She broke up with John and married Tim even though she was still in love with John and only felt affection for Tim. Pretty much the same way she always did.

And sure, I understand that it was hard being apart and that she was lonely and everything else. But by that time, she knew what she was signing up for. If she couldn't handle another 2 years apart, she should have been honest with John from the start.

If all that's not bad enough, she uses John after she breaks his heart. She knows he's still in love with her when he comes to see her that last time and she knows how difficult being around her is for him, but she begs him to be there for her, regardless of what he feels. Because hey, all that matters to Savannah is Savannah apparently.

On top of all that, she makes it pretty clear to John that she's willing to cheat on her husband - the one she gave up John for and who's dying in the hospital. Knowing that he's still in love with her and would have found it near impossible to say no.

She's just a horrible person.

And I'm sorry, but does anyone else feel like the whole book was pretty pointless since they don't end up together? Personally, if I read a love story, I want the characters I spent so much time reading about, to end up together. I'm thinking of giving the book a lower rating just for that.


Lisa Marie Hi Kristen. I really didn't care for Savannah when I read the book either. I felt exactly the same way. I differ though in that I love this story. Not because of Savannah, but because of John.
He so dearly loved her. John's love for Savannah was great. It was not reciprocated, but it didn't make his love for her any less. On the other side. When Savannah threw herself at him, he could have taken advantage of the situation, but he didn't because he loved her. He made the donation at the story not because he wanted Tim to live, but because he loved Savannah.
It's a love story, just not the kind that we hope for. John was so selflessly in love with Savannah, and you could see it especially when he left her there with her dying husband, despite the fact that he loved her.


Kristen I really liked John too. I liked how much he grew and really became a better person. And I agree with almost everything you said about his selfless love for Savannah, and maybe that's sort of the whole point of the story. But I don't think he was just being noble in not taking advantage of her. I think he probably would have, if not for Alan coming in at the time.
But, I don't know, I just think the whole thing was pretty depressing. I mean, yeah I love John, but after everything he goes through, he ends up completely alone in the world, and still in love with someone he can't have. And it makes me sad that he does still love her after how selfish and manipulative she was.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

Totally agree. I couldn't believe she'd done that… he was away, but he needed her, and she became weak. (morally) and didn't believe enough in their love. I don't hate her for that, but he really went down in my esteem when she "cheated" on John with Tim.


Cassondra I didn't think Savannah was at all manipulative. One thing I love about Nicholas Sparks's books is that you can't always predict the ending and that it's not always where the lovers end up together in that way. This book was super awesome because it shows us that true love doesn't always "get" but it does always give. Yes, John didn't "get" Savannah in the end, didn't get what he "wanted" but he got something better... he got to give life, and isn't that what love is anyway?


message 6: by Kristen (last edited Mar 24, 2013 12:50AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kristen I think on John's side of it, love was illustrated very well. He learned to love and accept his father the way he was and even appreciate those quirks that he hated so much when he was younger. And then especially with Savannah later on.
I just think Savannah was pretty awful to both John and Tim. Mainly how she basically cheated on both of them when the relationship wasn't 'convenient'.

I didn't mean she was always manipulative. Just mostly when John comes back at the end and she begs him to stay and support her emotionally when she knows how hard it would be for him to be around her. A decent person would have let him go and dealt with the situation she chose when she broke up with him. Not made it harder for the person she supposedly still loved.

It also sort of disgusted me a little at the end when John was leaving and Savannah wanted to keep in contact. I mean, maybe she was just being naive and wanted a friend to talk to or whatever, but I can't help thinking that she 'knew' that Tim wouldn't make it and wanted a back-up for when he was gone.

But yeah, I get that in the real world, things don't always work out where the two people in love wind up happily ever after. And sometimes I'm ok with a book like that. I mean, I loved a Walk to Remember and that was pretty dang depressing....I just don't necessarily want to read about the love story that never got the chance to work out because one or both of the people was selfish and/or stupid.


Lelyana's Reviews I was just re-read DJ and still thinking that what John had given to her was his love. Unconditional.
See, when you love someone desperately, you' d do anything to make her happy even it's killed you inside.
Savanah obviously didn't deserved his love or even Tim. They're both deserved better.
I gave 5 Stars for John's unconditional love, for his salvation.
He's a real hero. Fuck Savanah!
The ending was all we need, it supposed to be like that. She didn't deserve John. He's too nobke for her. NS knows how to end the story.


Claire I guess reading from John's perspective, I am sort of influenced by his thoughts, which makes me not like Savannah for what she does. however, when I really think about it, I think she is just confused about her own feeling, thus her going back and forth between to guys who love her.


Lelyana's Reviews I think so, but I still dislike Savanah for huting John's heart. I cried for John...at some point I wanted to hate Tim for wanting her.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

I disliked Savannah because she was too immature for a real relationship. By saying this, I mean she had to lead John on, and marry Tim, even though each of them will forever be impacted by her. She will always love both of them, and both of them will always love her, but in the end, I think she's a user. She married Tim because she was desperate from relief of John's absence, and then was willing to throw Tim in the garbage bin for a little bit of John. Sorry if you disagree, but that is my opinion on the matter.


Lelyana's Reviews I think she's the type of cannot live without a man...impatient and doubtful :)


message 12: by T.L. (new) - rated it 3 stars

T.L. Brown Lelyana wrote: "I think she's the type of cannot live without a man...impatient and doubtful :)"

Agreed. Though I feel if that is the case, Tim was the better choice. John should be with a girl that appeals to both the military side and the rebellious as well. Tim was simply the most logical and (most important) reliable choice between the two. John is the better man, however, she did not like that he was always busy with the military.


Dania all i can say is i have the book in my to read shelf..and just wathced the movie and it made me thinking that if the movie is this much depressing how much will the book be....but i dont hate savannah..she did what she thought was best.it was sympathy for tim


message 14: by Ayla (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ayla I agree, She was selfish. If she wanted to help Tim and his boy there are plenty of other ways she could have helped, and I agree with Kristin, Savanna should have told John from the beginning. I Don't think she knew what love really was or she would have waited as long as she had to for John to come back. And if she loved Tim she wouldn't have cheated on him. I understand the sympathy this is suppose to come from it, but I don't agree with her decisions. Again, I agree with Kristin, A love story should end with the two that are in love to be in love with each other at the end of the book. Even if one passes at the end, they are still together. That's real love. Not this College girl who thinks she knows what she's feeling, but she doesn't, she only sees convenience in the relationship with Tim and the inconvenience of John's work. She's selfish, that's that.


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

I dislike Tim


Mawada Ibrahim I thought Tim was a bit selfish, as Savanna. I realize that he wanted to make sure his son will be safe after his death, but just not like that. I don't think marriage was the right solution. On the other hand, i was kind of surprised by John's reaction. He should have been mad, he was so wronged. I liked John, I dislike Savanna. And i have no feelings of hate or love for Tim.


daphne I still feel bad for John... Savanna should have waited for him to come back I like her but why she did this. And why John feels bad for still loving Savanna, Tim is the one who should feel bad, he stealed John's girlfriend. Whenever John thinks of Savanna he feels bad because she is married, HE STEALED HER FROM YOU! Savanna said that she started felling in love with Tim but Tim said she loves John, so why she broke up with him??? Why she cheated on John??? She said that he is special so why you broke his heart??? I just started disliking Tim for that...it should have been different.


Idalia I didn't realize there were readers that disliked Savannah this much. It was completely opposite for me. I hated the fact that John reenlisted into the military when he had promised Savannah the wait would only be one year. I thought the book's outcome was all John's fault for not obliging with Savannah's plea for him to stay. This made it hard for me to sympathize with John. So, I like the movie's ending better.


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Hi Kristen,

Fantastic points --- I've got a few to add.

Item #1 - I learned, a long time ago, not to get attached to the idea of an HEA ("happily ever after") ending when I read any book by Nicholas Sparks. It doesn't seem to be in his genetic makeup, generally, to have things end happily for everybody.

Item #2 - I read Dear John and then saw the movie and hated Savannah with all the passion I could possibly muster to hate someone, even if she is fictional. She struck me as a selfish, whiny, immature brat who demanded her own way and, when she didn't get it, ran out and got married to someone else just to spite John.

Item #3 - I'm passionately pro-military, and I saw John's decision to reenlist as an incredible decision, something that sacrificed his own happiness for the sake of his brothers-at-arms and for the sake of those (stateside) for whom he fought. If I ever meet a man so staunchly consistent, honorable, and full of integrity as John is, I'd be abjectly thrilled beyond words.

Further, I saw John as the victim. He and Savannah were close; he loved her deeply (never mind that I had absolutely no idea why he loved her, since he deserved much better than she could offer); they were going to stay together; when you're that much in love, you believe in the other person and trust the other person to stick with you, no matter what happens, and to be proud of your decisions and sacrifice for one another; he thought she'd do that when he reenlisted; instead, she pitched a tantrum like a three-year-old and played passive-aggressive and cheated on him with another man; and then she tried to seduce him and force him to tell her he still loved her when he finally came back and found her married to Tim.

Item #4 - Outside the immediate story, I resented the rhetoric at work in the novel: readers are supposed to feel sorry for Savannah, being "trapped" in a long-distance relationship (because *sarcasm alert* nobody has ever successfully survived a long-distance relationship and stayed together) and being "saddled" with a (devoted, honorable) soldier (when she knew from the very beginning that he was a soldier) who "abandoned" her, and then when she found out that Tim was dying ... well, obviously, she didn't have any other choice than to marry Tim and dump John.

Perhaps it's because I'm a generally contradictory person, but I disliked the attempt to manipulate my emotions in Savannah's favor, and I therefore disliked her character all the more because of it.

Thoughts?


Kelseyc I didn't like Savannah either for the reasons that you stated, so I agree with you on that note.

However, I appreciated that they didn't end up together because, hey, that's reality. Some people end up together and others don't. It was a nice change from the predictable they-end-up-together-like-they-always-do ending.

:)


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Kelseyc wrote: "I didn't like Savannah either for the reasons that you stated, so I agree with you on that note.

However, I appreciated that they didn't end up together because, hey, that's reality. Some people ..."


Fair enough --- I agree with you there, not only because the typical HEA ending has become a cliche and way overused today, especially in romance novels, but also because I felt gratified: John didn't have to put up with Savannah's childishness in other (potential) areas of their life together, if they had stayed together. There's something to be said for the way life intercedes and sometimes works in our favor!


message 22: by Shalini (last edited Jan 25, 2015 06:56AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Shalini Das I totally agree with you. Even after all the separation John's love for Savannah never dwindled. John and Tim both are excellent men in there own way. Tim was a in-born gentleman but John learnt from his experiences. The urge of becoming sober drove him into an awesome human being. He jumped into the sea for getting Savannah's bag without giving it a second thought. He patiently waited for Savannah to get over her stigma over sex. I bet no man would have ever done that and all John gets in return is his father being used as an experiment-material a bunch full of broken promises!? Savannah never deserved John.
And for Tim's part... She had always treated him as a second option. When there's no John there's Tim. Tim had literally babysitted Savannah all his life and he had this awesome sense of responsibility. He even tells John to marry Savannah after his dead and then Savannah is seen looking at the full moon in reminiscence of her ex-boyfriend when her husband is out of sight and is suffering from something as deadly as cancer.
Savannah is a complete childish lady with no clear intentions and motives. She literally uses both the men for her own needs.


Kristen Idalia wrote: "I didn't realize there were readers that disliked Savannah this much. It was completely opposite for me. I hated the fact that John reenlisted into the military when he had promised Savannah the wa..."

Don't take this personally, but are you freaking kidding me???
LOl
I don't remember if John actually promised Savannah that he wouldn't reenlist. He planned not to. But there was a national crisis and he would have been abandoning his 'brothers' by not sticking with them. What he did was honorable.
Poor baby Savannah had to wait a little longer? Alot of people had alot more to deal with. Death of a loved one, for example.
Even so, no one forced her to stick with him. That was more of a promise than John's. She said she'd wait for him. She lied because she was too immature and selfish to do it, and because she didn't really love him. Love doesn't demand. Love gives. Love waits.


message 24: by Kristen (last edited Jan 25, 2015 08:53PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kristen Eleanore wrote: "Hi Kristen,

Fantastic points --- I've got a few to add.

Item #1 - I learned, a long time ago, not to get attached to the idea of an HEA ("happily ever after") ending when I read any book by Nicho..."


I totally agree.

#1 - Ha! No kidding!

"If I ever meet a man so staunchly consistent, honorable, and full of integrity as John is, I'd be abjectly thrilled beyond words."

Right?! You hold on to that kind of man. You don't marry someone else because you might have to wait a while for the good one.


Kristen Kelseyc wrote: "I didn't like Savannah either for the reasons that you stated, so I agree with you on that note.

However, I appreciated that they didn't end up together because, hey, that's reality. Some people ..."


My problem wasn't really with the fact that they didn't wind up together - although I'm not thrilled about love stories where that is the case. If I'm reading a love story, I want it to actually be a love story.
My problem was more feeling like I wasted my time with the whole thing. I can handle sad endings. But even with ones like in A Walk to Remember, it wasn't completely sad. It's depressing because of what happens, but it was sweet and hopeful too. Landon was a totally different person for having met Jamie and he is able to move forward with real closure. You felt that the characters were deserving of the other's love.
In this one, John wasted everything on someone who wasn't the least bit deserving.
I can handle that as long as the character has some sort of redeeming moment, but there was nothing like that for Savannah.


Kristen Shalini wrote: "And for Tim's part... She had always treated him as a second option."

But she didn't really. That's what really bothered me about the fact that she married Tim. Aside from everything to do with John, I mean.
She never thought of him romantically at all. He was just there when John wasn't.
Which is a stupid reason to marry someone.
It's like, 'Well, since I can't be with the guy I actually want, how about we get married?!'
What was the rush?


Nadine Sutton Idalia wrote: "I didn't realize there were readers that disliked Savannah this much. It was completely opposite for me. I hated the fact that John reenlisted into the military when he had promised Savannah the wa..."
Its neither of their FAULTS, John wanted to leave the army but he felt obliged to stay in the wave of patriotism after the 9/11 attacks. Savanna thought she could cope and she couldn't. So she fell in love with another man. This happens in life. People cant handle a long distance relationship, and eventaually give up on it.


Nadine Sutton Shalini wrote: "I totally agree with you. Even after all the separation John's love for Savannah never dwindled. John and Tim both are excellent men in there own way. Tim was a in-born gentleman but John learnt fr..."
Have we read the same book?


message 29: by Bekah (new)

Bekah So far, I have only seen the movie, but I want to read the book! OH MY GOSH! Savannah was terrible! And Tim? He should not have done that to John.
I gotta be honest, I love a good ending to a romance movie, happy ending you know. But Savannah did not deserve John. She settled for Tim because she didn't have anything better. Then she totally cut John off of communication. Why did Savannah stop visiting John's dad? She left him all alone while John was away, she should have known that his dad would need help, or at least someone to share his coins with. She didn't even realize he had passed away. Shows how much she cared. She should have known. She should have checked in with his Dad every once in a while to see if he was okay if she actually cared about people with special needs that much. John was patience though. He had the courage to go on without her even though it hurt. I also don't like it that John reenlisted after he told Savannah he wouldn't, but he really had no choice. His squad was all reenlisting, and he couldn't leave his squad.
So as I said. I love a good ending, and this ending made me really sad and sort of made me feel empty, but Savannah did not deserve him, and hopefully john will find someone else.


Nadine Sutton She didn't live near his Dad, she was at college or starting her career. John did have a choice, albeit he wanted in the wave of patriotism after 9/11 to rejoin and to serve his country, but he was asking Savannah, who wanted him home, to wait for years. He did want to leave the army, and not stay there all his life so it wasn't as if he and Savannah had always agreed that she would be a military wife. She was lonely and like many women whose men were away, she fell in love with another man.


Kristen Nadine wrote: "She didn't live near his Dad, she was at college or starting her career. John did have a choice, albeit he wanted in the wave of patriotism after 9/11 to rejoin and to serve his country, but he was..."

John didn't ask her to be a military wife. He did ask her to wait, but she could have said no. She knew what she was signing up for at that point. At the very least she could have been honest and told him she was tired of waiting and was moving on. You know, before she was basically on her honeymoon.

But no, she didn't love Tim. He was just convenient. If she loved him, she wouldn't have tried to cheat on him while he was dying in the hospital.


Nadine Sutton She didn't do any of this, read the book.


message 33: by Tanya (new)

Tanya Zbitnew I actually think it was kind of creepy of Tim moving in on Savannah when John was fighting a war, especially since he's much older than Savannah and was more like a mooch who hung around the family. He courted Savannah under the guise of needing someone to look after Alan, but hey, where are the grandparents? Why can't they look after Alan once Tim got sick? Doesn't Tim have any family? Brothers, Uncles, Cousins? It's pretty selfish of Tim to throw this burden on Savannah, knowing she would take it because of the type of person she is. Plus he's a perve, going after the much younger Savannah, even her parents didn't approve. John was a better match by far.


Nadine Sutton None of this is the case. Why do people not read the book?


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