A Feast for Crows (A Song of Ice and Fire, #4) A Feast for Crows discussion

Margaery and Catherine of Aragon

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Celise As I was reading this book, the similarites between Margaery Tyrell and Catherine of Aragon, first wife of Henry the eighth suddenly struck me. Both married princes who died shortly after their wedding. After Arthur's death, Catherine then married his younger brother Henry. Where I'm at in a Feast for Crows, the plan is for Margaery to marry Joffrey's younger brother Tommen. Was this an intentional parallel on George R.R. Martin's part? I know the series is loosely (very loosely) based off of the War of the Roses. What other similarities in plots and characters are there to that time period? I'm not nearly as familiar with it as I am with the reign of Henry VIII and Catherine, which Margaery's story seems to be following.

message 2: by Ian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ian It is quite possible that was an inspiration. Many characters in the book seem to have been history inspired. Joffrey's sadism and domination by a manipulative mother seem Nero inspired, while Daenerys's fervent stand against slavery and her killing of slave masters and causing of mass unrest seem John Brown inspired.

message 3: by Mitali (last edited Mar 19, 2013 12:08AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mitali I don't know is GRRM was specifically inspired by Catherine of Aragon's story, though it's possible, of course, and there are certainly parallels. But in general, in a medieval-style world - whether in reality or in the ASoIaF world - where women are considered bargaining chips for sealing alliances between dynasties, I assume such situations occur quite frequently. That is, when one king/prince/lord dies unexpectedly, his widow is married off to the next one in line, usually the dead one's brother. After all, the same thing happened to Catelyn - she was betrothed to Brandon Stark when he died, so she married his brother. Since it's the alliance that's important, it doesn't matter which brother the woman ultimately marries.

Marina wrote: "If you'll read further on, you'll see that her plot is both like Catherine and Anne Boleyn."

Good point. Though Margaery's original situation is like Catherine's, her plot is more like Anne Boleyn's. I do hope her ultimate fate is not like poor Anne's, though.

Celise Ya, I hope you're not giving me a spoiler about Margaery being beheaded. I think it's kind of ironic that Natalie Dormer who plays Margaery also played Anne Boleyn in the Tudors, where she is very much against Catherine.

Celise I was just watching the final episode of season 2 with the commentary by Emilia Clarke (Dany) and the director, who said that the speech Theon gives to his men before Winterfell is taken back from him is in the style of Edward V.

message 6: by Ian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ian Do you mean Henry V?

Celise Oops, yes, sorry. I was re-reading one of the posts above which mentioned Edward IV so I borrowed the Edward.

The commentator said "It's basically his Henry the Fifth scene with a twist at the end." Not sure what that means, but there it is!

message 8: by Mitali (last edited Mar 19, 2013 11:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mitali Celise wrote: "The commentator said "It's basically his Henry the Fifth scene with a twist at the end." Not sure what that means, but there it is! "

That refers to the St. Crispin's Day Speech in Shakespeare's play Henry V. To quote from Wikipedia:
'The play introduced the famous St. Crispin's Day Speech; Shakespeare has Henry give a moving narration to his soldiers just before the battle, urging his "band of brothers" to stand together in the forthcoming fight. One of Shakespeare's most heroic speeches, critic David Margolies describes how it "oozes honour, military glory, love of country and self-sacrifice", and it forms one of the first instances of English literature linking solidarity and comradeship to success in battle.'

Of course, in the play Henry doesn't get bonked on the head by his own men! ;)

Celise Thank you for that information Mitali, and for the link Marina.

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