Gillifans discussion

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Shane > Hate Shane?

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message 1: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
I'm not giving a Love Shane option, but feel free to add your own if you so wish!


message 2: by Macky (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments Nasty daddy... But he does seem to have his supporters! To be honest I don't know why! I have many issues with that man and non of them are good but Gilli loves him and I think that's what drives the books and pulls your heartstrings. In a grudging way I would have to say without Shane the books wouldn't have the emotional punch they do so I guess we do need him! I'd still love to give him a ' red arse tanning' as well though!


message 3: by Tina (new)

Tina (whitemooony) Yes, that's exactly the point. Without Shane the books wouldn't have the emotional punch they do now.
And - like I said in the Dick thread - he knows his Gilli inside out. He knows how to take the bratty self of our houseboy and Gilli craves his authority. Remember, that's part of their self-chosen lifestyle!


message 4: by Z. (new)

Z. (ladyzora) | 13 comments Gilli would run all over a softer Daddy, and Shane knows it. I think for Gilli he really is a sort of father figure, a pater familias in a way. Gilli needs that kind of male authority figure since he grew up without a father;it's probably why he prefers older men in general. I think he craves the control, the firm boundaries. At the same time, Shane needs to exert that kind of control in his relationships as well.


message 5: by Fangtasia (new)

Fangtasia | 8 comments There is one, and only one, thing Shane does to Gilli which I think is unforgivable: not telling Gilli he loves him. It is obvious that he does, but he withholds the words in order to retain absolute power over Gilli.

Because the day Gilli hears those words from Shane's mouth, the dynamic in the relationship changes.


message 6: by Susan (new)

Susan | 7 comments I used to be completely convinced that Shane loved Gilli but I think the events in Achilles made me doubt that just a little. I was so angry with Shane after that book.


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

Damn I can see I lose a lot by not having read the books and Shane seem to get on my hate list from what you are telling, why do Gilli stay in this?!?


message 8: by Tina (last edited Mar 19, 2013 11:30AM) (new)

Tina (whitemooony) Helle wrote: "Damn I can see I lose a lot by not having read the books and Shane seem to get on my hate list from what you are telling, why do Gilli stay in this?!?"

Because he loves Shane and Dick and he craves this kind of relationship. It's not the usual D/s thing we know from other stories. It's a lifestyle that gives Gilli the security he needs. He lives out his submissive nature without wanting the pain component.

Of course he gets the pain, too... :D


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Tina wrote: "Helle wrote: "Damn I can see I lose a lot by not having read the books and Shane seem to get on my hate list from what you are telling, why do Gilli stay in this?!?"

Because he loves Shane and Dic..."


Ok now I understand some of the reasons why, thank you for telling me this and I really need to buy this serie next month, so I can understand all the things you are talking about :-) Dick is he so one of the persons/Masters that you like/love?!? D/s in a different way need to read about that :-)


message 10: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Helle wrote: "Damn I can see I lose a lot by not having read the books and Shane seem to get on my hate list from what you are telling, why do Gilli stay in this?!?"

Helle, I can see the appeal of Shane for Gilli - I guess he is some kind of substitute father figure. At the beginning of the series, I was partly won over by Shane, but as time went on (and especially in Achilles) I felt that Shane is deliberately cruel and it would take an awful lot to make up for it.

I also don't think Shane understands what makes Gilli tick, he could avoid a lot of hassle for himself if he took time to take care of Gilli's needs (however ridiculous they may seem to him.)

There are Shane fans {Danni looks behind the sofa - hi Tina!} but IMO Shane doesn't deserve Gilli.

It will be very interesting to see your take on it when you read the books :)


message 11: by [deleted user] (new)

Danni wrote: "Helle wrote: "Damn I can see I lose a lot by not having read the books and Shane seem to get on my hate list from what you are telling, why do Gilli stay in this?!?"

Helle, I can see the appeal of..."


I have a lot to looking forward to when I read the books, and I do not know if I be a Shane fan or not, but after what you are telling me, I am sure I will hate him really fast and I want to protect Gilli


message 12: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Helle wrote: "Ok now I understand some of the reasons why, thank you for telling me this and I really need to buy this serie next month, so I can understand all the things you are talking about :-) Dick is he so one of the persons/Masters that you like/love?!? D/s in a different way need to read about that :-)"

Dick is in the middle - he tops and bottoms, and is dominant to Gilli but submissive to Shane. He is fun and cuddly and he tells Gilli he loves him, so he's easier to love than Shane. I won't go into what I don't like about Dick because it'll get confusing unless you've read the books.


message 13: by Tina (new)

Tina (whitemooony) LOL I'm not a Shane fan... no, not at all.
But I don't hate him either.

Yes, he has his moments, but so has Gilli. And like I said earlier, Gilli loves his Daddies and his Daddies love him. In their own way...


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Danni wrote: "Helle wrote: "Ok now I understand some of the reasons why, thank you for telling me this and I really need to buy this serie next month, so I can understand all the things you are talking about :-)..."

I think I would love Dick, even if there is something I would not like about him, he seem more nice to me from what you have told me, but Shane I know I would hate. Gilli is the one I want to protect and love the most :-)


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Tina wrote: "LOL I'm not a Shane fan... no, not at all.
But I don't hate him either.

Yes, he has his moments, but so has Gilli. And like I said earlier, Gilli loves his Daddies and his Daddies love him. In th..."


I understand that Tina, and will take that into my decision when I read the books :-)


message 16: by Macky (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments Hi Helle... Whatever you end up feeling about Shane you'll still end up loving the series. I don't like Shane at all, there are so many things that I can't forgive him for but as I said in an earlier comment, the books wouldn't be the same without him. Its the Shane/Gilli battles that get your emotional juices going and what endear you so much to Gilli. I've only just finished them all but I could start them all over again now we've got our group... I lost my heart to Gilli on the first page of the first book and he took it with gem when I'd finished the last. :)


message 17: by A.B. (new)

A.B. Gayle (abgayle) | 18 comments Fangtasia wrote: "There is one, and only one, thing Shane does to Gilli which I think is unforgivable: not telling Gilli he loves him. It is obvious that he does, but he withholds the words in order to retain absolu..."
Spot on, Fang as usual :)


message 18: by Annika (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments I'm not convinced Shane loves Gilli at all and that's also why he won't tell him what he wishes most. So credits to Shane he does not lie to Gilli but I think he's not telling him the truth about their relationship either. He may be sexually attracted to him and in case he behaves according to Shanes standards he kind of likes him but that's all. Why do I think so? I pieced following theory together, would be interessted to get to know your opinion. I was wondering from the beginning about Dicks roll as Dom as well as Sub, it was kind of confusing to me for the beginning. OK, but he's obviously a switch, longing to live out his Dom side from time to time after ten years of being only Sub to Shane. How could that work without endangering the deep and loving releationship between Shane and Dick (which definitely exists). Well, take on a young sub Dick can "play with". Add him into the relationship in a way that Shane keeps total control so in case no. 3 would in any kind endanger what he has with Dick he can interfere. Thisvway he indulges Dick and does not threaten their relationship by Dick going to fullfill his needs behind his back endangering their relationship.
Some things that make me think so. In Achilles Leo says: "you should boot his arse out and ban Dick from aquiring another pet,..."
Whenever Gilli goes with one Daddy on a weekend trip it's with Dick, he's Dicks boy toy.
Shane never denies or sets someone right who actually says Gilli is no real partner in the relationship. Even badmouthing Gilli is not corrected. Whenever Gilli askes if he likes him he does not get a positive a answer. When Gilli states Shane obviously really never liked him he does not correct him in any way.
The CP ceremony as such - Shane and Dick both claim it's forbidden to ask in a threesome who you love best. A CP is a definite statement of who you love best. And Shane didn't want to have Gilli there actually. He's only there bencause Shane again indulges Dick. In case Gilli would really be an equal partner and the CP would mean NOTHING apart from legal statuses, why not wanting Gilli there and not telling him so up front.
The birthday present incident for Dick, when Gilli got Dick the racing car test drive thing. I think in this situation Shane felt outplayed by Gilli in regards of the best present and so he thought up the money excuse to chastise Gilli for this present.
Birthday presents in general: Dick receives very personal and well thought out presents, while Gilli a joined present (collar) from both of them or going with both of them for a holiday. Different category to Dicks presents in my opinion.
Shane is definitely able to show affection and love, just look at how he shows Dick. But regarding Gilli it's all about, he shouldn't be so gready and satisfied with what he gets.

I think Shane indulges Dick in regard to Gilli to not loose Dick, whom he deeply loves. And I'm sure he'd cut Gilly of and boot him out of the house without a second of hesitation in case he'd fear he endangers what he has with Dick. He does not love Gilli in my opinion. He might like him from time to time but mainly I think he feels a certain responsibility to him because he took him in, but there isn't more. That's why he also totally ignores Gillis emotional needs, he does not want to lie to him but telling the truth about what he means would send him packing and upsetting Dick and therefore be a problem in regard of their relationship.

What do you think? D oes that sound plausible to you?


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Macky wrote: "Hi Helle... Whatever you end up feeling about Shane you'll still end up loving the series. I don't like Shane at all, there are so many things that I can't forgive him for but as I said in an earl..."

Hi Macky, I know that I will love the serie and I agree with you in that, but Gilli I am sure I would love and want to protect, but Shane maybe I will hate him, maybe not. Only time will see what I will decide to that time :-) Dirk I think I will like.


message 20: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Annika wrote: "I'm not convinced Shane loves Gilli at all and that's also why he won't tell him what he wishes most. So credits to Shane he does not lie to Gilli but I think he's not telling him the truth about t..."

I've gotta say Annika, I agree with almost everything you've said. Shane indulges Dick's need to have a 'pet' and although I do think Shane has some affection for Gilli and certainly sexual attraction, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is love.

I've been thinking about this idea that Shane is the Dom and that he must be in control at all times, but I personally think he lacks an understanding of the way Gilli's mind works. Shane is a 'snap out of it' kind of guy, and he can't comprehend that Gilli lacks the ability to do that. There are so many different ways of being in charge (think of all the different ways people bring up their kids) and Shane simply maintaining control doesn't IMO mean he is doing it the best way.


message 21: by Annika (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments Hey dani,

I agree, Shane does not do a great job as Dom regarding Gilli. It may be some an inability to comprehend Gilli as you say but I'm not so sure. There is this incident with Dick speeding in Gilliflowers. We later find out that it's due to a former Dom contacting him with whom he does not want to associate anymore. We are left to puzzle over what really happened between them but definitely something unpleasant. And immediately Shane is capable of emotional support for Dick. As well as he was when Dick's uncle Eddy died. So he's not some totally unemotional person and while he understood Dicks' upset over the death of his uncle I can't understand why he throws such a tantrum about an expensive Christmas card for Gillis terminally ill mother. I wonder if he just does not care about how Gilli feels. It's all filed under bratty tantrum, it does not matter what it is about.
I don't know, I really came to hate Shane because he just so ignores Gillis needs. At the end of Achilles I wanted to bundle Gilli up and if necessary forcibly remove him from this house... I mean, come on, that epilogue? Shane manages to make Gilli believe that all problems are caused by him and his selfish, bratty and WHATEVER ;-) behaviour. So not true!


message 22: by Macky (last edited Mar 21, 2013 12:34PM) (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments My main problem with Shane is his reluctance to give Gilli the type of love and affection he affords Dick and his callous way of making Gilli feel like his jealousy is petty. I know they bang on about the fact that they've been in a relationship a lot longer than the threesome they now have but that shouldn't even be an issue. Its like adopting children, lets say you've adopted a child who you grow to love, telling them so every day over a long time so they feel safe and cherished, then a lot later you take another child into the fold. Would you never tell that second child you loved them, expect them to just know it and then get annoyed because they're jealous when you tell the other " i love you" but not them? No - as a responsible loving parent you'd love that child equally and tell them that they're loved just as much as their sibling, because love is unconditional not metered out to keep someone under the thumb and that's what Shane does. He plays the " I'm the daddy so I'm doing this for your own good " card which is all well and good in terms of looking after Gilli Physically and health wise but the way he treats Gillis emotional needs is sadly lacking so in my opinion he can't truly love Gilli, therefore making Gillis Jealousies valid and his tantrums understandable. Three little words ... If you can't say it ( and granted not everyone finds it easy) then at least try and show it in other ways, just don't flaunt your feelings for someone else in their face and then get ratty and overly dominant because they get upset!


message 23: by Annika (last edited Mar 21, 2013 12:40PM) (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments I 150% agree with you Macky! I'd like to add that what makes it even worse for me is that both, Shane and Dick are lying to Gilli telling him he's an equal partner while he's far from being so. They are both hypocrites I'm afraid to say.


message 24: by Z. (new)

Z. (ladyzora) | 13 comments Annika wrote: "I'm not convinced Shane loves Gilli at all and that's also why he won't tell him what he wishes most. So credits to Shane he does not lie to Gilli but I think he's not telling him the truth about t..."

You know, that makes a lot of sense to me. If Disk wants to play around a bit, Shane is right there to keep an eye on Dick, who is his priority. I do agree with Danni that there is affection there, but there's no question who is the third wheel.
I guess the question remains what need does this relationship meet for Gilli? He loves his Daddies, but I wonder if he is beginning to see the reality of the situation after the CP.


message 25: by Annika (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments Z. wrote: "Annika wrote: "I'm not convinced Shane loves Gilli at all and that's also why he won't tell him what he wishes most. So credits to Shane he does not lie to Gilli but I think he's not telling him th..."

I think he does start to recognize it but does not want to acknowledge it. Somewhere he muses if affection is enough if he can't get love. Later he convinces himself that affection is actually more then love...
Yes, he loves his Daddies - I only wonder how much of his love is based in the Dom part to which he so strongly reacts. Would he love another Dom the same way if he changed Daddies. I'm almost tempted to say yes, especially in regards to Shane. There is a deeper bond with Dick, how they pull pranks together sometimes and such, so this is a more difficult question.


message 26: by Julie (new)

Julie | 27 comments I am snivveling over the scene in book 4
Where Shane waltzes Gilly around the kitchen to Lisa Stanfield's
"been around the world."

Gah! I do like Shane, despite how harsh he can be.


message 27: by Tina (new)

Tina (whitemooony) Julie wrote: "I am snivveling over the scene in book 4
Where Shane waltzes Gilly around the kitchen to Lisa Stanfield's
"been around the world."

Gah! I do like Shane, despite how harsh he can be."


Aww... I'm not alone anymore. Welcome on the dark side...


message 28: by Jenny (last edited Apr 16, 2013 03:17AM) (new)

Jenny | 30 comments I have a love/hate relationship with Shane. I do think that he is the rock, the solid foundation in the relationship. Dick and Gilli need him. Dick has many faults and is the middle man dom/sub is exactly what he is. Dick has a gambling habit that without Shane could easily explode into gambling addiction. So if it had just been Dick and Gilli they would falter into many vices. Shane is too rigid and Dick helps him soften some of his edges. Which leads me to Gilli, whom besides adding youth and spontaneity to their lives he is not really needed. Shane probably thinks the same thing therefore he never expresses to Gilli how he feels. It is always Dick who assures Gilli that he is loved and valued. Every time Gilli feels left out my heart breaks for him. "That kiss" that Gilli witnessed in Achilles made my heart bleed and I felt the pain and heartbreak because in the 2 to 3 years that he had been with them they had never kissed him like that. He had a right to be jealous, because he felt that he loved them more than they loved him. Shane was cold and callous in not wanting Gilli be a part of the CP ceremony. If Gilli had been included in the decision and discussion that lead to the CP ceremony he probably would have handled it better. Instead he was told as a last minute thought because Dick had wanted it NOT Shane. There are some sweet moments that I love Shane for, because as a man who is not very demonstrative it had a bigger impact than sweet moments with Dick. Most of the other times I just hate Shane. By book 4 Gilliflowers I really want Leo to make his play for Gilli. I mean I think Dick would not be able to take it if he never sees Gilli again, because I think Dick really likes Gilli just for himself regardless if they are in a relationship or not. Gilli is young and Shane & Dick is his first real realtionship, but like first boyfriends/girlfriends they are part of life and not necessarily lasting. Leo is the same age as Shane and does not have anyone permanent, maybe Gilli might turn out to be the love of his life. just saying


message 29: by Annika (last edited Apr 16, 2013 07:14AM) (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments Jenny wrote: "I have a love/hate relationship with Shane. I do think that he is the rock, the solid foundation in the relationship. Dick and Gilli need him. Dick has many faults and is the middle man dom/sub ..."

I wanted to bundle Gilli up at the end of book 4 as well and if necessary forcibly remove him from Shane and Dick.
I agree totally with you on the CP thing. For me there was another moment I could only shake my head in disbelief. After Gilli mentioned to move out and the "solution between him and Shane" all Dick mentions when he comes home is how cold he dare to bite Shane. No word about Gilli and moving out or his feelings why he wanted to. Just total ignorance.
Regarding Leo, well I agree someone else would be better for Gilli. Someone who fulfills not only his sub needs but also his emotional needs. Is the right on Leo? Maybe... But I recall Gilli mentioning that Leo is to hardcore for him. Don't know if he would tone it down for him...

P.S. but as Tina wrote somewhere, the books wouldn't have such an emotional impact if Shane wouldn't be Shane...


message 30: by Macky (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments I'm sorry girls but as much as I try to picture Leo and Gilli together it just doesn't compute at all for me. Leo is just as much an arse as Shane and if Gilli were to venture into another relationship I would hope it would be with someone completely free of Shane and Dicks circle. I don't think that's ever going happen though because however much we grouch about his treatment, Gilli loves his two daddies and I don't think he'll ever stop. My hope is that somewhere down the line in this relationship , as much as Shanes character pees me off, Gilli gets his declaration (view spoiler) . I want Gilli to be happy and if his daddies wake up and smell the coffee then one day he truly will be.


message 31: by Tere (new)

Tere (tere_tere) | 9 comments I haven't read book 4, but reading Gilli's online diary is painfully obvious that Shane hasn't said those three words, but that, actually, is much more than what many people do, which means proclaiming love without really meaning it. Shane is way too rigid and that's both good and bad at times, but not lying feelings is actually the GOOD thing to do.

I've read a couple times people saying that Shane was "jealous" of Gilli's present to Dick and that never fails to make me snort because Shane very clearly states why he's not amused with the second present: Gilli doesn't save money, spends it very quickly (and it advance) and while that's well in his rights, Shane is the ultimate responsible about finances in the house. Just like Dick's gambling addiction.

Yeah, Shane may not love Gilli in the same way Dick does, but he cares, and his rules and punishments are random or gratuitously cruel, they're done with Gilli in mind. Is Shane way too inflexible and uptight? hell yeah, that's his biggest fault but hey, he's only human at the end of the day.

That's my biggest problem with any kind of Discipline relationships in general. I don't enjoy reading about them very much (except when the narrator is as interesting and perky as Gilli), basically because I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of giving a person the right to choose/punish/discipline another person, after all we're all human, flawed, biased humans. Those relationships aren't "fair" (they're not supposed to be, either), the bottom cannot 'punish' the top being the clearest example. I know people who lives on those relationships chose to be part of it, and that's cool, I'm not judging any of them, it's just me not comfortable reading fiction/non-fiction about discipline.


message 32: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Tere wrote: "I haven't read book 4, but reading Gilli's online diary is painfully obvious that Shane hasn't said those three words, but that, actually, is much more than what many people do, which means proclai..."

The thing that I find unforgivable for Shane is not imposing his rules and regulations on Gilli (after all, that's the nature of their relationship) but the fact that he withholds affection from Gilli. I don't see why he needs to do that in order to maintain control in the relationship.

Maybe it's wrong but I guess I see it in terms of a parent's role. Parents should be the ones in charge, the ones who make the rules for the good of the family, BUT this can only work if it is balanced with love and affection and if it isn't then IMO it is a failure on their part. Parents don't lose control by loving their children and telling them so.


message 33: by Macky (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments Agreed Danni. That's my argument. You don't deny love to keep a child under control you give love to make that child feel safe and protected. Shane is essentially in a parental role. Gilli the child. Shane shouldn't have to lie about his feelings but if he can't really give that love to Gilli , should he really have agreed to let Gilli into the relationship he had with Dick? It seems to me he was indulging Dick because he loves Dick.


message 34: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Macky wrote: " It seems to me he was indulging Dick because he loves Dick.
"


Don't we all....


message 35: by Macky (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments Haha! we certainly do...


message 36: by Sara (new)

Sara (hambel) | 27 comments Shane may not show Gilli as much affection as he does with Dick, but when he does it makes Gilli feel safe and secure. In Book 4 (where I felt Shane and Dick were at their harshest - and most of that due to Gilli's stubbornness) Shane tells Gilli off when they're at Penny's and then opens up his arms for a hug. On Firework night he lays down with Gilli and plays silly games to the sound of the fireworks. I loved it when he tickled Gilli (when he came home after his birthday) as that shows a playful side to Shane that we rarely see.

Shane isn't perfect but none of them are and that's one of the reasons they make for great reading :)


message 37: by Macky (last edited Apr 28, 2013 04:01AM) (new)

Macky (mactut) | 142 comments I see what you're saying Hambel and its true Shane does have his moments but they're very spasmodic and few and far between. Its not shared out equally enough to make Gilli feel that Shane's love is as all encompassing with him as it is with Dick. Gilli wants more of Shanes attention and like a naughty child he'll get the attention by being a pain and defying Shane. If negative attention is the only way to get Shane to focus on him then Gilli will play up. So bits and bats of attention thrown in every now and again doesn't impress me that much. I want to see Gilli getting equal amounts of love and affection that the other two share and very often in front of Gilli whilst he looks on from the sidelines. Wouldn't you be jealous and feel left out..... I would, its human nature! :) you're right though it does make a great read. :D


message 38: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Hambel wrote: "Shane may not show Gilli as much affection as he does with Dick, but when he does it makes Gilli feel safe and secure. In Book 4 (where I felt Shane and Dick were at their harshest - and most of th..."

OK, I'm just going to admit it. I CAN'T FORGIVE Shane for the CP stuff and everything about my judgement on him is clouded by that. That, to me was like 'the affair' of the relationship - something that has happened, can't be unhappened, and although it can be (in people more forgiving than me) forgiven, won't be forgotten.

I know that Shane gives Gilli affection (sometimes) but all of it (for me) is tainted by the cruelty of the CP. I don't even remember some of the things mentioned (like fireworks night or the tickling) because in the back of my mind the CP will always be there.

Yep, I tend to hold grudges - can you tell?


message 39: by Danni, Spoogegirl / Mrs Brown (new)

Danni | 136 comments Mod
Macky wrote: "I see what you're saying Hambel and its true Shane does have his moments but they're very spasmodic and few and far between. Its not shared out equally enough to make Gilli feel that Shane's love i..."

I do think it's the 'not shared out equally' thing that is wrong. Yes, Shane is supposed to be in charge of Gilli, but it's easy to forget that he's also in charge of Dick. Why is it that he can show his love to Dick and the dynamics of their relationship aren't affected, but with Gilli he can't?

To go back to the whole parenting thing, Shane is 'in charge' of both Dick and Gilli, BUT the vast majority of his love and affection goes to Dick. Parents might not always treat their children in exactly the same way (being as they're different people with different needs) but surely they should love their children equally?


message 40: by Tere (new)

Tere (tere_tere) | 9 comments As I said, I haven't read book 4 but I really don't believe Shane isn't more affective because he feels he's gonna lose authority, but simply because he's not like that. I hate to justify his actions because I love getting and giving attention, but, as even Gilli has pointed, they (Shane and Dick) has been together longer.

It would be an interesting question for Dick to ask him about the beginning of his relationship with Shane. Was it a D/s one, a Daddy/boy one, a vanilla one? how long until they were telling they loved each other? was Dick proclaming his love before than Shane? Was he too rough at the beginning as well?

I love Gilli and he makes me go al motherly protective over him, but it is unfair to compare Dick and Shane's relationship to what Gilli has now. Do I wish Shane could be more affective towards Gilli? Hands down YES, but I really appreciate the tender moments Gilli and Shane share, especially those spontaneous from Shane's part. (no English corrector on my cellphone so apologies for horrendous grammar here)


message 41: by Annika (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments Tere wrote: "As I said, I haven't read book 4 but I really don't believe Shane isn't more affective because he feels he's gonna lose authority, but simply because he's not like that. I hate to justify his actio..."

Well, yes, Shane and Dick have more history, BUT, they took Gilli into the threesome as an equal partner. Or so they stress at least - Dick does tell Gilli he loves him, and does so as well in Shanes name! They always scold Gilli when he asks whom one of them likes more (rightly so) but I think Gilli always asks when he feels most unloved (by Shane mainly).
But I'm rambling, what I wanted to say is, they Gilli in and with it they also accepted a responsibility. While I might not always consider everything as fair, a D/s relationship is/must (in my opinion) be based on respect and love for each other. Especially, when the sexual aspect is included. Otherwise it would be or come close to abuse. That's why some people feel Gilli is more considered the servant with benefits. It's what Leo hints at more then once in regard to Shane. It sure feels to me like that as well more often than not. Once Dick mentioned, Gilli has to earn the words "I love you" from Shane and that's something I,on the one hand wonder how he should accomplish this because when he's extra good he doesn't earn more affection than when he's not. On the other hand, I generally do not agree with it that love needs to be earned. Either you love someone for the person he is or you don't. You can earn other things, like respect f.e. but love?


message 42: by Amber (new)

Amber | 5 comments Like most, I don't like Shane but I sometimes wonder if part of it is because we don't see the whole picture. Not just in POV but moments in Gilli's life that we miss. A lot of the entries focus on bad parts of Gilli's life yet alot of the good moments are glossed over in a few sentences. There just isn't enough good to balance out the bad. That being said I don't think he is a good Dom for Gilli. There are just too many times where he doesn't communicate with Gilli. Most of the time it is do what I say or get spanked. Any objection even heartfelt ones that are really important to Gilli are met with "Your being childish/bratty/spoiled". There are these moments in the book where Shane seems to have insight into Gilli then turns around and shows he has no clue that Gilli need attention and affection to be stable. Gilli is honest to a fault with his Dom's and when he safeword in Gilliflowers and Shane said he couldn't safeword I was appalled.

Achilles and the Houseboy was just awfully in the fact none of Gilli's insecurities where handle in any way other than scorn. He has a right to be concerned. I think Dick would have handle it differently but Shane put a stop to it. Dick and Shane talk about it from a legal stand point and safeguarding their assets. But what safeguards are there for Gilli? What happens if both of them die together? Very possible considering they do lots of thing together leaving Gilli out. Neither Dick or Shane's families like Gilli so where does that leave him? How are his Dom's protecting him? The CP just for legal doesn't hold up because it still leaves Gilli potentially out in the cold literally. It also reinforces the belief the Gilli isn't really a part of the relationship. Dragging Gilli to the CP dirty and unprepared was way beyond insensitive, it was cruel. Not to mention including Leo who obviously didn't get what Shane was supposedly going for and couldn't keep quiet another bad mark for Shane.

I also don't like the fact that EVERYBODY can be rude, insulting, condescending, and just plain horrible to Gilli and Gilli can't defend himself without Shane spanking him. It shows a big lack in Shane that he continually lets this go on with his friends and family while continually putting Gilli in a situation for it to happen then disciplining him when things go bad. Shane's defense of that making Gilli interact with these people shows he isn't ashamed of Gilli doesn't fly when he doesn't protect his sub from verbal/emotional abuse from others.

I don't like Shane but I also think that make the books good. It gives them an emotional punch that keeps me coming back even if my kindle is in danger of being thrown across the room at times.


message 43: by Annika (new)

Annika (annikac) | 34 comments Amber wrote: "Like most, I don't like Shane but I sometimes wonder if part of it is because we don't see the whole picture. Not just in POV but moments in Gilli's life that we miss. A lot of the entries focus ..."

Yes, yes and yes. Totally agree with everything!


message 44: by Z. (new)

Z. (ladyzora) | 13 comments Amber wrote: "Like most, I don't like Shane but I sometimes wonder if part of it is because we don't see the whole picture. Not just in POV but moments in Gilli's life that we miss. A lot of the entries focus ..."

You're absolutely right! I like Shane, but I don't love him, and you just pinpointed the reasons perfectly!


message 45: by Sara (new)

Sara (hambel) | 27 comments I was out shopping today and came across the perfect Christmas pressie for Shane. Something to wear around the house...



To Shane with love from Dick and Gilli xx


message 46: by Cheryl (new)

Cheryl | 301 comments Hi all - I'm new to Gilli discussions. I've read the first three books - trying to pace myself because I love them SO much, I want to make them last. I decided to weigh in on the Shane discussion because my feelings about Shane shifted dramatically after reading Achilles - and I'm going to be in the minority here, because they shifted from feeling he was merely tolerating Gilli to feeling that he cares very much for him. Actually, Gilli came to the same conclusions I had reached. I went back and reread the first three books again, and stand by my conclusions. Here are my reasons. First - I can't imagine Shane indulging ANYONE, not even Dick, if he wasn't making the commitment himself. I think, as an experienced Dom, he recognized what Gilly needed, and made a commitment to provide it. I think Dick was instrumental in getting Shane to let Gilli have (and keep) the job as houseboy, but they didn't invite him into the relationship until he had worked there a year (I think I have that right). By that time, Shane certainly knew what he was signing up for - and I REALLY don't think he would have indulged Dick that far.

Actually, I think Shane is better for Gilli than Dick in some ways. In the first book - the story of Whatever - Shane tells Gilli that once his mind starts spinning out of control, the only way to stop him is by sticking a spoke in the wheel. Shane seems to recognize when Gilli is heading in that direction - and Gilli does that a lot - and Shane definitely sticks a spoke in the wheel. Dick is more indulgent. I think one of the reasons is because Dick is a sub, and the Dom role is new for him. He probably identifies with Gilli as a sub, which is good in some ways, but not so good in others.


message 47: by Cheryl (new)

Cheryl | 301 comments One thought I wanted to finish up. In Achilles, after Gilli bit Shane (and was punished), Shane carried Gilli up to the bedroom and held him in his arms, and explained for the umpteenth time that the CP Dick and he had entered was exactly what he had said - not a declaration of eternal love - but a way of simplifying things if one of the main breadwinners died. And then he reassured Gilli that nothing had changed - they were still 3 men (well 2 men and a big baby - Shane's words, not mine) trying to make a go of a relationship that most sane people would stay far away from. Shane could give Gilli the boot at any time, but he doesn't. And I don't think he'd keep Gilli around just to indulge Dick - Leo's comment not withstanding (that Gilli is Dick's pet). Leo's almost as bad as Penny - who I truly LOATHE.


message 48: by Karen (new)

Karen | 79 comments I have to agree with you on every single point you've made. I think Shane indeed does recognize what Gilli needs and is not afraid to provide it. Gillis head does spin out of control and he often does need to be reigned in. I love that Gilli lets us in and isn't ashamed or embarrassed. I do want to be his friend! Do you think Shane and Dick lets Gilli entertain his friends at the house? I've never read anything about Gilli having friends his own age at the "quasi-mansion".


message 49: by Karen (new)

Karen | 79 comments I have to agree with you on every single point you've made. I think Shane indeed does recognize what Gilli needs and is not afraid to provide it. Gillis head does spin out of control and he often does need to be reigned in. I love that Gilli lets us in and isn't ashamed or embarrassed. I do want to be his friend! Do you think Shane and Dick lets Gilli entertain his friends at the house? I've never read anything about Gilli having friends his own age at the "quasi-mansion".


message 50: by Vivian (new)

Vivian I agree Cheryl and Karen. Shane gets to be bad cop and Dick gets to be a good time guy, so yeah, he looks like an A hole. My main gripe, and I understand that Shane is this way because of age and personality, but he sometimes doesn't appreciate how sensitive Gilly is.

Shane doesn't have to baby Gilly, but sometimes understanding and saying so while saying 'no' doesn't diminish your authority. He needs a velvet glove for that iron fist.


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