The Fault in Our Stars
discussion
If you liked this book, this discussion probably isn't for you.
I agree with you. My reaction when I finished the book was pretty frustrated and passionately negative, but it's mellowed off into "meh." My big problem with the characters wasn't that they were clever - I quite like clever teens. Nay, it was because they were pretentious. I'm tired of people who talk about how DEEP they are and how SMART they are, and although they might have some intelligent attributes, they really aren't all that bright. The smartest people I know are very humble about their brilliance, and they don't degrade other people who might not be as "smart" as them. They certainly don't make fun of people who want to go to Disney World or people who try to find comfort in phrases and things that might be considered cliche.One other thing that bothered me was the egging of Issac's girlfriend's house. Breaking up with Isaac was wrong, sure, but egging her house wasn't a very mature thing to do, nor did it make me like the characters. If our characters are so gosh damn clever, then maybe they should take the moral high ground, and just leave the girl alone.
Well, for one they were written by the same writer. So, similarities should be expected. And teenagers are all but capeable enough to be that clever. Don't get so butthurt about it.
Zoee wrote: "Well, for one they were written by the same writer. So, similarities should be expected. And teenagers are all but capeable enough to be that clever. Don't get so butthurt about it."I'm not saying they're not. I'm sixteen myself. But the idea that all of Green's characters being that clever is just not plausible. I am a writer myself, and no two of my pieces are nearly as similar as Green's books, either.
Why does it matter so much to you?
Zoee wrote: "Why does it matter so much to you?"I'm allowed to have an opinion. I warned everyone that they shouldn't even bother looking at this if they're a fan of this book.
Maddie wrote: "5. Speaking of Amsterdam...not logical. "My kid is dying of cancer and travel may kill her, but what the hell, she can leave the country with uber sexy dream boy," said Hazel's mom. That wasn't in the novel either? That's funny, because that's almost literally what happened. I'm nearly positive that if you are dying and travel is risky/too inconvenient, your parents are not going to let you fly out of the country with this boy you barely know. I know my parents wouldn't, and travel with my disease isn't as risky as Hazel's. "Oh! But her mom wanted her to experience all that she could before/just in case she died!" Don't even get me started."This bothered me too!! And not to mention that Augustus's cancer was back at that point too and, well I just don't see his parents letting him jet of across the world !!
Even thou I really did like this book I have to agree with almost all the points you bought up!!
It doesn't really matter, though. Also, yes, you can have an opinion, but you're going at an extent, and I just don't see why you care so much about voicing your opinion if you didn't even like the book.
I'm sorry, am I not allowed to do that? I'm not trying to be rude here, so sorry if I come across that way, but I think it's only fair that if people get to express their love for a book, other people get to express what they disliked about it.
That's not what I said. I just don't see WHY you're doing it. Waste of time, I guess. If you don't like a book, why spend so much time talking about it ?
Zoee wrote: "That's not what I said. I just don't see WHY you're doing it. Waste of time, I guess. If you don't like a book, why spend so much time talking about it ?"You must be new to the internet. Welcome! It's a prosperous land filled with people of all different kinds of opinions, who take a great amount of time and pride in expressing them, whether they be positive or negative. Why is she talking about her opinion of this book? I might ask why you are defending it. That might be construed as a waste of time.
The truth with anything is that you have to deal with people who might not agree with you. It doesn't make your opinion wrong, but then again, it doesn't make Maddie or myself wrong. All of us went looking for something when we read The Fault in Our Stars. I'm glad you liked it and I hope you found something beautiful in it. Maddie, I, and many other people did not. We see flaws in it, but if you find something wonderful, then bully for you! :)
*slow clap*Good job for taking on the supposed "greatest book in the entire of YA Cancer lit EVER". You did a really good job summing up the irritating pretentiousness of this book and backing up all of your opinions well. (side note to any fans reading this: I am not a hater-troll. I actually did want to like this book. But the characters and plot wouldn't let me.)
Zoee wrote: "That's not what I said. I just don't see WHY you're doing it. Waste of time, I guess. If you don't like a book, why spend so much time talking about it ?"Because Goodreads (and the Internet, if you're getting right down to it) is a forum for expressing opinions, positive or negative. I enjoyed reading Maddie's criticisms/opinions of the book. This is what Goodreads is about.
None of you are understanding what I'm saying. I'm 1000% done now bye
I understand exactly what you're saying. You're asking why, if I didn't like the book, I'm reviewing it. Simple: we don't only talk about things that we like. I didn't like this book, so I'm saying why. I do like the Harry Potter series, and in the past I have explained why. It just so happens that this is a popular book and often am told that I cannot possibly dislike the book if it's so popular. That's not true. There's a long list of popular books that I have disliked. I also do not know a single person who exclusively discusses things they enjoyed. Also, in all fairness, I did say that if you liked this book, this isn't the discussion for you. You had to know I was not going to be kind.
No, that is not what im saying stop irritating my life bye
Can't we just respect each other's opinions and move on? I mean isn't GR all about voicing our opinions? Honestly, I appreciated reading the opinions brought out in this thread because it made me think of things about this book that I never would have otherwise thought about. :)
Did you make this into a review? If not you should. You expressed your thoughts quite well. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm glad there are some like-minded people who don't like this overrated book.
I EXTREMELY ENJOYED THE BOOK.It is not the best book in the world ... but I and many others do like it. The number one reason I like it, is because it is pretty emotional. You may not like the book yet you'll still feel a certain connection.
I do agree that John Green's books are quite similar, but I guess that is his style. But they aren't identical.
Although, I do find this book pretty relatable in terms of how life spins things on us that we would never expect. I like the fact how the whole time Hazel didn't want Augustus to be hurt by her death, which was why she didn't want to love him, when in the end it was Augustus who died in the end. It was the complete opposite of what Hazel would have expected. These kind of things do happen in life, we just don't see it until John Green points it out.
He brings to mind interesting concepts.
So I guess the relatable parts are hidden deeper down in the book and everyone can have their own thoughts on it.
Also people (me being one of them) love the characters so much because they're extremely different to your average characters in other books due to their way of thinking and speaking etc. etc.
When something is fresh and new we tend to like it that much more.
John green is a talented author. That much I have to say and I know many others will agree with that statement.
Also you have some great thoughts and opinions on the book.
I really enjoyed this book, up until the point when they went to Amsterdam and Gus's cancer returned. After that it seemed to descend into the kind of book it claimed so strongly at the start to resent ie. a cliched, tear jerking, heroic, teen cancer journal.I found Augustus hard to like, he seemed to be a very flat character, only reacting to Hazel with clever lines and philosophical pondering that was all pretty meaningless. For me he failed to exist in his own right at all.
I wanted to like it more...but I couldn't.
Thank you Maddi! I enjoyed your thoughs very much, because mine are along those line. I understand why you care so much, and why you have such a strong opinion. And Jocelyn, I am curious. Why did you rate this book 5 Stars? Your post doesn't sound too enthusiastic?!
Maddi, I was laughing through your entire review. I gave this book 3 stars which for me is low :) I agree with many of your statements.I like John Green's books. I generally like his characters in his books. This one, however, I just didn't connect at all to the characters. I totally agree with your comment about the witticisms. Looking for Alaska was another John Green that people L-O-V-E-D and I didn't get the connection to that one as well. So now I see it through your review: Augustus and Alaska were the same type of character! Waahhh...lightbulb!!
Give me An Abundance of Katherines and Will Grayson, Will Grayson.
And for the folks that comment with things such as: "you have no feelings if you didn't like this book" or "something's wrong with you if you didn't like this book" - seriously folks? That's just crazy talk.
Maddie wrote: "I understand exactly what you're saying. You're asking why, if I didn't like the book, I'm reviewing it. Simple: we don't only talk about things that we like. I didn't like this book, so I'm saying..."I think it's cathartic to write about something that you are passionate - especially if it's negative. It's like writing a letter to someone who angered you (even if you don't send it). It's also cathartic to find like-minded individuals to discuss said opinion.
Melissa wrote: "Augustus and Alaska were the same type of character! Waahhh...lightbulb!!"I just noticed something when I got home today. I was flipping through my copy of Looking For Alaska idly, and something caught my eye.
"I like that book," Alaska said.
"Yes." The Colonel smiled and leaned over to look at her from his top bunk. "You would. Big white whale is a metaphor for everything. You live for pretentious metaphors."
Alaska and Augustus both like pretentious metaphors? Interesting, John Green, very interesting...
Fair enough, not everyone's going to like a book (Personally, I adored this one), but if you didn't, that's cool. Personally, as a teenager who has been underestimated time and time again because people simply don't think I'm intelligent enough, I like the fact that Green's teenage characters are very mature and smart.But hey, if you didn't like it then that's cool. I'll admit, I do agree with a few of the points you made, but overall I still found the book to be enjoyable.
Maddie wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Augustus and Alaska were the same type of character! Waahhh...lightbulb!!"I just noticed something when I got home today. I was flipping through my copy of Looking For Alaska idly..."
hee hee...very interesting indeed!
I agree, the characters in this book are very pretentious. I know that teens can be very intelligent, but these characters were unbelievably clever and witty. I found this book to be a huge disappointment. There were a few witty one-liners, but coupled with the fact that they were said by people who seemed a bit unrealistic made me like the book less. The ending was also very predictable.One good thing I can say about it was that it was an easy read, so I was able to finish it in a few hours.
I didn't read it yet. I only wanted to complement you on actually giving reasons for not liking a book. I mean, unfortuantely in our societey you simply can't dislike something without a reason whereas you can like something without any reason. Of course, there's a difference between 'it was horrible' and 'I didn't like it because'. I'm glad it's not the first one.Well, I'm still really curious about the book.
Great review.. I thought I was one of the only ones to have not found this book amazing... You really gave great points to back up your opinion which makes it less of an opinion and more of a fact (:I personally liked LfA much more than this and preferred Alaska to August a great deal... Augustus was incredibly pretentious (pretty much every single peron in the book was) and even though Alaska is pretentious she is not to the sname extent as him... I found Alaska more emotionally unstable and confused than anything..
But again, awesome review
Julia wrote: "Zoee wrote: "Well, for one they were written by the same writer. So, similarities should be expected. And teenagers are all but capeable enough to be that clever. Don't get so butthurt about it."..."
I'm not a writer? Let me direct you to the definition of a writer.
writer (Noun)
1. A person who has written a particular text.
2. A person who writes books, stories, or articles.
I'm writing a book presently, I've written several short stories, and I've also written several articles for student newspapers and the like. By the very definition, I am a writer. If you're going for age, the youngest published author was only four years old, so trying to say I'm not a writer because I'm "only sixteen" and not an adult is a ludicrous statement. I've also experienced more in my (albeit short) life than a lot of adults have and am often mistaken for an adult due to my maturity.
It's fine that you liked the book, but I didn't. End of story.
Julia wrote: "End of story?I was under the impressing you were planning on posting to discuss the book with others who have different viewpoints on it. Nevermind, then."
I find it very hard to have a discussion with someone who says that I can't be a writer because I'm "not even an adult yet"; the two things have nothing to do with one another.
There is a difference on discussing different viewpoints of a book and arguing. Coming on someones review and telling them they are wrong for not liking a book is not a discussion and then trying to have a discussion but adding snide remarks like "At sixteen, you're not a "writer." You're not even an adult yet." Why did you even need to say that?!?! like seriously!! Its rude!
Eris the Batpig wrote: "Zoee wrote: "That's not what I said. I just don't see WHY you're doing it. Waste of time, I guess. If you don't like a book, why spend so much time talking about it ?"You must be new to the inter..."
I like you. Also this thread is a bit ridiculous and kind of a pissing contest.
I personally would like to express my opinion against yours, Maddie. I completely agree with most of your statements except for a few of your points. I don't think the flying to Amsterdam thing was weird mostly because I could see my mom doing it easily. My family is a bit different from others because my parents think that once you get to a certain age you should make your own decisions with guidance not force. But I'll say again my family is not average so I can see your point. On your fourth point I do not see where you got that from, honestly. I always had the impression that Hazel liked Augustus at least as a friend. And one your point on the Disney thing, while there are other examples of pretentiousness, that was more like harmless teasing in my opinion, but also, then again I have weird friends. For me personally, one of the reasons I really liked this book is because I really like witty banter, and I do not get enough of it with my friends. Yes, I liked the characters and the plot but also I didn't read much into it. I mostly read other, far older books and read these kinds of books when sad and mopey so I just... how to put this... kind of let the book wash over me without paying much attention. But also, now that I'm thinking about it, feel that I like the ideas they dish out and the characters are just a proxy to that. Not all good books have amazing characters, just look at Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. So I do see your point as I have ulterior motives for reading it and I have weird life experiences, but I still like it anyway.
I feel like this discussion got really off track. This was meant to be talking about why people did/didn't like TFIOS.Julia, you are failing to acknowledge the difference between being a writer and being a published writer. While yes, I do believe that Maddie is not a published writer, that doesn't make her not a writer. I consider myself a writer, and am in a similar position to Maddie. I'm not a published writer, and I might never be, but that does not make either of us not writers.
Age isn't a factor at all. Life experiences come at us at lots of different ages.
I will make two comments. I have a friend who is THAT clever, so I see his characters as realistic. Are they more clever than most? Yeah prolly. But hey this is a book. It fiction. It's his imagination for us to read and enjoy. Wouldn't you like to be that clever? Secondly about Hazel always contradicting herself, I have seen many a girl do that. It's because they are fighting the battle between what is logical and what they emotionally want. Hazel knows in her brain that this is probably not a good idea. She just met Augustus, but at the same time she thinks he's hot and she really wouldn't mind having someone to understand her. Isn't that what we all want? To be understood? Girls generally pick the more emotional decision. Just how it works.
Alex wrote: "I will make two comments. I have a friend who is THAT clever, so I see his characters as realistic. Are they more clever than most? Yeah prolly. But hey this is a book. It fiction. It's his imagina..."The part that you said "it's fiction" is exactly one of the reasons why I dislike this book, number six. Of course it's fiction, but it really is not believable to have two characters that are so clever. One I can handle. Two is a bit unbelievable.
Yes I see the comment now. I just skimmed through it. I can't decide my feelings on that comment. I believe in a way you are right, but then again. I'm not sure. Why not two? There are what 6 billion people in this world? Totally coincidence that they me um yeah, but it's his book. You know I would love to read what you have written. Can't you post that on here? You should.
Alex wrote: "Yes I see the comment now. I just skimmed through it. I can't decide my feelings on that comment. I believe in a way you are right, but then again. I'm not sure. Why not two? There are what 6 billi..."I'm actually really flattered that you asked. I'm typically pretty hesitant to post my original work online because a friend of mine actually had someone claim their work as theirs. However, I do post poetry of mine at All Poetry, but I haven't posted anything that I'm really proud of there in a while.
That is an awful thing that happened to your friend. Apologies. That's too bad. I like poetry, but it's not my favorite. Okay any writing is something to be proud of. You are using your imagination and brain rather than have it waste away into a pile of grey brain matter.
Typically I do not have conversations on the internet because I am afraid of stalkers, so don't be offended if I we don't become best online friends or some such nonsense.
Hi Maddie, I'm with you on this. I thought it was a truly dreadful manipulative load of nonsense. Bought and read it as it was (one of?) the highest rated book on Goodreads so had to see what the fuss was about. As it was so over-hyped I think we have every right to post our opinions in as many words as we want to a) achieve a balance and b) to let off steam.
I didn't like the book. And I came to this review saying to myself that I just want to read other people's opinions of why they didn't like it, and leave it at that. As often with a book I didn't like, if I can forget it easily, I won't really go through the trouble expressing my dislike. People have different tastes, some I can respect, some are just meh, I don't care for much. Either way, I refrain from eliciting antagonism from raving fans who just wouldn't see the point in an argument, or those who can't respect other people's opinions. I mean, what's the point right? I can just move on to the next book in my list and just forget all about this so both of us (fans and not-so-fan alike) can live a happy, stress-free life. I'm willing to sacrifice that much for the sake of literature.Given that, I just want to say that I applaud your case and respect your courage in bringing your opinions out in the world. Just know that someone here agrees to all of the points you raised and is giving you a slow clap :) I really wish that your next reading experience won't be as frustrating.
I just want to say you are a writer if you write and I want to encourage you to keep doing so. Even though I liked this book your review was well spoken.
I teach teenagers. They are not this clever and witty. And what two random teenagers just happen to have passports.
Eris the Batpig wrote: "You must be new to the internet. Welcome! It's a prosperous land filled with people of all different kinds of opinions, who take a great amount of time and pride in expressing them, whether they be positive or negative. Why is she talking about her opinion of this book? I might ask why you are defending it. That might be construed as a waste of time.The truth with anything is that you have to deal with people who might not agree with you. It doesn't make your opinion wrong, but then again, it doesn't make Maddie or myself wrong. All of us went looking for something when we read The Fault in Our Stars. I'm glad you liked it and I hope you found something beautiful in it. Maddie, I, and many other people did not. We see flaws in it, but if you find something wonderful, then bully for you! :) "
LOL! This might be the coolest post I've read this year. Here, have a cookie!
This book kept me entertained while I read it, but I didn't find it memorable in any way (except maybe in pretentiousness levels) and it left me with the feeling "hmm, I've read this before..."
Anyway, congrats Maddie for taking the time to construct such well explained criticism ;)
I actually liked the fact that the teenagers in the book were portrayed as clever and witty. I feel like in many YA books they act like complete morons. Maybe, John Green just enjoys writing about more intellectually gifted teens
In addition to Amsterdam being very illogical, it's also really cliché. I resent how some writers use a sudden trip to a foreign place to develop their characters. It's really out of plot, and it ruins the story for me 9/10 times.I think John Green used Van Houten as an evil antagonist to make up for the Mary Sue-ness of all the other characters. Honestly, it didn't work for me.
i respect your opinion, but i think we'll just have to agree to disagree because i personally loved the book but i do understand what you mean about the language because sometimes it did come off as a tad bit pretentious when every character was incredibly witty and clever, and i also realized almost ALL john greens characters are quite similar. However saying all that i still truly love john greens novels (even if they are slightly pretentious) and i think his characters use of vocabulary is gr8.
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1. Hazel and Augustus far too mature. Okay, not really too mature (I love seeing teenagers that are mature, actually), but far too clever. Why are these kids spouting witticisms every other sentence? "Oh! But having a fatal illness does that to you!" No, no it doesn't. I have an illness that could likely kill me one day and I get treatment for it far more often than Hazel and Augustus do. This is treatment that could kill me on accident. I do not spout witticisms with every word that I say. I will say, though, that terminal illness does make you more mature -- and that was one thing I did like about the book. Maturity and cleverness are not the same. Update, June 3, 2013: STOP COMMENTING ABOUT THIS. WE HAVE BEATEN THIS TOPIC TO DEATH. YES I KNOW THERE ARE SMART AND WITTY TEENAGERS, BUT LITERALLY EVERY CHARACTER IS JUST LIKE THIS FOR NO REASON AT ALL. I UNDERSTAND YOU WILL NOT WANT TO READ THROUGH 80+ REPLIES, BUT I RESPOND TO THIS ONE NEARLY EVERY DAY.
2. Literally all of the characters sounded exactly the same -- other than Van Houten, the pretentious asshole who spouted even more witticisms than our main characters and had an egotistical voice all his own. Hazel and Augustus talked the same way. Hazel and her not cancer best friend talked the same way. Isaac and Augustus talked the same way.
3. Some characters were just horribly irrelevant, namely Kaitlynn (I hope that's the spelling of her name), who appeared basically just to tell Hazel to get the D. There are so many other characters who could have filled this role that it's not even funny. There's also Van Houten's assistant, Ludejwig (? I think? You know who I'm talking about). She really wasn't needed. "Oh! But she brought Hazel and Gus to Amsterdam!" The potential was there for them to come to Amsterdam on their own accord.
4. "I don't like you, but I'll go to your house minutes after meeting you," Hazel said. It didn't say this in the book? It should have. Hazel tries to tell us often throughout the novel "I don't like Gus because of his stupid cancer/cigarette metaphor, but I guess I'll go to his house. I still don't like him, but I'll read his favorite book. I still don't like him, but I'll fly to Amsterdam with him..." etc., etc.
5. Speaking of Amsterdam...not logical. "My kid is dying of cancer and travel may kill her, but what the hell, she can leave the country with uber sexy dream boy," said Hazel's mom. That wasn't in the novel either? That's funny, because that's almost literally what happened. I'm nearly positive that if you are dying and travel is risky/too inconvenient, your parents are not going to let you fly out of the country with this boy you barely know. I know my parents wouldn't, and travel with my disease isn't as risky as Hazel's. "Oh! But her mom wanted her to experience all that she could before/just in case she died!" Don't even get me started.
6. The book was unbelievable regardless of this little factlet. "Oh! But it is a fiction book! It doesn't have to be believable!" Because fiction means that you can put in whatever you want, but it's okay because it's not real? By that logic, I am allowed to write a book and say that World War One began because of zombies that predicted the rise of Justin Bieber. No, I can't? Yes I can, it's fiction! I can say whatever I want about World War One! Except, you know, I can't because it's not believable. As a writer myself, I have to say that you do have to convince your readers that this could really happen.
7. You cannot get two more pretentious male characters than Augustus Waters and Peter Van Houten. We all know that Van Houten is a manipulative douche canoe, but nobody seems to notice that Augustus isn't all that he's cracked up to be, either. "You wished to go to Disney World when you were dying? You really shouldn't have done that even though you have free will. I wouldn't have wished to do that if it was me." This part infuriated me. "Oh! But it is a cliched wish to go to Disney!" Yep, it is. That doesn't mean you can make someone who wished to go there feel ashamed of said wish.
8. Predictable novel is predictable. Every time a little subplot came up, I thought to myself, 'I betcha this is going to happen' -- and hey, what do you know! I was right about 90% of the time!
9. Why did this book read exactly the same as Looking For Alaska? Hear me out on this. New kid shows up at a place for teens (Pudge and school, Augustus and the support group). Uber sexy dream person (Alaska and Augustus). Nerdy hero[ine] (Pudge and Hazel). Our teens are so cool because of their cigarette usage/metaphors (literally every character in Looking For Alaska, Augustus). God uber sexy dream person is so uber sexy I must have them (Pudge for Alaska, Hazel for Augustus or vice versa). SUDDEN DEATH WHOA DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING (Alaska and Augustus). The rest of the book devoted to finding oneself (Pudge and Hazel). Cheesy ending ('we must get out of the labyrinth!', 'I like my choices. I hope she likes hers... I do, Augustus.'). Speaking of similarities to Looking For Alaska, those characters all spoke in the same way too wise for their years voices, and I'm one hundred percent positive none of them were slowly dying.
Sorry, guys. I tried to like this book. But I hated it. Go ahead and say what you want about my opinion, but I warned you ahead of time that it wasn't going to be nice.