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Archived > Johnathan 'Jack' Randall and Jamie and Claire

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message 1: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Okay, do you think Jamie and Claire would still have met without Johnathan Randall? Say, if Jamie had been successful in killing Randall. Would it have changed 'everything'? Including his ever meeting Claire?

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message 2: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I suppose it is a possibility that they may not have gotten together, but there was still an attraction that Jamie explains to claire after they are married. He tells her about how her fell for her when he held her in his lap and comforted her after they got to Leoch. And Jamie was the only person that she felt close too at Leoch. She went to see him ofton and could relate to him.


message 3: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Ah, but my point is that without the hated Randall all of the events change.

Mary Hawkins marries that old guy. Never gets pregnant to Alex. There is no Johnathan Randall there to marry, Mary to even if she had somehow met Alex on her own, so there is no Frank Randall searching for his ancestry in Scotland. No Frank, no Claire in Scotland at the standing stones. She'd never have gone back.

And, I don't think it's accidental that the first person she meets when she goes back is Jack Randall. I think he was the pinpoint that took her back to that place and that time. Because Frank was studying him and he was in her mind.

Just some things I think. How one awful person was the link to all these chains of events and actually Jamie and Claire getting together in the first place. He's like the center point of the axis, isn't he? No Jack Randall, no Jamie and Claire. It's funny the characters, or at least Claire, hasn't reflected on that. Bizarre as it is.

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message 4: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Your right! I guess it all wouldn't have happened if not for Jack Randall. But things in our lives would be much different if even one thing changed.


message 5: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Yes, as much as I hated Randall I got to thinking about the chain of events that would have gone into the future had Jamie killed him any earlier than his marriage to Mary. Or even after.

And what it was that had brought Claire to that particular point in time and place. We just assume because she goes through the stones at Craigh na Dun, that's that's why she comes out there a little over 200 years earlier, but when Roger and Bree and the kids went back from another place I wondered why Claire had turned up where she did.

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message 6: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Yes, a first she thought that it was just as the stories af feiries and such, going back always two hundred years. But then when she goes back to Jamie and Bree and Roger go through as well, you start to figure this all out.

So when Bree and Roger go back with the kids who do they focus on to get them in the right time period? I'm not to that part of ABOSAA.


message 7: by Cynthia (last edited Apr 04, 2009 08:25AM) (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Do you think in the very beginning, that Claire went back to the time she did and bumped into BJR because she had been involved ( listening mostly) in conversations about him with the Rev. and Frank? may be unconsciously thinking about him then he became her point of axis? I'm new to the series so I may be totally off base here!


message 8: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments No you are not off base at all. That is exactly what I think.

How many of the books have you read, Cynthia?


message 9: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Wendy wrote: "No you are not off base at all. That is exactly what I think.

How many of the books have you read, Cynthia? "


I have read all of them. I started in October and finished ABOSAA in Feb and now I'm starting all over! In Outlander at the moment. When I was on the compuserve board I read that FC was referencing the KKK??? I was born and raised in the south and I didn't catch on to that one! I think I'm riding on the short bus..... So the Claire /BJR thing obvious to everyone but me??? I'm going to blame it on my age !!!


message 10: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments And I don't remember in ABOSAA that Bree and Roger focused on anyone to get back? Having the gemstones..does that just help the journey through time not be as chaotic?? Do you still need to have a point person to focus on? Or can you just focus on a place?? Like Lallybroch?


message 11: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Yes, Randall had to be the drawing point for Claire.

Well, Bree and Roger could concentrate on Fiona if they wanted to get back to their time. But there's no mention of the details of the 'how' they were intending to get back to their own time.

All I know is that when we get to the end of ABOSAA and the scene with the kids, that Amanda is already talking and walking. So, that's got to be what? Two years or more after they went back when they decide to renovate Lallybroch and move there?

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message 12: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Renee wrote: "Yes, Randall had to be the drawing point for Claire.

Well, Bree and Roger could concentrate on Fiona if they wanted to get back to their time. But there's no mention of the details of the 'how' ..."


I was wondering where it was exactly they landed in the first place? Scotland, Boston, Oxford? I was surprised that at the end of the book they are at LB???? and how long had they been there..because Roger brought back to the house the box that had belonged to Jemmy..the one with the homemade paper inside that Bree had made??



message 13: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Hmm, I hadn't thought that they might not have gone back to Scotland. I was going by the dream that Jamie had seeing Bree and Roger back at the Manse with Fiona and he says they're all safe.

That box. Why does Bree say, "Who's that?" when she sees the name etched into the lid?

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message 14: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments I don't know that stumped me too...I think I posed that question to Wendy. ( WENDY are you out there!)..I was like...is that not Jemmy??? does she not recognize her own son's full name?? I was very confused at that point... Maybe Jemmy goes back in Echo? and Doesn't Jamie call Amanda " wee baggage" somewhere? I'm still in outlander on this first re-read.


message 15: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Cynthia wrote: "Renee wrote: "Yes, Randall had to be the drawing point for Claire.

Well, Bree and Roger could concentrate on Fiona if they wanted to get back to their time. But there's no mention of the details..."

When Roger brought back the box, I was thinking, is he still cleaning out the Manse???




message 16: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Diana told me at her blog that we will find out how Jamie knows that Amanda is a 'fiesty, wee baggage'. Can't wait!

Yes, Bree's reaction puzzled me and still does. I guess we'll have to wait. Arghhh!

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message 17: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments "When Roger brought back the box, I was thinking, is he still cleaning out the Manse???"

Books says he was "clearing out the last bits of rubbish from the garage".

That box! Left in Edinburgh. Hmm.


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message 18: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I'm not at that part in ABOSAA yet, but I'm almost there. (I read as fast as I could in the car on our trip) But it is my recolection that The box is from a bank or firm in Edinburgh, kept in trust for Jem. Though the name mix up is a mystery.

I thought that they went back through the stones on the way to the Iriquoi. So they would have had to make their way from there to Boston to get to Bree's Money. And then to LB.

It never explained how long it was until they got to LB, but Amanda would have had to have her surgury, and I thought of Dr. Abernathey in Boston. Or another of Claires friends. Thus, a couple of years.


message 19: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments ohhh ..yea.. her PDF I had forgotten about that!!!! surely they had that surgery in the US especially with all of Claire's connections! Thanks!!! you always have such great insight!!


message 20: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments PDA I think they call it these days!!


message 21: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments I'm a technical retard. What is PDF?Or PDA?


message 22: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Patent Ductis Arteriosis....Sooo sorry ..I've ben in cardioloy my entire career. I forget. it used to be called Formale( PDF)


message 23: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Hello, us folks in the no medical world just dont get it. hahaha

Where do you think the box came from?


message 24: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments so sorry about that..its a hole in the heart that has it's use when the fetus is still in the womb and utilizing the mom's circulation. When the child is born then that area should close up on it's own, but sometines it doesn't. that's the short version! I will be more conscience of my verbage from here on out!
I really don't understand the box at all...or Bree's response. I actually enjoyed Jury duty...it got me out of work for a week!!


message 25: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments This isn't an interesting crime case. I'ts a dispute over buisness. Yuck. Dry contracts and deals etc.

I'll let you know when I'm done with ABOSAA to let you know how I feel about the box and Bree's reaction.


message 26: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments Wendy wrote: "This isn't an interesting crime case. I'ts a dispute over buisness. Yuck. Dry contracts and deals etc.

I'll let you know when I'm done with ABOSAA to let you know how I feel about the box and Br..."

Have a good week!




message 27: by Wendy (last edited Apr 09, 2009 06:53AM) (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Wendy wrote: "I'm not at that part in ABOSAA yet, but I'm almost there. (I read as fast as I could in the car on our trip) But it is my recolection that The box is from a bank or firm in Edinburgh, kept in trust..."

I finished the book and now recall the details of them traveling. They went to the stones on Bonnet's island to go back. (I thought what they would have looked like in 18th century clothing when they showed up)

Bree's response to the box is a puzzle. But it told about the box being stored in the reverands garage. It was given to him through a defunct bank in Edinburgh, the attacted letter being lost, but a note was supplied by the reverand. Maybe her response was that she hadn't thought about all of those names belonging to Jem. He goes by Jem, and they don't call him by all of the names.


I can't find the reference from one of you about the date at the end of the book that was printed in the paper about their deaths. But I figured it out. On the very last page of ABOSAA there is an Epilog. The printer had an accident with the type and used a Jan instead of November, saying that they wouldn't care because they were already dead. Thus we all thought that they were going to die in January 1776. But in truth the house burned down in November 1776, and was not printed until December. He used it as filler because Gen. Washington didn't have enough to say. Check it out!



message 28: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments I knew the part about the printer's mistake. What I can't figure out is why it says that Jamie and Claire were dead. Who gave them the news and why say that they'd died since they obviously didn't?

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message 29: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments Dont know. I was clarifying the dates printed. I hope we get to find out in the next book for sure. I have many questions like that.


message 30: by Renee (new)

Renee (nightbird) | 334 comments Hmm, I was doing a re-read of Fiery Cross and I got to the part where the Bugs come on the scene and Arch Bug mentions that he has a cousin in Edinburg 'as was to do wi' one of the banking houses' where he was hoping to find a job. I wonder if Jamie would use Arch's cousin's connections at that bank to get 'the box' stored away? I thought that was a strange coincidence.

I love Mrs. Bug!

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message 31: by Cynthia (new)

Cynthia Hanna-Tarantino (ctara) | 309 comments ohhhh yea...see I forgot all of these wee things!!
I love Mrs. Bug also...I need a Mrs. Bug in my household!!!


message 32: by Wendy (new)

Wendy | 259 comments At the end of ABOSAA Jamie says that they will head to Scotland to get the printing press, for himself I think. Maybe that is when he places the Box in the Banks care.

Mrs Bug is funny and verra fierce.


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