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Deadhouse Gates (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #2)
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Group Read - Deadhouse Gates > DG - Chapter Twenty - NO SPOILERS

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message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Spoilers up to chapter Twenty are ok.
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).

This path's a dire thing,
the gate it leads to
is like a corpse
over which ten thousand
nightmares bicker
their fruitless claims.
The Path
Trout Sen'al' Bhok'arala


Lori So Icarium succumbs to rage, but is being kept back by Mappo who has made a choice to protect him from the Azath. Going against his instructions. I have so much love for Mappo.

And what's with that suit of armor who talks to Moby!

Apsalar proves once again just how awesome she is - I truly love the way SE writes women.


Chaz | 297 comments Coltaine is done with protecting the refugees, he's going to make his last stand and that of the Seventh Army right here. He entrusts the job of escorting the remaining refugees (10-20,000?) to Duiker with Nil, Nether, 30 Wickan youths and a small number of walking wounded soldiers from the 7th.

A plains tribe is watching them from a distance but Coltaine trusts that they have received better treatment from the Empire than they did from the native city state civilisations and so will honour Malazan treaties of passage. They di better than that and offer to escort the refugees across their land although that escort runs out when they get to within three leagues of Aren.

There is some concern that the gates of Aren won't open to allow this train of refugees who have walked across a continent in the last 6-9 months in a running battle with the constant fear of imminent death. Pormqual is a bastard.


message 4: by Chaz (last edited Mar 13, 2013 09:51AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments In other news, Apt meets up with Cotillion. Now, obviously Dancer has been at Kellanved's side for decades. We learnt in GotM that Dancer was the only other non-T'lan Imass present when they knelt before Kellanved as he sat atop the First Throne (GotM ch9). They "died" together and ascended together, K as Shadowthrone, ruler of the Warren of Shadow, D as Cotillion the right hand man/assassin.

This dynamic of ruler and fixer is long established so it's interesting to see how Cotillion refers to Shadowthrone:

"My colleague ever underestimates this realm's natural inhabitants."

Cotillion has a colleague in Shadowthrone, not a boss. I wonder, does ST view their relationship in the same way?


Panek, the child saved by the demon Apt and reshaped into her companion: "Your eyes - they're different - so small, two fighting to see as one. I think they must be weak. When you approached, you walked through a stone wall and then the trees, rippling the ghost world as if ignorant of its right to dwell here."

Cotillion's eyes widened. "Wall? Trees?" He glanced up at Apt. "Has his mind fled?"


Then later:

Cotillion grimaced. "Teach me what you see... here, in this realm. Your ghost world, the Shadow Hold that was, the old places that remain-"

"What you walk through unseeing."

"Aye. I've often wondered why the Hounds never run straight."


Cotillion looks out across Shadow realm and sees a completely empty and barren landscape. Panek can see buildings, walls, trees in a ghostly form that in his words have a right to be there. It would seem that the Hounds can see those thing too because they run around them, not through. These are echoes of the old Shadow Hold.

Ammanas and Cotillion don't have a very full understanding of the realm they now claim to rule.


Cotillion to Apt: When I ascended, Lady, it was to escape the nightmares of feeling..." He grimaced. "Imagine my surprise that I now thank you for such chains."

It would seem that cutting off your emotions by becoming a god (or close to it) is not all its cracked up to be. Cotillion is now being given a lesson in the value of compassion by an ancient demon.


message 5: by Chaz (last edited Mar 13, 2013 09:57AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Salk Elan is revealed as the Clawmaster Pearl, I had been wondering where he and Lostara Yil had got to. He has had the ship in the grip of sorcery and been controlling the captain and confusing the crew and Kalam. I assume he is responsible for driving the ship off course and bringing Kalam to Malaz City. Three Hands (small squads of Claw; at a guess 5 Claw would make up a Hand from the analogy) now await Kalam in the city but first he has to get a sure with a deep puncture wound in his chest and full chain armour weighing him down. They plan to have a little game of Hide & Seek & Murder.


Lori Hate Pearl!

Cotillion is at the top of my favorite characters. He thought by ascending he would lose feelings but he's not and he's thankful. He considers himself a colleague not only with Lellanved and Shadowthrone but also Apt to whom I've now become very attached.

I guess I love assassins!

Can't wait to learn more about Meanus and the older Shadow hold. I guess Our 2 ascendants are in Meanus only. So kellenvad has to sit on the throne of Kurald Emerlyn,

Pearl claims he didn't do some of the strange happenings.

Here comes Minala!


message 7: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
What a awesome chapter, Feners Hairy Balls did that have my attention.

Where to begin......

Cotillion, great to see an emotional side to him. His cold remoteness slipped a lot when Panek told him of his torture.

Salk, Oscar award! Got to admire his skill, Kalem is no fool, one of the best in fact, yet Pearl had him fooled. Pearl is The Man.

Did you notice the captain first out he gate to rescue the refugees and take the toddler off Duiker? Keneb.

Captain who?. "Glad to have you back Cather...." "I drowned years ago"


message 8: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Mar 14, 2013 04:49AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Looks like everyone has covered just about everything.

Lori wrote: "And what's with that suit of armor who talks to Moby!"

Is that maybe how the Azath house chooses to communicate with it's guardian?

And what about little Moby. Not so little. A soletaken demon big enough in it's true form to hold a man in it's arms.

The bhok’aral there in your hands, Crokus, is demonic. In true form, it could hold you as you now hold it.’

and Moby was actually providing cover on the journey
‘He was out there when we travelled the storms, wasn’t he?’ Crokus said, approaching the tiny wizened creature. ‘Recall those battles we could not see? He was protecting us ... all along.’

And Moby has been drawn by the Azath to become it's new guardian

‘Tremorlor needed a new guardian. Need I be any clearer?’
Crokus blinked, looking again at Moby, the trembling creature in his hands. ‘My uncle’s familiar?’
‘A demon, at the moment somewhat intimidated by expectation, we might assume. But I’m sure the creature will grow into the role.’



And Fiddler get a delivery of Moranth Munitions from Quick Ben via the Trygalle Trade Guild.


And we learn Kellanved used a run a bar before he was Emperor

‘Let me guess: the infamous tavern called Smiley’s, once owned by the man who would one day become an Emperor – the sailors tell me the food is quite awful.’

With Surly possibly as serving wench - Whiskeyjack talking to Surly in the prologue of GoTM

The man grimaced. 'So I've heard. You must be feeling confident in the Emperor's absence. He's not the only one who remembers you as nothing more than a serving-wench down in the Old Quarter.


message 9: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Chaz wrote: "It would seem that cutting off your emotions by becoming a god (or close to it) is not all its cracked up to be. Cotillion is now being given a lesson in the value of compassion by an ancient demon. "

And we also see Uncle(lol) Cotillion expressing some paternal feeling and remorse towards Apsalar

Panek broke in. ‘Uncle, do you have any children?’
He winced, looked away. ‘A daughter. Of sorts.’ He sighed, then smiled wryly. ‘We had a falling-out, I’m afraid.’
‘You must forgive her.’

... ‘The forgiveness is the other way around, alas.’



I like how Cotillion does his grand exit, disappearing into the shadows but...

Panek continued staring. ‘Does he imagine,’ he asked his mother, ‘that he now walks unseen?’ (In other words, "does he really think he's invisible?)


Chaz wrote: "They plan to have a little game of Hide & Seek & Murder. "

Nobody leaves the Claw and lives


I like how when Apt comes aboard and the Imperial demon shows up

The child reached down and patted Apt’s lone shoulder. ‘Let’s be quick with this one, shall we?’


Lee wrote: "Captain who?. "Glad to have you back Cather...." "I drowned years ago" "

and from Chapter two -

Bult asked, ‘Who was High Fist before him?’(Pormqual)
‘Cartheron Crust, who drowned one night in Aren Harbour.’



message 10: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
We find Dassem Ultor's daughter dead in the Azath house. We haven't talked much about Dassem yet, but he has been referred to quite a few times in this book and the first book. The Emperor's First Sword - High Commander of all Kellanved's military - I've listed a few quotes to refresh our memories


The First Sword of Empire. Dassem Ultor. We heard in the capital before we left. He's dead. Is it true? Is Dassem dead?'

... back in the days when Dassem Ultor ran the military,' the Claw continued blithely. 'It was Whiskeyjack's Seventh Company that ran down the Seven Cities' mage cabal out in the Pan'potsun Wastes.

It all culminated with Dassem's murder, then the Emperor's assassination, and blood in the streets, temples at war, sorceries unleashed

You forget, Historian, that before Laseen became Empress, she was close companions with Crust,(ie Cartheron Crust) Urko, Ameron, Dassem and the others.

‘Dancer trusted but two men. One was Kellanved. The other was Dassem Ultor, the First Sword.

Early in Kellanved’s reign, cults proliferated among the Imperial armies, particularly among the Marines. It should be remembered that this was also the time of Dassem Ultor, First Sword and Supreme Commander of the Malazan forces ... a man sworn to Hood ...
Malazan Campaigns, vol. II
Duiker


Dessembrae. The Cult of Dassem.

Fiddler could think of only a handful of people possessing that magnetic quality. Dassem Ultor, Prince K’azz D’Avore of the Crimson Guard, Caladan Brood and Dujek Onearm


And then we come to this chapters mention. In the azath House we find dead on the floor...

'This is Dassem Ultor’s daughter. The First Sword recovered her after Hood was done using her, and brought her here, it seems.’
‘Before breaking his vow to Hood—’
‘Aye, before Dassem cursed the god he once served.’


If we combine that with this quote from book one

'the story goes that the Emperor's First Sword – his commander of his armies – Dassem Ultor, had accepted a god's offer. Hood made Dassem his Knight of Death. Then something happened, something went ... wrong. And Dassem renounced the title, swore a vow of vengeance against Hood – against the Lord of Death himself.


The history of Dassem Ultor is one of those mysteries I'm looking forward to tracking this reread.


message 11: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Ahha, I couldn't remember if Crust had been mentioned in book one.

Now in regards to the Azath house (view spoiler)


message 12: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Now in regards to the Azath house"

Re your spoiler - I don't think so. From memory (view spoiler)


Mikeiwo | 57 comments Lee wrote: "Ahha, I couldn't remember if Crust had been mentioned in book one.

Now in regards to the Azath house [spoilers removed]"


(view spoiler)


message 14: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Mikeiwo wrote: "Lee wrote: "Ahha, I couldn't remember if Crust had been mentioned in book one.

Now in regards to the Azath house [spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed]"


(view spoiler)


message 15: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Nothing to see here but spoilers (view spoiler)


message 16: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Nothing to see here but spoilers [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)


message 17: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (view spoiler)


message 18: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
LOL guess we need to read ICE books again once we have finished Fallen.


message 19: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Yes please Lee. I've only read NoK.


message 20: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
I thought about reading them along side this read, in the correct order. But I don't think I want to commit that much Malazan time right now :)


message 21: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
I like how Quick Ben has scavenged the munitions from the "roadworks" in Darujistan where the Bridgeburners planted them last book.

One last question, however: did the mage say anything about where the contents of this crate came from?’
‘Oh, indeed he did, sir. From the Blue City’s streets. An obscure reference you are clearly fortunate to understand in an instant, I see.’



message 22: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
There's some stones for you. Digging up explosives made of clay.


message 23: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Mar 14, 2013 10:15PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "There's some stones for you. Digging up explosives made of clay."

I would have said carrying them on a carriage through warrens full of stampeding soletaken would take stones - except they didn't know they had munitions on board.
I like how the Driver was worried he might have broken some and I can hear Fiddler thinking "You wouldn't be standing here is you broke something"


message 24: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
They are the finest courier company going. I think UPS should read their operating manual.


message 25: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Mar 15, 2013 02:07AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Deliveries guaranteed come rain, hail, or undead.


message 26: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
With this crew sometimes their staff leave their severed hands on the wagon, now that is dedication to the job.


message 27: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments @Lee Not staff, shareholders.

ICE after the main MBotF would be better for me. I can't only read Malazan this year.


message 28: by Rob, Quick Ben (last edited Mar 15, 2013 04:38AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Did you notice the captain first out he gate to rescue the refugees and take the toddler off Duiker? Keneb.

Captain who?. "Glad to have you back Cather...." "I drowned years ago"
"


David Sven wrote: "and from Chapter two -

Bult asked, ‘Who was High Fist before him?’(Pormqual)
‘Cartheron Crust, who drowned one night in Aren Harbour.’"


So Keneb is really this Cather guy who was the high first before Pormqual?


message 29: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
As far as ICE goes, I might be up for it after we're done. As it stands now we won't finish till sometime in February 2014, and that's assuming:

1) People last that long
2) We don't change the pace as books get longer. We're just arbitrarily doing 4 chapters a week, but not all chapters are created equal in page count.


David (drl2) | 41 comments re Dassem, love the conversation around him, thanks for collecting the quote. I'm definitely expecting him to resurface somewhere/sometime, likely linked to Shadow (Knight? is there a Knight position in house shadow?), but that among many other unknowns is what makes this reading so great.

re ICE, I definitely want to read that stuff after the 10 Malazan books, or is there a better order to read it all in? (I know this group is for Malazan only right now, just wondering.)


message 31: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Rob wrote: "So Keneb is really this Cather guy who was the high first before Pormqual?"

The Captain of the Ragstopper - not Keneb :)


message 32: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
David Sven wrote: "Rob wrote: "So Keneb is really this Cather guy who was the high first before Pormqual?"

The Captain of the Ragstopper - not Keneb :)"



Ah. OK. I do recall Kalam, noting the Captain is more than he seems.


message 33: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Ahhhhhh, never put that together before.


message 34: by Chaz (last edited Mar 15, 2013 09:09AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments @Rob I can see why you're confused with the way that Lee wrote that because Keneb is a Captain in the military and met Duiker outside the walls of Aren.

Then Lee made a further point about the ship-Captain of the Ragstopper being possibly someone we've vaguely heard of before which is where that quote is from later in the chapter.


message 35: by Chaz (last edited Mar 15, 2013 09:10AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Rob wrote: "but not all chapters are created equal in page count."

That's true enough. The next chapter is one of the shortest in the series, but oh what a chapter! Can't wait for next week to start.


message 36: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori I've been waiting all week to begin the end! Tomorrow is the day I give myself permission. It was absolutely impossible to stop reading first time, now I'm enjoying the slow pace and staying on track with the discussions, plus I finally found a completely different but excellent book to read on my "down" time that doesn't require marathons to keep track of plot or who what where - The Alexandria Quartet.


message 37: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
I can see why you're confused with the way that Lee wrote that because Keneb is a Captain in the military and met Duiker outside the walls of Aren.

Then Lee made a further point about the ship-Captain of the Ragstopper being possibly someone we've vaguely heard of before which is where that quote is from later in the chapter.


Practising writing in SE style. Clues and confusion.


message 38: by Juniper (last edited Mar 15, 2013 05:36PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments I know I told you before Lori, but I can't wait to hear what you think of Alexandria. I heard it's SUPERB.

Anyway, staying on topic this time... most about everything seems more or less covered here so, again, I'll just spill my this-rocked.

I really loved the way Cotillion had to search for the proper title for himself before the child and ended up with Uncle! I also loved how he thinks of Apsalar as his, in a way, daughter.

And I hope Kalam will be OK. Unlike before, when I felt like he was about to die all the time, I am quite certain that he'll get to land (more or less) safely.

And Captain Carther! Aha! I didn't connect the dots there but... INTERESTING.

With this book, I'm coming to see I'm not much of a military girl, but more of an assassin's girl. I prefer the sneaky passages to those of Duiker's journey to Aren.


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments And who's the talking armor in Tremorlor?!


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments I too can't wait to read the last four chapters. Glad I finished chapter twenty late: less time to wait before I can start with the next one!


message 41: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Kat wrote: "And who's the talking armor in Tremorlor?!"

We don't know yet, nor have we had any meaningful clues. This one will have to remain a mystery for now.

I am all in on the military stuff. I love a good assassin's hunt but for me this book reaches incredible heights on the Chain of Dogs. Luckily, we've got both to enjoy.


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments I think my inability to fully appreciate military stuff comes from not knowing much at all about it or military strategy. It's hard to see the brilliance in a move or a decision when you don't know what makes it so. Then again, I was confused for half the entire journey too, having some difficulty to differentiate the clans and tribes; but I got there towards the end.

I really like Duiker though, and the rest of "his" crew. :)


message 43: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
Yeah. I finished the book today. Lol. Probably going to be slow to start Memories of Ice depending on how quickly I finish The Way of Kings


message 44: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments A few more hours Rob, then we can discuss.


message 45: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
Chaz wrote: "A few more hours Rob, then we can discuss."

Lol. It's not a big deal. There just wasn't a lot left, and this way I can read WoK without interruption.


Roberta | 13 comments Ah, I finally catch up to you (busy month). This book is so painful to read, every passage of the Chain of Dogs breaks my heart.
Children are dying said Lull in one of the first chapters and I think its the best phrase of the book.

About this chapter, I really liked Cotillion's conversation with Apt and the boy. And I wonder about Kalam fate.


message 47: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
'Children are dying.'
Lull nodded. 'That's a succinct summary of humankind, I'd say. Who needs tomes and volumes of history? Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words.


I picked this out on my first read. An awesome quote.

Cotillions conversation was interesting. It was the first time we really get to see a humane side of Cotillion.


message 48: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori That's a noteworthy quote, I read it twice.


Roberta | 13 comments Cotillion's scene cheered me up to: he wants to learn new things and make up with Apsalar; it made me assume that his purpose (and Shadowthrone's) is not destructive and at the end of a book in which so many characters die it is refreshing.
Of course I could be totally wrong.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Got the fast trader now. Shouldn't have taken this long, really.


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