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Deadhouse Gates (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #2)
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Group Read - Deadhouse Gates > DG - Chapter Nineteen - NO SPOILERS

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message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (last edited Mar 13, 2013 03:43AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Spoilers up to chapter Nineteen are ok.
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).

The Day of Pure Blood
was a gift of the Seven
from their tombs of sand.
Fortune was a river
the glory a gift of the Seven
that flowed yellow and crimson
across the day.
Dog Chain
Thes'soran


message 2: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
'The blathering of secrets,' the high priest of shadow uttered in a wholly different voice, ' so they judge me ineffectual'

That completely blows my mind. I end up arguing myself in circles reasoning out this.


message 3: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Those hounds are some of the most feared creatures going. It is somewhat disconcerting, when the are fidgeting with nervous agitation.


message 4: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Now we are beginning to understand the T'lan Imass and the ritual they under took so they could exterminate the jaghut. It is difficult to like them when you read of their atrocities.


message 5: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Woohoo. The Trygalle Trade Guild is in town. I love these guys.

never underestimate the empress

So just when you thought you had the story straight, Bam! More brain churning, rampart thought provoking one liners to keep you awake at night.


message 6: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
And on the way to the next battle The Chain of Dogs comes across an Imass burial ground. Not buried as T'lan Imass don't die but their too crushed bodies left petrified in wood - yet still eternally aware

At the war’s end, the survivors came here, carrying those comrades too shattered to continue, and made of this forest their eternal home. The souls of the T’lan Imass cannot join Hood, cannot even flee their prisons of bone and withered flesh. One does not bury such things – that sentence of earthen darkness offers no peace. Instead, let those remnants look out from their perches upon one another, upon the rare mortal passages on this trail. . .

We also come across Jaghut burial grounds. Those the T'lan were fighting against - a family in this instance. The father the one who is giving List his dreams. This engagement lasted centuries.

‘So, this is where the Jaghut lived.’
‘The first tower. From here, pushed back, then again, then again. The final stand – the last tower – is in the heart of the plain beyond the forest.’
‘Pushed back,’ the historian repeated.
List nodded. ‘Each siege lasted centuries, the losses among the T’lan Imass staggering. Jaghut were anything but wanderers. When they chose a place ...’ His voice fell off. He shrugged.


And the Ragstopper is still being stalked by that strange ship. I'm not so sure any more if it is the Silanda. And Kalam is now convinced that the whole ship is under the influence of sorcery that distorts time and is sending a wind that is blowing them of course. He pulls out his "knuckle in the hole" - a stone that has been ensorcelled to create a direct line to Quick Ben - which he was saving for when he faced the Empress - but he feels things are desperate now. Quick has a sniff around through the link

‘Uh.’
‘What does that mean, Quick?’
‘You’re in trouble, friend.’
‘Laseen?’
‘Not sure. Not directly – that ship stinks of a warren, Kalam, one of the rarest among mortals. Been confused lately, friend?’



Quick Ben then guesses that someone wants the treasure on the ship and wants everyone to then forget where it got delivered. There's probably a mage on board or in a ship following behind - and we have one of those. The plot thickens.

And we learn that the Nameless Ones wanted Icarium get trapped in the Azath House. It was Mappo's job to get him there - even though the nameless Ones didn't tell him that bit. And part of Shadowthrone's deal with the Azath was to give it Icarium. Mappo and Fiddler and Co aren't going to let that happen - but the Hounds and Shadow are not on board.

And then little Moby(Mammot's familiar) turns up. And the Hounds shrink from him. It appears the little Bhokarala might be more than it appears

‘Bhok’aral!’ The word came from Iskaral Pust as a curse. ‘A pet? A pet? Madness!’
‘My uncle’s familiar,’ Crokus said, approaching.
The Hounds shrank from his path.
Oh, lad, much more than that, it seems.


And we are introduced to the Trygalle Trade Guild. A bunch of mage pirates that make deliveries by trespassing through warrens. This one brings gift from Dujek Onearm and the cabal of Darujistan

‘Dujek Onearm was the force behind this mission,’ Duiker said.
Karpolan nodded. ‘With financial assistance from a certain cabal in Darujhistan, yes. His words were thus: “The Empress cannot lose such leaders as Coltaine of the Crow Clan.’” The trader grinned. ‘Extraordinary for an outlaw under a death sentence, wouldn’t you say?’


The suggestion being made here is that Dujek's "outlawing" is a ruse on Laseen's part. The strategy is explained...

Locked in a war against an entire continent . . . stumbling onto a recognition of an even greater threat – the Pannion Domin . . .
. . . how to fashion allies among enemies, how to unify against a greater threat with the minimum of fuss and mistrust? Outlaw your occupying army, so they’ve ‘no choice’ but to step free of Laseen’s shadow.
...So now he has allies – those who were once his enemies – perhaps even Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake themselves . . .



In other words Laseen "contributes" her army to her former enemies by outlawing Onearm's host who would otherwise had no access to Rake or Caladan Brood's forces.

Quick Ben also gets a mention - though not by name

‘And, from an alarmingly mysterious mage among the Bridgeburners, this gift was fashioned.’ He held it out to Coltaine. ‘For you. Wear it. At all times, Fist.’

... ‘And such a man, that creator! A dozen Ascendants would dearly love his head served up on a plate, his eyes pickled, his tongue skewered and roasted with peppers, his ears grilled—’


Sounds like our Quick Ben


And Coltaine finds unexpected allies among a seven cities tribe "The Khundryl" who have been greatly impressed by Coltaine


Chaz | 297 comments "What's on your mind, Fid?" Crokus asked, his tone suggesting he had a pretty good idea.

"Sappers got a saying," he muttered. "Wide-eyed stupid."


Besides being funny, this implies that they are going to help prevent the Azath from taking Icarium even though they can see that that is an incredibly dangerous and stupid thing to do. Wide-eyed stupid is knowing what the pragmatic thing to do is but then doing the right thing anyway even if it means you'll likely die.

This provides a great contrast to the efficiency philosophy of Dancer and Laseen talked about between Apsalar and Icarium in ch 16.

Apsalar to Icarium: Assassins bow to the altar of efficiency, Icarium, and efficiency is brutal. It sacrifices mortal lives without a second thought, all for whatever is perceived as the greater need."

These are fundamentally different world views but we're not told which one we should agree with:

"In his mind, he was a man who fixed things. He viewed himself as honourable. A man of integrity was Dancer. But efficiency is a cold master."


message 8: by Chaz (last edited Mar 13, 2013 10:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments David Sven wrote: "Locked in a war against an entire continent . . . stumbling onto a recognition of an even greater threat – the Pannion Domin . . .
. . . how to fashion allies among enemies, how to unify against a greater threat with the minimum of fuss and mistrust? Outlaw your occupying army, so they’ve ‘no choice’ but to step free of Laseen’s shadow.
...So now he has allies – those who were once his enemies – perhaps even Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake themselves . . . "


Admittedly this thought is from Duiker, who as the Imperial Historian probably has some access to high level intel and some experience on which to base intuitive insights like this. However, this felt unusually omniscient. Erikson normally restricts our knowledge to that of his characters and this stood out to me as having a different feel.


message 9: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Chaz wrote: ""What's on your mind, Fid?" Crokus asked, his tone suggesting he had a pretty good idea.

"Sappers got a saying," he muttered. "Wide-eyed stupid."



Ha ha! I love this saying. I always interpreted the "wide eyes" to be simultaneous joy and stark terror when handling munitions in less than a safe manner, but your interpretation sounds smarter.

However, this felt unusually omniscient. Erikson normally restricts our knowledge to that of his characters and this stood out to me as having a different feel.

Well Karpolan does give Dujek two vital bits of intel. 1. Dujek is perhaps not really an outlaw and 2 - he's fighting the Pannion Dommin. I never considered this to be too much of a stretch to put one and one together but now you mention it, Dujek draws his conclusions rather quickly.


message 10: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Now we are beginning to understand the T'lan Imass and the ritual they under took so they could exterminate the jaghut. It is difficult to like them when you read of their atrocities."

Yeah, making themselves immortal so they could travel across the barriers of ice the Jaghut raised without needing the food the ice barriers denied as well surviving their own attacks - all because their pride was offended by the Jaghut's indifference of them!

Each Jaghut’s interest was with him or herself. Almost exclusively. They viewed the T’lan Imass no differently from the way they viewed ants underfoot, herds on the grasslands, or indeed the grass itself. Ubiquitous, a feature of the landscape. A powerful, emergent people, such as the T’lan Imass were, could not but be stung—’


message 11: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments David Sven wrote: "I never considered this to be too much of a stretch to put one and one together but now you mention it, Dujek [I assume you meant Duiker] draws his conclusions rather quickly."

If this account of Dujek's outlawing is true, it's a massive hoodwink, not only of an army of 10,000 but also of Rake and Brood, of Darujhistan and the other Free Cities of Genabackis. The idea that Dujek is an outlaw of the Empire must have a huge amount of inertia behind it for this plan to work. It seems awfully quick to jump to this conclusion even if Duiker has some information that might point that way.

Also, my point is that the passage sounds third person omniscient in a way that no other part of these two books has. I found it a little jarring even if I do love the idea.


message 12: by Chaz (last edited Mar 13, 2013 04:35PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Lee wrote: "Now we are beginning to understand the T'lan Imass and the ritual they under took so they could exterminate the jaghut. It is difficult to like them when you read of their atrocities."

This is the tension. I loved Tool in the last book and individual T'lan Imass are some of my favourite characters but as a people their single-minded commitment to the utter destruction and murder of another species that just want to be left alone makes them hard to like collectively. There is something of awing about the lengths to which they've gone but at the same time something horrific.


message 13: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
It's clever writing. As you say, when you step back from the characters, the race as a whole were awful. To commit themselves to immortality in that form, just so they could finish off each individual Jaghut, including the children, shows the true nature of the Imass people before their taking of the ritual.

Bearing in mind, that the jaghut were largely a race that kept to itself, out of contact with most other races, there was only an occasional tyrant, but they obviously caused chaos, but for the Imass too take upon itself to eradicate the race is mind blowing.


message 14: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori I never gave much thought to just how murderous the Imass were so thanks for pointing that out. And really wasn't it only Raest who was the tyrant? The others even joined in to bring him down. So yeah, the Imass were completely obsessed and could not differentiate between a tyrant and the whole race. They were completely abused by Raest but went too far.

(view spoiler)


message 15: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lori wrote: " They were completely abused by Raest but went too far."

Did they go to war because of Raust? Or was it purely racism?


Mikeiwo | 57 comments David Sven wrote: "Lori wrote: " They were completely abused by Raest but went too far."

Did they go to war because of Raust? Or was it purely racism?"


(view spoiler)


Mikeiwo | 57 comments Mikeiwo wrote: "David Sven wrote: "Lori wrote: " They were completely abused by Raest but went too far."

Did they go to war because of Raust? Or was it purely racism?"


(view spoiler)


message 18: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
@Mikeiwo - Ah I remember that - but the reason for the Imass going to war isn't mentioned specifically so far except to say

‘Pogroms need no reason, sir, none that can weather challenge, in any case. Difference in kind is the first recognition, the only one needed, in fact. Land, domination, pre-emptive attacks – all just excuses, mundane justifications that do nothing but disguise the simple distinction. They are not us. We are not them.’


They viewed the T’lan Imass no differently from the way they viewed ants underfoot, herds on the grasslands, or indeed the grass itself. Ubiquitous, a feature of the landscape. A powerful, emergent people, such as the T’lan Imass were, could not but be stung—’


Though admittedly this is List speaking giving the Jaghut ghost's POV. Maybe we'll get an Imass POV on the war later in the series.


message 19: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
@Mikeiwo - I missed your second post before answering - that actually makes sense - but I'm not sure we know that specific reason at this point in the series. Another thing to keep a lookout for.


message 20: by Lori (last edited Mar 14, 2013 03:20PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Thanks everyone! They seem to have a massive amount of power, and when a screw gets lose, watch out.

(view spoiler)


message 21: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Regarding Lori's spoiler (view spoiler)


message 22: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori I think that we have to pay attention to who is talking, even a very reliable narrator like Duiker doesn't really know what happened way back when, before humans made their appearance. And just like Tool talking about the Tiste Andii, he is very very old he admits he doesn't really know the full story, more rumors and conjectures. it's all shrouded in antiquity.

(view spoiler)


message 23: by Rob, Quick Ben (last edited Mar 14, 2013 08:22PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
So I'm behind, on the threads(was a busy day at work, then a raid night) but I didn't see any mention:

Why does that one clan suddenly help the Wiccans? A sense of honor/respect?


message 24: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Mar 14, 2013 08:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
I think that may become clearer later on. But at this point it appears they are possibly rivals to the attacking clans and also they have some sort of warrior code of honour and the Wickans have earned their respect.


message 25: by Chaz (last edited Mar 15, 2013 03:25AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments I loved this exchange. Khundryl war chief to Coltaine at the beginning of the day:

"We have long awaited this day," the war chief sais. He stood in his stirrups and gestured to the south hills. "Tregyn and Bhilard both, this day." He waved northward. "And Caneld, and Semk, aya, even Tithansi - what's left, that is. The great tribes of the south odhans, yet who among them is the most powerful? The answer is with this day."

"You'd better hurry," Duiker said.
We're running out of soldiers for you to show your prowess on, you pompous bastard

Coltaine seemed to have similar thoughts, though his temper was cooler.
[Remember, to Coltaine, this man has lined up another army for his men to fight and die to today.] "The question belongs to you, nor do I care either way its answer."

"Are such concerns beyond the Wickan clans, then? Are you not yourselves a tribe?"

Coltaine slowly settled the lance's butt in its socket. "No, we are soldiers of the Malazan Empire."


BOOM!

Coltaine and his Wickan people held out against Malazan subjugation for a long time, and fought and died in large numbers to do so. But now, 15 or so years later, he is proud to be a member of the Malazan military. This astonishes me. One of the consistent themes we have seen is the Empire and its armies inspiring incredible loyalty and pride in its most impressive subjects. Loyalty that Laseen doesn't deserve but the Empire somehow does.

@Rob: The Khundryl have shown up today, with all the tribes of the region, tribes with historical disputes that go back generations I'm sure. They want to know, which is the best and this provides an opportunity with all the tribes in the same place to do that. They are less interested in the Whirlwind Apocalypse and taking revenge on the Malazan occupiers, rather they want to make a statement about the Khundryl to all the other tribes.

The Khundryl attack both the two tribes lined up directly in the Chain of Dogs' path and Korbolo Dom's army in their rear. They smash the Tregyn and Bhulard in front and shatter the tribal elements of Korbolo Dom's force, the Semk and Can'eld, but are eventually driven back by KD.

Coltaine to the Khundryl war chief at the end of the day's fighting:

The Fist spoke. "You have your answer, it seems."

"We have it, Blackwing."

"The Khundryl."

Surprise split the warrior's battered face. "You honour us, but no. We strove to break the one named Korbolo Dom, but failed. The answer is not the Khundryl."

"Then you do honour to Korbolo Dom?"

The war chief spat at that, growled his disbelief. "Spirits below! You cannot be such a fool! The answer this day..." The war chief yanked free his tulwar from its leather sheath, revealing a blade snapped ten inches above the hilt. He raised it over his head and bellowed,
"The Wickans! The Wickans! The Wickans!"


It seems that Coltaine, his Wickans and the Seventh are become legends right before our eyes. Even his enemies must praise his incredible courage and strength in this insane endeavour.


message 26: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
@Chaz - Fantastic summary of the Khundryl!


message 27: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

I mean as soon as they came over to talk to Coltaine I expected them to help the Malazans.

I just didn't really understand why they would do that.


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments I thought "wide eyed" meant not just with joy and terror, but also with full awareness of the likely consequences of what they were doing. They are aware that what they are doing is stupid, and they are doing it anyways.

There's still a mystery to me about how Dujek and Quick Ben get their info on Coltaine? The Trygalle (who make the sappers appear positively sane and restrained) mage was not all that clear on the point.


message 29: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Duffy wrote: "I thought "wide eyed" meant not just with joy and terror, but also with full awareness of the likely consequences of what they were doing. They are aware that what they are doing is stupid, and they are doing it anyways."

Exactly.


message 30: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Duffy wrote: "There's still a mystery to me about how Dujek and Quick Ben get their info on Coltaine? The Trygalle (who make the sappers appear positively sane and restrained) mage was not all that clear on the point. "

Not clear at all. But just about everyone on Seven Cities would know there's a war going on so not really a secret. There has been enough TIME - months - for word to get around for a mage at least to discover. We know that exiting a warren in the right place is a question of knowing where you want to go - perhaps it's also a matter of knowing WHO you want to find?

Just speculating


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments perhaps it's also a matter of knowing WHO you want to find?

I'm sure it could work that way too.


message 32: by Hanne (last edited Mar 26, 2013 02:45PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Hanne (hanne2) | 228 comments you guys already said everything there is to say about this chapter. except for one thing perhaps.

my favorite scene here is Coltaine with the sappers.
The Fist turned as Duiker and List approached. 'Ah, this is well. I would have you witness this,
Historian.'
'What have I missed?'
Bult grinned. 'Nothing; we've just managed the prodigious task of assembling the sappers - you'd think battles with Kamist Reloe were tactical nightmares.'


Does look like assembling the sappers is quite the task, and now finally discovering who is supposed to be leading them and be present at staff meetings. Coltaine demoting that guy, which was the right thing to do. Coltaine was clearly out of his depth with these sappers. Gotta love them!


message 33: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Ah yes. The Malazan Sapper is a breed apart.


message 34: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Love the sappers in this book. Throughout the series really. There has to be something a little cracked about them for them to be willing to handle such volatile weapons.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Chaz wrote: "This provides a great contrast to the efficiency philosophy of Dancer and Laseen talked about between Apsalar and Icarium in ch 16."

Good point. Maybe it makes sense to think of them as assassin philosophy and soldier philosophy. I'll be on the lookout for them after this.

The dialogue between Kalam and Quick Ben was a nice touch. Here I've been busting my brains following four or five convoluted storylines, and bam! There's this other continent I'd almost forgotten about, and Hood knows what's happening there, except Quick Ben lost so much blood he's having trouble with sorcery . . .


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments For individual books, having them focus on one continent works really well. Dividing things this way makes the books much more coherent on a standalone basis.

But it is awfully tough when you are trying to keep track of the whole series. Lots of fantasy writers, when they return to a place that they have been away from for a long while, will rehash some introductory material to remind readers how things stood. Since Erikson doesn't bother with the introductory material in the first place, it's perfectly consistent that he assumes his readers have been careful, and remember tons of detail about what took place a few thousand pages ago.

When I first read the series, this was my main criticism of it. On rereading, I'm thinking its one of the main blessings. He's written an epic series that is truly vast, and not just long.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Duffy wrote: "truly vast, and not just long"

Quotable quote! This is my first read of the series, but that's the main thing I like it for so far.


message 38: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
If I could like that quote Duffy I would.


Pepster50 I'm glad this group read is here. I read that passage about Dujek and Laseen and the whole outlawing thing like five times and I just could not understand why Dujek would help Coltaine. The idea that Laseen outlawed Dujek so he could gain allies and defeat the Pannion Domin blew my mind. This also makes me think more highly of Laseen; before I thought she was a terrible tactician, but this strategy makes me think there might be something more there.

Now that leaves the question. Does Dujek and his army know that the outlawing is a ruse? In GOTM I got the sense that Dujek really did want to rebel. I'm guessing we will learn more about this situation in MOI.


message 40: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Does Dujek and his army know that the outlawing is a ruse?

You can certainly make some assumptions on who is in the know. You'll also find out exactly what is going on soon :)

Laseen is certainly and enigma. From such a power base she does seem to do some incredibly stupid things. But then again, you are never sure if you are actually getting all the facts. :)


message 41: by Dara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dara (cmdrdara) | 210 comments I really liked this chapter. I'm proud of myself for keeping up with things and figuring things out on my own - like the Dujek stuff.

I liked the little scene with Quick Ben and Kalam. Sure hope QB pulls through over on Genebakis. I'm interested to know what's going on over there but I am very glad it's not in this book mixed in with the Seven Cities stuff. That would be way too confusing for me.

My only real comment is about Laseen. She's fascinating to me because we only know her from afar (excluding the prologue of GOTM). It's hard to guess if she's terrible or brilliant. We can only judge her by people who knew her - Adjuct Lorn, what Apsalar says from Dancer's memories, things Claws have said. I hope we get to actually spend some time with her at some point in the series.


message 42: by Dara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dara (cmdrdara) | 210 comments Oh and could someone refresh my memory on what an Azath is? Or am I not supposed to know yet? I don't want to check the wiki because of possible spoilers.


message 43: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
I don't think you're supposed to know much about the Azath at this point, but I'm sure David will correct me if I'm wrong.


message 44: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Dara wrote: "Oh and could someone refresh my memory on what an Azath is? Or am I not supposed to know yet? I don't want to check the wiki because of possible spoilers."

The Azath's are living,growing houses of stone - the house that grew in the courtyard in GoTM and imprisoned the Tyrant is an Azath. Tremorlor in this book that Fiddler and co have been defending is an Azath. The Azath has been grabbing soletaken with it's roots and branches but there are so many that it needed defenders to help it. They typically grow to keep magical power in check - the grounds of an Azath will try to capture and imprison anyone with power who wanders in. There is supposed to be one on every continent and they are supposed to be linked so that one can travel between them instantaneously.
Deadhouse is the name of the Azath in Malaz city - Kellanved and Dancer are said to have used it as a headquarters. Time also stands still in an Azath.

That's what we know up to this point anyway - a few quotes

Raraku has a heart, Quick Ben said. Tremorlor, a House of the Azath.

‘A House of the Azath.’
‘Like the one that arose in Darujhistan?’
‘Aye. Such buildings exist – or are rumoured to exist – on virtually every continent.

‘Well enough. In any case, it’s Quick Ben’s belief that such Houses are all linked to one another, via gates of some sort. And that travel between them is possible – virtually instantaneous travel—’

‘There are some who claim the Azath are in truth benign, a force to keep power in check, that they arise where and when there is need.

‘My friend, Azath Houses seek to imprison all who possess power – do you fathom what you risk?’



message 45: by Dara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dara (cmdrdara) | 210 comments Ah okay. Thanks. I wasn't sure if Azath was an ascendant controlling the house or a god controlling. It's all clear now.


message 46: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Dara wrote: "Ah okay. Thanks. I wasn't sure if Azath was an ascendant controlling the house or a god controlling. It's all clear now."

Really? I'm several books ahead and it's not all clear to me. I don't think we know what the source of the Azath's power is.


message 47: by Dara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dara (cmdrdara) | 210 comments Well I mean that at this point, the Azath house is its own thing. David cleared up for me that (as of now) isn't controlled by an ascendant/god. It may change at some point.


message 48: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
I don't think you can say one way or another if a god controls it.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Dara wrote: "II'm interested to know what's going on over there but I am very glad it's not in this book mixed in with the Seven Cities stuff. That would be way too confusing for me."

Even Steven Erikson draws the line somewhere :)

Well-stated point about Laseen, too.


message 50: by Bas (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bas (basdr) | 39 comments So I'll be saying some words now, it's been a while since I posted anything. I'm really enjoying DG, esspecially with all the story lines racing to a climax.

For me, Laseen almost seems like this mysterious figure in the background. We got a few glimpses of her in GotM but we don't see anything from her point of view. The tidbits of info we get about her are always from other people. And those people may be biased, if you hear information about Laseen from Duiker it would be totally different than learning about Laseen from Kalam. But who's right? We have to make our own conclusions, at least until we might get some more insight when we actually see Laseen again.


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