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Deadhouse Gates (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #2)
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Group Read - Deadhouse Gates > DG - Chapter Eighteen - NO SPOILERS

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message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Spoilers up to chapter Eighteen are ok.
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).

I stood in a place
where all shadows converged
the end of the Path of Hands
Soletaken and D'ivers
through the gates of truth
where from the darkness
all mysteries emerged.
The Path
Trout Sen'al'Bhok'arala


Lori I'm loving the poetry this time because I understand it. The add more resonance if you once you know their full meanig which you can't without having read it before.

But where did Arellock come from, suddenly he is talking, have I completely missed his previous reappearance or has he suddenly turned up with Fiddler and crew?


Chaz | 297 comments Rellock is Apsalar's father, previously known as Servant.

From the last couple of pages of ch15:

Mappo spoke, "Do you have a name, Servant?"

The old man grimaced. "Rellock." Glancing back to Fiddler, he shook his head. "I can't guess the High Priest's motives. I only did what I was told. A final task for the High Priest, one to clear the debt and I always clears my debts, even to gods."



message 4: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Lori, I agree. On my first read Shelley nagged me constantly about skipping the poems. To be honest, I think the poems are wonderful the second time through because they foretell a lot and for first time readers they just have no meaning.


Lori Well darn, I confuddled Rellock and Rallick!


message 6: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Short Chapters + SC2 expansion/raid night tomorrow means I did a second chapter tonight.

I'm curious about the deal that Felsin apparently made to keep herself in control. It seems like it's all a plot for her vengeance against her sister, but what does she have to give up in return?


message 7: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Her words seem to call up terrible memories. And images, faces - companions, countless in number. As if I have rarely been alone. Men and women have walked at my side, sometimes singly, sometimes in legion. These memories fill me with grief, as if in some way I have betrayed every one of those companions.' He paused, and Mappo saw his head slowly nod. 'Indeed, I understand this now. They were all guardians, like you, Mappo. And they all failed. Were, perhaps, killed by my own hand.'

wow! Just wow! Think about that for a minute.


message 8: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Her words seem to call up terrible memories. And images, faces - companions, countless in number. As if I have rarely been alone. Men and women have walked at my side, sometimes singly, sometimes i..."

Yeah - it appears Mappo is not the first guardian and quite possibly some of his predecessors were killed in Icarium's rages.

And we meet a couple of the Nameless Ones - they don't look to healthy

They came upon the four bodies at the edge of an upthrust of roots that seemed to mark the entrance to a vast maze. The figures were contorted, limbs shattered, their dark robes twisted and stiff with dried blood.

Overrun it seems by the convergence of soletaken


We learn a bit more about these Nameless ones.

Nameless Ones . . . Priests of the Azath, if such entities can have priests. How many cold hands have guided us here? Myself . . . Icarium . . . these two twisted roots . . . journeying to Tremorlor—


Icarium comments that he has seen these Nameless Ones in a dream where they have slaughtered a Trell Town.

“What have you done?” I ask her.
‘“Only what is necessary,” is her soft reply. I see in her face a great fear as she looks upon me, and I am saddened by it. “Jhag, you must not wander alone.”


Icarium firmly believes it was the Nameless Ones who destroyed the town - Mappo has been told by the Nameless ones that it was Icarium - who is telling the truth?
Icarium's memory is unreliable - but this is a dream he has - not a conscious memory. In his dream his sword is clean. But the Nameless Ones magic staff is bleeding sorcery and Great Ravens are feeding off the slaughter (from the first book we know That the Great Ravens feed of sorcery) - suggesting the town was killed by sorcery - not by Icarium's sword. Hmmmm.

If we go with the dream as being reliable then it might mean that the Nameless Ones slaughtered Mappo's town to draw him out from the wild to be Icarium's guardian.


We also learn that Kellanved scoured the Malazan Empire of the Nameless Ones. It appears these self appointed guardians of the Azath were not happy that the Emperor entered the Deadhouse and used the Azath's


We also learn that Shadowthrone had a deal with the Azath house somehow. Something along the lines of - You ensnare all these soultaken coming your way - and I'll give you Icarium.

If bargains could be struck with a House of the Azath, then Shadowthrone had managed it. The Hounds would not be taken – as much as Tremorlor would have yearned for such prizes, for the abrupt and absolute removal of these ancient killers – no, the deal involved a much greater prize ...

Shadowthrone likes making deals.


And we meet our friendly Rat swarm divers (the one that reduced Kulp to bones in the desert).
Fiddler pulls out his last cusser only to discover its the conch shell given to him by the Tano Spiritwalker - only he finds out after he tosses it. And it does the job better than any Cusser acting as a kind of smart bomb - and we are left to wonder what other consequences releasing the Tano song will have.


What a wild ride through the Maze. Arms and bodies grasping out at everything from within knarled roots.


And Felisin has been possessed by the Whirlwind Goddess - receiving the memories of her predecessor "Sha'ik Elder."
Her three High Mages are a loathsome lot except for maybe L'oric. Bithidal raped Sha'ik as a child and Febryl tried to poison her.

Anyway Tremorlor is in sight and Fiddler is aiming to get inside so he can fast travel to the DeadHouse in Malaz.


message 9: by Vi (new) - rated it 4 stars

Vi | 8 comments I'm finally caught up!

To tell the truth, I don't see the significance of the poems every single time. I've skipped some that were too long. *ducks*

A lot of revelations - I'm digging Icarium and Mappo.


message 10: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Vi - I gave up on the poems first read, they were really meaningless except maybe to cast a mood.


message 11: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Me too. I don't think I read a single poem first time seriously. Now I'm eating them up but I think they are a lot more difficult to appreciate for some first time. A lot of them provide background which is good, but a lot give cryptic clues and foreshadowing that is difficult to remember unless you have already read the series and are familiar with what is being foreshadowed.


message 12: by Juniper (last edited Mar 14, 2013 06:30AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments I much prefer this Felisin to the former. It seems Sha'ik was good for her.

Icarium firmly believes it was the Nameless Ones who destroyed the town - Mappo has been told by the Nameless ones that it was Icarium - who is telling the truth?
Icarium's memory is unreliable - but this is a dream he has - not a conscious memory. In his dream his sword is clean. But the Nameless Ones magic staff is bleeding sorcery and Great Ravens are feeding off the slaughter (from the first book we know That the Great Ravens feed of sorcery) - suggesting the town was killed by sorcery - not by Icarium's sword. Hmmmm.


This is very interesting. Perhaps Icarium isn't the one to blame for everything that has happened in the past.

Also, I have forgot to mention this every time, but I love how the characters encounter ruin cities. In some ruin cities (Pompei and Ercolano for instance) the spirit remains in the air, and it is so overwhelming to feel it. I keep thinking about that when I read about them.

I'm reading the poems, but most of them don't make much sense to me.


message 13: by Vi (new) - rated it 4 stars

Vi | 8 comments Good to know, Lori. Though it is frustrating not to be able to understand the references.


message 14: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
@ Kat, Icarium might be a perfect scapegoat when you want something destroyed. Level a village and claim you saw a half blood Jaghut leaving the ruins. Just like Oponn gets the blame when you trip over your laces.


message 15: by Juniper (last edited Mar 14, 2013 03:28PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments Especially since he can't remember what he's done. He can't even deny that he did anything unless someone vouches for him.


message 16: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Like the mother of all hangovers


message 17: by Juniper (last edited Mar 14, 2013 05:49PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments You have no idea of how much I needed that laugh. Thank you, that's just... wonderful. Haha!


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments Forget about denying. Who is going to take the risk of accusing him and maybe making him mad?


Hanne (hanne2) | 228 comments OK - i can't wait for a sisterly showdown. felisin is really growing on me here. what she did with those three High Mages, classy! :)

But i loved this scene most of all:
Fiddler hesitated. The deal, Mappo. Icarium made his wishes plain . . . ‘Call them off, Pust,’ he said, moving towards the nervous stand-off. He plunged one hand into his munition bag and swung the leather sack around until he clutched it against his stomach. ‘Got one last cusser, and those Hounds could be made of solid marble, it won’t save ’em when I fall down on what I’m holding here.’
‘Damned sappers! Who invented them? Madness!’
Fiddler grinned. ‘Who invented them? Why, Kellanved, who else – who Ascended to become your god, Pust. I’d have thought you’d appreciate the irony, High Priest.’


if you deal in shadows, you never know what you're going to get!


message 20: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Felisin is a fantastic character. Yes she's an awful bitch as previously discussed but I find her compelling and interesting throughout. That sisterly showdown will be one to watch.


Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Guess I'll have to look back through the poems after finishing the series. They sure are opaque now! Can't say I like them as poetry, either. The one(s?) in Dune were clunkier, but I wish that for the chapter openers Erikson had followed Herbert's example and stuck to prose.

The passage with the three mages sure was memorable. I notice that for once we get a proper introduction to some characters the first time they appear. Now they'd better be important later on or I'll sue lol.


message 22: by Kory (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kory | 21 comments The book is really picking up momentum. I love the description of Tremorlor. I picture a Giger and Mirkwood mashup.


message 23: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Silvio, yes, to be honest the poems are hard to decipher first time through and re-readers will tell you that there is lots of info there. But it is hard to take it in and remember it when it means completely nothing to you. Second time through the poems are awesome, but you need the experience of the whole series. Which makes it freaking amazing since there is huge amount of time between book one and ten being written.


message 24: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
I think the poems as well as The Deck of Dragons readings are about as close as we get to an Omniscient POV. The only problem is they are often cryptic to the point they are near inaccessible on a first read.


message 25: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Totally agree. I knew the deck readings were of utmost importance but couldn't make sense of them tho I tried to the point of frustration. I knew they would mean something as I read along, and made a conscious effort to remember them, but couldn't. Same with the poems. Altho with the poems I noted this time that many are written by others, and I wondered how reliable they are? Similar to the conflicting POVS, ex when Tool talks about the past of the Tiste, we shouldn't take that as fact.


message 26: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
You are right about the poems Lori. They are POV perspectives as well. Though I would probably place more weight on the poems than the historical entries because the latter often indulge in more speculations. I think.


message 27: by Beth (new) - rated it 4 stars

Beth (bethd) | 3 comments Chaz wrote: "Felisin is a fantastic character. Yes she's an awful bitch as previously discussed but I find her compelling and interesting throughout. That sisterly showdown will be one to watch."

I completely agree about Felisin. The more I saw of her the more I wanted to see of her. (I just joined the group, and I'm a little bit behind...). I can't wait to see that sisterly showdown!


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