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message 1: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
I have been in a DFW state of mind recently. This started with his death last year. I have read many of his works before his death but never his magnum opus Infinite Jest A Novel. I am now reading it and finding it much better than I expected (I wasn't blown away by The Broom of the System).

I was casually browsing the news this morning when I came across this article about crabs feeling pain: http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/2...

This of course reminded me of DFW's article Consider the Lobster. I located it on gourmet.com and thought I would share it with you.

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s...

Enjoy.





message 2: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
I'm pretty sure that essay is in the book Consider the Lobster And Other Essays.

(I know, I know, I need to scan and upload that article on him from The New Yorker. I should be able to do it this weekend. It really is excellent.)

The 'story' printed in that issue is actually an excerpt out of his next novel. He was writing about boredom. It was far shorter than Infinite Jest; the article talks about what he was aware of and shooting for in this most recent work, based on letters/emails.

What we live for. What gives us purpose and meaning. Direction. Inspiration. Reason to go on. These questions seem so desperately, tragically relevant.

At first the main character's purpose seems to be focused on his child, of whom there is a picture on his desk, but you get the distinct feeling as you read on that this is, simply, not enough... which made me think -- the things we are taught to believe will give us what we seek so rarely do that for us. So even though reading about boredom and repetition in life isn't exactly dance around the room fun, in a way I think that the short excerpt I did read pointed out the doldrums that make up most of life. In that way, I think he achieves his goal of capturing what life is really like.

I'm not sure if I have that right or not, because I haven't read a ton of DFW.

Anyway, I'll get my act together and post this to Doucet's Mobile Me area.


message 3: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Dan wrote: "I have been in a DFW state of mind recently. This started with his death last year. I have read many of his works before his death but never his magnum opus [b:Infinite Jest A Novel|6759|Infinite ..."

I got a lot of DFW up on the group's shared drive. Brian, can you post the link again?
mm




message 4: by James (new)

James Othmer (jamespothmer) | 39 comments Michael wrote: "Dan wrote: "I have been in a DFW state of mind recently. This started with his death last year. I have read many of his works before his death but never his magnum opus [b:Infinite Jest A Novel|67..."

The New Yorker piece was well done and sad and disturbing to the point that it kept me up for several nights. I've be revisiting IJ and reading the essays in A Supposedly Fun Thing... I'm curious to see how they'll publish the unfinished novel.


message 5: by Martyn (new)

Martyn | 299 comments I've never read any of this chap's works...and to be honest, I didn't have a clue who he was until he died...which is kinda sad...but Infinite Jest is on my 'to read sometime before i die' list.

I think I'd like his stuff.


message 6: by Brian, just a child's imagination (new)

Brian (banoo) | 346 comments Mod
lotsa of dfw stuff here: http://public.me.com/brian_doucet


message 7: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Finally!

I just uploaded the March 9 New Yorker article that includes an excerpt of his upcoming posthumous novel. I almost split them up, but they kinda go together. Worth the time spent reading. The document is in the David_F_Wallace_Articles folder, called New Yorker_March 2009.pdf. Enjoy...


message 8: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Shel wrote: "Finally!

I just uploaded the March 9 New Yorker article that includes an excerpt of his upcoming posthumous novel. I almost split them up, but they kinda go together. Worth the time spent reading...."


Thanks!




message 9: by Michael, the Olddad (last edited Apr 11, 2009 01:10PM) (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
So Dan, how is "Infinite Jest" going? Shel's recent New Yorker article on DFW's posthumous "The Pale King" was fascinating. Had a nice long excerpt from the as yet unpublished novel which I would definitely recommend reading.

Hope everyone is having a good holiday!
mm




message 10: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Infinite Jest is really a gem. I didn't expect to like it as much as I am (this despite Patty's glowing praise). I have laughed quite hard on a number of occasions, been horrified by events that have taken place and have been thoroughly confused by different scenes, characters and dialogue.

I am about 650 pages in and have no idea where the next 400 pages are going to take me. I am really glad to have finally gotten around to it.

I found the receipt for the book tucked away in one of the pages. I bought it in March 2006 along with Consider the Lobster which I read right away. IJ was just sitting there intimidating me from the shelf for three years. I am glad I finally picked it up.


message 11: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Much like it's sitting on my nightstand, and has been for 3 months...

I feel like I might be too distracted by other books and things to really get into it right now. Seems like the kind of book that really needs your focus...


message 12: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
It does require your focus a bit but not as much in my opinion as say Tolstoy or Dostoevsky. I didn't get a chance to read it much for about a week and was easily able to jump back in. I also read The Big Sleep yesterday and don't foresee any problems picking up where I left off.

You just need to stop in a good place. It's overall size does get in the way of reading anything else though.


message 13: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Dan-

I went back and reread Infinite Jest in December/January and found it even more enjoyable the second time... and sadder. (It's also one of the most humanely empathetic books I've ever read... if you get a chance to read his essay on Dostoevsky in the "Consider the Lobster" collection, definitely pick it up. It gives a clear sense of what he was up to Infinite Jest, I think.)

Look forward to hearing your take on it. Hal or Gately or Joelle Van Dyne... each is so beautifully rendered.


message 14: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
You know, I remember reading his article on D but can't remember the specifics. I need to see if I can find my copy of Consider the Lobster. I think it may be the casualty of one too many moves since I don't remember seeing it in the past year or so.

I am surprised how a book this long can remain engaging. As each page turns your feelings for each of the characters grows. I am actually afraid to see what happens to Hal.

Gately's story line has trailed off after the battle with the Canucks and at page 700 you just aren't given enough information yet on Joelle.

There is so much still to take in learn and understand. I am glad there are still about 300 pages left for this to happen.

I don't mean to gush but this book is definitely a major accomplishment. I had no idea and really no expectation that it would live up to the hype.


message 15: by Keith (new)

Keith Dixon (keithwdixon) | 44 comments i hate to pee in the punch bowl, but i must confess i wasn't as taken by his new yorker excerpt as i have been in the past by his nonfiction works.

the subject matter seems to be problematic here -- he is trying to revisit the subject of boredom, is he not? and the problem is that boredom -- like sex -- is difficult to write about, because you don't experience boredom (or sex) with the intellect, but in the writing they're presented that way.

that's why i like his nonfiction so much -- he's able to give that explosive intellect of his free-rein to engage whatever subject is presented, whether it be the strange micro-world of a cruise ship or the death throes of a lobster.


message 16: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
My reading of IJ has slowed to a crawl do to being busy with a bunch of crap. I did happen to see these DFW related Obits and Recollections on McSweeney's website and thought I would share.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/dfw/tribute...

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/dfw/memorie...

More thoughts on things later.


message 17: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
As I have said my reading time has diminished recently but I got some reading done today.

I was really stuck by the switch of perspective offered when we start seeing things from Joelle's POV. Particularly her take on the Incandeza family during Thanksgiving dinner. I have spent 700+ pages of thinking of the Incandeza family from an internal perspective and now I have seen them from the outside. Pretty cool, if ya ask me.


message 18: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Dan wrote: "As I have said my reading time has diminished recently but I got some reading done today.

I was really stuck by the switch of perspective offered when we start seeing things from Joelle's POV. Pa..."


Great thing about her POV too is that you get a better insight into her and her significance to each member of the family.


message 19: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
You are definitely right about this Hugh. I was surprised at her being annoyed by Hal since I was always fascinated by his grammatical talk and conversations with Orin. After hearing her take on Hal I can see how he could come across as annoying.

Her perspective and significance to each character gives each if the Incandezas a 3D feel which I can't remember getting in other recent novels.


message 20: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Dan wrote: "You are definitely right about this Hugh. I was surprised at her being annoyed by Hal since I was always fascinated by his grammatical talk and conversations with Orin. After hearing her take on Ha..."

My copy of IJ just came in the mail. I'm off to Taos and points north and west come June and fully expect to have the reading time for this tome. Dan's feedback has really got me stoked that these 1200 pages are going to fly.




message 21: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Making progress, some more horrible accidents and suicide. Pretty insane stuff. Also of note at the 800+ page mark the back cover has started to come undone. A little tape fixed that issue though.

Who else has read a paperback copy and did it start falling apart on you? I imagine a book this big is hard to bind effectively in paperback.


message 22: by Patty, free birdeaucrat (new)

Patty | 896 comments Mod
Dan wrote: "Making progress, some more horrible accidents and suicide. Pretty insane stuff. Also of note at the 800+ page mark the back cover has started to come undone. A little tape fixed that issue though.
..."


i don't think it was ever published in any other sort of binding. mine held together.

i did think that the editors should have given a little more thought to how they printed the footnotes. if they'd put them at the end of each section or at the bottom of pages, it would have been much easier for me to read. and i could have split it in half, and made it much more portable for the subway.




message 23: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Patty wrote: "i did think that the editors should have given a little more thought to how they printed the footnotes. if they'd put them at the end of each section or at the bottom of pages, it would have been much easier for me to read. and i could have split it in half, and made it much more portable for the subway. "

I wonder if this was the author's choice? I would imagine if they put them at the bottom of the page the book would look more like house of leaves with the giant footnotes that would take over for a time.

I was reading last night in the supine position and finally realized how big the book is by the weight of it on my chest. It was actually uncomfortable.


message 24: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
It's done. It took 43 days though I snuck in The Big Sleep somewhere in that time frame.

As I have said before, I didn't think I would like this book but I did for the most part. I was pleasantly surprised by how much most of the endnotes added to the novel without being annoying or getting in the way of the plot.

The characters were great and I was really into each of their plights/lives/story. This goes for many of the minor characters as well. Because there are more than 100 pages of end notes I didn't expect the end of the novel to come when it did.

The book ended abruptly, without explanation without conclusion and for me somewhat unsatisfactorily. It is possible I am completely stupid but I couldn't explain what happened to anyone. What about Joelle? Why did Hal become what he was in the beginning of the book?

I feel that Gatley's story makes the most sense. I don't really know what else to say. If someone who has read this book could explain anything about the way this book ended I would be happy.

I remember feeling this way about the ending of Broom of the System except I wasn't that enthralled with the story from the beginning.

In conclusion, I would say that Infinite Jest was brilliant for most of the time but was a lot of work and reading to be left thinking, "What the fuck?!?" at the end.


message 25: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Dan wrote: "It's done. It took 43 days though I snuck in The Big Sleep somewhere in that time frame.

As I have said before, I didn't think I would like this book but I did for the most part. I was pleasantly ..."


Dan, RE the ending. You should read the New Yorker article on DFW which Shel posted recently. It's out on the shared drive Brian's has donated to the group. Goes into the editing of IJ and specifically talks about various iterations that were proposed for the ending.




message 26: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Dan, I second Michael's comment on the article... there's a connection with the Broom of the System ending.... Gately's is (relatively, I suppose) the most relentlessly tragic death -- that he fights so hard to avoid the painkillers, that he is killed as a result of another resident's lying/addiction.... In some ways, ending the book with Gately made the most sense. Hal has actually shown up to try and get some help (since his family seems unable/unwilling (depending on the relation) to help him)... and in some ways, (it's been a few months now... doesn't Gately's death galvanize Joelle?

[One scene that gets to me every time I read it is Hal at night, finally copping to his mentally challenged brother about his addiction....

'Hey Hal?'
'Yes, Mario.'
'I'm sorry if you're sad, Hal. You seem sad.'
'I smoke high-resin Bob Hope in secret by myself down in the Pump Room off the secondary maintenance tunnel. I use Visine and mint toothpaste and shower with Irish spring to hide it from almost everyone. Only Pemulis knows the true extent.'
'...'
[What follows are nearly three pages of Hal walking through what he sees as the inevitable consequences about to happen because of his addiction -- but also how much he's afraid the news will hurt his mother, just the way he believes he's hurt his brother...:]

'Hey Hal?'
'And of course you're hurt, Boo, that I've tried to hide all of it from you.'
'I'm zero percent hurt, Hal.'
'And of course you're wondering why I didn't just tell you when of course you knew anyway, knew something....You sitting there letting me say I was just really really tired and nightmare-ridden.'
'I feel like you always tell me the truth. You tell me when it's right to.'
'Marvelous.'
'I feel like you're the only one who knows when it's right to tell. I can't know for you so why should I be hurt.'
'Be a fucking human being for once, Boo. I room with you and I hid it from you and let you worry and be hurt that I was trying to hide it.'
'I wasn't hurt. I don't want you to be sad.'
'You can get hurt and mad at people, Boo. News-flash at almost nineteen, kid. It's called being a person. You don't have to put on a Moms-act of total trust and forgiveness. One liar's enough....'

[Whereupon we learn of how he's torn between his mother learning and this yawning hole the addiction is making in him....:]

'And the hole's going to get a little bigger every day until I fly apart in different directions. I'll fly apart in midair. I'll fly apart in the Lung or at Tucson at 200 degrees in front of all these people who knew [dad:] and think I'm different. Whom I've lied to, and liked it. It'll all come out anyway, clean pee or no'
'Hey Hal?'
'And it'll kill her. I know it will. It will kill her dead, Booboo, I'm afraid.'
'Hey Hal? What are you going to do?'
"..."
"Hal?'
"Booboo, I'm up on my elbow again. Tell me what you think I should do.'
"Me tell you?'
'I'm just two big aprick ears right here, Boo. Listening. Because I do not know what to do.'
'Hal, if I tell you the truth, will you get mad and tell me be a fucking?'
'I trust you. You're smart, Boo.'
'Then Hal?'
'Tell me what I should do.'
'I think you just did it. What you should do. I think you just did.'
'...'
'Do you see what I mean?'


message 27: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
So the more I have been thinking about the book the more I am coming to be less disappointed by the ending. I read read the article from the New Yorker which helped as well.


Hugh, was Gately's death explicitly stated? I didn't feel certain that he died in the end. Did I miss Something?

I found this link to a discussion on Infinite Jest right here on Goodreads. There are some interesting posts. Especially with those dealing with identifying the narrator of the book (many believe it to be J.O.I.)

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/9...

I have also read in various blogs and posts to reread the first 50ish pages of the book to get a better sense of an ending. Looks like I will be cracking it open again.


message 28: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Also just saw this:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs...

Two manuscript pages from The Pale King.


message 29: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Dan wrote:

Hugh, was Gately's de..."


Dan, you're right. Gately's death wasn't explicitly stated but so much of the build in that scene -- and his relation to other characters made me assume he did die. But it's not explicit.


message 30: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Oh, and from what I've read Joelle is based on Mary Karr whom Wallace dated while at Syracuse (if the story is right both were in recovery at the same time).


message 31: by Greg (new)

Greg Ippolito (gregippolito) | 52 comments I've never read his fiction, but "Consider the Lobster and Other Essays" is tremendous. I love the serpentine mental pathways he carves out as he considers topics and constructs arguments. (If I'd've known you could do that, my school term papers woulda been much better -- and surely would've earned Fs.)

Franzen has a similar nonfiction style, though not nearly as multi-directional. Allow me to recommend his nonfiction essay collection "How To Be Alone." Good shit (especially his piece on the whole Oprah Book Club fiasco, called "Meet Me In St. Louis").

-G


message 32: by Greg (new)

Greg Ippolito (gregippolito) | 52 comments Also, the last line of "The View From Mrs. Thompson's" accounts for the last time in recent memory that a piece of writing actually made me cry. And I mean, I REALLY cried. Took me a few minutes to pull myself together afterward.


message 33: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Shel if you are preparing for reading IJ you might be ready in time to get in on this:

http://www.infinitesummer.org/

I don't know exactly what the experience is going to be like but the book itself is pretty damn amazing.


message 34: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (last edited May 27, 2009 10:00AM) (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Totally signed up for that one on FB. Looks like fun.

I think I'm ready for it. I think. 75 pages a week is nothing, in other books... I expect it to be "something" with this one, of course. 11 pages a day, I can do, while writing, running the short story thread, and other stuff.


message 35: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
Yeah you should have no problem doing 11 pages a day. I averaged about 25 i think. you may run into the problem of not being able to stop reading...


message 36: by Dan, deadpan man (new)


message 37: by Patty, free birdeaucrat (new)

Patty | 896 comments Mod
Greg wrote: "Also, the last line of "The View From Mrs. Thompson's" accounts for the last time in recent memory that a piece of writing actually made me cry. And I mean, I REALLY cried. Took me a few minutes ..."

this got me to finally read this book. i was either saving it for a rainy day or avoiding it, i'm not sure which. i think it's because i had already considered the lobster, and didn't think reading about someone else considering the lobster would be good for my mental health.

i thought the best essay in the book, the best essay ever was the one on Usage.

incidentally, i went to rockland maine over the weekend. i didn't eat any lobster, but i did have delicous radishes with butter and salt.


message 38: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Patty, I need to get that radish recipe...! I keep buying them because they look so pretty, but then I get them home and can't figure out what the hell to do with them.

I joined Infinite Summer. I think I'm supposed to start reading... yesterday...?


message 39: by Patty, free birdeaucrat (new)

Patty | 896 comments Mod
Shel wrote: "Patty, I need to get that radish recipe...! I keep buying them because they look so pretty, but then I get them home and can't figure out what the hell to do with them."

get some really fresh cream butter, spread it on whole raw radish, dip in a little bit of crushed sea salt. :D


message 40: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Ooooohhhh YUM. On the list. Right now. Vermont, Irish or French butter. Sea salt... YUM. Wow. I'm hungry.


message 41: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Patty wrote: "i thought the best essay in the book, the best essay ever was the one on Usage.
"


Yes! Who knew reading dictionaries could be so fun!! DFW at his best in this essay; the subtext on his family’s SNOOTy background which grows in the footnotes is a great counterpoint to his evolving, scholarly, argument in the main text, and serves as a great wink and nod to the author's pretensions.

There is some debate on the internet as to his conclusions - they make him out a grammar Nazi, where I see him making quite the opposite argument, i.e. that one must live multiple grammars (down to a personal grammar?) His initial catalog of possible “Discourse Communities” is a hoot: “And the United States obviously has a huge number of such Discourse Communities, many of them regional and/or cultural dialects of English: Black English, Latino English, Rural Southern, Urban Southern, Standard Upper-Midwest, Maine Yankee, East-Texas Bayou, Boston BlueCollar, on and on. Everybody knows this…Plus, of course, there are innumerable sub- and subsubdialects based on all sorts of things that have nothing to do with locale or ethnicity — Medical-School English, Peorians-Who-Follow-Pro-Wrestling-Closely English, Twelve-Year-Old-Males-Whose-Worldview-Is-Deeply-Informed-By-South-Park English…”

This essay can be found online here: http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave...

I’d be interested to hear other people’s opinions on the conclusions he reaches in this fun and thoughtful piece.

mm



message 42: by Michael, the Olddad (last edited Jun 19, 2009 03:48AM) (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Infinite Jest is really heating up. Rounded the corner on page 200 recently and the book has gone from difficult to good to GREAT. It has really got my attention now and I just want to stop doing everything else and lay about and read it. I can see why all the fuss. This 1000 page puppy is excellent. RIP DFW.
mm


message 43: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
Michael wrote: "Infinite Jest is really heating up. Rounded the corner on page 200 recently and the book has gone from difficult to good to GREAT. It has really got my attention now and I just want to stop doing..."

Are you doing... is anyone else doing... www.infinitesummer.org? I re-read IJ in January but am thinking of being a part of this.


message 44: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
Hugh wrote: "Are you doing... is anyone else doing... www.infinitesummer.org? I re-read IJ in January but am thinking of being a part of this.

Good tip Hugh. THANKS! I hadn't picked up on the whole Hamlet parallel, but now that I have it is like a bright light going off. I am enjoying this book - but I am afraid Wittgenstein's Mistress is going to waste because of it.

Thanks again.
mm




message 45: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
I've only really begun to realize just how inredibly layered Infinite Jest is on this THIRD reading with the Infinite Summer group. (It's only the 1st week, so if folks are interested....)

Maybe it's the fact the group has slowed my reading down and made me a little more intentional, but I got to page 32 and a scene I had simply read through in which Hal receives a cryptic call from his brother...

(Hal)'s way of answering the phone sounded like "Mmmmyellow."

"I want to tell you," the voice on the phone said. "My head is filled with things to say."

Hal held three pairs of E.T.A. sweatpants in the hand that didn't hold the phone. He saw his older brother succumb to gravity and fall back limp against the pillows. Mario often sat up and fell back asleep.

"I don't mind," Hal said softly. "I could wait forever."

"That's what you think," the voice said. The connection was cut. It had been Orin.



This time out... I reread it and thought: "It's the Beatles!" The George Harrison-penned song: "I Want To Tell You."

Here in this family of screwed up communication between family members -- the two oldest boys communicate with song lyrics.

What makes the joke work so well is the last line of the section when Mario, the youngest brother, asks who it was.

He said: "No one you know, I don't think."


message 46: by Shel, ad astra per aspera (new)

Shel (shelbybower) | 946 comments Mod
Wow. I just read the chapter about Erdedy waiting for his pot... that was just excruciating. And then Orin and the roaches - I could hardly read that one through. That was just so... gross...I still have the willies... and then that brief, horrifying Wardine passage and Bruce Green and Mildred... and the conversationalist passage...

How many characters are in this book, anyway? Should I be writing this down or drawing a chart?


message 47: by Hugh, aka Hugh the Moderator (new)

Hugh | 271 comments Mod
I would definitely recommend writing down characters. (And their associations since the story moves to so many different settings)... The image of the all the overturned glasses holding dead roaches was definitely gruesome.... There's a lot more of those passages like Erdedy.


message 48: by Michael, the Olddad (new)

Michael (olddad) | 255 comments Mod
For all the pain and suffering, this is turning out to be quite a funny book. I think the episode that finally won me over was the phone call between Hal and Orin, where Hal was grooming his toenails. After that it has all been downhill for me.


message 49: by Dan, deadpan man (new)

Dan | 641 comments Mod
That phone call was absolutely hilarious. How are ya coming along with the book?

I think I finished IJ sometime in April and I often find myself thinking about it. In fact I have probably thought more about this book after finishing it than any other book I have read (Sometimes a Great Notion is second).

I would like to hear some opinions about the inclusion of some of the less obviously connected scenes in the book. The few pages with the extreme accents and the scene that Shel mentioned with Erdedy waiting for the pot. I know there are a few other scenes like this in the book too that I cannot remember. Why did DFW have them there? How does it enhance the experience?


message 50: by Patty, free birdeaucrat (new)

Patty | 896 comments Mod
that pot scene is actually one of my favorite sections of the book. my other favorite is the t.v. addiction section. i've gone back to read the t.v. section by itself a couple of times. to me, it seemed to really stand apart from the rest of the novel when i read it, but actually if you try to read it independently of the rest of the novel, it seems kind of flimsy. it doesn't have the same impact at all. so it must be more integrated than i originally thought.


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