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Deadhouse Gates
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DG - Chapter Three - NO SPOILERS
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Meanwhile Kalam is splitting up from his friends to take this book to someone and Fiddler's not happy about it.
I'm still not too sure what the hell is going on yet, but I'm starting to get into more at least.
Rob wrote: "We catch back up with Felisin who has taken to trading sex for favors.Meanwhile Kalam is splitting up from his friends to take this book to someone and Fiddler's not happy about it.
I'm still no..."
See, Rob, Erikson is just laying the foundation. It is gonna start crackin' pretty quick.
After this and CH4, I'm really keen to see where things are going for Felisin and Heboric/Baudin. Felisin seems to have fallen pretty hard, and I can't tell for sure but she certainly seems to be thinking she's way more in control of things than she is. On one hand the things she's taking "credit" for make complete sense, but SE definitely seems to be giving suggestions that there's way more to it than she can see.Iskaral Pust... must. Get. SPIDERS.
I hate spiders. :(I just want to leave that place before the spiders show up.
My favorite thing in this chapter is the conversation where Fiddler says he doesn't think that deeply, but then admits that if Kalam hadn't thought of it, then surely Quick Ben would have.Also, this time I'm finding Pust even more hilarious.
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As Rob has pointed out, Felisin is trading sex to make sure her and her two friends are taken care of. Heboric is none too pleased and the fact that it is probably saving his life doesn't help him with it.
The Empires plan for Heboric is that he expire as quickly as possible in the mine.
It was clear that Sawark had received orders to see the historian dead. Nothing so overt as murder – the political risks were too great for that – rather, the slow, wasting death of poor diet and overwork.
But Felisin has thoughts of taking revenge against her sister telling herself...
One day you’ll find yourself face to face with your sister, and an ocean of blood pouring from Tavore’s veins won’t be enough
But Baudin seems to have brokered his own arrangement with Beneth
...and now stood close to Beneth as well. Some kind of arrangement had been made between them. When Beneth was not there to protect her, Baudin was.
Also Baudin and Heboric have got a plan of their own cooked up
The two were planning something, but it was not this that shook her. It was that she was being excluded. A flash of anger followed this realization. I’ve kept them alive! I’ve made their lives easier –
But her two friends are big boys now. Maybe they don't need her as much as she thinks. And what are they cooking up? Maybe it has something to do with this conversation on the mainland
‘It’s done,’ he said, as if the admission amounted to a confession of foul murder. ‘Word has been sent in.(to the mine) Assuming your friend(Heboric) is still alive, he’ll receive his instructions.’
‘Thank you, Kulp.’
We also learn a bit more about Otataral.
If not natural, then what? Heboric grinned. Otataral, the bane of magic, was born of magic.
and whatever magic created it was strong enough to melt the island
Those veins we dig, Heboric explained, they’re like a layer of once melted fat, a deep river of it sandwiched between layers of limestone. This whole island had to melt to make those veins. Whatever sorcery created Otataral proved beyond controlling
The island also has it's own potential powder keg. The guards include mostly the local "Dosii" outnumbering the Malzan regulars. What will they do when the rebellion breaks out?
'The Dosii regulars have lost all discipline. They ignore the duty rosters, spend all their time tossing coins at Bula’s. There’s seventy-five of us and over two hundred of them, Beneth, and all this talk of rebellion ...'
Back in Hissar, Pormqual may have failed to get Coltaine's Wickans and the Seventh to abandon the city - but that hasn't stopped him pulling everyone else out - effectively leaving Coltaine in a weakened position with rebellion brewing.
The Wickan had no authority over the Malazan warships, and Pormqual’s recall had seen the Sahul Fleet depart Hissar’s harbour this very morning for the month-long journey to Aren.
Coltaine's response is to start drilling his army for evacuation
You’re busy reading the stones in the sand, Sormo. Aren’t you? While Coltaine hammers the Seventh into shape as guardians to Malazan refugees.
Fiddler and Kalam have had a falling out over "loyalty." Kalam sees delivering the book to Sha'ik as a means to destabilize Laseen even further. But Fiddler wants to make the distinction that just because they aren't loyal to Laseen they should still be loyal to the Empire.
Fiddler grimaced. ‘Confusing times for us all. We’ve been outlawed by Laseen, but does that make us any less soldiers of the Empire? Malaz isn’t the Empress and the Empress isn’t Malaz—’
Kalam and the bridgeburners split up. Kalam is going to Aren after delivering the book to catch a ship back home. But how are Fiddler and crew getting back...
‘There’s more than one road to Unta, lad. We’re here to find one that’s probably never been used before(that's curious) and may not even work,(a way that might not work?) but we’ll look for it anyway, with Kalam or without him. Hood knows, it might be Kalam’s taking the wiser path, overland, down to Aren, by mundane ship back to Quon Tali.(How else are you supposed to cross an ocean if not by ship?)
And Crokus raises the question of whether Apsalar is the backup plan if Kalam fails to assassinate the Empress.
I like how Kalam has given the Red Blades the slip, giving himself a head start. Remember that it was the Red Blades who arranged for Kalam to "find" the Tome so he could lead them to the rebel leader.
Also for re readers (view spoiler)
David Sven wrote: "One day you’ll find yourself face to face with your sister, and an ocean of blood pouring from Tavore’s veins won’t be enough"This makes the divination of the boy on the street from the previous chapter pretty much obvious, isn't it? Or it could be it's too obvious that it is a red herring. We don't know about Tavore's motivations at this point but right now I am hoping Felisin will give her a proper ass-kicking.
Back in Hissar, Pormqual may have failed to get Coltaine's Wickans and the Seventh to abandon the city - but that hasn't stopped him pulling everyone else out - effectively leaving Coltaine in a weakened position with rebellion brewing.
I thought it was implied from the previous meeting that Pormqual is only a figure and all those around him including Mallick Rel who really have the power. Probably I missed it, but I don't understand what is their end goal for withdrawing their troops in the city? Some sort of personal vendetta against Coltaine?
I am liking Pust. I think he's the Kruppe of this book.
Mod
Ok lets lay out the command structure.
Coltaine is the High Fist of the Wickans(5000 of them) as well as the Seventh Army (I don't think we have those exact numbers yet)
Pormqual is High Fist over all the other Malazan occupying forces including the naval forces so can command them as he likes - which he/or Mallick does by withdrawing them.
Mallick has no official authority. But it is obvious he is the one calling the shots. Coltaine initially asks Duiker if he could spy on Mallick for him and find out WHAT Mallick is holding over Pormqual to have usurped his authority so completely. Duiker declines.
Pormqual technically outranks Coltaine at least as of this chapter. Coltaine gets out of obeying his withdrawal orders by requesting clarification. Mallick who is the one actually telling Pormqual what orders to give presumes to give clarification himself - at which point he is put in his place
You command nothing. Not Coltaine, not me, not even a lowly mess cook of the Seventh.’
Clear as mud? Its a complicated and thereby more realistic to my mind, political situation.
So why Mallick wants the withdrawal we can only guess at this stage - but it looks to me as if he was trying to take over the Seventh by moving them to his power base in Aren and them perhaps having Coltaine assassinated there - in which case the Seventh would officially fall under Pormqual's command.
Since Coltaine sees through this plan it appears his next best move is to abandon Coltaine and let the rebellion kill him. Mallick doesn't want a strong leader challenging his hold on the continent.
That's what I'm reading so far. There may be more to it as well but we'll have to read and find out.
Mod
Ahhh... good pick up.
David Sven wrote: "Coltaine is the High Fist of the Wickans(5000 of them) as well as the Seventh Army (I don't think we have those exact numbers yet)Pormqual is High Fist over all the other Malazan occupying forces including the naval forces so can command them as he likes - which he/or Mallick does by withdrawing them."
This bit confused me before. I thought they are High Fists of different divisions. Wouldn't it make much more sense if Erikson gave Pormqual a different title? Kind of like Admiral -> Commander, etc.
So why Mallick wants the withdrawal we can only guess at this stage - but it looks to me as if he was trying to take over the Seventh by moving them to his power base in Aren and them perhaps having Coltaine assassinated there - in which case the Seventh would officially fall under Pormqual's command. Since Coltaine sees through this plan it appears his next best move is to abandon Coltaine and let the rebellion kill him. Mallick doesn't want a strong leader challenging his hold on the continent.
These factions within factions within factions of the Malazan Empire is way too complicated. Couldn't it be also because Laseen sees Coltaine the way she saw Whiskeyjack and his Bridgeburners? Loyal to the Empire but not to her. She made a lot of move that showed her insecurities to the dead emperor before.
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That is essentially what they are. But with different briefs. Sort of like Generals of the old Roman Empire.
Aaron Vincent wrote: "Couldn't it be also because Laseen sees Coltaine the way she saw Whiskeyjack and his Bridgeburners? "
Oh she sees Coltaine exactly like that - but she can't deal with Coltaine the same as she did with WhiskeyJack. The Bridgeburners were an Empire regiment and so it was easy to order them into suicidal situations. But Coltaine is a leader of a warlike and volatile nation state. An unconquered state because the Wickans came into the Empire through diplomacy - not surrender. The deal with the former Emperor was with Coltaine. If Coltaine dies how do you control the Wickans? So till now Laseen dealt with him by just keeping him out of everything.
This is Duiker perspective on Coltaine and the Empress
Empress Laseen held no affection for her predecessor’s chosen commanders,(As you said, he's part of the old guard like the bridgeburners) Coltaine was left to rot in some backwater on Quon Tali. Then the situation changed. Adjunct Lorn is killed in Darujhistan, High Fist Dujek and his army turn renegade, effectively surrendering the entire Genabackan Campaign, and the Year of Dryjhna approaches here in Seven Cities, prophesied as the year of rebellion. Laseen needs able commanders before it all slips from her grasp. The new Adjunct Tavore is untested. So.. .’
‘Coltaine,’ the captain nodded, his scowl deepening. ‘Sent here to take command of the Seventh and put down the rebellion—’
So from Duiker's POV Laseen would prefer to NOT use Coltaine but she's about to lose a whole continent and she's out of options.
So the short answer is, I don't think the withdrawal is orchestrated by Laseen to get rid of Coltaine.
Woah, thank you for clarifying that. Makes much more sense now.
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Coltaine is a Fist, not a High Fist. Pormqual is the High Fist commanding all Malazan forces on Seven Cities; whereas Fist Coltaine is the 7th Army commander. It seems to clear to me, as many of you have expressed above, that Laseen's appointment of Coltaine to the 7th in Hissar is an effort to salvage the situation on Seven Cities and begin to put down the rebellion, because she knows that Coltaine and his Wickan clans are fighters and are loyal. Clearly, she has little confidence in High Fist Pormqual.And you are all correct in noting that the Jhistal Priest, Mallick Rel, is a political creature and has an agenda of his own. He will bear watching as we continue to read the book.
Jhistal - "A high priest of an Elder God who employs human blood in ritual magic" (view spoiler)This is from the Malazan Encyclopedia, a good resource.
Lori wrote: "Jhistal - "A high priest of an Elder God who employs human blood in ritual magic" [spoilers removed]This is from the Malazan Encyclopedia, a good resource."
Spot-on, Lori, and Rel is a "Jhistal Priest of Mael", the Elder God of the Seas.
So Heboric was once a priest. Knowing that priests can wield magic, how come Otataral has no effect on him? Has he been cut off from his warren? As its explained, Otataral prevents mages from accessing their warren, which eventually drives them mad.
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I absolutely love this sequenceThe Trell pushed himself upright. "Where is the library?"
"Turn right, proceed thirty-four paces, turn right again, twelve paces, then through the door on the right, thirty-five paces, through archway on right another eleven paces, turn right one last time, fifteen paces, enter the door on the right."
Mappo stared at Iskaral Pust.
The High Priest shifted nervously.
"Or," the Trell said, eyes narrowed, "turn left, nineteen paces."
"Aye," Iskaral muttered.
Mappo strode to the door. "I shall take the short route, then."
"If you must," the High Priest growled as he bent to close examination of the broom's ragged end.
Classic!
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David Sven wrote: "Iskarel Pust is one of my favourites. He sounds crazy but he is a lot more "aware" than his antics would have us believe. A bit like Kruppe that way - except crazier."
Ah, I am not the only one who compared Iskarel Pust to Kruppe. They are both great characters.
Ah, I am not the only one who compared Iskarel Pust to Kruppe. They are both great characters.
Well, Kruppe is the narrator of one of the books, and it works out extremely well. Erikson may be a genius, but I have a hard time imagining one of these books narrated by Pust. Actually, I can imagine it, but it's already giving me a headache.
Duffy wrote: "Well, Kruppe is the narrator of one of the books, and it works out extremely well. Erikson may be a genius, but I have a hard time imagining one of these books narrated by Pust. Actually, I can i..."Actually reading that one right now. Least favorite book, even though, like them all, it has a great convergence.
Lori wrote: "Which ICE is that?"Not ICE it is Toll the Hounds.
Ha! How could I forget that? But I did.
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I love Pust, I love the way his character develops over this series. His musings and self chatter become very clever and funny. Kruppe, just stays Kruppe. So for me, Pust is da bomb.
Kruppe will be a narrator of one of the books? Like first person pov narrator of an entire book? I am somewhat both excited and anxious for that.
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Ahhh, maybe I'll listen to it first before posting the link. I can't remember the spoiler content.
So Toll the Hounds differs from the other books that it is a first-person linear narrative instead of third-person omniscient narrative?
Hmmm... why am I worrying about it too much?! There's 6 more books(including DG) before that. :D
It is not a complete single person narrative. It is still a typical Malazan book. Erikson just tried to change his style a little for this book. I don't particularly care for it. Anyway, off topic.
That book was the one I had the most difficulty with, I knew I was missing things and thought it was info from one if the ICE books. But it could also have been the jump in narration, I'll be a better judge this time. Speaking of ICE I am hoping you all who have read them can fill us in on pertinent info! Marked as a spoiler.
Yay! I finally have enough time to begin ch3. I'll be back later this evening to begin commenting again.
YAY! Looking forward to it.
"Viewing themselves as progressive in their embrace of the values of imperial unification, this quasi-military cult became infamous with their brutal pragmatism when dealing with their dissenting kin."What a fascinating description of how self-image so often clashes with reality when an ideology is tested and challenged in the real world. Idealism vs. pragmatism; a brilliant description.
Felisin thinking and addressing herself: One day you'll find yourself face to face with your sister, and an ocean of blood pouring from Tavore's veins won't be enough, though all they hold will suffice.
The vengeance fantasies of this 14 year old girl are scary stuff. And wonderfully written. Will we see her have this longed for confrontation? And will she feel the same when confronted by the reality of her sister?
I loved the scene of the Red Blades standing off with the Wickans. And the subsequent description of Coltaine's training of the Seventh and previous confrontation between Bult and Mallick Rel means I am absolutely loving the Wickans.
I am surprised that the Empire lets militias like the Red Blades form. I get that they are pro-Empire but I would have thought the Empress would want to maintain a monopoly on control of military power within her borders. Allowing a militia like this seems like a recipe for having them turn against you.
On to chapter 4.
@Lori I know. I have read this before but when posting in these threads I like to think about what I have read in a chapter as if I haven't.
Oh! I should have known! I do the same thing. And for my first time read I would have loved to speculate with others. :)
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I'm guessing the logistics of a sprawling empire as well as cultural gaps within the Empire would make that sort of control quite difficult.
Welcom back Chaz! Been missing your comments.
It's good to be back. I've had a couple of freelance projects on top of my regular 9 to 5 for the last couple of weeks. It felt good to crack open a book again this afternoon.
Ctgt wrote: "I absolutely love this sequenceThe Trell pushed himself upright. "Where is the library?"
"Turn right, proceed thirty-four paces, turn right again, twelve paces, then through the door on the rig..."
Me too! i actually read it twice and counted the steps along. Mappo wasn't born yesterday!
I feel for Fiddler. I used to like Crokus, but not so much if he's going to keep this attitude up. I understand his concern and frustration for not being let in on anything, but his attitude felt so... TEEN.
Aaron Vincent wrote: "So Toll the Hounds differs from the other books that it is a first-person linear narrative instead of third-person omniscient narrative?"It's Kruppe: he doesn't speak in the first person, so why would you expect a narrative by him to be in the first person. And he's far too slimy and rotund to do anything that even approaches linear. But otherwise, yes...
HAHAHA Duffy wonderful!
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Duffy wrote: "Aaron Vincent wrote: "So Toll the Hounds differs from the other books that it is a first-person linear narrative instead of third-person omniscient narrative?"It's Kruppe: he doesn't speak in th..."
Looks like I'm in the minority here because I loved Toll the Hounds.
I knew I had missed out on some stuff that required an ICE book. Hoping when we get there, readers will clue me in.
Maybe. It's been a few years so I don't remember the details that clearly. I just know I loved it when I read it. But I adore Kruppe and Anomander Rake has always been one of my favorite characters, along with Paran. :)
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).