Rumi دوستداران شمس ,مولوی discussion

Rumi in English

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message 1: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Rumi & Shams: A Love Story or Personal Necessity?

To comprehend the often misunderstood and misquoted connection between Rumi and Shams we should start by reviewing the personality of these two historic figures.

Rumi, born into wealth, power and the world of politics, was a member of the high society. He was known to pull and offer favors. His mother was a relative of the king in the province of Khorasan in the Eastern Persian Empire, where he was born. His father was a respected court advisor on jurisprudence. Rumi indulged in personal contacts, favors and friendships. He was known to deepen his friendship to his favorite people by any means necessary. For example, he was close with a goldsmith in Konya. Since it was socially unacceptable for a member of the elite class to socialize with the merchant class, he asked his son to marry the daughter of the goldsmith to formalize his connection with this man.

Shams, by the time he met Rumi was in his 60s. By then he was known mainly as a blunt, antisocial and powerful spiritual wanderer. His nickname was the Bird. The Bird, because he couldn't stay in one place for too long, and because he was known to be in two distant cities around the same time, as if he could fly or transport his essence at will. This wanderer is known to have been seeking a "grand master student"--a student, who would be greater then many masters at the time. He chooses Rumi as his "master-student." Apparently he initially notices Rumi when he was 21, but judging the time inappropriate and the student not ready, he waits 16 years to approach Rumi again.

They meet again, when Rumi was in his late 30s and Shams in his early 60s. The initial spark of their connection inspires Rumi to take Shams into his home. Shams from then on becomes the new friend, the latest companion. As you can imagine problem is brewing from day one. Shams, same as the goldsmith wasn't from the elite class. He was a simple wanderer, a powerful spiritual figure yes, but still a poor wanderer. The problem initially was put aside by Rumi's magnetism; however, it gradually grew into a much bigger issue. After receiving repeated death threats and negative remarks, Shams decides to leave town. Soon after, Rumi falls into a deep state of grief. A few months later, Shams is brought back into Konya. After all Rumi's health and well-being was worth more than social boundaries. This time, Rumi decides to legitimize Shams' presence in his home and uses the same tactic as with the goldsmith, he marries his very young stepdaughter Keemia (alchemy) to Shams. It is said that Shams for the first time falls in love. This must have been a truly memorable moment in his life--not only being with his chosen student, but also being married to his student's teenage daughter. The situation in the household quiets down during this time, after all Shams was now a relative. A few months later, due to illness and possibly grief, Keemia dies, and with that comes the end of Shams and Rumi's companionship.

A love story, a tragedy or a personal necessity?

From link:

message 2: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Mr. Shiva asked a group of about fifty participants in one of his workshops to define why Rumi meant so much to them. He then was able to group their responses in 12 distinct categories which are listed below with explanation.

1- Non-Intellectual:
They found Rumi to cater to their hearts, emotions and instincts rather than intellects.

2- Levels:
They found many levels in Rumi’s poetry. The more they learned about Rumi,
the more they appreciated his depth and were encouraged to dig deeper.

3- Unity:
They found the sense of unity and universal siblinghood in Rumi’s poetry to be very attractive.

4- Friend:
They found him to be a friend.

5- Personal Process:
Reading Rumi for them is a personal process. They associate themselves with him.

6- Grace Descending:
Every time a Rumi poem was recited they felt Grace descending.

7- Longing:
They associated with the sense of longing in Rumi’s poems.

8- Love Affair:
Rumi was like a lover to some of the participants.

9- Cultural Bridge:
They found Rumi to form a cultural bridge for the Persians, Turks, Afghanis and the Arabs in this country. Through Rumi some Middle & Near Eastern people found a new acceptance in the U.S.

10- They Don’t Even Like Poetry:
Some expressed that they don’t even like poetry but they love reading Rumi poems.

11- Participate in the Process:
They found Rumi extremely expressive and found themselves participating in Rumi’s own process.

12- Spiritual Guide:
They found Rumi to be a spiritual guide for them.

from link:

message 3: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Lover Me

Lover me, cave me,
the sweet burn of Love me.
Lover you, cave you,
Shams protect me.
Noah you, soul you,
conqueror and the conquered you
the awakened heart you.
Why hold me at that gate of your secret?

Light you, celebration you,
the victorious land you
the bird of Mount Sinai you.
You carry me on your tired beak.
Drop you, ocean you,
compassion and rage you,
sugar you, poison you.
Please don't continue to hurt me.

The orb of the Sun you,
the house of Venus you,
the sliver of hope you.
Open up the way for me.
Day you, night you,
fasting and the crumbs of a beggar you,
water and a pitcher you.
Quench my thirst, Beloved.

Bait you, trap you,
wine you, cup you,
baked and raw you.
Please don't let me be unbaked.

If you don't run my body too hard,
if you don't cut my way too much,
if you try to help rather than make my life more difficult.
Oh, all these words of mine

from link:

message 4: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Love Said to Me

I worship the moon.
Tell me of the soft glow of a
candle light
and the sweetness of my moon.

Don't talk about sorrow,
tell me of that treasure,
hidden if it is to you,
then just remain silent.

Last night
I lost my grip on reality
and welcomed insanity.
saw me and said,
I showed up.
Wipe you tears
and be silent.

I said, O Love
I am frightened,
but it's not you.
Love said to me,
there is nothing that is not me.
be silent.

I will whisper secrets in your ear
just nod yes
and be silent.

A soul moon
appeared in the path of my heart.
How precious is this journey.

I said, O Love
what kind of moon is this?
Love said to me,
this is not for you to question.
be silent.

I said, O Love
what kind of face is this,
angelic, or human?
Love said to me,
this is beyond anything that you know.
Be silent.

I said, please reveal this to me
I am dying in anticipation.
Love said to me,
that is where I want you:
Always on the edge,
be silent.
You dwell in this hall of
images and illusions,
leave this house now
and be silent.

I said, O Love,
tell me this:
Does the Lord know you are
treating me this way?
Love said to me,
yes He does,
just be totally…
totally… silent

from link:

message 5: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
You Worry Too Much

Oh soul,
you worry too much.
You say,
I make you feel dizzy.
Of a little headache then,
why do you worry?
You say, I am your moon-faced beauty.
Of the cycles of the moon and
passing of the years,
why do you worry?
You say, I am your source of passion,
I excite you.
Of playing into the Devils hand,
why do you worry?

Oh soul,
you worry too much.

Look at yourself,
what you have become.
You are now a field of sugar canes,
why show that sour face to me?
You say that I keep you warm inside.
Then why this cold sigh?
You have gone to the roof of heavens.
Of this world of dust, why do you worry?

Oh soul,
you worry too much.

Your arms are heavy
with treasures of all kinds.
About poverty,
why do you worry?
You are Joseph,
beautiful, strong,
steadfast in your belief,
all of Egypt has become drunk
because of you.
Of those who are blind to your beauty,
and deaf to your songs,
why do you worry?

Oh soul,
you worry too much.

You have seen your own strength.
You have seen your own beauty.
You have seen your golden wings.
Of anything less,
why do you worry?
You are in truth
the soul, of the soul, of the soul.
You are the security,
the shelter of the spirit of Lovers.
Oh the sultan of sultans,
of any other king,
why do you worry?

Be silent, like a fish,
and go into that pleasant sea.
You are in deep waters now,
of life's blazing fire.
Why do you worry?

from link:

message 6: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Dear all my friend in Rumi group

Please visit Mr shiva websit as below link :

you can find so nice Rumi poems and CD and book address ther and you can listen to some of poems as free


message 7: by lisa (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

lisa | 2 comments I found this so interesting; I think I am partial to # 2 and #9, although I think I will do a reread with an eye toward #11.

message 8: by lisa (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:30AM) (new)

lisa | 2 comments Hello Everyone,
Does anyone know of an English translation that is reputed to be especially good? I am reading a translation by Coleman Barks "The Essential Rumi". He is supposed to be one the bettter translaters, but if anyone has any opinions on the matter, I would appreciate it.
Thanks! This is such an interesting group!

message 9: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:32AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Mawlānā Jalāl-ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhi (Rūmī)[2:] (Persian: مولانا جلال الدین محمد رومی, Turkish:

Mevlânâ Celâleddin Mehmed Rumi, Arabic: جلال الدين الرومي, shortened to إبن الرومي), also known as Mawlānā Jalāl-ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī (Persian: محمد بلخى), but known to the English-speaking world simply as Rumi, (September 30, 1207–December 17, 1273), was a 13th century Persian (Tājīk)[3:][4:] Muslim poet, jurist, and theologian. His name literally means "Majesty of Religion", Jalal means "majesty" and Din means "religion".[5:] Rumi is a descriptive name meaning "the Roman" since he died in Anatolia which was part of the Eastern Roman Empire two centuries before. [6:]

Rumi was born in Balkh (in present-day Afghanistan, then a city of Greater Khorasan in Persia) and died in Konya (in present-day Turkey). His birthplace and native language/local dialogue indicates a Persian (Tājīk) heritage.[7:] He also wrote his poetry in Persian and his works are widely read in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and in translation especially in Turkey, Azerbaijan, the US, and South Asia. He lived most of his life in, and produced his works under, the Seljuk Empire.[8:] Aside from his Persian poetry, he also wrote some verses in Arabic, Greek, and Oghuz Turkish.

Rumi's importance is considered to transcend national and ethnic borders. Throughout the centuries he has had a significant influence on Persian as well as Urdu and Turkish literatures. His poems have been widely translated into many of the world's languages in various formats.

After Rumi's death, his followers founded the Mevlevi Order, better known as the "Whirling Dervishes," who believe in performing their worship in the form of dance and music ceremony called the sema.


message 10: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:32AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Draw it now from Eternity's Jar

Come, come, awaken all true drunkards!
Pour the wine that is Life itself!
O cupbearer of the Eternal Wine,
Draw it now from Eternity’s Jar!
This wine doesn’t run down the throat
But it looses torrents of words!
Cupbearer, make my soul fragrant as musk,
This noble soul of mine that knows the Invisible!
Pour out the wine for the morning drinkers!
Pour them this subtle and priceless musk!
Pass it around to everyone in the assembly
In the cups of your blazing drunken eyes!
Pass a philter from your eyes to everyone else’s
In a way the mouth knows nothing of,
For this is the way cupbearers always offer
The holy and mysterious wine to lovers.
Hurry, the eyes of every atom in Creation
Are famished for this flaming-out of splendour!
Procure for yourself this fragrance of musk
And with it split open the breast of heaven!
The waves of the fragrance of this musk
Drive all Josephs out of their minds forever!


message 11: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:55AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
The minute I heard my first love story,

I started looking for you, not knowing

how blind that was.

Lovers don't finally meet somewhere,

they're in each other all along.

Translator: Coleman Barks

message 12: by f. (last edited Aug 25, 2016 11:55AM) (new)

f.  | 1028 comments Mod
Two Kinds of Intelligence

There are two kinds of intelligence: one acquired,

as a child in school memorizes facts and concepts

from books and from what the teacher says,

collecting information from the traditional sciences

as well as from the new sciences.

With such intelligence you rise in the world.

You get ranked ahead or behind others

in regard to your competence in retaining

information. You stroll with this intelligence

in and out of fields of knowledge, getting always more

marks on your preserving tablets.

There is another kind of tablet, one

already completed and preserved inside you.

A spring overflowing its springbox. A freshness

in the center of the chest. This other intelligence

does not turn yellow or stagnate. It's fluid,

and it doesn't move from outside to inside

through conduits of plumbing-learning.

This second knowing is a fountainhead

from within you, moving out.

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