Lois McMaster Bujold Fans discussion

83 views
Chalion Books > In what ways is Cazaril an atypical hero? (Was Cazaril's past)

Comments Showing 1-44 of 44 (44 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
I think it's fascinating that, when we meet Cazaril at the start of this book, he is clearly a man who has seen and experienced much, and might even be said to be "past his prime". This breaks away from the fantasy cliche of the young, inexperienced hero. In what other ways does Cazaril defy cliches?


message 2: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
When we first meet Caz he seems to be timid and fearful .. a broken man.


message 3: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
I particularly disliked how broken he was, at my first reading. Now I started rereading for the RAL and I like the book already a lot more. Funny.


message 4: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
I loved that with this book and with the sequel Bujold gives us protagonists with life experience! I'm sure this is in part because she isn't a young pup herself, and wants to write some characters who have depth and history to draw on.


message 5: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
I like the way LMB slowly reveals more and more of Caz's past throughout the novel.


message 6: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
I should perhaps have given this thread a different title, cos I was hoping to get at the question that ended my post; in what ways is Cazaril an atypical hero? How does Bujold go against stereotypes with her creation of Cazaril?

Clearly he's unusual because he's not a freshfaced young whatever, setting off on a huge adventure with a magical sword. He's unusual because he's got a history. And he's unusual because his history is not one of success and conquest; he describes himself as having failed over and over.


message 7: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
we can change that! ( think)


message 8: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
is this an okay title: in what ways is Cazaril an atypical hero?


message 9: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
Great!


message 10: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
very good!


message 11: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 13, 2009 11:52AM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Unlike most young heroes, Caz isn't anxious to be noticed, to make a name for himself, to stand out in any way. He doesn't want to go on a quest or save the princess or defeat evil. He wants to work in the kitchen and deal with nothing more frightening or dangerous than the Cook!


message 12: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
And then what makes him an admirable hero is the fact that when trouble comes calling - essentially forcing itself upon him - he doesn't turn tail; he rises to the occasion. He does what he feels he has to... but a lesser man wouldn't feel that compulsion to take on these difficult problems.


message 13: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (last edited Mar 14, 2009 02:45PM) (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Caz is not exactly young; I can imagine that he wanted to go on a quest, defeat evil, and save and merry the princess, when he was riding proudly and eagerly in his first war. But after 17 years of riding like that, loosing wars, seeing all what is to be seen in a war, seeing the futility of the losses, when the outcome gets determined by politics, being kept in a dungeon, and a slave on a Roknari galley, i think he would agree with Bothari upon: "I like being bored".


message 14: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Kiri wrote: "And then what makes him an admirable hero is the fact that when trouble comes calling - essentially forcing itself upon him - he doesn't turn tail; he rises to the occasion. He does what he feels ..."

:nods:

excellent points!

Caz seems to always find more of himself than he though there was. More to give, more for service, more strength when he though it was gone, and of course bravery -- to face his greatest fears....


message 15: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 14, 2009 01:43PM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
vorbore wrote: "Caz is not exactly young; I can imagine that he wanted to go on a quest, defeat evil, and save and merry the princess, when he was riding proudly and eagerly in his first war. But after 17 years of..."

Good point, when Caz was young he was eager to go off and do brave deeds, to ride a Stallion instead of a Gelding to lead men, etc. But as you say seeing all the not so great things that life can produce and/or expose oneself to I agree that he would be very happy to agree with that wise sentiment expressed by Bothari! :-)


message 16: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
In my mind the stereotypical hero isn't what one would call a scholar... he might be clever at defeating his foes in feats of strength or even tricking them... but they don't seem to be portrayed as being so learned. Usually it's one of their team or a sidekick sort of companion that would be scholarly or wise.

Caz, on the other hand, understands many cultures, speaks many languages, relaxes while decoding cyphers, has an excellent understanding of politics, knows the geography of several countries (some like the lines on his hands), can plan strategies that allow him to hold a castle/fort against greater forces and the odds for an unexpected length of time.... He comments to himself that the robes of a scholar suit him, perhaps because that is what he has become over the years (in spite of or perhaps because of? his experiences)..... not merely clever, but wise and learned....?


message 17: by Micki (last edited Mar 15, 2009 04:43PM) (new)

Micki  (mickiinmakubetsu) | 7 comments Caz kind of reminds me of Brother Cadfael in the Ellis Peters mysteries. (Just sayin', not related to the rest of the post.)

He *says* he would like to just sit back, relax at some menial job . . . however, when the call comes, he answers. I like that he grumbles about it a bit, and he's seen enough of the world to know that he isn't getting into some "oh, let's slay the dragon, and be home in time for dinner" escapade. Yet, when push comes to shove, he answers the call . . . I think it's because he'd rather not live in a world where he did nothing to prevent the evils.

(-: I need to start re-reading this, but RL is very busy right now.



message 18: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 16, 2009 07:29AM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Micki wrote: "Caz kind of reminds me of Brother Cadfael in the Ellis Peters mysteries. (Just sayin', not related to the rest of the post.)

He *says* he would like to just sit back, relax at some menial job . ..."


oh, yes, there is no way he could live with himself knowing he had done nothing!

I think he is also rather dismayed to think that he might be the "last best hope" sort of person .... given that he knows he's only human in so many daunting ways, broken and fearful, and of course, unworthy....

BTW, I love Cadfael :-) he does seem a lot like Caz in many ways.... just not so broken


message 19: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
It's interesting that Teidez is in the position of the stereotypical fantasy hero - he's a young man of noble blood, just aching to set off and slay dragons (or at least bulls) bursting at the seams with energy and desires... and yet through Caz's eyes we see the "stupidity of youth". Teidez is all energy and no brains.


message 20: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Kiri wrote: "...and yet through Caz's eyes we see the "stupidity of youth". Teidez is all energy and no brains."

that is interesting :-) good point!

I think Caz also remarks early on (in ch.6 perhaps?) how Tiedez seems "out of season" (or something to that effect). He's got all the energy and qualifications, but is too young and inexperienced to really pull anything off.


message 21: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
If Teidez would have had a tutor as Caz at the time he was forming as a person, he would not become so unfit for the life of a throne heir.
And yet, majority of throne heirs, or other kind of leaders, were(are?) not fit for their role, otherwise the human history would be much less bloody.


message 22: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
I suppose it illustrates the problems of a hereditary position; Teidez doesn't have the qualifications to be heir - he hasn't earned ANYTHING. Caz, on the other hand, has proven his worthiness - his honor, loyalty, intelligence.


message 23: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (last edited Mar 18, 2009 01:46PM) (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Oh, don't be so hard on Teidez. He was just a pup, and a poorly trained one too. Born to a highest of families, lost his father at so young an age, and, in a way, lost his mother too at the same time. No anchor for him, not with all the courtiers bowing at him, and flattering him, and worse (I am not specific to avoid spoiling), no one to bring some sense to him, puberty rampaging through his veins. No actual education, for crying out loud! He was left to grow on his own like a weed. And he was a type that definitely needed some serious gardening. I actually pity him.


message 24: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
vorbore wrote: "I particularly disliked how broken he was, at my first reading. Now I started rereading for the RAL and I like the book already a lot more. Funny."


Someone on another group pointed out that Caz seems to suffer from PTSD.... I hadn't thought about it that way before she mentioned it (broken was how I thought of him), but when she said PTSD it made a lot of sense!



message 25: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 19, 2009 12:25PM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
vorbore wrote: "If Teidez would have had a tutor as Caz at the time he was forming as a person, he would not become so unfit for the life of a throne heir.
And yet, majority of throne heirs, or other kind of lead..."


I agree. It is very unfortunate that Teidez didn't have someone like Caz to guide and inform and teach him. I think his (Teidez's) tutor (Ser de Santa? I can't recall his name at the moment!) tries, but doesn't have the influence he needs over Teidez when they move to the capital. He also hasn't earned Teidez's respect.




message 26: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (last edited Mar 19, 2009 01:24PM) (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Vorlady wrote: Someone on another group pointed out that Caz seems to suffer from PTSD.... I hadn't thought about it that way before she mentioned it (broken was how I thought of him), but when she said PTSD it made a lot of sense!

There are lot's of men with PTSD in Croatia lately (or at least they are diagnosed so) - courtesy of the last war - but mainly the characteristic behavior would be uncontrollable outbursts of aggression and suicidal tendencies.

From helpguide.com about PTSD:
Re-experiencing the traumatic event:
* Intrusive, upsetting memories of the event
* Flashbacks (acting or feeling like the event is happening again)
* Nightmares (either of the event or of other frightening things)
* Feelings of intense distress when reminded of the trauma
* Intense physical reactions to reminders of the event (e.g. pounding heart, rapid breathing, nausea, muscle tension, sweating)
PTSD symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing
* Avoiding activities, places, thoughts, or feelings that remind you of the trauma
* Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
* Loss of interest in activities and life in general
* Feeling detached from others and emotionally numb
* Sense of a limited future (you don’t expect to live a normal life span, get married, have a career)
PTSD symptoms of increased arousal
* Difficulty falling or staying asleep
* Irritability or outbursts of anger
* Difficulty concentrating
* Hypervigilance (on constant “red alert”)
* Feeling jumpy and easily startled
Other common symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder
* Anger and irritability
* Guilt, shame, or self-blame
* Substance abuse
* Depression and hopelessness
* Suicidal thoughts and feelings
* Feeling alienated and alone
* Feelings of mistrust and betrayal
* Headaches, stomach problems, chest pain

Mainly, although Caz has some of the above symptoms, these are actually getting better in the peaceful environment of the Provincara's household. Which would not be the case with PTSD. At the same time, Ista's symptoms are lasting already for two years at the time Caz is staying there. So I would say that Ista has PTSD, while Caz suffers consequences of a deeply traumatizing and dehumanizing experience of slavery at the Roknary galley, preceded with the shock of being betrayed by his own country and military command; but he faced his experience, and was coping and getting better by himself.
My remark was influenced by the memory of Miles in the "Borders of Infinity" and Mark in the "Mirror Dance". But there is a huge difference. Both Miles and Mark had latent split personalities, while Caz was a regular "normal" person. So,maybe that was the reason that it took him more time to snap out of his terror. He had no one to split the load.


message 27: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Vorlady wrote: "vorbore wrote: "I agree. It is very unfortunate that Teidez didn't have someone like Caz to guide and inform and teach him. I think his (Teidez's) tutor (Ser de Santa? I can't recall his name at the moment!) tries, but doesn't have the influence he needs over Teidez when they move to the capital. He also hasn't earned Teidez's respect."

Dy Sanda :D And his basic flaw was his lack of integrity, his preoccupation with positions of people rather then their inner values, which caused him to be intimidated by his student. I especially enjoyed the following Cazaril's thought, at the beginning of his tutorship to Iselle: "The key was to take initiative from the first moment, and keep it thereafter. He could be as hollow as a drum, so long as he was as loud" LOL Reminded me of Miles' inspections in the Warrior's Apprentice, and all those "Ums" and "Hms" and "God help us" LOL


message 28: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 20, 2009 07:21AM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod


I hadn't considered Ista as having PTSD, I was thinking more in terms of depression of some sort....

Interesting


message 29: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
Re: Cazaril and how broken he is at the start of the book... yeah, he's pretty seriously messed up (note his great gratitude for very simple pleasures - getting clean, for one, and his easy tears when he gets a full meal, and his physical disability) and yet we don't quite appreciate at first how RECENT his ordeals were, and how much he is in the middle of recovering from them. Once he's at the Zangre with the kids he rises admirably to the challenge of dealing with the court intrigues and old enemies, etc. By that time he's had a whole summer of quiet to heal him - he's in MUCH better shape.

He's a remarkably centered person, our Caz; the hardships he went through didn't break him. And he's not the kind of person who would give in to bribes or temptations - even in his youth. He's always been a very honorable man.

Re: Ista - she may very well have mental problems, but we know that there's something unearthly going on, too. There is the title of the book, after all.


message 30: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Kiri wrote: "Re: Cazaril and how broken he is at the start of the book... yeah, he's pretty seriously messed up (note his great gratitude for very simple pleasures - getting clean, for one, and his easy tears w..."

I agree, he has come very far from where he was, but he isn't completely recovered when we first meet him.

****SPOILER******
**
**
**
**
**
Even later in the story (over a year wasn't it?) when he meets up with Danni again and they are walking on the beach he maneuvers things so Danni is always on the side with the sea because it affects Caz so much to be near it.

***END SPOILER****


I cannot help but wonder if Caz might have developed some useful skills and coping methods for dealing with horrible tragedies during his years of fighting and his experiences being tortured. Clearly he had a major breakdown due to his experiences with the Roknari, but he is able to, albeit slowly, recover and live a relatively normal existence.


message 31: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Re: Ista - she may very well have mental problems, but we know that there's something unearthly going on, too. There is the title of the book, after all.

But it isn't said that unearthly things cannot traumatize us. I would say, quite the opposite. Especially what Ista was going through, and with all that guilt that is tormenting her since. I was always wondering, how could she grow so alienated from her children. Perhaps she felt so tainted by her experience that she was afraid it would do them worse if she would be around them. Not that she could do anything worse then the Curse was already doing.

Or, do you think that the way Ista was, was all the doing of the Curse, like in Orico's case? It did make him give up on everything too.



message 32: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
You've got a point... Ista could have PTSD as a result of the curse... especially since she can see ghosts and auras... I guess I thought that a lot of her weird behavior is a result of her sensitivity to the "supernatural" curse stuff going on around her. But certainly it could be both that and PTSD/depression as a result of the experiences she had. It's all so tangled together.


message 33: by Micki (new)

Micki  (mickiinmakubetsu) | 7 comments Vorbore wondered how Ista could become so alienated from her children.

I can kind of see that -- in fact, for royals, I think it's a huge struggle to stay connected to your children and be an important part of each others' lives. Even under "normal" circumstances, the children have nannies and tutors, and the parents have duties that take them far away (or just keep them busy).

Ista has, on top of everything, other problems to think about. And even in "normal" families, part of some types of mental illness is this horrible self-centeredness, where everything is whirling around me, me, me and my horrible life . . . and the kids are neglected, forgotten, drift away, or are alienated.

I do think it's PTSD for Ista, too, manifesting in a different way than Caz. I think Ista never had a chance to be herself -- a person with accomplishments and a baseline. She went right from her childhood home to her marriage home, and always had to define herself in terms of other people.

But Caz made his own way.

(I don't know -- that may be false-thinking. I'm sure Caz had to define himself in terms of other people, too -- his commander or the enemy. But somehow, Men's Roles In The Outside World often get so much more respect than Daughter, Wife, Mother.)




message 34: by Lynda (new)

Lynda | 28 comments vorbore wrote: "Vorlady wrote: "vorbore wrote: "I agree. It is very unfortunate that Teidez didn't have someone like Caz to guide and inform and teach him. I think his (Teidez's) tutor (Ser de Santa? I can't recal...

vorebore wrote: "I especially enjoyed the following Cazaril's thought, at the beginning of his tutorship to Iselle: "The key was to take initiative from the first moment, and keep it thereafter. He could be as hollow as a drum, so long as he was as loud" LOL Reminded me of Miles' inspections in the Warrior's Apprentice, and all those "Ums" and "Hms" and "God help us" LOL


I had the same thought :-) Miles fools pretty much everyone except Ky Tung and yet, this is another way that Caz differs and is an atypical hero. He has the substance and everybody recognizes it--even if he thinks he's faking it:

..."I've had the training of young soldiers, lady. Never of young maidens. I'm quite out of my depth, here." He hesitated, then spoke almost despite himself. "It looks to me to be a trifle too late to teach Iselle to be a coward. But you might....."


There follows the series of questions on his knowledge and he doesn't begin to get wary until way down the list...and then she offers him th job.

"The Provincara...grinned, was all one could call that terrifying gleeful expression." She knows who she's getting. One wonders who selected Ser dy Sanda and by what criteria.


message 35: by Lynda (new)

Lynda | 28 comments vorbore wrote: "Vorlady wrote: "vorbore wrote: "I agree. It is very unfortunate that Teidez didn't have someone like Caz to guide and inform and teach him. I think his (Teidez's) tutor (Ser de Santa? I can't recal...

vorebore wrote: "Dy Sanda :D And his basic flaw was his lack of integrity, his preoccupation with positions of people rather then their inner values, which caused him to be intimidated by his student.


I do think it has to do with his preoccupation with social positions and appearances. He seems to be honest and qualified, but seems to be teaching Tiedez what he thinks a Royse should know, not what a young man should know.

I wonder if the Provincara's terifying glee at getting Caz for Iselle--and why she thought of it in the first place--doesn't have to do with dy Sanda's flaws. This is the mother who warned Ista before she married.

Does dy Sanda fall into the "excessive-virtues" theme of the curse/book

(This also links into one of the essays--what the readers bring to fiction:-)


message 36: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (last edited Mar 29, 2009 01:47AM) (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Lynda wrote: "Does dy Sanda fall into the "excessive-virtues" theme of the curse/book "

I don't understand the question - but literally do not understand what is the "excessive-virtues" theme - could you please explain or give some links where it is explained?


message 37: by Lynda (new)

Lynda | 28 comments vorbore wrote: "Lynda wrote: "Does dy Sanda fall into the "excessive-virtues" theme of the curse/book "

I don't understand the question - but literally do not understand what is the "excessive-virtues" theme - co..."


sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear. I can't remember just where it was, but I seem to remember that the curse took/takes the form of twisting one's virtues into vices: Ias's understanding led to him trying to subvert the curse by acting at one remove.... The curse works on Martou dy Jironal through his love of and pride in family--and he is acting for Orico.

So I was wondering--it just occured to me at that moment and so is kind of half a thought ;-) --if dy Sanda might have been affected by the curse due to his relationship with Teidez....possibly through his respect for "gentlemen?"





message 38: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (last edited Mar 29, 2009 12:19PM) (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
You mean that this curse works that way that it enhabces one's virtues to the extent that they turn into flaws? Why this is an excellent remark! So simple, yet so awfully efective... It gives me shivers.

In the meantime, I also found a sentence by Dondo, to Caz, when he was trying to bribe him with an emerald ring: "Too much good thing can be a fault in a man, you know." Would you think this could be a hint to the above, even if it is comming from Dondo's mouth? For actually it is very true, even though Dondo was not intending to say that, he was just mocking virtue as a concept.


message 39: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (last edited Mar 29, 2009 09:55AM) (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
Lynda wrote: "So I was wondering--it just occured to me at that moment and so is kind of half a thought ;-) --if dy Sanda might have been affected by the curse due to his relationship with Teidez....possibly through his respect for "gentlemen?"..."

wow! what a great insight! I always thought that dy Sanda was a good person with good intentions but somewhat weak and not very influential with Teidez. But hadn't made this connection to the curse. I think you are right on the mark with this observation. dy Sanda is obsessed with gentlemanly behavior and making Teidez into a gentleman that he is blind to the fact that he has lost any and all respect and influence with Teidez.... All the good he tries to do is undone by the lack of impression upon the boy Teidez.

Very interesting!! You have made me think a great deal reading this and your other recent posts!


message 40: by Kiri (new)

Kiri (kirious) | 147 comments Mod
Great comments about dy Sanda and the possibility that his ineffectiveness as advisor is related to the curse!

Given that, we might assume that in time Caz's abilities would have been twisted by the curse, too.

Perhaps his very lack of ambition would have been twisted and turned into a serious disadvantage.


message 41: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
It seems that the curse spreads instantly on spouzes and children, but only after some time on friends and trusted associates. Umegat said that at first dy Jironal as Orico's proxy did well, but later his care for his family's wellfare got twisted and corrupted, possibly by the Curse. I wonder how come Betriz was spared, she was Iselles friend for quite a long time. Perhaps the distance from Cardegoss makes the Curse's virrulence weeker. But in that case we cannot excuse dy Sanda with the Curse either.
Also, Caz never mentiones that dy Jironal has the "black mantle" of the Curse...
*scratch, scratch* - that's me scratching my head in confusion


message 42: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
vorbore wrote: "I wonder how come Betriz was spared, she was Iselles friend for quite a long time. .."

good point. I had started wondering about this myself. Can we tell (or guess) who is being affected by the curse and how?
Is there any indication that Beatriz is being affected by the curse?
Is Iselle affected?
What about Caz?
Iselle's grandmother?
Is the curse stronger in the male line of the family than the female? Or in the order of succession? How long does it take to affect those around the family?

It is entirely possible that dy Sanda wasn't affected by the curse--he was just a weak and ineffectual choice for Teidez's tutor, but then we come back to the question of how could such a poor choice have been made?




message 43: by Vorlady, ImpSec Tech (new)

Vorlady | 285 comments Mod
vorbore wrote: "Also, Caz never mentiones that dy Jironal has the "black mantle" of the Curse..."

I don't think the "black mantle" shows up on anyone but the family or those who marry into the family. Orico and therefore his wife, Ista (from marriage), Teidez, Iselle.....

The story does seem to indicate that the curse was affecting Martou dy Jironal in a negative way. (pg. 293-294 is where Caz ponders the idea)


message 44: by vorbore, Ma Kosti's Apprentice (new)

vorbore | 284 comments Mod
Dy Sanda was not a very poor choice: he was a very good swordsman, he was learned, he was honest, but he suffered of another weakness: he thought that things are as described in his books - children are always polite, nobility is always noble, ladies are always ladylike etc. He had IMHO very little real experience of life. So, when he got himself a wild cub like Teidez, he could not cope. Even more, when he got to the court, with courtiers not behaving as courtiers should, and a king that was not king-like at all, he could not cope even more. And this kind of weakness is not easy to be discovered before the real trouble starts.

As for the curse: it got transfered immediately upon the wedding, or upon the consummation of the wedding, that one I am not sure about. As for the children, we have no way of knowing, Ista did not know about the Curse when the children were born, and he was not god-touched then either. The dy Jironal's behavior, or better, his corruption is only speculated to be the work of the Curse, for he has no black fog of the Curse transfered on him, otherwise Caz would know. I cannot remember that dy Lutez had that mark of the Curse either, and it was testified by Ista that his relation with roya Ias was consummated, so it had to be the sacrament of matrimony or the bloodline, to transfer the Curse... I don't think that the gender of the carrier would matter.


back to top