Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

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Buddy Reads > MWYT Chapters 6-11

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message 1: by Misfit, Moderator (new) - added it

Misfit | 587 comments Please discuss chapters 6-11 here. As noted in previous discussions, use the spoiler tags as needed and note what chapter your spoiler is from.


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm at the beginning of Chapter 8, and our heroine has survived her first encounter with Richard Byron....


message 3: by Hannah (last edited Jan 01, 2013 08:23PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: "I'm at the beginning of Chapter 8, and our heroine has survived her first encounter with Richard Byron...."

I'm there, too!

Gotta love how he offers her a ciggy as a refresher!


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

True! Here, you look ill, have a smoke....


Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: "True! Here, you look ill, have a smoke...."

haha!
how times have changed :D


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, everyone is saying that the man is mad. ;)

So far I like My Brother Michael better, and I'm not sure why. Maybe a lot has happened before the present action in MWYT, which makes it hard to connect with the beginning of the story. I like it, but I find it a bit confusing right now.


Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: "Well, everyone is saying that the man is mad. ;)

So far I like My Brother Michael better, and I'm not sure why. Maybe a lot has happened before the present action in MWYT, which makes it hard to ..."


It's been awhile since I read either, but do agree that we the reader are literally coming in, like our heroine, into the middle of an ongoing situation.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

"Exit, pursued by a Bear." :)


message 9: by Hannah (last edited Jan 02, 2013 02:46PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: ""Exit, pursued by a Bear." :)"

Wasn't that GREAT? - and the line was so appropriate for that chapter. This one one of my favorite parts in the whole book (view spoiler)

I love when she heads a chapter with poetry, play verse, etc. In fact, I love it when any author does it! Someone who did it well was Gwen Cooper in her book about her blind kitteh: Homer's Odyssey. Each chapter began with a line from the original "Odyssey", and Cooper managed to make it relevant to her true tale about her little cat.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Lea and I love that quote for The Winter's Tale. Did you read the quotes in my update feed? She give a nod to Cold Comfort Farm.


Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: "Lea and I love that quote for The Winter's Tale. Did you read the quotes in my update feed? She give a nod to Cold Comfort Farm."

I've seen them on the feeds, but not sure which one you're referring to - let me go back and read them again.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

To paraphrase: "put all the nasty things back in the woodshed" (the first quote of 3 I posted together).


Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Jeannette wrote: "To paraphrase: "put all the nasty things back in the woodshed" (the first quote of 3 I posted together)."

I was just coming back to ask you if that was the reference (I've never read CCF).


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

It's the big punchline, that the old lady says, repeatedly, "I saw something nasty in the woodshed." I didn't enjoy the book, myself, but we also watched the film adaptation, and that line sticks with you.


Willow Eeeek, all this smoking is driving me batty. I keep thinking everyone smells like cigarette smoke.

Les Beax sounds so breathtakingly beautiful though. I would love to go there. *sigh*

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Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Willowfaerie wrote: "Les Beax sounds so breathtakingly beautiful though. I would love to go there. *sigh*"

That's what I think, too, Willowfaerie. I googled Les Baux after reading about her trip there, and just sat salivating. This is a place I would certainly get up early to watch the dawn!


The amount of smoking done in this is copius. I don't think when I was younger I ever noticed it, but now I wish I had kept a tally. And reeking of cig. smoke is only trumped by cig. breath! I guess it's like garlic, though - as long as both of you partake, it's no biggie?


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

I've noticed in this book how often she also describes the "uglier" side of things. There are lots of references to beggars, old dilapidated shop fronts (peeling paint in great sheets), and lots of half-naked brown men.


SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 9 comments How far is the story set after the war? I mean to look back and see, but it seems that some of the country still could have been at its uglier side, literally, right?


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

I think it's set in the 1950s. I don't recall how many years Charity had been a widow, or if David was born after the war.


message 20: by Misfit, Moderator (new) - added it

Misfit | 587 comments Willowfaerie wrote: "Eeeek, all this smoking is driving me batty. I keep thinking everyone smells like cigarette smoke.

Les Beax sounds so breathtakingly beautiful though. I would love to go there. *sigh*

"


Same here, love the scenery, hate the smoking. I'm still not sucked in, but *mid-week* isn't always the best for me.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Hang in there! It slows down in the middle, then picks back up. And, tomorrow IS Friday!


Annie | 58 comments Willowfaerie wrote: "Eeeek, all this smoking is driving me batty. I keep thinking everyone smells like cigarette smoke.

Les Beax sounds so breathtakingly beautiful though. I would love to go there. *sigh*

"


Well, they did smell like cigarette smoke, of course. Everybody did and no one really noticed it. I remember when I was working my first job, in the late 70s, shortly before the STate of Oregon adopted its no-smoking-in-public-buildings law. I worked for the state and even though I did not smoke, I would come home smelling like cigarette smoke every day. My mom commented on it often. And I could smell it on my coat, which spent the day hanging in the closet. But public smoking was so prevalent that the smoke was literally everywhere.

The smoking in the books doesn't bother me, really. It was just a normal, everyday thing then. If you watch movies of that time period, you'll see the same thing. Everyone smokes.


Annie | 58 comments SarahC wrote: "How far is the story set after the war? I mean to look back and see, but it seems that some of the country still could have been at its uglier side, literally, right?"

I'm sure, and especially in France. So much of the war was fought there and it took them decades to rebuild. My sense of the time period is early 50's, which would be about 10 years after the end of the war. Are you old enough to remember Vietnam and the effect it had on us, even after it was over? 10 years really isn't that much time. Even children and young adults would still be able to remember the horrors of the war.


message 24: by Misfit, Moderator (new) - added it

Misfit | 587 comments Jeannette wrote: "Hang in there! It slows down in the middle, then picks back up. And, tomorrow IS Friday!"

My brain is just numb after getting the month end close out done and all, please tons of year end stuff to get boxed up. I can finally relax a bit today.

@ Annie, I used to do restaurant work years ago when smoking was still allowed, even in the bars. I just stunk after getting off work.


Laura | 52 comments I am trying to find some reference to the "wolves of Orange". Any hint? Just finished chapter 11. The car chase must have inspired some james Bond movies!! Hahahaha


message 26: by Hannah (last edited Jan 08, 2013 04:32PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Hannah (hannahr) | 405 comments Laura wrote: "I am trying to find some reference to the "wolves of Orange". Any hint? Just finished chapter 11. The car chase must have inspired some james Bond movies!! Hahahaha"

I wondered about those wolves, too, Laura, but I never followed up on researching it.

Wasn't that car chase amazing? Charity could give 007 a literal run for his money!


message 27: by Misfit, Moderator (new) - added it

Misfit | 587 comments I didn't look it up either. I was too busy reading :p


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

I just read The Winter Sea, and immediately thought of William of Orange, but I don't know a lot about him, or if the reference Laura mentioned is related to him.


Annie | 58 comments William of Orange was my first thought, too. I thought maybe it had something to do with the Netherlands (since that is where Orange was), but I have no idea what it could be. I tried googling wolves of Orange, but to no avail. I think this is the first time the internet has let me down! Usually I find SOMETHING that will at least lead me to the answer.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

Lots of pictures of orange wolves.... lol


Laura | 52 comments Annie wrote: "William of Orange was my first thought, too. I thought maybe it had something to do with the Netherlands (since that is where Orange was), but I have no idea what it could be. I tried googling wo..."

I was quite frustrated also with this particular research.


Laura | 52 comments Just found this but no mention of the "wolves of Orange"

1687 - 1691: James 2nd and William of Orange


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

It may have to do with the religious wars in France between the Catholics, who held Avignon, and the Hugenots, who held Orange in the same county(?) (mid-1500s).

http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/av...


Laura | 52 comments It makes sense Jeannette.


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

From the little bit I could gather from the internet, there were several instances where the Hugenots referred to the Catholic clergy as wolves, and, the Catholics returned the appellation to their Protestant counterparts. It's a rather broad guess, but Stewart seems to have been a scholar of history.


Laura | 52 comments Jeannette wrote: "From the little bit I could gather from the internet, there were several instances where the Hugenots referred to the Catholic clergy as wolves, and, the Catholics returned the appellation to their..."

That's why I was intrigued with this question of "wolves of Orange", it must referred to some historical background.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

I've got a friend looking at it, too. She write HF set in the Middle Ages. She can't find a reference to the wolves, either. I'm going to keep looking.


Annie | 58 comments Jeannette wrote: "It may have to do with the religious wars in France between the Catholics, who held Avignon, and the Hugenots, who held Orange in the same county(?) (mid-1500s).

http://www.avignon-et-provence.c..."


That's a good guess, Jeannette. I was also wondering if it had something to do with the war in that area.


Annie | 58 comments Oh, you know, I just thought of something else--Orangemen are protestant Irish. If the appellation covered all protestants during the era of reformation and the wolves refers to catholicism, maybe there's a connection there? this warrants more research!


Laura | 52 comments This is another branch of our research, keep going Annie.


Laura | 52 comments Jeannette wrote: "I've got a friend looking at it, too. She write HF set in the Middle Ages. She can't find a reference to the wolves, either. I'm going to keep looking."

Perhaps Susanna may help us in this particular question.


message 42: by Jemidar (last edited Jan 11, 2013 06:28AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jemidar Annie wrote: "Oh, you know, I just thought of something else--Orangemen are protestant Irish. If the appellation covered all protestants during the era of reformation and the wolves refers to catholicism, maybe..."

The Orangemen in Ireland commemorate the battle between William of Orange and his protestant forces against the Duke of Monmouth--Catholic, bastard son of Charles II and pretender to the English throne. The march the Orangemen do annually (which still gets up Irish Catholic noses) takes the route marched by the winning protestant soldiers. After winning this battle William was then invited to be King of England along with Mary, his Stuart but protestant wife.

William of Orange (and his forebears) and Orange itself are famously protestant, and waged many wars against Catholics on behalf of protestantism so Jeannette is probably on the right track. I think Orange was part of the lowlands which would now probably be in modern France.


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Orange is in Provence, in the area the book is set in.

http://www.viator.com/Avignon-attract...


Jemidar My geography sucks, I just knew it was in Europe somewhere. LOL.


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

I googled it "wolves orange Avignon" to try to find Stewart's reference, and there it was. I don't know if any of modern France extends north into the lowlands -- that's beyond the limit of my knowledge of geography, and shifting historical borders. :)


message 46: by Jemidar (last edited Jan 11, 2013 06:55AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jemidar I know a lot were sucked into Belgium, but then France claimed a lot of that at one stage. My other thought was that maybe there were two Oranges, because the one I was talking about was a Duchy rather than a town. Either way one or both of them seem to be associated with protestants.

ETA: Just checked the map and nope, that Orange was never part of the Netherlands! There are definitely two and this one isn't the one associated with William of Orange.


Laura | 52 comments The mystery remains unsolved, quite thrilling.


Laura | 52 comments I just sent a msg to Susanna, lets wait for her answer.


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

Jemidar wrote: "I know a lot were sucked into Belgium, but then France claimed a lot of that at one stage. My other thought was that maybe there were two Oranges, because the one I was talking about was a Duchy r..."

It would definitely be a bit too far south to have been part of the Netherlands.


message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

Here is the first Prince of Orange (in Baux, another place Charity visitis):

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg....

The big mystery is whether this House of Orange is in anyway related to the Dutch House of Orange.


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