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Group Read Books - archive > The Twelve: Epilogue.

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message 1: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments Don't know if this merits its own topic, we'll see. The chapter is pretty small so it might make sense to tack it onto the last part.


message 2: by Sherry (new)

Sherry  | 3693 comments if you were as confused as i was with some of this - due to lack of memory about the first book, these might help..lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twel...

http://theplotspot.net/BookPages/The-...


message 3: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments The final chapter. Rachel Wood picks Amy up and brings her to Carter. Carter tells her Zero is not done with them. Amy takes Wolgast to his final destination, where a woman and a baby are waiting. Are they Lila and Eva?

Alicia hears someone calling her to come to him, and she says "you bet I'm coming!" Is this zero do you think? She killed Martinez in the final battle.

A fitting end. I wound up liking this book after all....


message 4: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments I am glad you liked it Carol! I have been waiting for some discussion to start up on this thread, I was starting to feel like I was monopolizing some of the other threads a few weeks ago, so held back a little.
I think that it was indeed Lila and Eve waiting for Wolgast, that he was finally going to rest his spirit after his death in the first book. I wonder if that will be the last we hear of him. I doubt Amy will forget him and his advice.
Questions abound:
What is this place reached by entering the ship, the Chevron Mariner, this place where Anthony Carter seems to live in his mind? What kind of a portal is it?
My opinion (right now, it is still fuzzy to understand) is that that Rachel Wood and Wolgast held on to earth in a way, not letting go because in Wolgast's case, he felt he was letting Amy down by leaving her alone; in Rachel case, she thinks she doesn't deserve to be with her children (but are they dead?) hmmm.
Carter is one of the original virals, but not one of them, right? I need to look that up. Zero and the others can't reach him, that seems clear. (as mud) Perhaps Amy is also a wandering spirit now, or is she different from Wolgast and Rachel?
Either way, it seems that in the next book we will hear from Amy and Carter and Alicia (with Amy and Alicia in new forms) as they seek Zero, with Peter, Hollis, Sara, Michael, Lore and Major Greer going into a new phase of their lives.
what a book!


message 5: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments It's a shame that Peter is the only one left without a Boo.. what with Alicia and Amy going all viral on him. Maybe he will meet up with another warrier worthy of his affection in Book 3.

Yes, Carter is one of the originals, but a a) he developed some kind of a "friendship" with Wolgast, and b) he was able to resist in a way the others weren't. He's more like Gray that like The Twelve. I do need to go back and look that up; like you I want a refresher on Rachel Wood. I keep confusing her with Rachel Wallace of the Spencer book and Rachel Walling of the Michael Connelly books with Jack McAvoy. LOL!
Ann wrote: "Either way, it seems that in the next book we will hear from Amy and Carter and Alicia (with Amy and Alicia in new forms) as they seek Zero, with Peter, Hollis, Sara, Michael, Lore and Major Greer going into a new phase of their lives.
what a book!
..."



message 6: by Sherry (new)

Sherry  | 3693 comments Ann wrote: "I am glad you liked it Carol! I have been waiting for some discussion to start up on this thread, I was starting to feel like I was monopolizing some of the other threads a few weeks ago, so held b..."

i didn't think you were monopolizing at all, ann. i read the book but it wasn't "my kind of book" ... i found it a little confusing at times,although i did have a few aha moments! i didn't love the passage either, but enjoyed reading it with all of you- and that's why i read the twelve. not sure i'll read the next one- i might just rely on you to fill me in!


message 7: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Sherry: Thanks! we'll have to read the new one together too if you are up to it or fill you in through the spoiler threads so you can get the trilogy closure (we assume, but should we?) I am looking forward to it. I suppose it is "my kind of book" ;)
Sherry wrote: " i read the book but it wasn't "my kind of book" ... i found it a little confusing at times,although i did have a few aha moments! i didn't love the passage either, but enjoyed reading it with all of you- and that's why i read the twelve. not sure i'll read the next one- i might just rely on you to fill me in! "


message 8: by Sherry (new)

Sherry  | 3693 comments Ann wrote: "Sherry: Thanks! we'll have to read the new one together too if you are up to it or fill you in through the spoiler threads so you can get the trilogy closure (we assume, but should we?) I am lookin..."

i totally want closure- especially with lish.. but not sure i'm up to reading another one. i wasn't going to read the twelve but since you all were , it was incentive to me to read it.


message 9: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments I'm somewhere between Ann and Sherry. Enjoyed both of the books and will read the third, sooner if it's with the group. However, would probably ONLY take on another book with a similar plot if I was doing it with a group, wouldn't seek it out on my own.


message 10: by Donnajo (new)

Donnajo | 3593 comments I'm there too. I find books like that are better as a buddy read or a grp read. that way if you miss something the other person/persons might spot it.


message 11: by Barry (new)

Barry (barrypz) | 3053 comments I plan on reading the third book when it appears. Too bad I did not wait to read the 3 together.

I believe that was Lila and Eva that Wolgast went to, his heaven.

Carter and the ship? Still some mystery there.

Peter and love? That was what we saw when Amy came to him while he was on guard with Katie.


message 12: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Barry: There would be some merit to reading each book back to back, I won't re-read them them to do it though. Bring on book three, I am ready for some more answers!


message 13: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Carol: One comment made earlier was the almost too coincidental fact that Kate was Sara and Hollis' daughter. We learned later that Nina (Nitia) had known, and had in fact been there when Sara gave birth and was told her daughter was dead. And she subsequently set it up for Sara to get inside the Virals' world at the Dome for the cause, knowing that Sara's love for her daughter would be an added incentive for participating.
There was some serious underground planning going on there, just not happening fast at all.
This raises a question in my mind that I am too lazy to go back and try to read to find out - what happened with Lila's original pregnancy when she and Grey were taken by Guilder? I suppose I know the answer of course, just can't remember the details.


message 14: by Dan in AZ (new)

Dan in AZ | 2679 comments I agree with Barry about reading the books at the same time. A year from now I will have forgotten many of the nuances and questions that interest me now.


message 15: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments Ann wrote: "This raises a question in my mind that I am too lazy to go back and try to read to find out - what happened with Lila's original pregnancy when she and Grey were taken by Guilder? I suppose I know the answer of course, just can't remember the details..."

Ann, I don't believe we're told this explicitly. There is reference made to the fact that Lila has been mother to a series of young girls and when they get to a certain age... something. They rebel against/reject her and have to be removed is as much as I remember. We are left to guess as to where they are removed. I'm guessing the baby she was pregnant with when we met her was the first in the series.


message 16: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Carol: ah yes, the removal. An ominous thought with Guilder in charge. Most likely right. Lila being in LaLa Land was not very benevolent to those surrounding her.
Carol/Bonadie wrote: " We are left to guess as to where they are removed. I'm guessing the baby she was pregnant with when we met her was the first in the series.."


message 17: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments Trying to pin down the Lila's baby situation reminds me that one of the problems I had with The Twelve was the timeline of things. It seemed like thinks jumped ahead and behind willy-nilly. If we're to follow Lila's story there was a gap between when she was captured by Guilder, and pregnant, and the next time we saw her, when she had been through a series of kids, presumably 6 years each, until she wound up with Sara's daughter. Confusing.


message 18: by Ann (last edited Mar 16, 2013 02:43PM) (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments I saw where Justin Cronin was going presumably with the timeline jumps finally in the end, but it did certainly leave some gaps and had me shaking my head in the first half or so of the book - it was confusing, Carol.
The stuff never told was interspersed with the stuff we couldn't recall from the first book and had me feeling like I had to pay close attention or miss something. It was like every part of the book left you with questions (and I think he must have intended it that way)
I am a fan of authors that lead and show you things to discover on your own without blatantly telling you too much. This book was on the high end of the scale!


message 19: by Aragorn (new)

Aragorn | 5 comments Hello guys, I just found that forum searching an answer for one of my questions and I hope that you can bring light into my confusion. I finished the book a few days ago and I liked it. But, so many things confuse me.
1) Wolgast is supposed to be dead. Why is he wondering along with Amy? Is he a spirit, or is he just alive in Amy´s mind?
2) Who pressed the button to detonate the bomb? If Wolgast is dead, was it Carter? Is Wolgast a part of Carter? And shouldn´t Carter be dead after that as well? Or is he too a construction of Amy´s mind?
3)Has Amy finaly become a complete viral? On the scene where Peter sleeps outside with Kate the book says that it´s her, first with viral disturbed features but than becoming more and more Amy..
That´s for a first. Any opinion/answer ist very appreciated.


message 20: by Barry (new)

Barry (barrypz) | 3053 comments Dead does not seem to really be dead here. People who are bitten might not go completely viral, but stay in an intermediate state, like Grey and Wolgast. One has to pay attention to what the author says at the time somebody goes away for a while. Anything short of "dismembered to a bloody pulp" likely means they are alive somewhere, either bitten, or just taken.

Amy, maybe we will find out her true state in the next book. Some of the intermediate virals (hybrids?) seem to not be so bad, but can they be allowed to exist after Zero is dispositioned? Amy has always been a special case though.


message 21: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Aragorn: Good questions!
I have considered the state of being for Wolgast and Carter in this book and it is certainly ambiguous!
I have decided that the virus at its root provides a sort of immortality and that state appears to be unevenly applied to different people. Exactly why that it the case, is still a mystery, but I think stems from the initial discovery early in The Passage and the way that a virus can infect different people differently. Is it the dosage, the strength of the dose, the make-up of the recipient, or something else?
In the case of Amy and Alicia and even probably Carter, they appear (to me) to have been different in the beginning.
Aragorn wrote: "Hello guys, I just found that forum searching an answer for one of my questions and I hope that you can bring light into my confusion. I finished the book a few days ago and I liked it. But,so many things confuse me. "


message 22: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Aragorn: I am basing my opinions on the discovery in The Passage of the so called "hantavirus" in Bolivia which revealed four terminally ill cancer patients that became infected and were not only healed but also experienced cellular regeneration and an enlarged thymus. Add in a military agenda and scientists interested in replicating the results and I seem to recall there were various strains and different outcomes as they experimented in Denver.
No wonder different Virals and Hybrids Virals have different states.
I like how Barry puts it: Barry wrote: "Dead does not seem to really be dead here. People who are bitten might not go completely viral, but stay in an intermediate state, .....Anything short of "dismembered to a bloody pulp" likely means they are alive somewhere, either bitten, or just taken."


message 23: by Aragorn (new)

Aragorn | 5 comments Thank you very much for the replys.
@Barry: Yes, true, until there is bloody pulp someone might be alive. But taken Wolgast for example. As I can remember he was suffering from radiation poisoning in The Passage and his gash had become infected. He had no direct contact with the virus except taking Amy out ouf her Cell in Noah-Project. He has never been bitten and never drank blood. So how come he was still alive and couldn´t find Amy all the time? How come she didn´t heard him throughout the rest of the time in the Passage, but could hear him in The Twelve? Cronin delivers no explanation at all. And in the end, when Amy and Wolgast riding their bikes to that house where Lila and Eva are waiting, that can only be in her mind. Because Lila´s baby couldn´t be a baby anymore and of course she died when she let the dome explode. As did Grey beeing with her. We know that, because Guilder just dissolves. I hope there will be all the eplanations in the City of Mirrors....


message 24: by Aragorn (new)

Aragorn | 5 comments @Ann: Thank you. I think we all have to wait till the third book. Or I might write a letter to Justin Cronin begging for an explanation... ;-)


message 25: by Barry (new)

Barry (barrypz) | 3053 comments My copy of the books are loaned out, but I think Wolgast had the opportunity to be exposed to the virus. He certainly seemed to have it when he reappeared.


message 26: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments Aragorn:
My idea of the place where Lila and Eva were in the cottage and where Amy and Wolgast were bicycling was that it was a place to cross over to after death (or whatever these beings are experiencing), like heaven or a similar place.

Wasn't there some conversation between Amy and Carter about letting Wolgast cross over and move on?


message 27: by Aragorn (new)

Aragorn | 5 comments @Ann:
Yes there was, but I´d think this was more metaphorically spoken, meaning, that she has to let him go "off" her mind, so he can finally be released having done his job protecting her, even if it was only mentaly to keep her grounded or bound to humanity somehow... or something like that...

@Barry:
Yes, could be, but there is no such mentioning in the books, neither in the Passage nor in the Twelve. And why couldn´t Amy hear him for almost a century? And than all of a sudden he was there.. Well... Let´s hope we´ll get the answers next year....


message 28: by Barry (new)

Barry (barrypz) | 3053 comments The new book won;t release until I forget everything in the old books.


message 29: by Aragorn (new)

Aragorn | 5 comments That is why I´m not reading anymore. I´m listening to audio books whenever I can. This way I can do it while I´m driving, or during shopping, or work out a.s.o. That way I finish the book faster than by reading it. So, a few weeks before the third book comes out, I will listen to previous books and will be in the picture again....


message 30: by Barry (new)

Barry (barrypz) | 3053 comments We'll all be counting on you to update us.


message 31: by Carol/Bonadie (new)

Carol/Bonadie (bonadie) | 8062 comments I think I will come back to these threads when the third book is announced. There is no way I can re-read or re-listen to the first two.


message 32: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14625 comments I plan to do the same Carol! It helped a lot with the second book to review our comments on The Passage. I am looking forward to it!
Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I think I will come back to these threads when the third book is announced. There is no way I can re-read or re-listen to the first two."


message 33: by Sherry (new)

Sherry  | 3693 comments Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I think I will come back to these threads when the third book is announced. There is no way I can re-read or re-listen to the first two."

good plan. although i count on all of you to remind me about what happened :)


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