Divergent (Divergent, #1) Divergent discussion


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Did anyone get annoyed at "Tobias?"

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Don't get that discussion question wrong: I like Four. He's cool. But did anyone get annoyed at his name? Once it abruptly switched to Tobias it was so jarring I just couldn't get a grip on it until after a while. Plus, I don't think, especially since this is written in first person, that a girl would suddenly adapt to Tobias after calling and thinking of him as Four for so long.

Plus, I don't like the name Tobias...every time it's mentioned in Tris's inner monologue, she says it so loooooovingly it just pisses me off for some reason. I hereby refuse to call him Tobias. Ugh.


Sophie I loved him! I thought the character development of him revealing his true name to Tris was a large factor in the story. I thought he, and his name, was awesome!

Random fact - My gran's toy poodles name is Tobias, but we call him Toby :D


message 3: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 30, 2012 07:08PM) (new)

Yeah, that too. The name of Tobias itself is just so un-Four-like. After the name changed, the way I imagined him in my head changed so abruptly it was just annoying.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm a fan of Four, but not one of Tobias.


message 5: by Rachel (new)

Rachel I totally liked the name four better.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Four is WAY better than Tobias


Loony YES!

Four sounds sexier than Tobias. The latter sounds goody-goody for him.


Katie Well, I think that Tobias would just be an Abnegation name, just like Tris's full name is Beatrice, which definitely does not suit her, in my opinion. I like Tris much better. I agree that she got used to Four's name change rather quickly, but I think there was a part in Divergent where Four said he liked it when she called him Tobias. Just talking about Four in general, I think he feels like "Four" is just his mask, but "Tobias" is who he really is.


Chantelle I love Four but I do agree, I hate his name Tobias, I don't think it suits him, it just sounds wrong for four, he needs a badass name, I just call him Four because Tobias is just not right!


message 10: by Emily (last edited Dec 31, 2012 08:22AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Emily Well, I think Tobias is supposed to be a distinctly Abnegation name, as others have said. 'Beatrice' and 'Caleb' are similarly old-fashioned. I don't think Tobias is necessarily supposed to fit 'Four', because he changed a great deal in Dauntless. I think his real name had to be distinct enough that you can understand why he'd choose to go by Four- for one thing, it seems like it would really stand out as an Abnegation name, and so if he had continued to go by it, everyone would likely be able to figure out what his birth faction was. Second, it's uncommon enough that when the Erudite published the article about Marcus' abuse, the name 'Tobias' would likely have been more strongly associated with that article than if Four had a more common name, say 'David' or something.

So yeah, I don't think Tobias is a particularly attractive name, but it makes sense plot wise with the whole name-changing thing. As for Tris using it, it didn't bother me. He told her he liked hearing it again, so she adapted according to what he wished her to call him. Besides, I think Tris would have recognized his revealing his background to her to be a major step in their relationship, so she was probably glad to be privy to a part of his personal background that other people weren't, so she switched to using Tobias in her mind.


message 11: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 31, 2012 08:36AM) (new)

You have a good point. Still, it just doesn't fit his...personality. I'm not saying it's too dissimilar to Four, only that it's so un-Four/Tobias-like. Eh. I guess sometimes I just whine too much. ;)


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

No, but he did seem a bit like stalker at the beginning.


message 13: by Vee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vee Gretzinger finally a discussion on his name! personally i wasn't feeling tobias...its just so long, and it always makes me pause when i get to his name.. ugh can't we all just call him Four? nick names are always better.


message 14: by Riah (last edited Jan 02, 2013 05:43PM) (new) - added it

Riah I felt like when the Author changed his name (well changed what she was calling him) she inadvertantly changed him. Maybe that was just that Tris got to know him better, but I really felt like the moment he become "Tobias" to us he became someone else. I started really hating his character changes and even how Tris acted with him. (view spoiler)
I honestly have hated most of the character devolopment and most of it started when the author started calling Four "Tobias".


Keith Mausisa Jocelyn wrote: "Don't get that discussion question wrong: I like Four. He's cool. But did anyone get annoyed at his name? Once it abruptly switched to Tobias it was so jarring I just couldn't get a grip on it unti..."
me too!! xD I even read it out loud as Four instead of Tobias, because the name looks like less appealing than Four, and the name is not really fitting in wth a tough guy like FOUR =))


Keith Mausisa Vee wrote: "finally a discussion on his name! personally i wasn't feeling tobias...its just so long, and it always makes me pause when i get to his name.. ugh can't we all just call him Four? nick names are al..."
True, true, true, i was so much annoyed with his name but its good that at least some of the characters in insurgent still cares to call him FOUR still .. I really missed that nickname =)))


notyourfriend He is a GREAT Four and a GREAT Tobias!


Chisom I don't really give a fudge what he's called. You can't base a character on his name, but the actions and things he says and does. I accepted Four being Tobias because not only did it play a major part in the story, but also gave him character. Before he became 'Tobias' he was just a really hot dude who paid attention to Tris and her survival skills, but after he became Tobias he turned into the really hot dude that really cares and has feelings, especially for Tris. The change of his name made the greatness of his character greater and to me that's all that matters. Though I have to admit it did annoy me at first but I definitely got used to it especially after the second book. Now I'm always like TOBIAS TOBIAS I NEED U TOBIAS! ;) But I sure do miss Four...... <3 besides all that, this is an awesome book!


message 19: by em (new) - rated it 5 stars

em I liked Four and Four as Tobias. I liked Four a bit more, but I also like Tris better than Beatrice. But, I think Tobias is like, an Abnegation name, so that's what he's called. Four is a Dauntless nick name, so I like that, too. He can't really change what Marcus or his mom named him when he was in Abnegation, so he's Tobias and Four.


message 20: by Eli (new) - rated it 3 stars

Eli Tobias is nice, and also it makes it logical that he changed his name to Four.


Elise totally agree with most of these comments. Four fits his personality way more, and the minute he became Tobias, he felt like a different person.
thats why i hate it when authors change a character's name halfway through the book. you get used to referring to him/her as whatever name they used to be, and all of a sudden, they're someone else. it just doesn't work!
and besides, nicknames are always better!


message 22: by Hec (new) - rated it 5 stars

Hec Hernandez i like four so much better than tobias when i read it i just say four not tobias


message 23: by Vee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vee Gretzinger Elise wrote: "totally agree with most of these comments. Four fits his personality way more, and the minute he became Tobias, he felt like a different person.
thats why i hate it when authors change a character..."


YES! i felt like he became someone else too! like all his secrets were solved, and he wasn't "mr. badboy mystery man" anymore...he was just...tobias. (i still love him though)


Nicki Yeah the name just didn't seem to fit. I would stumble over it while reading, every time thinking that the author should have picked a different name. Not that it's hard to pronounce, it just isn't right. And you know what? Abnegation was a word I wish showed up less too lol


Rachael I think it is interesting the way Four's/Tobias's personality changed from hard core to gentle around the time Tris started using his original name. I think the change in name and personality just shows how well rounded he is and that he is more than a static character. I love both sides!


Godiva3 I hate the name Tobias! For me he is always Four!


message 27: by Vee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vee Gretzinger Godiva3 wrote: "I hate the name Tobias! For me he is always Four!"

yes same here! the name Four has mystery and secrets behind it... tobias is just a name... all the dark mysterious wonders just kind of dissapear...plus the name just doesnt flow well for me


Avery Goforth I liked four better!


message 29: by Jesten (last edited Jan 08, 2013 01:48PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jesten For some reason the name Tobias brings to mind a weird guy with a goatee and heart sunglasses. I like four. But Tobias is okay too.


Nas acutally, sometimes Tris does refer to him as Four even after knowing his name, Veronica Roth explains this on her blog, and that is because it's reflecting the way Tris is seeing him at that point in time and the way he himself is acting, like the loving tobias, or the feirce alluring four.


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

Haha. I prefer the fierce alluring Four. Minus the alluring. I don't give a shit to his sex appeal. He really does become a bit of an angst-fest in Insurgent though...


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

I know, right? Half the time I was wishing Tris would punch him in his stupid face already. Something for him to pull his head out of his ass for once. Four is supposed to be mature, but really, from Insurgent you'd think he was a whiny ten year old for god's sake. His overinflated ego is insufferable. When there was a line something like "I was afraid of him" I was starting to get a bad, bad, baaaaaaad feeling.


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

I'd choose Amity. I'm a coward, to be honest, and Amity seems like the best place so I can feel extra safe.


message 34: by Riah (new) - added it

Riah Jocelyn wrote: "I'd choose Amity. I'm a coward, to be honest, and Amity seems like the best place so I can feel extra safe."

My sister and I decided to "faction off" our family. My sis decided I was Amity and I think she would have been Dauntless or Divergent. My amity though cannot be because I'm a peaceful person, because I do argue. I just hate tense situations and I like the quiet! :)


April The name Tobias doesn't really sound like it's easy to say. His name was Four, which I thought was weird, but so soon after his name was changed it confused me a little bit, and so did the way Tris was acting toward him during the final elimination part. But I kind of figured out who he was before Tris did. And then it was confirmed during their trip to (SPOILER ALERT) Tobias's fear simulation. And then how she doesn't know how to feel about him. Some parts of the book confused me a little cuz I was distracted somewhat, so some of the parts were confusing. That, and I read the book in 4 days, so I prob missed some important parts. It was a lot of information to take in in just 4 days. I'm still thinking about the book. I think I'll have to re-read it. I read a lot of it while I was busy with other things so it didn't make 100% sense to me, and I'm sure I will have to re-read it so that the book actually makes some more sense. I'm sure I also skipped over some small parts as well. I don't know. But there were parts of the book that completely confused me.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Sorry about that. But I kind of figured out that he was Tobias before she did. Because I've figured out that if a small detail is mentioned in the beginning of the book, then it's meant to be important later. So about halfway through the book I was able to figure it out. but overall I liked the book. For me, though Four's attitude was a little confusing, and I didn't really know that there was a relationship forming between them.


Czarina S. I did xD Well, i was perfectly fine with Four, it's just that i feel like Tobias is Four's pervy alter ego xD


Rhiyaah yeah .. i would much prefer to call him Four .
I like Four better than Tobias (ahahaha)
even though they are logically the same, i view them differently. For me , Four is the trainer whom which i love(ahahaha); the guy who cares for Tris; anyways, THE Four in Divergent. Tobias, well , i view him as , let's see. ugh ! i don't know . i just don't like him much in Insurgent. i like him in Divergent better than in Insurgent.
you get my point? if not, then *sigh* it's just the way it is..


Hayley Em This is a bit off topic, but...

Did anybody else pronounce is To-bee-as because thats how I did and then apparently Veronica went on her website and said it was pronounced To-buh-is. and I was just like: ok then.


message 39: by Riah (new) - added it

Riah Hayley wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but...

Did anybody else pronounce is To-bee-as because thats how I did and then apparently Veronica went on her website and said it was pronounced To-buh-is. and I was jus..."


The name is pronouced phonetically... Toe-bye-us. If Veronica Roth said to pronounce it To-buh-is she has changed the pronunciation or has some weird accent. It's litterally like the word toe connected with the word bias (like to cut something on a bias or to be biased against someone or something).


rachel ~ trans rights are human rights The whole point of her calling him Tobias was because that was who he became. He was no longer Four to Tris because she knew the real him, not the facade that he put up in order to protect himself.

So really his name means a lot more than just a name. It's who he is to Tris and ultimately his change in personality. Remember that this is in Tris' point of view, so I mean it's how she interprets him, and he changed from Four to Tobias when he showed her his past.

Also I think Roth did say "Toe-bye-us"?


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

rayful wrote: "The whole point of her calling him Tobias was because that was who he became. He was no longer Four to Tris because she knew the real him, not the facade that he put up in order to protect himself."

Why, of course :) But, the name is no less annoying because of it, to me at least. Also, I like to think of Four and Tobias as two parts of a whole, not Tobias as the REAL him and Four as the superficial. Four is a part of him too, and to be honest, it's who Tris knew the most before she fell in love with the guy.


message 42: by lora (new) - rated it 5 stars

lora baccus This bothered me not one iota! Love his character.


message 43: by HCM (new) - rated it 3 stars

HCM Well since that is my son's name I would have go say I love the name...lol oh and we pronounce it Toe-bye-us

I don't think it is that big of a jump to think of someone in a different name that you originally know them.

What does piss me off is how he always seems to be there to save Tris


Madeleine i like that he was formerly Tobias, but I like the rugged casualness of calling him Four. He acts more like Four than he does Tobias. That name seemed to go with old wounds, so I wish Tris didn't keep twisting that knife and referred to him as she knew him, as Four.


Emily Maddie wrote: "i like that he was formerly Tobias, but I like the rugged casualness of calling him Four. He acts more like Four than he does Tobias. That name seemed to go with old wounds, so I wish Tris didn't k..."

He asked her to call him Tobias though. Tris didn't just start doing it on her own.


message 46: by Vee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vee Gretzinger I'm gonna have to agree with maddie. Plus once she started using Tobias... I feel like there was no more mystery behind him.. I like mystery boys...


Aliyah I don't know, but Tobias and Four didn't seem like the same people at all, they seemed completely different.

I liked him better as "Four." When he was Four I thought him and Tris kind of belonged together, you know? But then he said his real name was Tobias & that's what Tris started calling him, and it was just so repulsive, y'know? That's just my opinion


Madeleine Emily wrote: "Maddie wrote: "i like that he was formerly Tobias, but I like the rugged casualness of calling him Four. He acts more like Four than he does Tobias. That name seemed to go with old wounds, so I wis..."

i know that, but i just didn't get why he would want to be called that. He abandoned the identity his father gave him. He wanted to be a new person. Which is why Four was great. But almost all ruggedness vanished when he started being called Tobias again.


Madeleine Also, Kind of silly thing I noticed while reading. I never pictured Four as a virgin. I pictured
Tobias as one pretty easily, but not Four.


message 50: by Tess (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tess I hate the name Tobias. Four is such a better name.


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