The Republic of Plato The Republic of Plato discussion

Plato's definition of morality

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Jenny Moench I'm still not finished with the book, but I've read to the part where he finally defines, 'morality', and I have to say that at first I was dissappointed and worried that the translater had attached the wrong word to the definition. 'doing ones own job', ? What the hell was that? Then I looked the word up in the dictionary and thought about it, and well, I guess if you take compassion out of the mix, (and maybe it technically shouldn't be there anyway), then I guess that might be what you are left with. Or am I missing somthing?I guess I've always thought of a moral person as someone who is willing to go out of their comfort zone to help someone else. Maybe I need a new term for that behavior. What should I call it? Anyway, besides that, there are many interesting points that would be fun to discuss. Maybe we should get together at a coffee shop sometime and get a discussion going if there's anyone else interested, let me know.

message 2: by Wendy (new)

Wendy I can't remember right now, but did we ever meet Lane's dad?

I'm watching an episode right now, and Rory is on the phone with Lane and says "your parents" to Lane. I know we get plenty of Mrs. Kim (and I totally love her), but what about her husband?

message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

I've never seen her dad. He didnt even walk her down the aisle.

Sarah No, we have never seen Lane's dad, and he has never been mentioned specifically, just the "my parents" thing.

message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

Mrs. Kim mentioned him once..I cant remember what it was..but it was something about when she married Mr. Kim.

message 6: by Alison (new)

Alison I read about this somewhere. I'm thinking at first he was alluded to, then he was said to be dead. I say it again, the Kims need a spin off.

Sarah I don't ever remember them saying he was dead. But there was the time Lane came in while her mom was sleeping and gave her a kiss, and Mrs. Kim was alone in the bed.

message 8: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Ahh, okay! At least I don't feel crazy for not remembering him being on the show, although I don't remember him being dead.

I wonder what his personality would've been like in comparison to Mrs. Kim. She just has such a strong personality. Do you think he was this timid little man or more similar to his wife?

message 9: by Natalie (new)

Natalie It's something I've wondered about too. Has anyone noticed that Anna Nardini is played by the same person who played Jess' dad's girlfriend? Interesting, I say.

message 10: by Arielle (new)

Arielle Yes! I noticed that too Natalie, and it drove me crazy!

Sarah Yes, Natalie, and I hated that! Like we weren't supposed to notice? Charmed did that too. The woman who played Phoebe's boss was in an episode the first season as a different character.

message 12: by Jenna (new)

Jenna That always bugged me too about Jesse's dad's girlfriend being Anna Nardini. It also irks me that Jesse's stepsister (or his dad's girlfriend's daughter) was also an awkward bookworm like April, who are both mini Rorys.

message 13: by Erica (new)

Erica Poole I always somehow expected it to come out that Anna was Jess' stepmother and it would be this really weird connection thing. I hate that they didn't explore that since they were using the same character in such close time proximity!

I wonder if they mention anything about Lane's Dad or lack thereof on the complete seasons DVD in the bonus stuff, anyone get it!?

message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

i think mrs. kim mentioned her dad as it related to her "wedding night".

message 15: by Alison (new)

Alison Well, I did find this, and I guess I was wrong about his death...does anyone have ASP's e-mail address?

Mrs. Kim, played by Emily Kuroda, is a conservative Korean woman living in Stars Hollow, Connecticut, and she is the mother of Lane Kim, Rory Gilmore's best friend. Notable aspects are her Seventh-day Adventist faith and her vegan diet. Mrs. Kim is owner of Kim's Antiques which has a "you break, you buy" policy. She has appeared in every season of the show.

Mr. Kim never appears in any of the episodes, including Lane's wedding, however Lane specifically mentions her father when her parents plan to send her to Korea (s.2 ep.1). Mrs. Kim mentions Mr. Kim when reminiscing about her wedding night.

message 16: by Cody (new) - rated it 4 stars

Cody Wilshire I think it was kind of implied that he had passed...I just figured all the 'plans' etc. were things that Mrs.Kim implied more on Lane because her husband died than anything else. I also just assumed Mrs.Kim's overreacting to Lane having a boyfriend or liking boys was also her protecting Lane from going through the same loss she did...

That probably doesn't make any sense and is completely overreaching but that's how I saw it lol.

message 17: by Meghan (new)

Meghan In the first season he was referred to as if he were in the other room. However, as it became more apparent that they were not going to write a part for him, I think they starting referring to him in past tense. I always thought that was the odd string they never cleared up.

I'm so with a Kims' Family Spin Off. Gotta love Korean babies! heh

message 18: by Mimi (new)

Mimi I always felt like maybe he lived in Korea

message 19: by Shannon (new)

Shannon Yeah the whole Mr. Kim thing was kinda weird. He was alluded to at the beginning and then never discussed again........ Weird.

Since we are also talking about characters they reused. Remember the weird harpist they had at the Inn at the beginning of the show? Then they used that same lady at the eccentric dresser for Emily. I'm glad she never became a regular.

Also in regards to Jess' stepmom. Apparently they were going to try and do a spinoff and give Jess his own show. Weird, aye?

message 20: by Dottie (last edited Jan 07, 2008 10:51AM) (new)

Dottie The harpist character was Jackson's real life wife IIRC. And I think she was considered for Sookie at some point.

Interesting all the background on the double usage of actors though.

Arctic The harpist (Alex Borstein) was also Ms. Swan on Mad TV. Looks like she played a bunch of bit parts in the first season of Gilmore Girls according to IMDB.

I could go for both a Lane spin-off and a Jess spin-off. anything that would provide more Gilmore girlage.

message 22: by Alison (new)

Alison I believe that harpist (who is married to the actor who plays Jackson) was the original Sookie, until the casting was changed at the last minute. She & her husband both got their start in improv. I know for sure she played the character that was called in to dress Lorelai and Rory (by Rory's grandmother)....she was a seamstress, or a designer (an older lady).

message 23: by Jenna (new)

Jenna I think her name was Miss Celine, Alison. I kind of liked. She referred to Lore and Rory as Natalie Wood and Audrey Hepburn which I totally saw.

But about Jess's spin-off, apparently it was a no-go because of production cost in Santa Monica. I'm kind of glad Jess didn't get his spin-off because something tells me that I woulodn't have been too crazy about the way his character would have played out. I'm glad the way GG rapped up Jess Mariano's story.

message 24: by whichwaydidshego (new)

whichwaydidshego I swear we discussed the actors-playing-duel-roles before (a couple months ago) because I remember pointing that out all that about the harpist also playing Miss Celine as well as initially being cast as Sookie and being Jackson's wife in real life, etc. I mean, we did... DIDN'T we???

message 25: by Alison (new)

Alison Could be. Are we coming full circle, now? Are we going to start discussing Jess or Dean all over again now? Unfortunately I have no short-term memory. I think it's all the diet coke.

Sarah Yep, we've discussed this before.

message 27: by Dottie (new)

Dottie Well even with big holes in my sieve (that's my brain) -- I don't remember that conversation and even if the GG talk goes in circles -- it can only help glue people new to the group into the "club" don't ya think? Especially those who are just getting attached to the girls.

message 28: by whichwaydidshego (new)

whichwaydidshego Dottie, I was just making sure I wasn't going crazy... not complaining.

Arctic Dottie, I like you. You make good sense, even with holes in the brain. :)

message 30: by Alison (new)

Alison Makes sense. This group is growing every day. :)

message 31: by Alina (new)

Alina I'm afraid we won't be able to get to the same coffee shop for geographical reasons - but let's pretend this is virtual cafe.

The translation I have is a bit different, but I think I found the passage you're talking about. In my text, it goes:
"We must recollect that the individual in whom the several qualities of his nature [reason, passion and desire] do their own work [i.e. are correctly balanced] will be just, and will do his own work."

I think the problem is not so much the translation of the word "work" as that of the word "just". I have no idea what the Greek term was, but could it have been something closer to "perfect" or "balanced" or "correct", rather than "righteous"? About a page or two later, Socrates asks several times whether a "just" man would be likely to commit sacrilege, theft, adultery, perjury, etc. It sounds like Socrates is trying to ascertain that his "just" man would also happen to be righteous - so the two terms can't be quite the same.

To try to answer your general question, I agree that "doing one's own work", one's duty, doesn't sound terribly inspiring - until you try, really try, to do it. Personally, I don't really do half of the "work" I ought to be doing as a perfect student, daughter, sister, neighbour, citizen, earthling, etc. After all, in drinking his hemlock and refusing to flee, Socrates was only doing his "work" as a philosopher and citizen of Athens!

message 32: by Dottie (last edited Jan 08, 2008 06:28PM) (new)

Dottie Thanks Arctic and Alison.

Michele -- I knew you weren't complaining just figuring it out.

You know what? I think it's keeping up with my own two girls who are closer to the age of most of you that keeps my sieve in shape -- even so, I do find it gets a bit "out of shape" now and again. Books and good discussions help -- and BTW I'm following the Atonement thread and finding it interesting -- will comment there later.

Megan This is what says when researching "Lane Kim" "Lane has referred to "parents", plural, on many occasions, and said "My mother and father" in Season 2".

Maybe Father Kim got lost in the furniture maze of the store and never made it to the kitchen. Did anyone notice that whenever Rory or Lorelai came home the other frequently shouted "Kitchen" yet they weren't ever really cooking or doing kitchen stuff?

message 34: by Kristen (new)

Kristen In one of the episodes Mrs. Kim mentions that she just slept with Mr. Kim once and she got Lane. She pretty much alluded to her never sleeping with him again. I just thought that was funny because that's all it took Lane to get pregnant.

message 35: by Haley (new)

Haley anderson yeah i never heard them even mension lanes dad. AT ALL

message 36: by Misty (new)

Misty He was mentioned more frequently in the early episodes, and then it died off, and I figured they decided against him. But if you'll notice, Lane says "my parents" through out the series. I think he's one of the myriad people they just never show, like Al from Al's pancake world...

message 37: by Meghan (new)

Meghan Good point about Al. I always wanted to meet him.

(I think Mrs. Kim had Mr. Kim stuffed in some antique trunk somewhere. heh)

message 38: by El (new)

El Internet Movie Database says, "Lane's father lives with Lane and her mother, but never appears in the show."

I sort of attributed it to the fact that it is a very powerful feminine show, with strong female characters and that it might detract from Mrs. Lane if there was a mister floating around in the scene. You can blame the feminist education I received from a predominantly and historically women's college. :)

In that light, I found this tidbit on IMDb somewhat interesting:

"Luke's character was originally written to be played by a woman, but the producers figured that 'there wasn't enough testosterone' in the series and that resulted in Scott Patterson turning the character around."

message 39: by Meghan (new)

Meghan El wrote: "In that light, I found this tidbit on IMDb somewhat interesting:

"Luke's character was originally written to be played by a woman, but the producers figured that 'there wasn't enough testosterone' in the series and that resulted in Scott Pa..."

Really?? I *cannot* imagine the show with Luke as just another Sookie!

message 40: by El (new)

El Meghan wrote: "Really?? I *cannot* imagine the show with Luke as just another Sookie!"

Yeah, I couldn't see it either. Every once in a while the testosterone is important to balance so many of the jokes. Plus, it would make the sexual tension between that character and Lorelei more awkward. ;)

message 41: by DJ (new)

DJ NOOOOOO,there wouldn`t have been a "GG"without Luke!!!!
Kirk as the only testosterone?

message 42: by Meghan (new)

Meghan DJ wrote: "NOOOOOO,there wouldn`t have been a "GG"without Luke!!!!
Kirk as the only testosterone?"

No. There's always Michel and Taylor to help round things out. ha ha

message 43: by Meghan (new)

Meghan GG without Scott Patterson would NOT have been the same show.

message 44: by DJ (new)

DJ Re- Lanes Dad,I guess I`ve always thought that he had either
A.Run away from home.
B.Gone back to Korea as Mrs Kim wouldn`t give him a work visa.
C.That Mrs Kim had sold him as he wasn`t nailed down!
(I confess this is my favourite theory!)

And no Luke would have meant no "Lukes Diner"just think how bad the coffee would have been!

message 45: by Sarah Mae (new)

Sarah Mae Wendy wrote: "I can't remember right now, but did we ever meet Lane's dad?

I'm watching an episode right now, and Rory is on the phone with Lane and says "your parents" to Lane. I know we get plenty of Mrs. ..."

There was something in the special features on the season 1 discs, I believe, that mentions looking for an actor to play Lane's dad but not finding one and just deciding to go with him as mentioned but never seen.

message 46: by Meghan (new)

Meghan i can imagine it being really hard for them to find a good counterpart/match for mrs. kim!

message 47: by DJ (new)

DJ Meghan wrote: "i can imagine it being really hard for them to find a good counterpart/match for mrs. kim!"

Good point Meghan!

message 48: by Ann (new)

Ann This is too hilarious!
I, too, always wondered about Lane's dad. I think I just assumed (in later episodes) that he wasn't around. Probably because Mrs. Kim never said "Wait until I talk to your father about this!" or anything similar, because - can anyone see Mrs. Kim looking to her husband for support or ideas? I don't think so...

Also, WHAT, Luke's character wasn't originally in the series!? I always assumed he was one of the main characters from stage one! Then again, he *really* isn't in the initial episodes that much, is he? Well... PHEW anyway! Stars Hallow without a Luke? Impossible ;)

message 49: by DJ (new)

DJ I know it just doesn't bear thinking about!!!

Munchkinguy Also, remember the psychological aspect of the book. The imaginary society is imagined for the purpose of understanding the mind of a Just person. So in that case, a Just/Moral person is one who has a mind in which each part does its proper job.

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