Twilight (The Twilight Saga, #1) Twilight discussion


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Why does everyone hate Bella?

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Okay I have read this book at least five times and I loved because i was and used to be obsessed. Because of this book I began to love reading and ever since I have read this book i have become an as would like to put it a bookworm. ANYWAYS y question is why does everyone hate her saying that she is downright pathetic is not an answer. Okay lets analyze this character. She fell in love okay soooo doesn't make her pathetic. I know so many people who would also fall in love and want to be by the person they love right? THen why is everyone saying shes so stupid she fell in love with a vampire who wants to drink her blood guess what people she fell in love with him. The author is pretty much implying that love can overcome anything. Now some people say oh she is so stupid to go to the ballet studio and have this guy who wants to kill. Her first and foremost she is a mere mortal and she thinks that the best thing she can do is to put herself in her mom's place so everyone can be safe..... in my perspective this is extremely noble. SO anyways please tell me your thoughts because i would really like to know! Thanks!!!!


Fatima Souane i never hated bella. but i guess people don't like her or maybe it's jsut stephanie's style of writing that people don't like. twilight isn't a book i'll drool about but it is very enjoyable.


Kataury My personal problem with Bella mainly came from the second book, New Moon. The first book she seemed sensible and was a pretty good character. But I could barely make it through the second book because Bella became such a weak and pathetic character. Getting that hung up over a boyfriend, enough to jump off a cliff, just made me irritated with the entire series after that. She couldn't have the gall to try and be strong or get over him, she just cries and weeps like some sad little girl? Definitely not an ideal heroine, and definitely not a character that I could ever respect or appreciate in any sense. There are girls that are all sorts of boy crazy and believe a relationship is the biggest thing of their lives, but that's just because their still juvenile and full of a bunch of hormones. Bella's in High School, relationships aren't meant to be longlasting because she isn't mature enough yet, even Edward, after living for a good 180 or so years, wouldn't have developed the prefrontal cortex of his brain after being bitten so he'd be stuck with the mentality of a teenager for the rest of his life. First book I thought it was a pretty intimate romance novel, second book, a bunch of angsty teenagers getting so hung up over people that they'd commit suicide.


Fatima Souane yeah she jumped off a cliff!


Kataury Amongst other things, yes.


Siobhan I said it in another thread:

-Bella swears she never lies. Then lies to her mum, her dad, her new friends, Edward, Carlisle, her boss, herself ...

-Bella says she is mature, old beyond her years. And then Edward/Alice/Jacob/Charlie has to wait for her to finish temper tantrums. They try to reason boundaries with her, making compromises, and she sticks her heels in to get exactly what she wants, or goes behind their backs to get it anyway. Very mature.

-Bella says she is selfless, but running away from home to go to Italy for three days without so much as a note? Selfish. Can't see anyone from her old life when she becomes a vampire but then Charlie practically moves in? Selfish.

Give me something actually redeeming about her. And don't give me that clumsy shit, she stumbled once as a device to make Edward smell her. Clumsy indeed.


message 7: by M.R. (new) - rated it 1 star

M.R. Graham I think Siobhan got one of my major ones - Bella claiming to be mature for her age. I started reading these in high school, when I was about Bella's age, and she struck me as more like a middle schooler. I'd love to say that I found her immature because I was so very mature for my age, but I really wasn't. So, like the clumsiness, we have one more trait that is shoved down our throats in exposition and yet never manifests itself in the action.

And of course, being one of the nerdy kids, I keenly felt her disdain for nerdy kids. For all her talk of being an outsider and a misfit, her attitude toward her classmates is that of the worst "popular" stereotype. At least she never said aloud some of the things that found their way into her narrative.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree with what Siobhan and M.R. said, but for the most part, I hate how Bella is so extremely bland. Within the first three pages of Twilight I already formed the opinion that Bella was as boring as hell, and that opinion did not change a single bit for the next 500 pages.

Her personality is shallow and lacks any real psychological depth--I suspect for the sake of being a self-insert for the reader. I don't think Bella is absolutely horrible, but she's about as interesting as a rock. Her personality, while there, is nothing particularly unusual, original or sympathetic IMO. Ultimately she does not stand out as an exceptional character in the romance genre as a whole, or fantasy genre, or any other genre Twilight can be classified in.

Typically when I read a book, I want the main characters to engage me and fascinate me. They don't have to be likable (as long as they become likable as the story develops later on), they just have to be interesting and unique. Bella is not unique in any way, shape or form in my opinion; her personality is bland as hell--and as if that weren't enough, it's also pretty generic. Right off the bat I felt like I was reading Bella's character for the thouuuuuuusandth time.

There are other reasons I don't like Bella--she's not very likable, Mary Sue, etc. etc., but the way she bores me to death is my main problem with her.


Siobhan Oh my yes, she's blander than when my mum makes salmon. And such a hypocrite. We're meant to hate Jessica for being spurned by Edward, for being popular, for wanting Mike when Mike wants Bella, for disliking Bella for her role in each of the above. That's a teenage girl! But because we're in Bella's head we have her rationalisation (yaaaay ...) so even though Bella is like Jessica, Jessica is MEAN while Bella is NOBLE.

Coincidentally, I don't have to love any characters to love a book. My favourite is we need to talk about Kevin and if you can like anyone in that book you're a lot more accepting than I am. But then I hated Holden Caulfield and therefore hated catcher in the rye (or maybe I just didn't get how it was meant to be a revolutionary book for adolescence) so it probably all comes down to expectations at the end of the day.


message 10: by Nyaore (last edited Dec 25, 2012 10:09PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Nyaore And we're also supposed to side with her when she nearly gets Jessica and herself attacked in New Moon as well, all so she can go hallucinate over Edward some more. Because how dare her friend be upset for being put into a situation where she could have very well been assaulted?
It's all the little things that slowly build up and make me hate her, and most of the Cullens aside from Emmett and sometimes Rosalie. (When she's not being bent around to suit the plot.) She's just not someone I care to read about, and frankly it's characters like her that have turned me off from the first person genre. It's far easier to hate a character when you're in their head all the time and can find nothing of value.


message 11: by W (new) - rated it 5 stars

W I like Bella well enough, but i don't think her character has enough depth, it's very one dimensional and plain. She is seen as an outsider, but she does that to herself, and the way she treats her fellow classmates is selfish. The only people she can get along with is her dad and the Cullens. Especially when she abandons her "friends" while they were trying on dresses. She is okay, but that is about it.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Because she's a freaking Mary Sue. And Mary Sues are no fun. Just be grateful she's not a slut like Zoey Redbird.


message 13: by Doruntina (last edited Dec 26, 2012 04:59AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doruntina i have read every Twilight book at least a couple of times each (for Edward of course)and somehow i never liked Bella, not even once. I mean, i dont hate her but she is just so.... clumsy and closed in herself and sad all the time and never laughs and is NOT a kick ass heroine like i like them. She's just not DANGEROUS!!! and NO fun at all. I get that she is supposed to be like that but it wouldn't hurt if she would laugh and go out and just get drunk or something every once in a while. Edward on the other hand -and Jacob.... ooh boy!!! lol


Mochaspresso Siobhan wrote: "Coincidentally, I don't have to love any characters to love a book. My favourite is we need to talk about Kevin and if you can like anyone in that book you're a lot more accepting than I am. But then I hated Holden Caulfield and therefore hated catcher in the rye (or maybe I just didn't get how it was meant to be a revolutionary book for adolescence) so it probably all comes down to expectations at the end of the day

."


I don't think The Catcher in the Rye ages very well, meaning that I don't think future generations will necessarily relate to it because times are different.


message 15: by Jeni (new) - rated it 2 stars

Jeni First, I don't hate her. I don't really want to root for her, either. I could have liked her more if we had heard the story from a third person point of view. I was weary of being in her angst-ridden mind.

I don't hate the books. In fact, the story is actually a pretty decent idea. I just feel the execution of the story made it hard for me to empathize with her.

Add in typographical errors, grammatical errors, and exaggerations and I was exhausted by the time I had finished with the books.

It really could have been a great story with a bit of care and distance.


message 16: by Siobhan (last edited Dec 26, 2012 06:57AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Siobhan Jeni wrote: "First, I don't hate her. I don't really want to root for her, either. I could have liked her more if we had heard the story from a third person point of view. I was weary of being in her angst-ri..."

My sentiments exactly. If she kept to vampire canon, wrote in third person in a similar style to Harry potter (in that the reader is not omniscient, but rather views things from on Bella's shoulder, so to speak) yet had the idea of rational vampires etc etc, it could have been a masterpiece.

The third person bit would take away another thing that annoys me, where she removes narration from Bella to Jacob. She should have done that from the start, not at the end of the third novel. It's the same issue I have with the house of night books. Establish your narrator early. If you want a split narration, alternate from the beginning.


Julia She's supposed to be ordinary looking girl, but since the first day in Forks high school, boys are going crazy about Bella.


Mochaspresso Julie wrote: "She's supposed to be ordinary looking girl, but since the first day in Forks high school, boys are going crazy about Bella."

I wonder if she actually is really ordinary or is that just how she perceives herself?

Maybe Bella is a bit like Bridget Jones from The Bridget Jones Diaries in that regard. She always described herself as overweight and is obsessed with it but it is also clear that the other characters don't see her that way at all.


Jackie Castle I've read the books several times, too. Though I don't hate Bella, she is a great discussion started for how NOT to act in a relationship. My daughter and I have had many talks over Bella's neediness and how she makes Edward her "god" so to speak. Nobody should ever put another person in such high regard, or be so driven to throw everything away for a 'boyfriend' no matter how much you may love them. And I agree, she's not a good role model for other teen girls.
Still, somehow, Stephine managed to weave an interesting story, despite how it's written. I'm still trying to figure out how she did it.


Edward Batres Isabella Marie Swan is highly unlikable because of her inability to have a reason to live without indecisively hooking up with mythical creatures.


message 21: by Nyaore (last edited Dec 26, 2012 01:20PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Nyaore Mocha Spresso wrote: "Julie wrote: "She's supposed to be ordinary looking girl, but since the first day in Forks high school, boys are going crazy about Bella."

I wonder if she actually is really ordinary or is that ju..."

I think it's fair to say she just has painfully low self esteem for most of the series, and doesn't realize that she's actually quite pretty until quite a ways into it. Especially since when she does actually describe how she looks in detail, most of the things she cites as flaws aren't usually perceived as such. Which is fair, it's not uncommon for otherwise pretty young women in this day and age to have their perceptions of their own body warped by those around them and the media. Society puts a lot of pressure on girls to conform to a certain image in order to fit it's idealized concept of beauty, and leaves many with tattered self esteem if they deviate even slightly.

Canonically she's not drop dead gorgeous until after the transformation, but I'd have considered her pretty even before it - rather than plain. As for why everyone fawns over her, I chalk that mostly up to wish fulfillment on Meyer's part. (At least in regards to the amount of non-platonic fawning that goes on. Not in regards to the general friendliness of the town.)


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

I just didn't like how she was so pathetic and obsessive over Edward. She had other friends that were willing to give her a new chance even though she was a total brat to them and didn't pay any attention to them for a year and just blew them off again once she had those hallucinations with Edward in them. She had Jacob and still jumped off a cliff just to see Edward in her imagination and didn't even think for a second about how worried he or Charlie would have been. Keep in mind this was when she believed Edward didn't even want her anymore and was simply being pathetic and didn't appreciate the people around her. She was just so blind and oblivious to the people who cared about her most and only wanted what she couldn't have. She blew Jacob off until he started avoiding her and she suddenly became super interested in what he was doing. Coincidence? I don't think so.


message 23: by Siobhan (last edited Dec 26, 2012 01:25PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Siobhan I think it's more Bella was the new girl, everyone's intrigued by the new girl because hey, they've known each other since they were in diapers, conversation must run dry, new distraction will provide new topics. New girl takes this info as 'we love you Bella' rather than 'a distraction from boredom, hurrah!' new girl seriously self-deluded.

IMHO.


Mickey I think that it's common for people to understand that women are held to certain standards of physical appearance, but I don't think many people have realized how we hold women to different standards according to how they "should" act in a way that we do not do for men. If you look at other (male) protagonists, they are often given free passes for the same type of behavior that Bella is hated for. Bella is depressed after a loss? Edward was admittedly worse off. Bella's supposed suicide attempt? Edward had an actual suicide attempt, but it's not discussed with the same vehemence. Bella's reckless behavior? Harry Potter was every bit as reckless. Bella's needing to be rescued? Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker needed more saving than Bella. But this is not remarked on because men don't have to be super-strong to have worth. Women do.

I think the reason that so many people hate Bella is she is more realistic than the Buffy fantasy creature we've been programmed to like.

Personally, I think Bella's a step in the right direction.


message 25: by Nyaore (last edited Dec 26, 2012 01:35PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Nyaore Siobhan- You make a good point, and it does lend credence to the idea that Bella is an unreliable narrator. (Even though Meyer wrote her with the intention that we take everything she perceives as the truth.) Actually, that'd have made the book more interesting by far. We find out that many of Bella's perceptions of the town are wrong, and that the information she's been feeding us throughout was biased to begin with. From there, Bella must either confront the false perceptions she's made and move forward - or continue living in the fantasy that she's built. Actually, one of my favorite ideas proposed by various anti's for the series is that the entire series is a delusion on Bella's part, and that Edward and his family as we know them never actually existed. They're real people, but not the nouveau riche vampires we're lead to believe they are - in fact they're all normal human beings. One idea even put forth that Edward's love for Bella wasn't nearly as strong as she had made it out to be, if we went with the delusional angle, but that Bella needed to perceive it that way in order to both remain sane and to have some feeling of self worth. I'd have loved it if Meyer wrote this entire series like normal, dropping hints towards that end, and then viciously ripping the ground right out from under us at the end by showing us how things really were once we were out of Bella's head.


message 26: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 26, 2012 01:37PM) (new)

Siobhan wrote: "Coincidentally, I don't have to love any characters to love a book."

Kind of for me. I have to love them by the end of the book--I don't have to love them right off the bat because that would be asking too much. But my first requirement for characters is that they have to be interesting. Characters, in my opinion, is the most important element to telling a story. You could literally get every other aspect of storytelling right--plot, pacing, prose, etc.--but if you screw up the characterization, to me that could possibly ruin the novel. If I'm not interested in the characters, I don't care about them. And if I don't care about them, I don't care about the plot either, because the characters are the one driving the plot. And so on.


Siobhan Oh man, if I read that book I would not put it down! But you would have to craft it well, because it was a dream/vision/illusion is such a risky device, but if done well, that would be spectacular, and raise so many questions about mental health. Like, would Bella have made this illusion about Edward to comfort herself after deciding to leave her mother and her home to spend time with a father who prefers to work, fish, or watch baseball to anything else.

And you could explain Edward's absences as an illness, something recurrent without being terminal. That way she can fantasise about how he must be skipping school for vampire-specific reasons when actually he must rest that day, or he's part home-schooled, or he's getting meds.

It could be a new Life of Pi for teenagers.


Nichola For me, Hate in this case would be a strong word but, as lead characters go she definitely doesn't make my favourites list. The main reason is because a lot of what is portrayed to be love is more like infatuation. All this, 'I'd rather die than live without Edward' malarky, sitting in the woods forcing half a town to search for her, jumping off cliffs and accepting rides from seemingly dubious strangers whilst potentially leaving her friends to mop up the aftermath in order to hear her ex's voice, dumping all friendships and revolving her world around Edward etc. In my opinion, that isn't love it's infatuation which I find tedious and weak.

I think the other reason was that her character had the potential to be so much more. She was introduced to us as a teenage girl with experience beyond her years. She made the decision to move to forks so that her mum can pursue a life with her new boyfriend. I got the impression that she was quite intelligent and somewhat independent. To go from that kind of logic to potentially getting people killed whilst trying to be a martyr (third wife hand cutter scene) really doesn't sit well with my initial impressions of her. A lot of what is claimed about her character seems to be contradicted by her actions in the book.


Clara I don't think people hate Bella, they just don't like her portray in the movie. Personally, I don't like the Twilight movies. I read the first two books and my impression was that Bella is a very passive character, and I guess some people are tired of the ''lady in distress'' female characters.


Erica Clara wrote: "I don't think people hate Bella, they just don't like her portray in the movie. Personally, I don't like the Twilight movies. I read the first two books and my impression was that Bella is a very p..."

I agree I liked Bella until I saw the movies. Kristen Stewart did not play her as a strong smart young woman and that was the way I pictured Bella when I read the books.


Jordan I love Bella! I think she is super relatable and I think she is a great character! I think everyone hates her because people want a strong character and they think she's weak. Personally, I think she is one of the strongest female leads I have read of, people just have different angles.


Siobhan Jordan wrote: "I love Bella! I think she is super relatable and I think she is a great character! I think everyone hates her because people want a strong character and they think she's weak. Personally, I think s..."

Interesting, in what ways do you think she's strong? Genuinely intrigued!


Jordan Siobhan wrote: "Jordan wrote: "I love Bella! I think she is super relatable and I think she is a great character! I think everyone hates her because people want a strong character and they think she's weak. Person..."

Certain sacrifices, like the one in the first book when she was going to save her mother. She knew she would probably going to die but she did it anyway... But that's just my take on it, obviously so many people hate her so that's not how everyone see's her.


Nuran I don't hate her but she can be very annoying. I liked some of the jokes she made in the first book, but she just became very depressing. Her extreme lack of confidence was irritating. I know her lack of confidence is suppose to represent most teenagers who aren't confident and that confusing years as young teens, but she was just too far lacking in belief in herself.

But most of all, for me, she seemed and acted like a regular teenager but the story made her seem like she was an old soul, so different from the other teens, as if every single other teen is super confident and dumb with no depth. There are many daughters, especially if they're not spoilt rich kids, who help their mother or father out. Many who like to read. Many female teen who lack confidence. Many female teens are interested in finding love and wanting something and it's not all about sex or lust.

Maybe it made normal teens who could relate to Bella to feel better about themselves.

It just seem weird to make Bella seem like a rarity and every other teen is dense.


message 35: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 26, 2012 08:24PM) (new)

Jordan wrote: "Personally, I think she is one of the strongest female leads I have read of, people just have different angles."

That's true, everyone has different angles. Though I do have to disagree that Bella is one of the strongest female leads in literature. I won't try to argue that she's weak, but there are TONS of strong female leads.

Katsa from Graceling is pretty awesome.
All the major female characters from Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus (mainly Annabeth Chase, Thalia Grace, Zoe Nightshade, Hazel Levesque, Reyna, Hylla) are strong.
All of the major female characters from Harry Potter (mainly Hermione Granger, Molly Weasley and Ginny Weasley) are strong.
Liesel Meminger from The Book Thief is strong.
I'm currently reading Divergent and Tris is great as well.
Lyra Belacqua from The Golden Compass.
Sadie Kane from the Kane Chronicles.
Alina Starkov from Shadow and Bone.
Alanna from Alanna: the First Adventure.
Sophie Newman from The Alchemyst.

And that's only a few from YA! Lord of the Rings has Eowyn, Game of Thrones has Arya and Catelyn Stark, and maybe even Daenerys Targaryen. Elizabeth Bennett from Pride and Prejudice. The list goes on, really...


Doruntina I agree with Jocelyn completely. Bella is really far from strong as much as i love the story - that's the truth. My favorite heroine is Kate Daniels from Kate Daniels Series by Ilona Andrews and SHE is STRONG, no doubt about that but Bella - definitely not.


Veronika I don't hate Bella. I hate the acting of Kristen Stewart! I've never seen emotions on her face. Not a very good actress.


Siobhan Jordan wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Jordan wrote: "I love Bella! I think she is super relatable and I think she is a great character! I think everyone hates her because people want a strong character and they think sh..."

See, to me that's not strong. She lied to Alice and Jasper and ran away into what was so clearly, to me, a trap. She didn't call Florida, she didn't ask Edward for advice regardless ... to me that's selfishness, or a lack of proper thought process.

But I admire you for referencing something that built your impression of it, rather than shooting me down for asking.

And regards to other people's strong female character lists, these are some I've noticed (some YA, some older children, some adult. I'm not fussy):

Jenna from the Septimus Heap books
Remy from This Lullaby (Sarah Dessen)
Lena from Delirium
Lucy Pevensie from the Chronicles of Narnia (and my first role model)

But I like female characters who are able, and tenacious, but still have a vulnerability to them. That makes them perfect characters to me. Like, Remy in my list above, she acts tough, like she needs no one, she can hit someone on the head with a full fountain coke from a passing vehicle ... but her daddy wrote her a song when she was a kid and she uses it whenever she needs to cry. In her cupboard in her room where no one can get to her. She's one of my favourite literary characters.


Mochaspresso I agree that all of those excellent examples of strong literary characters....but I also think your views of "strong" in regards to women are extremely limited and/or one-dimensional. I don't think women have to be "warriors" or "badasses" or even physically fighting/slaying something to be viewed as strong. Rosa Parks didn't lift a finger toward anyone and I consider her to be one of the strongest women in all of history. I think Bella does eventually evolve into a strong character by the end of the series.

In instances when everyone else around her is freaking out....she has the ability to remain calm and think decisively. You may not agree with her choices, but the most extraordinary thing about her imo is that most of the time...her first instinct is NEVER to run away from a dangerous situation. She faces them head on. Edward's often is, though. So is Jacob's. All of the men are always "We've got to get Bella to safety." and she is always saying "No, I won't go until I know so and so is safe."

I think her decision to cut herself to distract Victoria demonstrates strength. I think her decision to continue her pregnancy when she knew it might kill her demonstrates amazing strength. I think the steps that she took to ensure Renesme's safety if things didn't go as planned with the Volturi demonstrated strength.

Some other women in literature that I consider strong....

Both Anna and Kate from "My Sister's Keeper" by Jodi Picoult. These girls both show strength in how they face illness (cancer) and the possibility of death from that illness.

Hester Prynne from "The Scarlet Letter".

Anne Frank from "Diary of a Young Girl"

Celie from "The Color Purple"

The women from "The Joy Luck Club" by Amy Tan

Opal from "Because of Winn Dixie"


Siobhan I don't think Bella always running into danger makes her strong, it makes her stupid and irrational. She makes some poor choices because of her obsession with danger and often puts more people in danger because of her choices. The entire fourth book is about how her choice has endangered not only her family, but any of their vampire friends, which to me is a sign of stupidity and selfishness, not strength.


message 41: by Amy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Amy Siobhan wrote: "I don't think Bella always running into danger makes her strong, it makes her stupid and irrational. She makes some poor choices because of her obsession with danger and often puts more people in d..."

Now you are talking about abortion - because that is the only "choice" she could have made to protect everyone from the Volturi. Being pro-choice does not equal strength. It takes more strength to decide to keep the baby than it does to run off and "get rid of it." I don't agree with you there at all. I do agree she runs into some stupidity, but I do not feel like she should have chose abortion, against her beliefs, to protect the vampires. That is a personal decision. She stuck by her personal choice even though they were all trying to convince her to get rid of the baby.


Siobhan Who mentioned abortion? Her decision to coerce Edward into sex led to pregnancy sure (how crazy is that!) but she didn't choose to get pregnant. She chose to have sex. However, she did choose to keep Charlie in her life, she did decide to take that walk with Renesmee and not keep her as hidden as previous trips out, she did choose to stay where she was and have the others look for 'witnesses' to die with her. Her choice to be with Edward, to be a vampire, and everything that went with it, is what I meant.

And thanks for the preaching, I wouldn't have my child if I hadn't made a mistake and completely blinded myself to the choice of abortion. I had no idea what strength of mind any of it would take without your input.


Jordan Jocelyn wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Personally, I think she is one of the strongest female leads I have read of, people just have different angles."

That's true, everyone has different angles. Though I do have to disa..."


That's a good list. I haven't read them all, but I have read some. Is Divergent good? I have it, but I am reading a lot of books right now, so I don't want to start it yet, Should I soon though???


Jordan Siobhan wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Jordan wrote: "I love Bella! I think she is super relatable and I think she is a great character! I think everyone hates her because people want a strong character an..."

Yeah, I don't see the point in shooting someone down unless they are intentionally bashing the fans. I couldn't care less that people hate the book. What gets me is when they hate the fans. And I find it strong but I guess we all have different opinions.

:)


Jordan Mocha Spresso wrote: "I agree that all of those excellent examples of strong literary characters....but I also think your views of "strong" in regards to women are extremely limited and/or one-dimensional. I don't thin..."

I so agree! I mean, I know I would be frickin scared just to be dating a vampire, LOL!


Jordan Siobhan wrote: "Who mentioned abortion? Her decision to coerce Edward into sex led to pregnancy sure (how crazy is that!) but she didn't choose to get pregnant. She chose to have sex. However, she did choose to ke..."

Technically, Jacob chose to keep Charlie in her life. She agreed that the Cullens could tell Charlie she was dead, and Jacob phased in front of Charlie so they could be in each other's lives, which isn't what Bella wanted.


message 47: by Nuran (last edited Dec 27, 2012 07:29AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Nuran Siobhan wrote: "Who mentioned abortion? Her decision to coerce Edward into sex led to pregnancy sure (how crazy is that!) but she didn't choose to get pregnant. She chose to have sex. However, she did choose to ke..."

To be fair, the witnesses were adults and didn't have to choose to side with Bella. Then on the other hand, speaking of it as if it was reality, I don't think murderous red eye vampires care about other people's lives, human or vampires, and Bella wouldn't have had as much support. The witnesses would have stayed to watch an execution, not to save her.

For all the danger and aggression that SM tried to paint vampires, especially ones with red eyes, most of them seemed out of character.


Doruntina You definitely should read Divergent! It's a really good story and you will love Tris.


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

That's a good list. I haven't read them all, but I have read some. Is Divergent good? I have it, but I am reading a lot of books right now, so I don't want to start it yet, Should I soon though???

So far it's good! (I'm currently reading it.) I've heard that the sequel was disappointing though.


message 50: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 27, 2012 07:38AM) (new)

Jordan wrote: "I so agree! I mean, I know I would be frickin scared just to be dating a vampire, LOL!"

^Seconded! I have to admit I'd be pretty scared.


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