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Group reads > Chapter 17 Agrippin's Encounter

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message 1: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
I have finished the majority of this chapter, which gives a lot of answers and also allows us to the Siberians, which originally were only seen as savages in Chapter 1.

message 2: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
I think that I noticed a little detail. Lavender's hair was cut to stay out of her eyes. I don't think that was ever the case before and I attributed it to her enslavement as the Master's may think it would increase productivity. Am I on the right track?

message 3: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Actually Lavender had her hair cut in short bangs in front and shoulder length on the rest. That's been the whole time. She has bangs, which she keeps short enough to stay out of her eyes, because she just wants her hair out of her eyes so she can see (because of her gift). I think that was in Heather's chapter, if not, Lichen's.

message 4: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Hmmm. For some reason, I thought because she was shy that she had her hair in her eyes and that it was kind of to hide her. Pseudo memory.

message 5: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Shy may not be the right word. However, Lavender was not one to want the limelight. She certainly does seem very bold in some of the chapters in her dealings with authority figures.

message 6: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments She's definitely an introvert. And Marigold's the extravert, in my endeavor to make their personality traits opposite.

I don't remember too well about the hair, but I know she has her cloak. She would often put her hood up and hide. She has moments when she just doesn't want to deal with people, like on Jan Mayen Island.

Maybe that was the moment you were thinking of- she was hiding her eyes as best she could, because she just didn't want people asking her about them. There was a meal when they were waiting to set their trap for the Bog Man. At the meal (in a Marigold interim), Marigold recognizes that her sister has just about had it with people and is starving for some solitude. Marigold picks up the slack and entertains the group with stories about the castle and Svalbard's royal family, while Lavender hangs her head quietly and tunes it all out.

message 7: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
I think it was just impressions from the first chapters of her not wanting to be noticed while Marigold had long hair that drew attention.

message 8: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Yeah, that's definitely them all right. Merry Christmas!

message 9: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Merry Christmas!

message 10: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
I'm on page 333. I wanted to read more, but my mom came in the room and interrupted me. Suspense! Tying together.

message 11: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Thanks, yeah, lots of reveals and tie-ins in the last few chapters.

Okay, so if you're on page 333, you're done with Agrippin and Chapter 18, the short/poetry-like chapter? Ready for the behind the scenes on those?

message 12: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments (Although I'll need a few days at least, maybe a week)

message 13: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Yes, the behind the scenes when you have time. :)

message 14: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Okay, sounds good. Probably a few days at least, maybe the weekend.

message 15: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments I started the thread for the final two chapters. Feel free to post/comment, and I think maybe this weekend for Agrippin's behind the scenes.

message 16: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Chapter 17 Behind the Scenes

Hang on, this is going to be a long one. So will the final chapter’s behind the scenes. I have to do it justice now that we’re finishing up, but with so many reveals and tie-ins, there’s just so much to say.

First of all, my disclaimer. Ancient Canada is an alternate, fictional world with alternate, fictional cultures which in no way represent my view of any non-fictional cultures.

Agrippin’s chapter, or something in Siberia, was an inevitability since Heather’s chapter in the beginning. In Heather’s chapter, she has a mini-epic where she leaves home, goes up north to visit Simon, runs into a stray Siberian woman along the way, gets arrested for being where she is, and winds up having to come back home in someone else’s custody. It’s a rough outline for Lavender and Marigold’s epic.

Lavender and Marigold have so far left home, wandered throughout the known world, visited Simon (in the Living Cave creature, where they found he was still alive, sort of), and while on Thule they ran into some Siberians, getting arrested/enslaved just for being where they were. This wasn’t narrated as it happened, just mentioned by Agrippin early on in his chapter. Finally, at the end of Agrippin’s chapter, they come back to Canada in someone else’s custody. A lot like Heather.

Even without all that, you had to figure we’ll be going to Siberia before the book’s over. It just wouldn’t be right if Frodo from Lord of the Rings never went to Mordor.

Visiting Siberia allowed me to reveal so much about Polaris, not all of which I had planned from the beginning. Some developed along the way in earlier chapters, and other background stuff just came out in this chapter as I was writing it. Nostradamus wrote in four-lined verses called quatrains, which have an ominous, eerie, end-of-the-world feeling to them. That’s what I used to model the Polarian quatrains, which were ancient texts written by Polaris hundreds of years ago (he’s about 500 years old now, but figure only about 30 when he led the slave break from Siberia, then migrated with the group to found Canada).

Apocalyptic literature typically has a few elements to it, one of which is an ‘insider feel.’ If you’re not part of the group, which in this case would be one of the Siberian slaves that broke free with Polaris, you might not understand the message. That would be the only way the message could spread within an oppressed group; it would have to pass by the oppressors unnoticed or not understood. That’s something I heard during the writing of the book, and applied to this chapter.

One problem with Apocalyptic literature is what we do with it centuries later. How do we interpret it? We’re no longer of the group because the times have changed so much. It’s hard to know exactly what it meant, because it was designed to be exclusive, and sometimes takes on a whole new meaning, which may actually be relevant to modern times, although not intended. But good music lyrics, like a Bob Dylan song, can mean different things to different people, so why not. But the problem is that in the book’s alternate Canada, as generations passed and the original slaves died off (except Polaris), these quatrains took on another meaning, turning Polaris into more than what he originally intended. And he allowed that, because it helped him keep the peace in his country, by being ‘from the heavens.’ It was a gradual, originally unintended lie, but comparing the original intent with the meaning modern to Lavender, she finds it an unacceptable deception tolerated by Polaris for his own benefit.

I have an anosmic (no sense of smell) friend who once said it was around five years old when his parents realized he had anosmia, or at least that age when they believed him and everybody was on the same page. That was why Lavender was five in the Grandfather’s chapter when they discovered her gift, and Agrippin was four in his chapter when the same thing happened within his family.

The same friend helped me name Agrippin. I asked him for some classic sounding Russian names (pre-revolution). He came up with Kirill, Pavel, Rodion, Anatoli, Anton, Leonid, and Dunai. Those were good names that fit Ancient Canada, but I went with Agrippin because not only did it have an 1800’s Russian sound, it originated in Ancient Rome. Actually, Agrippina did. Agrippina was a Russian empress as well as a famous ballet dancer about 100 years ago in Russia. As for Velorik, I wanted something non-classic. Something Soviet sounding. I was thrown off watching Dr. Zhivago, how a character was named something (Pasha?) before the revolution, then joins the Soviets, and becomes known as Strelnikov. I looked into it and found out all those Soviet names were not given by birth (then I felt stupid for not knowing that), but each syllable means something. “Great fighter of the great October revolution,” or whatever it was. Velorik means great liberator of peasants and slaves, intentionally ironic because Lavender and Marigold are slaves, and he isn’t doing a lot to liberate them. Over the course of the chapter, however, Agrippin and Velorik go from sort of hero and villain to eventually switch roles. I didn’t intend this originally, but I knew I needed a climax to this chapter, and decided it would be Agrippin’s killing of Velorik. Hence Agrippin had to start battling some demons and have a fall from grace/innocence, while Velorik started more and more showing his human side. Going back to the names, Rodion was suggested by my friend, and I did use that for a spirit that the necromancer spoke with. So I didn’t totally waste my friend’s time.

message 17: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Agrippin’s eyes were originally yellow, but I changed them to orange. They were originally yellow for a few reasons. Lavender has purple eyes, and purple matches yellow well. Lavender and the green-eyed peddler have purple and green eyes respectively because those are common colors in the Northern Lights. But I knew I’d eventually run out of colors that you can find in the Northern Lights, so I wanted something for Agrippin that no real person had, yellow eyes. If I remember right, I changed it because yellow was the color of the glow on the people (like Simon) inside the Living Cave, and I didn’t want them to share that because it’s unrelated. As for Polaris, his eyes are red because he represents fire. If I were to write a sequel, there would be a lot more than just four gifted characters, and I know I’m going to have to think up some new colors. Or at least give them unique names, like “teal,” even though I may have already used blue and green by then.

The way I thought of the genetics behind the thorned and unthorned Siberians is based on Mendelian genetics. And nothing even as complicated as blood types. But they don’t know about Mendelian genetics in Ancient Canada, so they can’t explain it like this: having thorns is a dominant gene. If either of your parents gives you the thorns gene, you’ll have thorns. You wouldn’t know what your other thorned parent gave you until you started having kids. But in the meantime, your gene pair could be thorned/thorned or thorned/unthorned. Either way you would appear thorned, and not be forced into slavery. If you were thorned/thorned, all of your children (barring mutations) would be thorned. That’s preferable in this society. If you were thorned/unthorned you could send off either one of the two traits when having a child. If you and the other parent also sent off an unthorned gene, your child would be unthorned/unthorned. Since that’s a recessive trait, and there’s no thorned gene in the child, it would be unthorned. And therefore a slave. This worked out great for me for two reasons- I was able to show a little bit about our alternate Siberia’s culture…children taken from their parents into slavery, children taken from their parents into the military. I was certainly thinking of Sparta while writing it. The second reason is it allowed me to make Polaris (and the entire original Canadian settlers) be escaped slaves. If everyone in the group was an escaped slave, there wouldn’t be a single thorned gene. They would begin the new culture in Canada and none of their children, or any ancestors (barring that mutation again) would ever be born thorned. Of course as Agrippin explains, babies aren’t born thorned (that might kill the mother). The thorns develop later as the bones grow, adding to the suspense of whether or not you’ll get to keep your child.

Going back to Dr. Zhivago, I borrowed an idea from the movie (Omar Sharif version of course). The Strelnikov character destroyed a peasant village ‘to make a point’. Omar Sharif’s character, Dr. Zhivago, countered, “Your point, their village.” Agrippin says how the Siberian military dictatorship did similar things with insufficient evidence, done ‘to make a point,’ and to control their country through fear.

Agrippin’s gift to read dreams fit perfectly into some of the Jungian psychological themes I wanted to get into. Carl Jung was a contemporary of Freud, and is maybe best known for ‘Jungian archetypes’ and the theory of the collective conscious. Archetypes are classic character molds like the hero, the shadow, the mother, the child, the king, the thief, and almost any common character we all seem pre-programmed to recognize. Even symbols, like fire, qualify. They are present in dreams, which is something Carl Jung studied, and they are present in mythology as well. It all fit too perfectly for this chapter. I had to pay extra for that. Agrippin explains that Siberian mythology was actually the Rosetta Stone for him to unlock the symbols in the dreams he could watch. These Jungian symbols run very deep psychologically, and sometimes mythology does too. Agrippin lists a litany of symbols, which was actually me listing ones we have already seen throughout the story, in order. I’ll give the quote with my behind-the-scenes addition in parentheses: “the guardian spook (aka guardian angel, the green-eyed peddler, which is Lavender’s guardian angel), the milking mother (either Heather or Ellie, the tollimore), the creature of living earth (Lichen), the child (Sam, the orphan), the warrior (Commandant), the leviathan (the Living Cave creature- note, leviathan is a term from the Bible), the tragic couple (Anders and Ylwa), the royal house (King Ulffr, Queen Erika, Prince Oslo, Princess Sanna), the disturbed and undead (Tollund, the Bog Man), the sky warrior (Horus), and the alchemist (Baker), and some of his own symbols, which I often see as well, such as the silver moon, the golden sun, or the platinum star.” Remember, Marigold went from golden blonde to platinum blonde with Baker, and she’s still platinum blonde right now.

message 18: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Besides Marigold, Lavender’s black robe has been her traveling companion. She abandons it in this chapter. That was her shadow. The shadow archetype is the animal side we all have. Agrippin interprets Lavender’s dreams that involve a tree, a shadow, and a fire. The tree is growth and development. The fire is Polaris. The shadow is Lavender’s animal side, in the dream (robe is the shadow when awake). The fire consumes the tree in one dream, showing that Polaris has stunted Lavender’s growth and development (by exiling her). In another dream, Lavender is facing the fire (Polaris) and yet the shadow is not cast behind her; it’s cast in front of her. It violates the ‘rules of optics’ as Agrippin says, but what it means is that Lavender’s shadow is standing in between her and Polaris. Her animal side is dominating her ability to deal with him, and to get to him, she has to go through her animal side/shadow. In short, she hates him so much she lusts to kill him. And she isn’t proud of that, but that’s her shadow.

Back to the robe. Agrippin does a huge favor for Lavender, and doesn’t get a proper thank you. In fact, she’s a bit too hard on him, even for killing Velorik. But, in doing so, he has given in to his shadow. The favor he does the girls is literally freeing them, but also freeing Lavender of her shadow (somewhat). When she and Marigold run off at the end of the chapter, they do so without Lavender’s robe. Agrippin inherits it, and wears it as a wandering rogue. He’s left nothing but her shadow, something he inherits for killing Velorik. Yet his thorns are his animal inheritance (which is why he had to kill Velorik with the thorns), so he finishes the chapter with two shadows really, his and hers.

Cleanthes was a Greek philosopher who said, “A wicked man has no more free will than a dog tied to a cart.” That’s one of my favorite quotes. (Lavender says, “ovidon tied to a cart.” No dogs or any of our real-world domesticated animals in Ancient Canada.) Cleanthes was a stoic philosopher, but as previously mentioned, that doesn’t means he’s a stoic in the modern connotation, like Horus was. As slaves, the girls discover the beauty of free will. It isn’t freedom, at least not as I define it. Ultimate freedom is impossible; there’s always a physical, social, or other kind of limit somewhere. Can’t breathe under water; I think that was the example. But free will, having nothing to lose, and not emotionally being attached to possessions or petty concerns, that’s the sort of feeling the girls enjoy as slaves, which allowed them to be so difficult for Velorik to deal with early on (even before that, listing themselves upon capture as ‘experienced wet nurses’).

The symbol of fetters is persistent while the girls are at sea. Although they’re chained to the boat, it’s really Agrippin who is trying to break free his own fetters (dog tied to a cart), which is his allegiance to his country, but more specifically, trying not to worry about life beyond the only life he’s ever known, as a loyal intelligence officer.

But there’s a problem with free will, and this is where Agrippin was right and Lavender missed something important by rejecting him at the end. You just can’t love someone as much as Agrippin loves Lavender and expect to have free will. Agrippin’s heart may be like the dog tied to a cart, which is Lavender, but you just can’t cut that rope and still be in love.

When Marigold says to Velorik early on, “I would suggest not wagering your own sanity to control our minds. We have already delivered two to asylum,” she’s talking about Tollund and Baker, both of whom they helped get to the King’s Closet on Emberland.

Stockholm Syndrome. The tendency for us to sympathize with our captors in hopes that obedience and good behavior will lead to preferential treatment. Velorik attempts to sucker the girls into this, threatening to send them to a very, very distant slave camp, “Yet in my kindness thus far, I have not.” They just laugh at him. Marigold says very sarcastically, “Oh, thank you so very much! You truly are favoring us with kindness! Now I’ll begin to form an obedient, loyal, emotional bond with you. In return I believe you will protect us without selfish gain!” Lavender adds, “Can we call you ‘Father?’”

I really emptied the tank in this chapter. I even talked about necromancy towards the end. Any psychological trend or ancient phenomenon with psychological themes, whatever I could cram in there, I did.

message 19: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments When Marigold is trying to play matchmaker early on for Agrippin and Lavender, Lavender says, “His body has thorns!” Marigold teases, “Yes, and so does yours, apparently!” This is the third time in the book Marigold has used this line. First time was with Lichen, Lavender says, “He is made of stone!,” (“and so are you apparently,” says Marigold to Lavender), and the second time was when Horus talks about having feathers, and Marigold says, “Yes, and scales, too apparently.”

One of the nice things about writing a book is you have to do some research. For example, originally Agrippin would have cataloged about 30-40 dreams each night for the girls. Turns out we have about 5-8 dreams per night, that’s it. I personally almost never remember mine. They’re also longer than I realized, 30 minutes or so. And we don’t dream and snore at the same time (maybe there are exceptions to this, but this was all the interesting basic stuff I learned about dreams while researching how to write about them).

For most of the book, italicized words are for emphasis, but in this chapter they differentiate between speaking Siberian and Canadian. In most books, they are used when someone is thinking, but I used ‘single quotes’ for that. Anyway, you’ll notice that whenever we write a Polarian quatrain, it’s not in italics in this chapter, but it would have been in previous chapters. Something I never really remember addressing: these quatrains are supposedly from the time of the slave break. The slaves would have been speaking Siberian. Maybe over five hundred years the languages went their separate ways, but why then would the five hundred year old quatrains be in modern, rhyming Canadian? Oh well.

Augery is a form of necromancy. It’s the process of reading the flight patterns of birds. Divination is the interpretation process of necromancy. So, when a flicker of light overhead seems to indicate a Featherman following them, Agrippin wonders what kind of divination the necromancer (who is somewhere in the army) is figuring from the flight path. Of course we find out it’s Horus early on in the final chapter.

In this chapter we finally get a guess at whatever happened to the Siberian baby from the first chapter. Heather, while pregnant, crossed paths with a thorned Siberian woman and an unthorned child. The baby was Siberian; it was the woman’s child. That’s why she defended the child so fiercely. Heather mistakenly thought it was a captured Canadian baby, not realizing that the thorns don’t grow right away. We can now imagine the woman’s anguish losing her baby, which went back in the possession of the archer. We never see the child again, and no, it’s not Agrippin (he’s a few years older than Lavender, maybe 19 to her 16). We can only figure he may have grown thorns and been sent back to Siberia, maybe even is somewhere in the army encampment. Lavender says, “I don’t think we’ll ever know,” and I plan to stick to that. It’s a little too neat and tidy for him to reappear, although tempting. I thought it would do more damage than good to the story. Some things we just never get full closure on, but at least Lavender hints at that.

In the necromancy scene, Agrippin discusses the defined shadows (from the necromancer’s fire) cast behind every Siberian. That’s Jungian stuff again. The necromancy scene gets Agrippin so disgusted with his company and with himself he begins to consider drastic measures. He wishes he could just surgically cut off his shadow. The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 18 verse 6, on temptations to sin, says (red letter), “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned into the depths of the sea.” Agrippin says, “if you had a pair of millstones (he’s talking about male anatomy) hung around your neck and were pushed into the sea, you’d be a fool to fight the sink without first cutting yourself free.” So, Agrippin is saying, if part of you causes you to sin, it’s drowning you. Get rid of it. He wants to be a dog free from its cart, and he feels like he’s drowning now, so he must cut himself free. He’s about to leave the Siberian army, even if he has to do it alone. And he now understands his cultural inheritance as his shadow, after seeing the ritual.

In addition to telling us what happened to Lavender’s robe, we get some closure on their field guide, The Aliments of Life and Death. Agrippin gets this, and all the small belongings they left behind. He uses it to survive in the wild. It’s a great fit, but like so many great fits, I just got lucky. I didn’t know what I was going to do about their field guide, but I figured it was just going to be unfinished as more important things in the girls’ journey came up. But this worked better.

Phew. That was a lot. Thanks as always for reading!

message 20: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Wow! Thanks for ALL of the background. It's neat that you added information about Polaris's background that you had not intended. Also, it is interesting that he was not the first to perpetuate the myth of his origin in the sky.

Yes, I certainly saw the Jungian influence. :)

I like the symbolism of the shadow. I am curious how much of what appears to be symbolism in this book is intentional.

At the start, we think Siberians are so savage that they are cannibals only to have that debunked here. It is a very war-mongering society, but that is because you had to be or risk punishment by the leaders.

I won't read the other thread until I finish as I don't want any "spoilers."

message 21: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments You got the Jungian stuff? I'm impressed. I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't catch half this stuff if I didn't write it. In fact I don't know that I'll catch half of it in 20 years if I re-read it. So much of it is the result of research recent to the time when I was writing it.

I think a lot of the symbolism was intentional, but I guess I would think that. If there's more, I may not be aware of it.

There's so much serendipity that I can't take credit for, like the fact that the symbols in dreams also happen to be the symbols in mythology. It dovetails so nicely, but often accidentally on my part. I've wondered about that. Is it all accidental? I did weave some things together the hard way, but a lot fell into place. Since it was one author, it was one mindset for the duration of the writing. Therefore maybe some of the serendipity and dovetailing that I didn't intend was the result of me being me the whole time, having consistent interests, ideas, and topics I wanted to cover.

The Siberians are seen by Canadians as little more than evil. Once we meet a few, we find out that they're not pure evil. As we get to know them a little more (slavery, necromancy, warlike), we realize they're not so great either.

I've got the Chapter 18 behind the scenes up. That's probably longer than the chapter itself, but not nearly as long as this one.

message 22: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
You'll have to contact me in 20 years so I can remind you what you were thinking lol.

message 23: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments I think it'll be about that much time before I get around to writing a sequel, so I probably will need you to remind me what this book was about.

message 24: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
avoiding other thread to keep from spoilers. I wanted to finish tonight but due to eye strain will stop with deep regret. So close! I think a person could write a Master's Thesis about Ancient Canada or better yet use it for their doctorate!

message 25: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Thank you! A friend recently said he was going to buy the book and start reading it. I wanted to warn him that there's a good bit of philosophy, and when he asked me to describe what type of philosophy, I couldn't. There's a good bit of Franciscan-type environmental and justice issues, but most of the ideas are just sort of scavenged together. That would be good to flesh out the Thesis you mentioned.

I'm reading Acts of the Apostles, and I think Paul was in Greece when somebody called somebody else a 'seed picker,' or something to that effect. In the liner notes they said that was a common insult for philosophical scavengers who didn't belong to any one of the established schools in Greece, and tended to 'borrow' ideas from other philosophers. It was used as an insult, but I kinda liked the idea of scavenging around for philosophical ideas, some original, some borrowed from other people if necessary, and all gathered together with some organization. I think I'd like that better than reading 250 pages on nothing but nihilism.

Anyway, I haven't done the behind the scenes for Chapter 19, the final chapter. So don't worry about clicking on that thread right now. I won't put anything up until you say you're done. Chapter 18 behind the scenes is up, and if you haven't read it yet, I'd actually recommend staying away from it to avoid spoilers until you're done with 19. 18 is a lot of foreshadowing for the final chapter, so to read the explanations behind it might spoil something.

I'll try to start working on the behind the scenes for 19, but it may take a while, so take your time finishing. Sorry to hear about your eye strain. (Do you think I should have a disclaimer at the beginning of Ancient Canada that says 'Caution: May Cause Eye Strain'?). What does it feel like?

message 26: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Oh, I have a day job where I am on the computer so it was the culmination of that and other online activity that day. I really like the PDF file and should have ordered it much sooner!

I do like the idea of borrowing philosophies. Just like I would not want to be tied entirely to any major political parties platform (unless I wrote it), I would not want to have to adhere strictly to only one philosophy and ignore the good in the others.

It is good to hear that your friend bought the book and started reading. I love the philosophy and after I finish and recommend to my friends online that is one of the great selling points that I will mention. Of course, we met at the group about philosophy and psychology and other words that start with "P" so it is not a surprised. But for those not interested in philosophy, the plot is amazing too and the fantasy aspects. I love the originality.

message 27: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Thank you! When I first wrote it, I didn't know exactly how much some people are just allergic to philosophy. Some people like it, some hate it, so I like to warn people before they get into it. If they hate philosophy but expect it I think they're less upset. That's been one of the difficulties in promoting the book. But it's also been an asset for most people who have decided to get into it, so I'm happy about it.

Thanks for spreading the word!

message 28: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
Sending you some information about another good reads group called books, blogs, authors, and more.

message 29: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Thank you!

message 30: by Clinton (new)

Clinton Festa | 154 comments Also, I think Saturday's my day to get the behind-the-scenes done for Chapter 19. I should have it done by the end of that day. I can post it whenever after that. Just keep me updated. I don't know if we're coming to the end of our February 25th group read deadline, if it matters, or what, but Saturday will be the 23rd.

message 31: by Barbara (new)

Barbara (bkbsmiles) | 134 comments Mod
i'm so close so we'll see if i make it

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