Insurgent (Divergent, #2) Insurgent discussion


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Evelyn's other kid

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message 1: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily So I'm kind of wondering if this is going to come up in book three at all- whatever happened to the kid Evelyn was pregnant with when she allegedly died? Did the child actually die? Do you think he/she might be a character in the third book? When Evelyn spoke to Tobias in the Factionless safe house and said "Because I'm you're mother and you're my son" she kind of made it sound like he was the only family she had left, but she could have just been playing on his emotions.

It just seems like a big lose end not to confirm whether or not the child did actually die, since clearly Evelyn didn't. Thoughts??


Kristell I hadn't really thought about that, maybe it was a lie that she was pregnant, I don't really remember what it says on the book, I think I'm going to go back and see. Interesting...


Hayley Em Kristell wrote: "I hadn't really thought about that, maybe it was a lie that she was pregnant, I don't really remember what it says on the book, I think I'm going to go back and see. Interesting..."

i think i will do the same! I can't even remember that she was pregnant when she allegedly died! :O


Leah reick she was pregnent where was that!! i don't even remember that in the book interesting maybe i will go investigate that later that's something to think about


message 5: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily Yeah I completely forgot too until I was re-reading the first book! Anyway, it's right at the beginning when the Priors are having dinner after the testing. When they start talking about Tobias leaving Abnegation, they mention that Marcus lost his wife in childbirth. It can definitely have just been part of the lie, but at the same time, I think there's a chance that it wasn't. It would make sense that that would be when Evelyn's affair came out into the open if the child wasn't Marcus', and also, the other Abnegation would know whether or not Evelyn had really been pregnant.


Valerie Its been awhile and when I re-read this book maybe I'll catch that, but I'm pretty sure I took it as she "died" when Tobias was born. So he grew up with out a mother.


message 7: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily Hm, actually I went back to the book to check again, and the Priors basically say that Tobias was Marcus' only family after his wife died giving birth to their second child, so it was definitely a different kid entirely.


Jeni Well, it would certainly be awkward if it turned out to be Tris.


Valerie Jeni wrote: "Well, it would certainly be awkward if it turned out to be Tris."

hahaha Good point!!


Valerie I clearly need to do a re-read of this book! Can't wait for the third!


message 11: by Jeni (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jeni It would explain her divergency and the fact that her brother is NOTHING like her, not to mention the disconnect she felt with her family. Just a thought.


message 12: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily hahha well THAT would definitely be a plot twist :P


Sophie That's a good point - though I doubt it. After all, they did say factions tend to run in families, and Tris's mum was Dauntless. I actually never thought about that alleged child, though.


message 14: by Jeni (last edited Dec 21, 2012 06:12AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jeni I would totally write it that way, though.

Exploring this point: After all, they did say factions tend to run in families, and Tris's mum was Dauntless. Begs the question from me: What was Evelyn's original faction?

Evelyn's History from Divergent Wiki: (view spoiler)

Just a few little loopholes I've found to sustain the "Tris is Evelyn's mystery child" theory. :D FUN!


message 15: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily As far as I can remember Evelyn's original faction was never mentioned. She could possibly have been born into Abnegation. Is it confirmed she's divergent? I'm pretty positive that Marcus is, because I think that he said he was to someone in Candor, so that could be where Tobias gets it from- unless they both are.


message 16: by Jeni (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jeni Sorry! I was editing when you were answering!


message 17: by Emily (last edited Dec 21, 2012 02:17PM) (new) - added it

Emily Ahh, no, thanks, I totally forgot about that! Hm- well I don't think she could have left the child behind, since Tobias doesn't mention having any siblings and he's referred to as Marcus' only family- also, he remembers Evelyn from when he was a child (she gave him that sculpture) and the book mentions that she died giving birth to their second child.

As for the Tris thing, I just remembered- Tris doesn't look anything like Tobias' mother. Evelyn isn't white- she's described as "olive skinned with dark, curly brown hair" and in an interview Veronica Roth actually said that Tobias is biracial, so Evelyn very well might be Middle-eastern, based on that description, which doesn't match Tris' blonde hair, blue eyes, pale complexion. So unless Evelyn DID actually lose the child (which is very much a possibility) I think, maybe, he/she could turn up in the third book as a new character which would be really interesting!


Don't_Trot_and_Text I didn't know anything about Evelyn's second kid! That will defenitely be interesting to look for in the third book...


Ifrah Alia I really don't think that this child would turn out to be Tris because doesn't Evelynn now know who Tris is so she would recgnize her as her daughter. Also, wouldn't Marcus also know if Tris was the child if Evelynn left Tris with her father. Also, wouldn't all of Abnegation be suspicious since, if Tris is Evelynn's daughter, then the Prior's had a baby all of a sudden without Natalie being pregnant?


message 20: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily Ifrah wrote: "I really don't think that this child would turn out to be Tris because doesn't Evelynn now know who Tris is so she would recgnize her as her daughter. Also, wouldn't Marcus also know if Tris was th..."

Right, and my other reason for thinking that can't be true is that Evelyn is a different race than Tris is- Tobias is supposed to be biracial.


message 21: by Jeni (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jeni Okay, I just had a thought. I was taking a Divergent quiz and one of the questions was "Are Caleb and Tris twins?" I answered no, which was correct. But then I started thinking about that and they chose their factions at the same time, so they were both 16, right?

Am I remembering that correctly? If they aren't twins, but they are both 16, maybe Caleb is the other child?


Sierra Jeni wrote: "Okay, I just had a thought. I was taking a Divergent quiz and one of the questions was "Are Caleb and Tris twins?" I answered no, which was correct. But then I started thinking about that and the..."

That's interesting....I think all that was said about it was that they were like a few months apart or something...I'll have to go back and look.


message 23: by Jeni (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jeni When I get home, I'm going to look it up, as well. It's glossed over completely, but still there. Interesting!


message 24: by Emily (last edited Dec 29, 2012 02:16PM) (new) - added it

Emily I'm pretty sure that Caleb was described as being a little under or just a little over a year older than Tris, but had missed the cut off date for the grade above her, which made them the same year. Assuming the testing's done towards the end of a traditional school year, so like May-June, I think that means Caleb was born during the summer before Tris was born, which would mean he'd turn sixteen just a bit after most people born in his year did.

But who knows, it's still possible. I think he would still have to have some of Evelyn's coloring though, but I can't actually remember how he was described besides that he had dimples or something :P. I don't think Roth really made it clear enough that Tobias was biracial either, but she did mention that he was tan skinned with long eyelashes, which implies some middle-eastern features to match Evelyn's.


message 25: by Mica (last edited Dec 31, 2012 06:45PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Mica Remember that Andrew, Tris' father, was Erudite, and Natalie was Dauntless as well as Divergent. Tris was raised in Abnegation so there you have all three sources for Tris' aptitude results and Divergence as well as the reason for why Caleb's test gave him Erudite.


Cathy Gildea Can't be Tris or Caleb. Near the beginning of the second book Tris remembers attending her funeral.


Keith Mausisa Cathy wrote: "Can't be Tris or Caleb. Near the beginning of the second book Tris remembers attending her funeral."

All the time I was reading the above comments, my heart was really pounding hard and anxious that it might be true that Tris might be the 2nd child, since she's younger than Four and very diff. from her family.. But coz of this I finally was convinced it cannot really be TRIS nor CALEB. =)))


Patty I think it's Peter ....


Cathy Gildea It would have to be someone at least a couple of years younger than Tris.


Ifrah Alia Cathy wrote: "Can't be Tris or Caleb. Near the beginning of the second book Tris remembers attending her funeral."

Good point. So it's a much younger character. Maybe we haven't even been introduced to him/her yet. I wonder if this child is even going to a significant part of the next book?


Mia;emma she was pregnant..what? urm since when? that was not in the book at all.
if it is true i may suggest that this 'kid' is something to do with Edith Prior..or like someone from Tris' initiation class because if you think about it, they could be the same age as Tris..i hope its a character we already know..or knew.


Brittany Maybe she was pregnant with another children, but had an abortion b/c on page #100 in the book, Tobias said that Evelyn had an affair, so maybe she got pregnant by the other man and not Marcus.


message 33: by Laura (last edited Jan 06, 2013 09:08PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Laura I'M SO SORRY, WHAT! I don't think it ever said that Evelyn had a second child in the book. Maybe you're getting confused that just cause she had an affair you thought Roth said she was pregnant? Maybe I just misread it. Could someone please tell me when it said Evelyn was pregnant? Thanks.


Cathy Gildea Laura, near the beginning of the first book, when Tris's dad is reading an article slandering Marcus. It's mentioned how his wife died giving birth to their second child.


Brittany Laura wrote: "I'M SO SORRY, WHAT! I don't think it ever said that Evelyn had a second child in the book. Maybe you're getting confused that just cause she had an affair you thought Roth said she was pregnant? Ma..."

In an early part of the first book, Divergent, when Tris' dad complains about the Erudite at the dinner table, he starts talking about Marcus in conversation. He mentions that Marcus had a son who transferred to Dauntless a few years ago and then tell us about his(Marcus') wife and how she died while giving birth to their second child.


message 36: by Laura (last edited Jan 06, 2013 10:05PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Laura Brittany wrote: "Laura wrote: "I'M SO SORRY, WHAT! I don't think it ever said that Evelyn had a second child in the book. Maybe you're getting confused that just cause she had an affair you thought Roth said she wa..."

Cathy wrote: "Laura, near the beginning of the first book, when Tris's dad is reading an article slandering Marcus. It's mentioned how his wife died giving birth to their second child."

Thanks guys for clearing that up. I just forgot what she died of. Sorry if I was kinda harsh. Thanks for being so understanding.


Kezia If Tris were actually Evelyn's other child, then it would be a huge twist and ruin the whole romance thing that had been built since the first book ._.
So it couldn't be Tris


message 38: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily Yeah, I missed it too until I was re-reading Divergent. It's at the very beginning when the Priors are talking about Marcus. They mention that he had a son who transferred to Dauntless, and Tris' dad points out that he was his only family after his wife died giving birth to their second child.


message 39: by Tessa (last edited Jan 08, 2013 05:22AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tessa It's clear that it can't be Tris or Caleb because
1) Four said that his mom was a part of his life when he was a kid so she wasn't pregnant till he was a little older
2) Tris and Caleb attended the funeral
Therefore, I'm guessing then that the second child must only be like approx. 10 years old or so (give or take a few years)

Plus, that would be a stupid and annoying twist that would just tick off a million readers (including me!!!) and hasn't a similar thing already been done in The City of Bones... it would be too derivative.


message 40: by Line (new) - rated it 4 stars

Line Even if it isn't a lie, that Tobias' mom (can't remember her name) were pregnant, no one says, that that baby survived...

Outside a hospital, few kids survive, if the mother dies giving birth to that child...

Since the story is, the mom 'died', i'm guessing she didn't go to the hospital to have the baby (if there ever was one)...

Personally, i'm guessing there were a baby, and that the child either died, or were given to it's father (Not Marcus)...

Or maybe, and i don't quit believe it, grew up with her/his mom (Tobias' mom) with the factionless...
But then, why wouldn't she tell Tobias, that he have a living sister or brother...?


message 41: by Brittany (last edited Jan 08, 2013 06:14PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Brittany Jeni wrote: "Okay, I just had a thought. I was taking a Divergent quiz and one of the questions was "Are Caleb and Tris twins?" I answered no, which was correct. But then I started thinking about that and the..."

That could be true, but at the same time he probably couldn't be. Tris really didn't give us a description on how her father looked like, so their dad come have looked just like Natalie and Tris or have the same features as Caleb. With the choose ceremony I think they could be twins, because like you and the book said, Caleb and Tris chose their factions at the same time. So there's a 50/50 chance Caleb could be Tobias' little brother and the mystery child.

Sorry if I was sounding too harsh or like a know-it-all.


message 42: by Emily (new) - added it

Emily Well, I think it can't be Caleb, because Tris mentions in Insurgent that she remembered attending Evelyn's funeral, and that would make her notably older than Caleb if he was the kid. Caleb must have been at the funeral with Tris and their parents.

I think he/she will probably be a new character. Unless, of course, she really did just lose the child.


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

The only characters I can think of who would be in the right age range are:
●Kee. The little girl who Tris saved when Jeanine made the dauntless jump off the roof
●Hector. Lynn's little brother

Yeah that's two. That's all i can think of. So it will probably be a new person


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh yeah, when the Dauntless traitors attacked Candor. And she was Divergent, like Tobias and Evelyn (is Evelyn Divergent?) And how old was that boy that Eric killed?

That's three, maybe four.


Brittany Athena wrote: "Oh yeah, when the Dauntless traitors attacked Candor. And she was Divergent, like Tobias and Evelyn (is Evelyn Divergent?) And how old was that boy that Eric killed?

That's three, maybe four."


Athena wrote: "Oh yeah, when the Dauntless traitors attacked Candor. And she was Divergent, like Tobias and Evelyn (is Evelyn Divergent?) And how old was that boy that Eric killed?

That's three, maybe four."


In the book, Tris said that the boy was around 10 or 11 years old.


Samantha It's Peter it's mentioned that he looks nothing like his parents (page 177 Divergent) tall man with bushy eyebrows and a meek woman with red hair. Peter has dark shiny hair, dark green eyes, long nose with a narrow bridge Evelyn has a similar nose


message 47: by Line (new) - rated it 4 stars

Line Samantha wrote: "It's Peter it's mentioned that he looks nothing like his parents (page 177 Divergent) tall man with bushy eyebrows and a meek woman with red hair. Peter has dark shiny hair, dark green eyes, long n..."

Interesting theory...


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

That would work except that I think he's too old because he's sixteen in book 1 and Tobias is eighteen. Tobias is two years older than peter. We clarified earlier that Tris remembers attending Evelyn's "funeral" so she would have to be at least four I think.At least. If Evelyn "died" of childbirth that would make her child 0 around her funeral. That would mean Tris is four years at least older than Evelyn's child, which you're saying is Peter, which would make him twelve, which he definitely isn't. So I like your theory, I really do, but age-wise it doesn't work out


Sofia Wow. I had completely forgotten that Evelyn being pregnant was the pretense of her death. Everyone has some cool ideas but I definitely don't think it was Caleb, Tris, or Peter.
Has anyone thought that maybe there wasn't even a child in the first place. Maybe it was just a lie that Marcus came up with to explain her disappearance. It would be a believable lie since it fits with Evelyn having an affair. I'm just saying that having an affair doesn't have to necessarily result in a pregnancy.
Just thoughts.


message 50: by Ruby (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ruby Ashley wrote: "What about the unnamed girl who got away?"

Wasn't she from Candor?


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