Breaking Dawn (The Twilight Saga, #4) Breaking Dawn discussion


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Pedophilia in the Twilight Saga

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Apparently Jacob is sexually attracted to a 6-month-old baby and Edward (an old man in a young body) is into teenage girls.

And this is acceptable to readers how.......?


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

People are so immature. Grow up. Jesus Christ, Meyer explained quite a few times in the book about imprints and all that. Obviously you need a reality check. Its just a book. Not a very good book, at that.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Eva wrote: "People are so immature. Grow up. Jesus Christ, Meyer explained quite a few times in the book about imprints and all that. Obviously you need a reality check. Its just a book. Not a very good book, ..."

Having romantic relationships with children is bad, no matter how you try to justify it.


Nuran SM tried to justify it, but doesn't mean her reasoning works. It still felt wrong. Jacob is taken the role of a brother while she is still too young but then will change to sexual partner role when she is of age. Even if Jacob isn't a pedophile, it still feels a bit incestuous.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

ForeverAquarius wrote: "I never thought of it that way but hell, youre kinda right :O"

I dub the Paranormal romance genre, the Pedo-Necrophilia genre!
Makes sense in regards to twilight, consider Bella has sex with a [un]dead guy and Jacob is into kiddies apparently.


message 6: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 10, 2013 01:46PM) (new)

Nuran wrote: "SM tried to justify it, but doesn't mean her reasoning works. It still felt wrong. Jacob is taken the role of a brother while she is still too young but then will change to sexual partner role when..."

I always thought that "waiting til she's old enough" mentality was a bit creeper-y. That's what they do in India/Pakistan...basically, claiming a little girl and then waiting until she's an adult just to sleep with her.


Nuran Catherine the Ninja Squirrel wrote: "Nuran wrote: "SM tried to justify it, but doesn't mean her reasoning works. It still felt wrong. Jacob is taken the role of a brother while she is still too young but then will change to sexual par..."

Yeah, it's like being adopted and then finding out the person you thought was your father wants to have sex with you, and in renesemee case wanting to have sex back. It's almost like grooming. SM reasoning doesn't make it any less creepy.


message 8: by Cassie (last edited Dec 16, 2012 03:00PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cassie Nobody had any romantic relationships with any children. Nobody had any sex with any children.

To see it as pedophilia is a bit of a reach, since to pedophiliac actions took place whatsoever.

But either way, who does it even matter?
There are PLENTY of books out there with controversial themes and subthemes.
There's a book called "Lolita". Maybe you should go burn it because there's pedophilia in it.
There's also a good book called "Little Children", go burn that too.

And look! Here's a whole list of books you can rant and rave about!
http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/p...

More people need to firmly grasp the concept that "literature" is different from "newspaper".
It's just a book, it didn't happen. No adults or children were harmed. No crimes have been committed.


message 9: by Nuran (last edited Dec 16, 2012 03:21PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Nuran But in Lolita, the perpetrator got his punishment, while still a dark subject to read, it doesn't endorse pedophilia by the end of it. We see the character as dark and twisted.

And also, just because it didn't happen, doesn't mean it's not dark or creepy. Do you go to people who love the characters and story and say "it didn't happen, it's only a story, you can't love something that's not real", I doubt that very much.

Love or hate are both valid opinions.


message 10: by Cassie (last edited Dec 16, 2012 03:22PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cassie Alright then... Lolita isn't the only book with actual pedophilia.
My favorite Author is VC Andrews. She writes books about old uncles and grandfathers having sex with 12-17 year old girls (which is a lot more similar to pedophilia than emotionally connecting with a child, don't you think?). Those men hardly ever go to jail or receive much punishment besides getting old and dying.
Go read those books, then complain that they exist.


Nuran I'm going to turnaround your phrase.

Why you so upset for, and defensive about this book. It's not real you know. It's only a fantasy. They won't care if you fight their corner, because they're not real.


message 12: by Cassie (last edited Dec 16, 2012 03:32PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cassie Exactly. It doesn't matter either way.
You're not making me feel bad by telling me that Twilight is not real.

The difference seems to be that people are genuinely angry that unreal things did or did not happen in an unreal book. It makes me feel sympathy for them, but not the type of sympathy that constitutes compassion. It's the type of sympathy that makes me want to tell people to suck it up and get over it because it did not actually happen.


Cassie Back to responding to the OP.
Bella was completely legal. A large age difference is not pedophilia when both parties are post pubescent. And it's not illegal when both parties are legal.


Nuran Cassie wrote: "Exactly. It doesn't matter either way.
You're not making me feel bad by telling me that Twilight is not real.

The difference seems to be that people are genuinely angry that unreal things did or d..."


I seriously doubt that these many "genuine" "angry" people are losing sleep over the creepiness. You are completely reading way too much into it. It's creepy and what i see are people just expressing that opinion, while you are over analysing it. Yes I know it's not real, I don't want to reach out into the book and protect Nessie, because she's not real. And though Jacob is creepy by the last book, I'm not on a mission to burn his body.

It's the Internet I suppose, it's so hard to get the tone right sometimes. A off-handed comment can be taken so seriously.

Also, I don't tend to judge a book if haven't read. For all I know, those books could be showing the dark turmoil and reality of abuse and not romantiscing it. So I'm not going to judge them until after I read them.

There is a difference idealising bad behaviour and telling a story of horror and abuse.


Laura Imprinting doesn't mean sexual love. It means they care for the girl. That can be brotherly, friendly, even fatherly. And technically Edward isn't an old man in a teenagers body. He is just frozen in that body and has lived on earth for a long time due to this. But I get where you're coming from regarding that.


Kirby this is nearly completely off topic, but that list of books involving pedophilia reminded me of a book that I read years ago, but I can't find it or think of the name.

it was about a woman who was friends with her neighbor, until it turned out that the neighbor and her husband had been sexually abusing and exploiting their young son. the main character takes in the son when the parents go to jail...

can anyone help with this, please? sound familiar at all?


message 17: by Kati (last edited Dec 16, 2012 07:44PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Kati My two cents - The fictional "pedophilia" is concerning because it's a young adult novel and many children read these books. I'm more concerned that they idealize relationships and the young readers don't recognize how wrong it is. Seriously a 100+ year old man stalks a teenager. Whether she is legally of age is not the problem. It's that she is completely fine and flattered by this "sexy" stranger being an ass, then nice, then finding out he's been creeping into her bedroom from the very first day he met her, and follows her around town. I don't care if it was to "protect" her, its creepy. However it's portrayed as romantic. What kind of example is that? Boys might think its okay to be a stalker, overly protective and insanely jealous; while girls might think a man who stalks you is really doing it because he care about them and that makes it okay, as well as older men who look young are acceptable dates.


Cassie I just gave confidence that most people realize that Twilight is only a book. I know I was never that stupid. I never decided what friends I wanted to have, or who I wanted in my life, or how I treat others or want to be treated just because of a book I read or a movie I watched. I don't think I know anyone who actually did (aside from wanting to be friends with someone with common interests)

I think all these people who claim twilight is negatively influencing young society are drastically underestimating everyone's intelligence and ability to make their own decisions. Really, how many people here will admit that they allow such basic things like books make life decisions for them?


message 19: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 16, 2012 09:56PM) (new)

Cassie wrote: "I just gave confidence that most people realize that Twilight is only a book. I know I was never that stupid. I never decided what friends I wanted to have, or who I wanted in my life, or how I tre..."

Actually people are quite influenced by the media -- books and movies influence people much more than one would think.

However, Twilight is not one of those "influential" books. The only influence it had was starting a stupid vampire craze among mindlessly fangirly teens.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Ida wrote: "Calm down people, there's no need to get worked up here.

Meyer clearly explained that imprinting does not have to be a romantic relationship so CLEARLY it's not like that between Jacob and Remes....."


Still gross since they're still prepping up a little kiddo for mating purposes.

And I agree, from an evolutionary standpoint, it's rather stupid. What happens if the imprinted mate dies or rejects them? Then they're screwed and won't pass on genes out of refusal to mate. The most successful organisms in the world are either asexual (allowing FAST reproduction without worrying about finding a mate) and those that reproduce like crazy whenever they can (humans, flies, dolphins, et cetera). Something that refuses to mate with anything but ONE particular organism is destined for extinction.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

I know ppl have already said it but it's true Meyer explained it. His feelings were not sexual. No harm no foul.
But I will say I always found the whole thing weird.
But who cares about Twilight when I just heard that the CW is making a reality tv show based on (drum roll plz) ....THE HUNGER GAMES. This shit is happening guys. Panem here we come.


Kristen Tarzwell lolololol people read WAY to far into things :)


Cassie I know the media can be influential, but it does not control minds. People are not going to suddenly go off and look for Babis to fall in love with because of twilight


Cassie I don't know where you got the idea that the shifters can only reproduce with one particular organism. That's an assumption based on absolutely nothing. If the imprintee decides that she wants him to have relations with someone else, he's pretty much got to do it. Besides, only reproducing with one person in your lifetime is not unusual.


Libbie Imprinting is not a sexual thing, and it never has been. It wasn't for Quil with Claire, it isn't for Jake and Ness. Period.

If this was more than Twilight baiting and you're seriously concerned about pedophilia in popular novels - you may want to look into a book called Iced by Karen Marie Moning. That would make your case a little better than something repeated in canon, as well as by the author.


anoushka jacob a hairy pedophile, bella a mentally challenged girl and edward the daytime disco ball..perfect family!


Sierra Franklin Cassie wrote: "Nobody had any romantic relationships with any children. Nobody had any sex with any children.

To see it as pedophilia is a bit of a reach, since to pedophiliac actions took place whatsoever.

But..."


Dont forget Game of Thrones, the 12/13 year old Deanerys who gets repeated raped by Drago a man in his mid 30's but then before she gets pregnant at age 13/14 she 'realizes' that that she loves it and love him too.

The author tried to justify it but it was a case of Stockholm syndrome in my eyes. As for nessie and jacob, it's a case of grooming. It would've LESS creepy if wolves didn't imprint until the girl reached puberty. Which could've been anywhere from age 9-16. And Jacob is still around the age of 15 because he doesn't age.


Cassie None of that implies that it's impossible to have sex with any other person. It simply implies that they stop actively looking for other partners.


Cassie Jacob didn't stop aging at 16, he rapidly aged to 25 or so in a short span of time, then froze.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

Mel wrote: "You guys do know it's just a book right? Not that I mind, I'm quite entertained reading all this haha."

What??It's just a book?I thought it was based on a true story and the government was just covering it up. That's why we must keep these discussions alive, least we forget and once again be under the control of "THE MAN".


message 31: by Ines (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ines Norton Mel wrote: "You guys do know it's just a book right? Not that I mind, I'm quite entertained reading all this haha."

Way to go Mel just loved your anwser....


Kati Ida - That would be a great book


BubblesTheMonkey It's not just Twilight that has old men falling for young girls. Besides, Edward, a Stephanie Meyer vamp, retains perfectly good mental health (besides a thirst for blood). At a certain age, people literally start to lose their minds. If it was actually a hundred year old man falling for a teenager, that would be pretty gross.


Lindsey Jake doesn't think of Renesme in a romantical way. Stephanie Meyer explained multiple times in her books that when the wolves imprint on someone they only want what's best for them. Jacob would be anything that Nessie needs him to be..a babysitter, a protector, a brother, a friend, and maybe eventually a boyfriend. But that is not the way he feels now. As for Edward...the poor guy is stuck in a 17 year old's body. No one thinks Carlise is weird because he is like 600 years old. You just have to judge them as the age that they were when they were turned.


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

Apeksha wrote: "jacob a hairy pedophile, bella a mentally challenged girl and edward the daytime disco ball..perfect family!"
Hilarious.


Nuran Lindsey wrote: "Jake doesn't think of Renesme in a romantical way. Stephanie Meyer explained multiple times in her books that when the wolves imprint on someone they only want what's best for them. Jacob would be ..."

Carlisle didn't go for someone who would barely be considered an adult. As much as SM tried to paint Bella as an old soul, she is a regular, average teenager.


Carina Lindsey wrote: "Jacob would be anything that Nessie needs him to be..a babysitter, a protector, a brother, a friend, and maybe eventually a boyfriend."

That is the thing I dislike about the imprinting concept (and it is not just in Twilight I have said in other threads I also dislike it in Feehans books.

Jacob will start by being her protector and brother figure - meh fine, I have no issues with that. It is when you add in "maybe eventually a boyfriend" - to me, and I think to other posters, it is not a pleasant idea to imagine someone who cares for a child, helped change thier nappies etc to have the 'possibility' of having a romantic relationship. I know a lot of fans say that there is choice involved etc - but just the possibility is ... disturbing.


Wren Guys, calm down, it's just a book. Read stolen by Lucy Christopher and see real sick guy go after young girl. It's JUST A BOOK!!!!


Cassie Sam still had some love for Leah after he imprinted, Jacob said that somewhere. It just wasn't strong enough to interfere with the imprinting. But with way, that still doesn't prove that it's impossible to reproduce with someone else.

But I would like to know if there are any vampire/human romance stories where the vampire is NOT forever years older than the human. Are those pedophiles too, or just Edward. Is Carlisle a pedophile because Esme was only 16 when they first met? Those guys from Vampire Diaries... I'm pretty sure they're really old and their little lady was in high school. Or is it just Edward because "grrrr I hate Edward!!!"


Nuran Esme wasn't 16, she was 26. Carlisle saved her because she was dying but fell in love with her sometime later once she confronted the loss of her child. That is why Carlisle has never got slack, he fell in love with a woman, not someone still on the line of childhood and adulthood.


S.L.J. If a vamp is 300 years old (as long as he doesn't look like the Crypt Keeper) and not getting any older and the human is a consenting adult of legal age, I don't really think it's that big of an issue. I mean it's not like they are ever going to be able to close the age gap. :P

I had a friend that was 19 and started dating a 38 year old. I was a worried. But she said she was happy and he was a pretty sound guy so I just let it go. She was old enough to make her own decisions.

The whole baby grooming thing i.e. Jacob/Lock Ness...that is really not okay.


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

Catherine the Ninja Squirrel wrote: "Nuran wrote: "SM tried to justify it, but doesn't mean her reasoning works. It still felt wrong. Jacob is taken the role of a brother while she is still too young but then will change to sexual par..."

excuse me! there is no need to bring a race into your stupid argument. You know nothing about India or Pakistan. Get you freakin facts straight. Stop making stupid assumptions no one does that anymore btw they used to that in the middle ages too. God the ignorance of some people. Seriously can you please think before you post because that can seriously offend people. True I am not Indian or Pakistanian but at least I have enough respect for both races not to make stupid assumptions to win a debate


message 43: by Nuran (last edited Dec 17, 2012 06:06PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Nuran Anita wrote: "Catherine the Ninja Squirrel wrote: "Nuran wrote: "SM tried to justify it, but doesn't mean her reasoning works. It still felt wrong. Jacob is taken the role of a brother while she is still too you..."

You are the one who is ignorant, it is still a practised culture in India. For the very poor, who barter their own children into slavery and arranged marriage. You shutting your eyes to the truth does nothing to help those children. There are charities out there trying to help these children who will laugh at your face.

Here's links for you, do some research and open your eyes to the horror that is still happening.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/p...

http://www.palermoprotocol.com/index....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/art...

And these crimes are happening because they're a third world country, so lots of desperate uneducated people with corrupt politicians and police, nothing to do with their race. It's not being racist if you are stating facts of things still happen in a country.


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes but are you actually there have you actually seen this occur??? This is just media and how they like to show races in the middle east. You can barely trust the media nowadays. You have no idea if this is actually happening.. sure you have links but how do you know if they are valid or that they aren't lies to get more attention. Media is always portraying a race really badly for example they say that muslims are terrorists does this mean that all muslims are terrorists just because this happened to one or two people the media portrays it as if a whole race or religion is like this. God look through all sides of the story


Nuran Anita wrote: "Yes but are you actually there have you actually seen this occur??? This is just media and how they like to show races in the middle east. You can barely trust the media nowadays. You have no idea ..."

You sound like you've been brainwashed into thinking the world is a magical place and there is no such thing as evil. Brainwashed into thinking nothing is happening so you don't do anything about it. You just sit in your bubble and let others try to help.

And I know perfectly well that practise doesn't have anything to do with their race, but more to do with their circumstances. Corrupt police/government, lack of education, poor wages if any. Doesn't help that first world countries turn to them for cheap labour, so they can't make a decent living because they never get the money they deserve.


message 46: by [deleted user] (new)

Omigod all I did was explain not to bring race into the arguments as you have mentioned above "And I know perfectly well that practise doesn't have anything to do with their race, but more to do with their circumstances. " you words!! That what I meant exactly I just get upset when people tend to bring race into an argument just to make a point when they only know what the media has been saying.


Nuran Anita wrote: "Omigod all I did was explain not to bring race into the arguments as you have mentioned above "And I know perfectly well that practise doesn't have anything to do with their race, but more to do wi..."

But how on earth is saying it still happens in India and Pakistan racist, it was the whole reason you went on this crusade. Saying it happens in these countires doesn't make it racist. And then you speak as of it doesn't happen anymore.

Being mixed race myself, so I have quite an open view of the world, find nothing racist in mentioning a country if the facts are correct. I hear facts about the two countries I from, both have unpleasant facts, doesn't make those facts racsist.


Nuran If you don't trust western media, how about maybe a source from the India government themselves - http://india.gov.in/newsletter/june-2009 are they being racist to themselves? They know about the problem, they're just not doing enough to stop it.


Cassie No... Esme fell out of a tree and broke her leg when she was 16 and Carlisle treated her. He treated her once again when she was 26 and jumped off a cliff. He recognized her immediately and Esme never forgot him. She thought of him as the man of her dreams for 10 years before she changed


Nuran Cassie wrote: "No... Esme fell out of a tree and broke her leg when she was 16 and Carlisle treated her. He treated her once again when she was 26 and jumped off a cliff. He recognized her immediately and Esme ne..."

Well then at least Carlisle had the sense to stay away until she matured mentally and physically.


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