Twilight (Twilight, #1) Twilight discussion


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Is Bella noble, or pathetic?

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Erin Whenever I read the first and fourth Twilight books, I'm not spending my time going "Bella sucks" because, in these books, while she can be periodically annoying, she shows some tenacity. Unfortunately, in the second and third books...I really don't appreciate how pathetic and morose she seems. She's still going after Edward in the second book, and she likes two boys in the third. Now, I'm not saying it's a crime to like two boys; but making out with one while you also have a boyfriend is unacceptable, especially as a bribing technique. You might say that it was noble, to save his life, but it was dishonourable on Jacob's part. So, what are your thoughts? Is Bella really noble, or is she merely a pathetic little human?


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

Delusionally noble-aka pathetic


Deliriate Really? Does this question need to be asked again? New Moon has enough proof for you to figure this out all on your own.


Cheyenne Pathetic. Next question.


Samantha The Escapist Some people might argue that to be noble IS pathetic, depending on what brand of sociopath you are.

But anyway I think she's both, even for the reason you raised I think it's actually still a combination.

People are allowed to make stupid mistakes and the point is she did it for a noble reason. I hate the character and rather the series as well but in a well written story with a fleshed out character I could definitely have accepted that scenario told with grace.

I like my characters to be flawed.


message 6: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia Samantha wrote: "Some people might argue that to be noble IS pathetic, depending on what brand of sociopath you are.

But anyway I think she's both, even for the reason you raised I think it's actually still a comb..."


in some ways she was bit patheic, but later on i guess she was bit on heroic side.


Hailey Noble


Hailey Noble


Cassie I hate this question when people use New Moon as the crux of their argument. I unalterably refuse to call ANYONE (real or fictional) pathetic based on their emotional reactions to anything.
I find that it is never okay to discredit anyone's emotions or feelings.

As for everything else, I would say a combination of the two. (except I wouldn't use the word "pathetic", I'd use "distressing".)
She does noble things. Things most people would be too fearful to do, but at the same time, she doesn't plan them out well. She relies on others' sense of reason too much.


message 10: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia Cassie wrote: "I hate this question when people use New Moon as the crux of their argument. I unalterably refuse to call ANYONE (real or fictional) pathetic based on their emotional reactions to anything.
I find ..."


yea come to think about it, she was bit on distressing side,here and there and she had to relis on some ppl to help her out.


message 11: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia but she was bit on the heroic side, from time to time.


Shofna Begum she was pathetic at first but as the series continued her character became more noble


message 13: by Erin (new) - rated it 3 stars

Erin I have to agree that she can be heroic, though she sometimes gets on my nerves; probably because I never really liked Edward. But, as they say, love is blind. She shows remarkable commitment to Edward where other lovers would have given up on him or tried to fry him in sunlight (to no avail). She also tries to think of others before herself, which is very caring.


message 14: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia Tenma wrote: "I have to agree that she can be heroic, though she sometimes gets on my nerves; probably because I never really liked Edward. But, as they say, love is blind. She shows remarkable commitment to Edw..."

yea that might be it in some ways 2.


message 15: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia she was bit slow in her human years, but as she was trasform into vamp, she did have bit more power, & was bit heroic.


Veronica Bella=pathetic


message 17: by Monkique (last edited Oct 30, 2012 09:42AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Monkique I hate Bella so much! I find her really pathetic. I couldn't even keep reading the saga I stopped when I finished Eclipse because I couldn't stand her anymore.


message 18: by Angie Elle (new) - added it

Angie Elle Cassie wrote: "I hate this question when people use New Moon as the crux of their argument. I unalterably refuse to call ANYONE (real or fictional) pathetic based on their emotional reactions to anything.
I find ..."


I agree. I think her intentions were noble, but her execution could have used some work.


Clare I read the twilight books and the whole time I was reading them I kept getting annoyed with Bella. But I don't think shes pathetic, I just think that her desperate love for Edward makes her really stupid when she makes decisions.


Celeste Pathetic, definitely pathetic. She spends her life( and not only New moon) thinking of Edward. Stephenie Meyer tried to show the boundary-less kind of love but she just created the most pathetic character ever. How could she not have second-thoughts about pretending she was dead to her family just because of Edward??? I just find her extremely pathetic


message 21: by Monkique (last edited Oct 30, 2012 10:15AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Monkique Celeste wrote: "Pathetic, definitely pathetic. She spends her life( and not only New moon) thinking of Edward. Stephenie Meyer tried to show the boundary-less kind of love but she just created the most pathetic ch..."
OH Yes yes yes! I can not believe that in the 21st century S.Meyer created one of the worst female characters.


Cinthya Mori Pathetic. I´ve never seen a person like her (and I hope not to). It´s just the way she acts without thinking the consequences. I´m not a fan of Twilight but I have read all the books and I must admit that she is not a character that reflects a good way of behaving and respect for herself.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Pathetic!


message 24: by Mona (new) - rated it 2 stars

Mona What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??


Cinthya Mori Mona wrote: "What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??"

Nothing!!! :D


Celeste Vampire Academy

This is an example of a girl who undergoes a romantic loss but she behaves so strongly. Really Bella is just a weak character


message 27: by Angie Elle (new) - added it

Angie Elle Celeste wrote: "Vampire Academy

This is an example of a girl who undergoes a romantic loss but she behaves so strongly. Really Bella is just a weak character"


I have to say...it really is to each their own. I enjoyed Twilight, and I enjoyed VA, but I found Rose to be quite shallow throughout the series. I didn't think she was very likable or a good role model at all.


message 28: by Cassie (last edited Oct 30, 2012 10:54AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Cassie Mona wrote: "What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??"

Oh lots of things:

Ran away to Italy.
Willingness to die in childbirth
She ran off to meed James.
Her willingness to be a live distraction in a Newborn vampire battle.
Decoded secret messages to arrange for her daughter to run away when she dies.

Nothing so blatantly obvious like "she saved the world", but those stories are overdone anyways.


Cinthya Mori Cassie wrote: "Mona wrote: "What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??"

Oh lots of things:

Ran away to Italy.
Willingness to die in childbirth
She ran off to meed James.
Her willingness to be a li..."


Come on! Do you consider that doing crazy is heroic??


Deliriate Mona wrote: "What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??"

Right? I couldn't think of a single thing she's done to redeem herself. Not to mention, that everything she's done has been for a selfish reason that involves Edward.


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

I think she has her moments. There are times when she noble, nd then there are times whe she's just so stupid.


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

Like when she tried to "help" Edward? lolz


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

Baylor wrote: "Like when she tried to "help" Edward? lolz"

It's hard to help someone when your the one who needs all the help.


message 34: by Deliriate (last edited Oct 30, 2012 07:27PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Deliriate Abby wrote: "Baylor wrote: "Like when she tried to "help" Edward? lolz"

It's hard to help someone when your the one who needs all the help."


Weakest character ever ftw


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

Dorima wrote: "Abby wrote: "Baylor wrote: "Like when she tried to "help" Edward? lolz"

It's hard to help someone when your the one who needs all the help."

Weakest character ever ftw"


Yeah her character really didn't grow or become anything till Breaking Dawn.


Diane Dorima wrote: "Mona wrote: "What she has ever done to be even thought of as heroic??"

Right? I couldn't think of a single thing she's done to redeem herself. Not to mention, that everything she's done has been f..."

Selfish means for self. For other people, even if it's just one person doesn't make it selfish.


Diane Cinthya wrote: "Come on! Do you consider that doing crazy is heroic?? ."
Not all crazy deeds, no.
But what Cassie wrote, yes.
A hero shows bravery and self-sacrifice in the face of danger and adversity, and to me, that's what Bella did.


message 38: by Amy (new) - rated it 4 stars

Amy I'm really glad you guys are talking about a fictional character. I would never deem any human's life as pathetic. No wonder teens are getting bullied into suicide if people are so easy to call someone's life "pathetic." So Bella was a weak character and a poor role model, but to say her life is "pathetic"? What if there were a girl out there who is very similar to Bella (obviously without the vampires and werewolves) - would you call her pathetic to her face? Maybe I am just extremely sensitive to anyone calling someone "pathetic," which equates to "worthless."


Cassie Cinthya wrote: "Come on! Do you consider that doing crazy is heroic?? "

Yup.


message 40: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia Cassie wrote: "Cinthya wrote: "Come on! Do you consider that doing crazy is heroic?? "

Yup."


maybe in some ways yea.


message 41: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia cause later on when she turn,she became quite heroic.


message 42: by Erin (new) - rated it 3 stars

Erin People do crazy things when they're in love, I suppose. So, in the name of love, her actions may be deemed noble. To save the one you love, or to die trying-isn't that truly noble? Even if it's not possible, to even consider dying to save someone else seems pretty noble.

I still hate her, though.


message 43: by Olivia (new) - added it

Olivia Tenma wrote: "People do crazy things when they're in love, I suppose. So, in the name of love, her actions may be deemed noble. To save the one you love, or to die trying-isn't that truly noble? Even if it's not..."

yea maybe so.


message 44: by Ida (last edited Oct 31, 2012 12:48PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Ida Bella and noble does not go together. I believe the only reason some people call her that is because she keeps referring to herself as noble in the books. If a character has to tell the reader "oh I'm so great" and won't let their actions speak for themselves, well, them I'm often inclined to think the opposite of them. Bella does some good stuff, but far to often for stupid reasons. Like when she went to save her mother from James. That was a good thing, BUT it was quite an obvious trick, and even if Renne had been there why would James let her go when he could have two tasty humans in stead of one? If he's evil, he's evil, and Bella who's suppose to be smart, should have known he'd not give a damn about Bella's self-proclaimed nobility and she'd just get both Renne and herself eaten. If Bella really was smart and selfless, she'd make a plan and get the Cullens to help her.

She spends far to much time bragging to the audience about all her great qualities, like being responsible, good, smart, noble, yet she does very little to actually show those qualities. She's a lot like Gilderoy Lockheart that way.


Ginny Mahal pathetic


message 46: by Angie Elle (last edited Oct 31, 2012 10:54AM) (new) - added it

Angie Elle Ida wrote: "Bella and noble does not go together. I believe the only reason some people call her that is because she keeps referring to herself as noble in the books. If a character has to tell the reader "oh ..."

I'm thinking that if my mother's life was in danger, I wouldn't be thinking too clearly. I think people forget that she is a seventeen year old girl

Just because she didn't have a plan doesn't take away from the fact that she was trying to save her mother.


message 47: by Ida (last edited Oct 31, 2012 11:55AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Ida Angie wrote: "Ida wrote: "Bella and noble does not go together. I believe the only reason some people call her that is because she keeps referring to herself as noble in the books. If a character has to tell the..."

Yes, Bella's thoughts and actions really shows us she's an immature teenager, but if you compare this to how every character including Bella herself is talking about her as if she's an old soul and really smart, you end up with a big contradiction. On one hand you have a teenager who act like a teenager, on the other you have the books constantly telling you said teenager is wise beyond her years. You can't have your cake and eat it to, it just doesn't work like that.

Yes, I already acknowledged that Bella was trying to save her mother and that's great, but so would any other kid who's parent is in danger and Bella is talking about her rescue attempt as if it somehow makes her so much more exceptional. She might not be thinking clearly, but she does do a great deal of painting herself as noble between the phone-call with James and being rescued herself. I'd attribute her rather pathetic attempt at being heroic to Meyer's inability to write a coherent plot. There are a lot of other characters in books and other medias who were in similar situations to Bella here, walking to their deaths so they can save someone they care about. Frodo and Sam, Harry, Katniss, Buffy just to mention a few, and you never get the sort of monologue going on inside their head that they are oh so noble, but Bella does and she has a lot more options in her situation than all those other characters had and more time to think about what to do, and yet she chooses to run straight into an obvious trap.

Then again, Bella's apparent huge ego concerning her self-proclaimed selflessness in these "life or death" situations is just another part of Meyer not being able to write. Show don't tell! I get that Bella is meant to be good and wise, but when her thoughts and actions show me something entirely different, then she and the characters surrounding her comes across as sort of ignorant dolts when they talk about her superiority.


Tracy Yeah, I go back in forth too sometimes, so I don't really know!


message 49: by Seyi (new) - rated it 4 stars

Seyi David She's downright pathetic, it's too obvious!


message 50: by Ari (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ari Rodrigues Veronica wrote: "Bella=pathetic"

totally agree


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