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What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815-1848
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AMERICAN HISTORY > 20. WHAT GOD HATH WROUGHT- THE REVOLUTION OF 1848 AND FINALE: A VISION OF THE FUTURE - CHAPTER 20 (792 - 855) ~ March 11th - March 17th; No Spoilers, Please

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message 1: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 37643 comments Mod
Hello Everyone,

For the week of March 11, 2012 - March 17, 2012, we are reading The Revolutions of 1848 and Finale: A Vision of the Future which is Chapter 20 of What God Hath Wrought.

The twentieth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK TWENTY: March 11, 2013 - March 17, 2013
20. The Revolutions of 1848
Finale: A Vision of the Future (792 - 855)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book is being kicked off on March 11th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. This weekly thread will be opened up on March 10th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be moderating this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bentley


TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

What Hath God Wrought The Transformation of America, 1815-1848 by Daniel Walker Howe by Daniel Walker Howe

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS ARE EXTREMELY DENSE SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in her research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

TOC and the Syllabus

The following is a link to the table of contents for the book and the weekly syllabus:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Book as a Whole Thread

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

What Hath God Wrought The Transformation of America, 1815-1848 by Daniel Walker Howe by Daniel Walker Howe


Katy (Kathy_H) Impressed with Nicolas Trist and others who did not actually agree with the war, but did their best as patriots. I had forgotten how close the California Gold Rush was to the signing of the treaty with Mexico. I love the description on page 818 (my copy) about California's diverse population. Unfortunately the Native Americans and other non-whites are treated so poorly as has been the norm for our emerging nation. Although religion is another avenue to victimize people (and still is).


Katy (Kathy_H) Now just need to finish the Finale -- has been a great read so far and am almost done. Thanks.


message 4: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Mar 20, 2013 05:24PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 37643 comments Mod
It does seem to be an anomaly that faith is believed to make a population act more spiritually towards their fellow man. Many of the Southern gentlemen were very religious and yet believed in slavery and Jackson was a church going man especially before and after his presidency. He did not go to the Presbyterian church during his presidency because he did not want it to appear that he was beholden to any church for his decisions. But having said that many would agree that some of his decisions towards the Native Americans were not religiously grounded. In fact quite the opposite. I often wondered what part religion played in these folks' lives when they were not that tolerant of others who were different or feared in their own right (like the Native Americans had been). Probably rightly so if their land was being stolen and their people uprooted.

Kathy, you have stayed on target and completed a fairly large undertaking. Well done.


Vincent (vpbrancato) | 1171 comments Well.... finished....??? will I read the Bibliographical Essay??? - I should but maybe not today.

Regarding the native americans, and other "non-whites" one can question if and how Americans of the time viewed the humanity of non-whites - pg 798 ..."But most southerners abhorred the idea of "all Mexico" which by incorporating millions of Mexican people , mainly of mixed race, and presumably granting them citizenship, would seriously compromise the nature of the United States as an exclusively white republic" - so bigotry was maybe universal and part of the game at church - especially in the slaveholding south - and let us not forget (but I am not sure where to file it in my head) that so many of these southern gentlemen fathered so many mixed race children.

It seems that Polk was able to take Mexican duties to help pay for the war. I just note in my mind that George W. Bush was not that cost conscious when it came to Iraqi oil (pg 797)

It is also interesting that to "justify" our taking California (pg 811) Howe has to wait until in the 1940s this possession enabled us to "take a strong stand" against the Japanese.

Also in reflection we come again (pg 813) to JQA - John Quincy Adams. I note that although other ex Presidents have led or participated in different efforts - Jimmy Carter's peace work - Clinton's Foundation -I think, from what I know that JQA was the only one that still "served" - he did not play a post-presidential role where he could make the rules. Yea JQA.

Page 821 and Howe's inclusion of the judgement that Concord's shot was not heard around the world makes me realize, here at the end again, how Howe has put so much into context and made, what seem to me, many valid observations about woman - Califronia gold in these reading but thru the whole book.

Also a little side comment on the status of "civilization" in societies we have (pg 822) the Creek Indians in Oklahoma in the 1840s donating 100,000 bushels of corn to the Irish. Wow - the scary thing is that if I want to understand this more I need to add more books to my list and the list is likely already more than I will get done.

Well it was great and I will think on it and I thank Bentley and I think Brinn when Bentley was busy - and I thank the others who shared their views with me too.


message 6: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 14, 2013 05:27PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 37643 comments Mod
Vince, there are many reasons for these kinds of feelings about nationality and ethnicity - one is worrying that the country will change so dramatically with the beliefs of immigrants that the country will not stand for what it stood for before and/or the rights of the majority will soon be lost. There are quite a few countries who worry about quotas this way and they are not bigoted but looking out for the safety of their groups and the integrity of its laws. Is it right, is it wrong - hard to decide some times. One main reason is that they are worried that the countries that they are having conflict with will create havoc for its current citizens. Israel has one such law called the Israeli Nationality Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_...

As far as bigotry in the South and the fathering of mixed race children - I agree with you - hard to know where to file that one.

George W. Bush should have taken some oil to pay for the war - why pretend otherwise. Many people however disagreed with doing that. There are many folks who fall on both sides of the argument on this one. One thing that everyone agrees with is that we are glad to be out of that conflict.

Though John Quincy Adams was cantankerous in his old age - he did serve and serve all of his life. In fact, he died serving.

I fear for the likelihood of your to read pile getting larger.

You are very welcome Vince.


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