Croissants, Coffee & Tea -- Part the Eighth

[Linda2]

MadgeUK wrote: "The House of Commons is also about to debate changing the Act of Succession so that eldest daughters can inherit the throne and it is even being mooted that we allow catholics to become Prime Minister but not Kings and Queens! "

They haven't decided yet if women are equal to men. I have no words strong enough for this.

[MadgeUK]

It's called tradition Rochelle:D. It also makes sense because females marry out of the family and so the succession to the crown (or an estate etc) can pass to any Tom Dick or Harry:), although we also have lots of rules/traditions to stop that happening. We can have female Prime Ministers which I think is far more important.

Denise: Entail is a very complicated subject. Here is a nice little piece about it:-

http://reginajeffers.wordpress.com/20...

And in reference to the entailing of Downtown Abbey:-

http://austenprose.com/2011/01/14/dow...

But think how much more difficult this change would have been if it had been written in a Constitution instead of a mere Act!

[Linda2]

MadgeUK wrote: "It's called tradition Rochelle:D. It also makes sense because females marry out of the family and so the succession to the crown (or an estate etc) can pass to any Tom Dick or Harry:), although we ..."

Wasn't a problem when Queen E married out of the family. And how about if a king marries out of the family and has no children?

Sexism was a tradition here too, but it's fading.

[Linda2]

Denise wrote: "I thought that the Act of Succession had already been changed to allow daughters to become monarch, and also that monarchs are now allowed to marry Catholics. Everything I have heard since has imp..."

Now that Lord G has lost all of Cora's money, it's no longer a problem. Can you imagine, they would have had to move into a house with 10 bedrooms instead of 20.

[MadgeUK]

I was joking about tradition Rochelle! Women marrying out of the family and monarchs having no children has caused enormous problems and wars in past monarchies so there have been attempts to avoid those eventualities.

Sexism is fading here too - the monarchy does not reflect British life as a whole, it is an anachronism. Remember that we elected a female Prime Minister several times:).

[Linda2]

MadgeUK wrote: "I was joking about tradition Rochelle! Women marrying out of the family and monarchs having no children has caused enormous problems and wars in past monarchies so there have been attempts to avoi..."

Yes, it is an anachronism, which I've known for years. they should have asked me.

I don't think it would cause a war any more, except the war between the sexes.

[Lynnm]

MadgeUK wrote: "The House of Commons is also about to debate changing the Act of Succession so that eldest daughters can inherit the throne and it is even being mooted that we allow catholics to become Prime Minister but not Kings and Queens! "

About time. ;) Actually, as you said, England has had a female Prime Minister so I don't think we can criticize them about the way they treat women.

But it is good to see about Catholics. A country as diverse as England shouldn't officially discriminate against people due to their religion.

[MadgeUK]

It will be much more difficult to legislate for the monarch to be a catholic because Henry VIII made the monarchy the Defender of the Protestant faith when he broke from Rome. That has been an important part of our history - remember, we beheaded a King in 1649 for being too catholic, chased his brother away for the same reason and imported the Hanoverian Protestants in The Glorious Revolution of 1688, and they have ruled since. Hopefully, we will become a Republic instead:)

[Lynnm]

MadgeUK wrote: "It will be much more difficult to legislate for the monarch to be a catholic because Henry VIII made the monarchy the Defender of the Protestant faith when he broke from Rome. That has been an impo..."

Not so much for the monarchy but for Prime Minister. To block a person from being Prime Minister due to their religion just isn't right.

[Denise]

Thanks for the links, Madge!

I don't thnk that the question under consideration is to allow the monarch to be Catholic, but for the monarch to be allowed to marry a Catholic.

[Lynnm]

Not happy at all about what happened on Downton Abbey tonight. I won't post what it was in case someone DVR'd it and hasn't watched it yet. But again, not happy.

:-(

[Linda2]

(view spoiler)[ She didn't renew her contract. The show has become too successful, and the actors are being grabbed for other jobs. But it could have been done differently. (hide spoiler)]

[Lynnm]

Thanks for the information, Rochelle.

[Linda2]

(view spoiler)[It happens on all series. I see a lot of people online thinking that this cast should be carved in stone. It's a sign that they've become so attached to all the characters. I'm wondering how they could have written her off otherwise without writing off Branson. (hide spoiler)]

[Denise]

I thought it was good plot point, but it was a shock.

(view spoiler)[I had had no idea that something like that would happen - don't remember any hint in the coming attractions, but once the doctors started to disagree, I expected it. I loved the shot of Branson holding the baby in the window at the end. I thought it was funny when Carson said to the other servants, "What will we do about Branson?" - it's not up to them to do anything about him - he's a member of the family now, not a servant! Also thinking they should take some action over Ethel being hired - none of their business!

The actor who plays Matthew is leaving, too - wonder how they will handle that. (hide spoiler)]

[Linda2]

Denise wrote: "I thought it was good plot point, but it was a shock.

I had had no idea that something like that would happen - don't remember any hint in the coming attractions, but once the doctors started to d..."

There was no hint. I've seen both of the spoilers online because I'm always searching for commentary and reviews on everything. It's OK with me. I still re-read Jane Eyre, knowing the ending.

[Lynnm]

Sadly, this is a problem with British TV. Never get too attached to a popular show or character because chances are that you won't see the show or character more than a couple of years. Obviously, not always, but it seems like far more than American TV.

[Linda2]

Lynnm wrote: "Sadly, this is a problem with British TV. Never get too attached to a popular show or character because chances are that you won't see the show or character more than a couple of years. Obviously,..."

I don't watch enough Brit TV to know, but it's done plenty in American series. No, I haven't any statistics on it. Maybe Brit TV doesn't pay their actors well?

Aside from DA's cast, I haven't really been attached to anyone lately. It was more so when I was young, but I couldn't even tell you most of the names of the characters in the programs I watch now. Maybe just Olivia in SVU because I like Mariska Hargitay so much.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Those of us reading The Law and the Lady by Wilkie Collins are wondering whether Julian Fellowes borrowed from it for the Anna/Bates story, a newly married woman working to prove her husband isn't guilty of poisoning his first wife.

[Lynnm]

Robin wrote: "Those of us reading The Law and the Lady by Wilkie Collins are wondering whether Julian Fellowes borrowed from it for the Anna/Bates story, a newly married woman working to prove her husband isn't ..."

I just started The Law and the Lady - I'll have to look for that. :-)

[Lynnm]

So what do you all think about the Richard III finding?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/201...

That was one of my favorite Shakespeare plays. He portrayed him as such a despicable person, but I felt a bit bad for the Richard III in the play.

And now the debate over whether Richard III was as bad as he has been portrayed or whether he was doing what any other medieval king would have done has been revived.

[Kim]

It's a fascinating discovery and there's something very poignant about the images of the skeleton in the grave, with the scoliosis so evident. The facial reconstruction is very interesting too.

Richard III is probably my favourite of the history plays (although Henry V is up there as well). I saw Kevin Spacey's fabulous production a couple of years ago when it was on a world tour. It was riveting.

[Frances, Moderator]

It is so wonderful for you to have your history and your literature combined unearthed in this way-to know that under your carparks there is such treasure. It certainly makes this North American very envious!

[Lynnm]

Kim - anything with Kevin Spacey would be great! Lucky that you saw him in person. (For those with Netflix, he's in a made for Netflix show called House of Cards. I watched the first half hour, and so far, while very dark, it's excellent.)

Frances - I think that it's so strange they found him under a car park. That's the only part of the story I am missing. What made them think to look under that particular car park?

And here's the link for the facial reconstruction:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-...

[Kim]

There's a montage of scenes from Kevin Spacey's RIII production here.

Lynn, this piece of audio explains why they started digging up the car park. It was because it was known to be part of the grounds of Greyfriars Priory. There were written records indicating that Richard III may have been buried there. A member of the Richard III Society persuaded archeologists to dig.

[Linda2]

Lynnm wrote: "And now the debate over whether Richard III was as bad as he has been portrayed or whether he was doing what any other medieval king would have done has been revived. "

S souped up all his stories for his own purposes. The answer is probably yes.

Very few of S's characters are totally evil. Aside from Iago, they all have some humanity in them.

[Linda2]

Frances wrote: "It is so wonderful for you to have your history and your literature combined unearthed in this way-to know that under your carparks there is such treasure. It certainly makes this North American ve..."

We have our history buried under pizza parlors.

[Lily]

Denise wrote: "..."

Denise -- have been sitting here tonight munching on Manchego cheese with quince preserves (these like a soft paste) along with a glass of Spanish sherry and, of course, thoughts returned of the days when you introduced us to that combo and little ceremony while we were reading Don Quixote together on another site!

(The supermarket where I was doing my grocery shopping tonight had the quince preserves [hard to find] and then I went looking for the cheese.)

Cheers!

[Linda2]

I've been munchimg on honey-twist pretzels and diet soda.

[Lily]

Rochelle wrote: "I've been munchimg on honey-twist pretzels and diet soda."

Were you reading DQ with us back then?

[Linda2]

More likely I was reading The Chickens are Restless, by Gary Larson.

[Linda2]

Lily wrote: "Denise -- have been sitting here tonight munching on Manchego cheese with quince preserves (these like a soft paste) along with a glass of Spanish sherry and, of course, though..."

Any chance you got those at Jerry's in Englewood? It's a encyclopedia of cheese.

[Lily]

Rochelle wrote: "Lily wrote: "Denise -- have been sitting here tonight munching on Manchego cheese with quince preserves (these like a soft paste) along with a glass of Spanish sherry and, of course, though..."

Any chance you got those at Jerry's in Englewood?..."

Nope, just the local Stop and Shop -- oops, ShopRite. Not a store I ordinarily use -- it's too big for a single person's shopping -- but I was in the area last night and needed to do some stocking up of my own shelves. I was surprised to come across the quince, so then went looking for the cheese. It brought back such pleasant memories of the boards at B&N and the conversations there. Denise had studied in Spain, so she made the introduction.

This Manchego was in a very commercial vacuum-seal packaging, which I have never encountered before, aged six months according to the label. In cheese specialty collections, I have encountered at least two lengths of aging -- the longer, over nine months, does produce a deeper flavored cheese. But this was delightful, to my palate, at least.

[Denise]

Yum, Lily! I never see the quince paste around here, although the local supermarket usually has Manchego, and I buy it from time to time. I'm glad you're carrying on the tradition!

[Kim]

I love quince paste and I made a lot of it last winter. Good with brie or camembert as well as with manchego!

[Linda2]

Lily wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Lily wrote: "Denise -- have been sitting here tonight munching on Manchego cheese with quince preserves (these like a soft paste) along with a glass of Spanish sherry and, of cours..."

We have 3 of those ShopRite superstores here. After I had each knee done, I used the motorized cart to do my shopping! They've also gotten my physical therapist's approval for "serious walking and standing." The secret is to go in at a weird hour, like 8 AM or 10 PM. Will look for quince paste, by the jams and preserves (?)

[Denise]

A local bar (in a hotel close to my last job) offered an appetizer of fig jam/paste with Manchego. We had a gathering there after work once, and since a colleague and I had both previously studied in Spain, we decided to order it. Unfortunately, we both agreed that the cheese served was NOT Manchego! The supermarket later had jars of fig jam at the cheese display, so I bought some, but I haven't been able to get it open! :-( If I ever do, I'll pick up some Manchego and see what the combination is really like!

[Lily]

Rochelle wrote: "We have 3 of those ShopRite superstores here. ...The secret is to go in at a weird hour, like 8 AM or 10 PM. Will look for quince paste, by the jams and preserves(?) ..."

This one isn't really a superstore. It was a major expansion of an old store, so it has a layout very different than the ShopRite Superstore that I have been in that was laid out from scratch. By the way, this store closes at 10 pm, as do most supermarkets in the area (I know of one open until 11 pm)! Fascinating part of the state so close to NYC and other suburban towns.

Here I found the "preserves" (Harvest Song, Great Neck, NY, product of Armenia [meaning?]) in a small specialty grouping of dried fruits et al next to the produce section. Just around the corner was a cooler case with a relatively small selection of cheeses. In this store, the deli/fresh fish/specialty meat cuts line the wall adjacent to the fresh produce. This was like a little island between the two, definitely not the long aisle with its vast variety of jams and jellies -- the kind of thing you stumble upon more readily than you go looking for.

Denise, if you have trouble opening jars, look for a wonderful implement from OXO. (http://www.oxo.com/p-408-jar-opener.aspx) Even it will slip on a rare occasion, but with a little hot water over a metal lid, I've always been successful. It handles such a wide range of lids. I seldom use the little pad that comes with it to aid in keeping a jar or bottle from sliding. I don't have strong wrists when it comes to opening things and I would be lost without mine --mine gets used almost daily, even for soda sometimes. As you may remember, I used fig jam or paste when I couldn't find quince. Hope you can get yours open soon. (My pre-OXO trick was sometimes to take a troublesome jar with me to a friend with stronger wrists.)

Okay -- I went looking. Try here: http://www.harvestsongventures.com/en...

[Linda2]

Lily wrote: ". By the way, this store closes at 10 pm, as do most supermarkets in the area (I know of one open until 11 pm)! Fascinating part of the state so close to NYC and other suburban towns. "

And you still have the blue laws in NJ, no Sunday shopping. Blaaah!

I have a similar jar opener, with 2 claws that grab the sides and tighten when you turn. Even so, last week I had to put the jar into my carpentry vise first.

http://www.easydinnerrecipes.net/twis...

You two are enticing me. Gonna look for the quince jam and cheese this week.

[Lynnm]

I miss Madge being here to talk politics. I saw that Labour is leading the Conservatives by a lot, and wanted to woot woot with Madge, but then remembered she doesn't come on much any more. :-(

[Linda2]

Lynnm wrote: "I miss Madge being here to talk politics. I saw that Labour is leading the Conservatives by a lot, and wanted to woot woot with Madge, but then remembered she doesn't come on much any more. :-("

Just emailed her.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Rochelle wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "I miss Madge being here to talk politics. I saw that Labour is leading the Conservatives by a lot, and wanted to woot woot with Madge, but then remembered she doesn't come on much any..."

I'm missing her too.

[Linda2]

Just got an email. She's fine, but she's on a nonfiction kick.

[Lynnm]

Rochelle wrote: "Just got an email. She's fine, but she's on a nonfiction kick."

Thanks, Rochelle. Hopefully, she'll be back to fiction soon because it's not the same without her.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Lynnm wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Just got an email. She's fine, but she's on a nonfiction kick."

Thanks, Rochelle. Hopefully, she'll be back to fiction soon because it's not the same without her."

I'm tempted to email her too to let her know how much her interaction is missed. I feel like some of heart has gone out of the research and the discussions without her.

[MadgeUK]

Thanks for your kind words folks. I may join you for a Gaskell, who is one of my favourites:) As Rochelle reports I am on a non-fiction kick, politics of course and archaeology. When I again go down to the Jurassic coast this year I want to know more:)

Lynn: Labour was ahead in the polls but since Cameron craftily announced that he is going to hold a Referendum on whether we should be in or out of Europe and Milliband did not say whether Labour would or not, his ratings have shot up. This is because the majority of the public want to come out of Europe because they now see it as a source of too many immigrants. The poverty stricken countries of Bulgaria and Romania are due to come into the EU later this year and that is a potential source of thousands (the Mail says 'millions') of many more people coming here under the 'free movement of people' edicts. I think this one topic might win Cameron the election, even though ordinary people are suffering enormously at the hands of his very unfair cuts to all public services and welfare benefits, including to those of the disabled and children. I find the attacks being made upon the working poor, who are being demonised as 'scroungers', very depressing and I mourn the fact that there are no longer any Labour leaders willing to fight for them.

The low wages being paid by employers here are being subsidised by welfare benefits which enable their employees to keep their heads above water but they are not demonised:(. (62% of welfare claimants are in low paid work.) Now there is yet another attack upon council house tenants who are having to pay approx £20 a week more rent for any unoccupied bedroom in their home, even that of a child away at university. This is forcing low paid and unemployed people out of their homes and onto the streets or into the hands of unscrupulous private landlords running B&B 'hotels'. Rents in London are astronomical and subsidies have always been necessary so that low paid people can work in and service the capital. And of course this means that even more immigrants willing to work for much lower wages will be encouraged to come here.....I despair! London is now the most unequal city in the developed world:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr...

Lily reminded me of our discussion of Don Quixote and I think I might get some Manchego cheese and Quince jelly when I go out later today - as a gesture of solidarity with y'all:) Also, like Lily, I have been having some trouble with my eyesight and getting correct specs. Thank goodness for the font enlargement facility on Kindle!

[MadgeUK]

Oh and something for the DA fans. Julian Fellowes is presenting a series on our great houses and the history thereof which I hope will get to PBS. He has a very irreverent and amusing take on it all:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr...

And you royal watchers may like to know that, according to one of the Duchess of Cornwall's friends: “It is absolute lunacy to say that Camilla wants to be queen. Take it from me, Camilla is the type of person who likes to stay in her nightie for as long as possible in the morning, if not the day.”

[Lynnm]

MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks for your kind words folks. I may join you for a Gaskell, who is one of my favourites:) As Rochelle reports I am on a non-fiction kick, politics of course and archaeology. When I again go dow..."

Madge - welcome back! It truly wasn't the same without you.

And I have been reading about the Referendum, which is why I was surprised when I read a couple days ago that Labour had a big lead on Cameron.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/20...

I understand why the majority of Brits want to leave the EU, but in the long run, it is a bad decision (in my humble opinion). If the EU can actually can its act together, the European region can be a huge economic block in competing against China, the U.S., and the Middle East.

And Cameron is destroying the middle class and the poor with his austerity policies. Britain is used as the example of how NOT to attack the current economic woes.

Interesting article on inequality in Britain, especially London. Although, I did disagree with the example of New York. While probably not as bad, outside of Harlem, Manhattan is almost impossible to live in today unless you are very wealthy or you have wealthy parents willing to pay the tab (the only way young people can live there unless they have 4-5 people in an apartment, some of them living in closests.)

And it is difficult in the rest of the U.S., especially for young people to have the same type of life as their parents. They are loaded with college debt, can't afford houses, have jobs that don't match their education, etc. Also, teachers, police officers, firefighters, etc. can't afford the same things that their counterparts did just 20-30 years ago.

[Lynnm]

MadgeUK wrote: "Oh and something for the DA fans. Julian Fellowes is presenting a series on our great houses and the history thereof which I hope will get to PBS. He has a very irreverent and amusing take on it a..."

Sounds interesting! I'll have to look on PBS, but I don't remember seeing it on the listing.

But the link was the same as the inequality article.

I did find this link on the show:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radi...

[MadgeUK]

Oh, sorry Lynn - that was the link I meant to post on Fellowes:) Can you pick this up:-

https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/great-h...

I am afraid that capitalism is biting back the world over Lynn and the post war social policies pioneered in Europe, especially in the UK and Germany, are now being phased out country by country - although Germany is still hanging on in there. Not because they have failed but because we have not heeded the words of your Lucy Parsons, the Chicago Union leader: “Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth”:(:(. We must regroup and try again. And we must heed the literary lessons we have learned here on RR about what it used to be like when capitalism was even more red in tooth and claw.

And yes a European Union is essential if we are to compete against the big boys and I hope that the Referendum campaign will spell out the economic dangers of leaving.