The Year of Reading Proust discussion
The Fugitive, vol. 6
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Through Sunday, 17 Nov.: The Fugitive
Marcus wrote: "is Proust's device - autobiog as novel or vice versa - post-modernism?"Certainly the issue of "identity" is a large one in this novel, and is extremely open to interpretation partly because we cannot be certain if he would have modified some aspects.
The playing with mirrors was already a major thing during the baroque period (I think I mentioned this in an earlier post - just checkd, on the Nov 3rd Thread post 148).
The best example to my mind is Velazquez's Las Meninas, in which the true subject of the painting is not there, but reflected on the mirror in the back, mirror which together with its reflection are painted and therefore are in the painting.
And the painter is inside the painting looking at that which he is painting (us the viewers or us King and Queen of Spain) as well as the canvas he is painting. But his painted painting is not what is depicted in the painting we are watching, because he is watching us and not that which we are watching.
But of course the painter was outside the painting and depicted what we are seeing.
I hope I did not make you dizzy.
Another interesting note in the GF edition, in relation to the young man with whom Gilberte had been taking a walk in the Champs-Elysées.. In the main text it is not revealed who this young man was but the note says that an added piece of paper indicated that it was Léa, dressed up as a man.Proust ajoute, dans un béquet, ces quelques lignes qu'il lui aurait certainement fallu, para la suite, à adapter au contexte: "Je lui demandai, c'était Léa habillée en homme. Elle savait qu'elle connaissait Albertine, mais ne pouvait dire plus. Ainsi certaines personnes se retrouvent toujours dans notre vie pour préparer nos plaisirs et nos douleurs."
Yes, picking up on your comments, Marcus, and Kalliope's earlier reference to post-modernism, there is a sense that Proust seeks to involve us, the readers, as well as himself, the reader/author, in the fiction in a meta-fictional way - he speaks directly to us, acknowledging that he knows we know what his fictional strategies are about and plays about with himself as narrator/author/reader. There's a fair amount of temporal distortion too and some pastiche, both aspects of post-modernism. There are one or two occasions when real characters interact with fictional ones too, another device generally referred to as post-modernist.
Sorry Kalliope, I posted before I'd refreshed the page and hadn't see your comments.That Velasquez is such a complex work. I know that it is the king and queen, the true subjects of the sitting that are reflected in the mirror at the back but who was the man in the doorway - another self portrait or a brother/relative of the artist? I can't remember...
Glad to see that I didn't miss any earlier reference to Odette and Jupien!
Kalliope wrote: "... et bientôt après, comme on le verra, Duchesse de Guermantes). p. 333. The footnote says: "on n'assistera pas dans le roman à cette dernière transformation."This whole conversation about what happens to the two new marriages seems to me to be narrated with the foot on the accelerator... "
:( I was looking forward to reading more about Gilberte becoming the Duchesse... Had Proust lived another 10 years, we'd have had the end of Albertine wonderfully detailed... and probably a few more volumes to enjoy. We can only regret he wasn't able to revise (ie expand and inflate with endless digressions and musings written in mile-long paperoles) the section on Venice and to fully develop the backend of Albertine because there is so much that is intriguing there and is sadly rushed. I'd have loved to find out whether Saint-Loup & Gilberte had a say in their marriage...
The name "Robert" is a rather interesting choice indeed. I'm also struck that the Narrator's father has all but disappeared in this volume...
I really like the work on opposites in these last few pages: the rise and fall of characters like scales on a balance... Gilberte's salon vs that of her mother & mother in law... Legrandin & Charlus...Au fur et à mesure que M. de Charlus s'était alourdi et abruti, Legrandin était devenu plus élancé et rapide, effet contraire d'une même cause.
(...) presque personne ne remarqua qu'en lui disant bonjour M. de Charlus lui adressa un sourire difficile à percevoir, plus encore à interpréter; ce sourire était pareil en apparence, et au fond était exactement l'inverse, de celui que deux hommes qui ont l'habitude de se voir dans la bonne société échangent si par hasard ils se rencontrent dans ce qu'ils trouvent un mauvais lieu...
Of course the word "inverse" also reminds us of both characters' "inversion," ie homosexuality.
Eugene often points out the opposites Proust sprinkles his work with. It's particularly visible in this part of accelerated narration.
Fionnuala wrote: "Sorry Kalliope, I posted before I'd refreshed the page and hadn't see your comments.That Velasquez is such a complex work. I know that it is the king and queen, the true subjects of the sitting th..."
The wiki article has a list of the characters in this painting...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Meninas
So, the one you are referring to would be Don José Nieto Velázquez, who was an "aposentador" (a role within the private court servants) of the Queen, and probably a relation of the painter, while Velázquez the painter was the "aposentador" of the King.
Book Portrait wrote: "I really like the work on opposites in these last few pages: the rise and fall of characters like scales on a balance... Gilberte's salon vs that of her mother & mother in law... Legrandin & Charlu..."And don't the 'opposites' refer also to the 'du côté de' aspect of the Recherche? interesting to see that in this section the Narrator finally uses the term 'homosexuel' instead of 'inverti' as if his own thinking, or language use in general, had evolved in the meantime...
Thanks for the Velásquez info, Kalliope - that is what I remembered more or less and only emphasizes the complexity of the narrative inside the painting.
Going to the Frick not for a 'View of Delft' but to see'Girl with a Pearl Earring' (which) is the sole work on view in the Oval Room...
http://www.frick.org//exhibitions/mau...
Kalliope wrote: "Another interesting note in the GF edition, in relation to the young man with whom Gilberte had been taking a walk in the Champs-Elysées.. In the main text it is not revealed who this young man was..."Not Léa, but this is Misia Sert dressed up as a man... Photo taken from book.
Misia: The Life of Misia Sert
The Moncrieff translation says the boy walking with Gilberte was Lea dressed as a male.
Fionnuala wrote: "Sorry Kalliope, I posted before I'd refreshed the page and hadn't see your comments.That Velasquez is such a complex work. I know that it is the king and queen, the true subjects of the sitting th..."
I am glad to hear that you did not see the connection between Odette and Jupien either. I also think that using Marcel was a fluke and that Proust would have rather not have left it. I think that as we approach the end we are going to see more and more inconsistencies, since he was in such rush to finish it and I don't doubt that, being the perfectionist he was, he would probably tear his hair out, seeing what is puzzling us.
I must say that Marcus's spin on identity and Kalliope's description of Las Meninas do wrinkle my brain a bit but it was actually very helpful to have the concept illustrated in such a concrete way.
It's hard to understand Proust's love of 'View of Delft' but perhaps he'd not seen Vermeer's portraits as Vermeer's work was not that well known in France in the earliest 20th century. 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' has that inexplicable strangeness to the eyes that makes you want to see it again.
Kalliope wrote: "Marcus wrote: "is Proust's device - autobiog as novel or vice versa - post-modernism?"Certainly the issue of "identity" is a large one in this novel, and is extremely open to interpretation partl..."
You did - make me dizzy - but I enjoyed it :)
I was wandering about the web googling when I was brought into our group and saw this post by Karen that mentions Odette being with Forcheville. Gilberte, we know has become Mille de Forcheville! Could Gilberte actually be his daughter?Karen- message 29: Feb 2,2013:
Replying to my own message 12: I suppose now in the clear light of morning that Forcheville was still in the house when Swann came back an hour later, having heard movement and steps the first time he was there. When he came back after an hour, Odette did let him in, so presumably the 'uncle' to whom she opened was Swann. And Forcheville was probably hiding in the boudoir.
I was a bit thrown by the strange logic in Swann's thoughts. When he makes out that sentence in Odette's letter, 'I was right to open the door, it was my uncle' the text says something like 'Open! So Forcheville must have been there just now when Swann had rung and she had had him sent away' There's a bit of a discrepancy between open and being sent away.
An example of how Proust brings you up short every now and again. And maybe how we are forced to mistrust Swann's view of things.
Fionnuala wrote: "And don't the 'opposites' refer also to the 'du côté de' aspect of the Recherche?"I wonder if we'll get more about the two sides (côtés) coming together than just the marriage between Saint-Loup & Gilberte (or the Jupien & Gilberte connection!?). Maybe I should reread that part but it felt slightly disappointing...
I was surprised to find the word "homosexual" too! I should go back and take a closer look... Proust is still so dense & rich even at his sketchiest. :)
Thanks Kalliope & Marcus: I'm really enjoying your conversation on post-modernism and baroque art. :)
ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "I was wandering about the web googling when I was brought into our group and saw this post by Karen that mentions Odette being with Forcheville. Gilberte, we know has become Mille de Forcheville! C..."Reem is certainly our Sherlock À la recherche du "post" perdu.... Yes, that possibility acquires a new light now.... I think it was raised in the discussion whether Gilberte was Swann's daughter, given that the whole episode of the marriage and birth and the cruise was so sudden and condensed....!!!!
Jocelyne wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "Sorry Kalliope, I posted before I'd refreshed the page and hadn't see your comments.That Velasquez is such a complex work. I know that it is the king and queen, the true subjects..."
Jocelyne, the next volume should not feel so drafty. He basically wrote it before the Albertine ones. With this one I think we are finished with the unpolished ones.
Marcus wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Marcus wrote: "is Proust's device - autobiog as novel or vice versa - post-modernism?"Certainly the issue of "identity" is a large one in this novel, and is extremely open to int..."
LOL... like going around in one of these...
or playing with:
On Odette....I think the most reprehensible aspect of her personality or actions is encountered in this section. She is willing to argue for her son-in-law and persuade her daughter to put up with the fact that her husband is going off with another man on a trip, in exchange for a rubi.
She is selling her soul.
Fionnuala wrote: "Book Portrait wrote: "I really like the work on opposites in these last few pages: the rise and fall of characters like scales on a balance... Gilberte's salon vs that of her mother & mother in law..."I think he used the term "homosexuel" before and qualified it as "the German term"....
Martin wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Martin wrote: "Yes, Martin, I agree with you on the themes of escape whether from others or one..."
Martin, the Introduction to my edition goes into detail on this issue of the planned title and how the choice La fugitive was abandoned because the translation of Tagore's with the same name.
This introduction is rather complex but I will try and select some of the points on the very complex history and circumstances of the composition and publication of the volume, in a later post.
Fionnuala wrote: "Yes, picking up on your comments, Marcus, and Kalliope's earlier reference to post-modernism, there is a sense that Proust seeks to involve us, the readers, as well as himself, the reader/author, i..."Thank you Fio. This is a very clear summary of the very novel elements in Proust's novel that makes us thing that he was already addressing issues developed further by the post-moderns.
The one that struck me most is his awareness of the role of the reader, which he fully realizes when he becomes his own reader, and which also coincides with his increasing awareness of the impossibility to approach truth through representation.
And of course the other elements, the pastiche, the manipulation of time and the interplay of fictional and real characters, that you mention are also there...
Excellent. Thank you.
Book Portrait wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "And don't the 'opposites' refer also to the 'du côté de' aspect of the Recherche?"I wonder if we'll get more about the two sides (côtés) coming together than just the marriage b..."
BP, a bit more on Baroque art... and it is funny because now in Madrid we have at the Thyssen an exhibition on the Surrealists and the Dream.
http://www.museothyssen.org/microsite...
But the Baroque artists had also played with the idea of the dream. The play La vida es sueño dealt with the borderline between reality, dream, shadows and fiction...
This couplet is famous:
¿Qué es la vida? Un frenesí.
¿Qué es la vida? Una ilusión,
una sombra, una ficción,
y el mayor bien es pequeño;
que toda la vida es sueño,
y los sueños, sueños son.
Looking for the English translation in the wiki... I find this paragraph:
Dreams vs. reality
The concept of life as a dream is an ancient one found in Hinduism and Platonism. It has been explored by writers from Lope de Vega to Shakespeare. Key elements from the play may be derived from the Christian legend of Barlaam and Josaphat, which Lope de Vega had brought to the stage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_...
Another Theme with a long tradition....
Kalliope wrote: "Book Portrait wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "And don't the 'opposites' refer also to the 'du côté de' aspect of the Recherche?"I wonder if we'll get more about the two sides (côtés) coming together th..."
Thanks! I agree dreams have always been a theme in philosophy, art, etc. A passage in Albertine made me think of Plato's Allegory of the Cave but I can't find it. I'll have to look and come back.
And there's also an exhibition on dreams at the moment in Paris. :)
http://www.museeduluxembourg.fr/fr/ex...
ETA: I found the passage I had in mind, where the Narrator (once again) muses on the impossibility of untangling Albertine's lies:
J'avais bien remarqué le désir et la dissimulation d'Albertine pour aller chez Mme Verdurin et je ne m'étais pas trompé. Mais alors même qu'on tient ainsi un fait, des autres on ne perçoit que l'apparence; car l'envers de la tapisserie, l'envers réel de l'action, de l'intrigue--aussi bien que celui de l'intelligence, du coeur--se dérobe et nous ne voyons passer que des silhouettes plates dont nous nous disons: c'est ceci, c'est cela; c'est à cause d'elle, ou de telle autre. p283 (last week's section)
Dreams, illusions and reality have always been a mainstay in art and philosophy. Proust adds the complexity of memory and evolving psychology. The world/reality is not easy to grasp, it's very fluid, quite like his writing. :)
Book Portrait wrote: "I wonder if we'll get more about the two sides (côtés) c..."
Thank you for the tip on this exhibition... Looks wonderful.. will investigate..... And next year is the year of El Greco.
Kalliope wrote: "On Odette....I think the most reprehensible aspect of her personality or actions is encountered in this section. She is willing to argue for her son-in-law and persuade her daughter to put up wi..."
Can't agree with you here, Kall. Odette is consistent and lives her life the way she was taught to in that vaguely sketched early life in Nice. Her motto has always been that people are instrumental, they help you get what you want, in this case, the luxuries she herself can no longer afford. But even more valuable to her, and worth any subterfuge, would be the position of Marquise for her daughter - with the prospect of her becoming a duchess in the future when the current Duc de Guermantes is dead. There is a nice irony that the Duchess, who would never acknowledge her in the past, may eventually be supplanted by Odette's own daughter. And Princesse de Guermantes is also a possibility...
We discussed Gilberte's parentage at some length back in volume two, I remember. It was felt that Odette was manipulating Swann throughout her affair with him and only finally consented to marry him because of her daughter - although the details of that episode were kept hidden. And the letter you mentioned, Reem has a mirror image when the Narrator reads a letter which he thinks has been addressed to Albertine in the fifth volume. There are reflections and opposites at every stage of the Recherche - isn't it interesting that a mirror image is always the opposite of the real image?
Book Portrait, I love the sentence you quoted in message 126 about the reverse side of the tapestry where we can only see the basic shapes of the design and have to guess the rest. That's exactly what reading this last section was like. And on the reverse side, everything is 'opposite'...this idea reminds me too of the title of one of Javier Mariàs' novels, The Dark Back of Time.
Fionnuala wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "On Odette....I think the most reprehensible aspect of her personality or actions is encountered in this section. She is willing to argue for her son-in-law and persuade her daug..."
Fio, I agree with your overall judgement of Odette.. She is a "cocotte" after all, and even the Narrator does not seem to hold her in great esteem now that he is an adult (a quote on this below), and so her siding with her daughters husband and willingness to protect his homosexual affairs, in a way did not surprise me. As you say, it is consistent with what we have seen, but for me so far this is the worst.
And yes, she wants a high position for her daughter. She even found the Marquis of Saint-Loup not high enough.. She would have preferred for the daughter to marry a Prince... but her interest is not so much for her daughter as for herself.
The following quote struck me on the second reading.. On the train when the mother and the Narrator are discussing the letters, in reference to Odette, the mother says that may be they were too harsh in judging her, to which the N replies.. not at all.. I could tell you more about it, with family implications, one of these days...
"Oh! une cocotte, tu sais, on était peut-être méchant, je n'ai jamais tout cru"-- Si, une cocotte: je te ferai même des révélations... familiales un autre jour".p. 323.
He must be thinking of his uncle and "la dame en rose"....
Another early thread picked up later on...
Kalliope wrote: ""Oh! une cocotte, tu sais, on était peut-être méchant, je n'ai jamais tout cru"-- Si, une cocotte: je te ferai même des révélations... familiales un autre jour".p. 323."There were so many révélations in this section, how could the one about la dame en rose be left out!
And, as you say, the adult Narrator has become more worldly-wise than his mother. We remember the scenes in Combray when he overheard such allusions about Odette but was too naive to understand the implications then.
More mirror opposites.
Kalliope wrote:Reem is certainly our Sherlock À la recherche du "post" perdu.... Yes, that possibility acquires a new light now....
LOL, love it!
Reem must be an old friend of Mamma from Combray,Some old friends of my mother, who belonged more or less to Combray, came to see her to discuss Gilberte's marriage...
"...She (Odette) managed to persuade the first to marry her, then the third, and she drags out the second when he has one foot in the grave to get him to be a witness at the marriage of the daughter she had by the first or by someone else—for how is one to tell who the father was? She can't be certain herself! I said the third, but I should have said the three hundredth. Mind you..." ML p. 919
Kalliope: one of the more evil AP English essay questions in the past has been: Describe a work of literature with a character who is important to the plot, yet never appears. I think Léa would qualify for this.
Eugene wrote: "Reem must be an old friend of Mamma from Combray,Some old friends of my mother, who belonged more or less to Combray, came to see her to discuss Gilberte's marriage...
"...She (Odette) managed t..."
LOL Eugene, I've never cared for Gilberte much, but I suppose Swann's Way has to meet the Guermantes Way at some point in the novel.
Proust the master of the bouleversement...St Loup's past and Albertine's both to a large degree redeeming the Narrator, who had been testing my patience with his selfish behaviour in relation to both these characters, and showing that he had grounds. Though I guess we can never know for sure if these grounds. - the pasts of St L and A - are true. One of the key lessons for me from ISOLT is that - we can never know another, maybe because that other can never know themselves.@Kalliope - hall of mirrors...perfect visual reprsentation of the novel to my mind
Marcus wrote: "Proust the master of the bouleversement...St Loup's past and Albertine's both to a large degree redeeming the Narrator, who had been testing my patience with his selfish behaviour in relation to bo..."Perfect word, Marcus... bouleversement...
For me another learning point, or reminder, is that things and people and our perception of them change in unexpected ways throughout our life.
Elizabeth wrote: "one of the more evil AP English essay questions in the past has been: Describe a work of literature with a character who is important to the plot, yet never appears. I think Léa would q..."Lol. Great question. My vote goes to Mme Putbus' illusive maid. Each time she "appears", she puts our Narrator in such a fever! Yet she remains a mystery. Which is exactly her appeal for him. He does like imagining out-of-this-world excitements, or chasing ghosts. It's about the possibilities, the imagination, the inner world. :)
Book Portrait wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "one of the more evil AP English essay questions in the past has been: Describe a work of literature with a character who is important to the plot, yet never appears. I think Léa..."Yes, BP and Elizabeth, I think Putbus is a better candidate than Léa, since it seems the latter was seen as the young man walking with Gilberte in the Champs-Elysées, although this remains in a foot note and a "paperolle".
Kalliope wrote: "I have just finished reading Fortuny, Proust y los Ballets Rusos.I plan to write a review but will include here some of his points.
Guillermo De Osma has produ..."
Following the Madrazo saga and to add to the series of images of Cocteau that BP posted earlier on, here is the portrait painted by "Cocó" Madrazo, identity within the Madrazo family, traced in the post above. Federico de Madrazo y Ochoa, aka "Cocó", was the stepson of Maria Hahn. His father was Raymundo de Madrazo y Garreta (1841-1920) who had named his son after his own father, the other and more famous Federico de Madrazo y Kuntz (1815-1894).
Wiki confuses the two Federicos, the grandfather and Coco. The latter died in 1835 and was the painter of this portrait (also wrongly attributed to the grandfather in wiki).
Fionnuala: funny French Langue note. Our lecturer in French II (or 201...or something) was explaining that the French of Quebec is archaic French (he paralleled it to the English of the Appalachians). Cocotte, he explained, originally meant "doll." Now of course, well, obviously. So: here's the scene; the Quebec family is at the airport, waiting for their long-lost French relatives to arrive. When they do, they have a cute little girl, and the Quebecois exclaim, "Ah, la petite cocotte!" Can we say Awkward?
Elizabeth wrote: "Fionnuala: funny French Langue note. Our lecturer in French II (or 201...or something) was explaining that the French of Quebec is archaic French (he paralleled it to the English of the Appalachi..."Wonderful story. Something similar happens with Spanish in Spain and in Latinoamerica. Some "archaic" words in Spain are kept alive in some of the countries in the Americas.
Kalliope wrote: "Marcus wrote: "Proust the master of the bouleversement...St Loup's past and Albertine's both to a large degree redeeming the Narrator, who had been testing my patience with his selfish behaviour in..."Yes Kalliope: things, people, situations all change depending on our relationship - geospatial, temporal and psychological - to them..but also how we 'look' is a variable too. So there are passive variabes we may have no control over - space and time - and active variables - love and a desire to give attention to - which can alter our perceptions of people, places and things. With his imagination, Proust turns the passive variables - space and time - into active ones that he can 'operate'.
I was rather troubled with the ending of The Fugitive because I was waiting in anticpation for the brilliant final act that he usually ends each volume with, and as I flipped the page and realized it was the last, I thought what happened, where is it?!!The last sentence was fine but it wasn't enough. I was much too greedy as I have become spoiled by Proust. Then I thought well perhaps it is because I already knew that Gilberte and St. Loup were going to be married, and figured, yes, that had to be it. But I was still troubled.Clearly, this volume was written during ill health.Then I realized that in this volume, Proust reminded me of Fyodor Dostoeyvsky with whom I've had a troubled past because I don't think I've ever finished reading him even though I've tried a few times. I'm not an academic, but I believe I read somewhere that he always employed opposites in his writing, that everything had a polar opposite. It occurs to me that the Narrator and Albertine, and Gilberte and Robert as couples are opposites. N trying to buy Albertines love even though she was interested in women, and Gilberte trying to buy Robert's love even though he loved men. The Captive and The Fugitive are all about loss,loss, loss and grieving, and of course readers will all relate and identify and crave his psychological observations.
The way in which Proust speeds up and slows down time does remind me of Fionnuala's comment that it is like listening to an accordian, or maybe a violin.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307...
and maybe a touch of revenge to get back at Gilberte for not loving him!
Marcus wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "Marcus wrote: "Proust the master of the bouleversement...St Loup's past and Albertine's both to a large degree redeeming the Narrator, who had been testing my patience with his sel..."Marcus, I liked your view on Proust changing, through his imagination, the passive variables of time and space...Wonderful.
In fact he refers to this precisely in the second paragraph of the last volume..., when he says that the bell tower of the Church at Combray displayed for him the space and distance of years past (mettant ainsi sous mes jeux la distance des lieus et des années).
ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "I was rather troubled with the ending of The Fugitive because I was waiting in anticpation for the brilliant final act that he ends each volume and as I flipped the page and realized it was the las..."I am preparing a sort of summary of the Intro to this volume from my edition.
One interpretation is that the two Albertine volumes are like a Dyptich.... Even though in the Intro they see some problems with this idea --somewhat reductionist--, it makes a lot of sense to me.... And I think it is also probable... Proust was very knowledgeable of Medieval architecture and art, and was familiar with the "programs" found in the Romanesque/Gothic churches and their sculpture. The book by Emile Mâle, which he carried under his arm, is organized in this programmatic thematic way. I read Mâle years ago, but hope to reread him soon.
Proust loves contrast, whether simultaneous or presented along time.
Kalli, I went searching for answers and found this book, but not much on it though. Have you seen it before?Proust, the One, and the Many
Identity and Difference in A la recherche du temps perdu
Erika Fülöp
http://www.legendabooks.com/titles/is...
She speaks of :
jealousy as a literary theme and narrative device
- the psychology and metaphysics of jealousy, love triangles
- the roles and representation of jealousy in the Proustian novel and the figure of Swann
- Proustian influence on later representations of love and jealousy (Radiguet, Robbe-Grillet, Claude Simon)
- jealousy in life and writing (Proust and Agostinelli, Gide and Cocteau)
- queer, male and female jealousy
at this symposium we missed:
http://100yearsofjealousy.weebly.com/
ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Kalli, I went searching for answers and found this book, but not much on it though. Have you seen it before?Proust, the One, and the Many
Identity and Difference in A la recherche du temps perdu..."
Thank you for this, Reem... may be you should change your name to SH.
:)
This looks fascinating... I had been surprised that I had not seen yet a book focusing on issues of identity.... But we should tap ourselves in the shoulder, since we have referred to, in this site, to the possible influences on Alain Robbe-Grillet and his Jealousy
Thank you very much for this find.
Here is the link to the GR database. Proust, the One, and the Many: Identity and Difference in a la Recherche Du Temps Perdu. And I have added it to the Group's Library. Unfortunately, it looks like another expensive academic book... what a shame.. Those of you who have
Kalliope wrote: "ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Kalli, I went searching for answers and found this book, but not much on it though. Have you seen it before?Proust, the One, and the Many
Identity and Difference in..."
Thanks Kalliope. I'm glad you find the links I find interesting. I had the same thought, that perhaps those who can tap into an academic database can search and report back on the book.
"Kalliope wrote: "On Odette....All this about Odette reminds me of Colette's definition of a prostitute: a person who, in any transaction, arranges to receive more than he/she gives.
Oh, yes: Book Portrait and Kalliope. I must say I think you're on the money about Mme Putbus' maid. The Narrator's excitement about her stems from two facts: that she is "easy" and that she goes with both men and women.
The Year of Reading Proust
Books mentioned in this topic
The Aspern Papers (other topics)Proust, the One, and the Many: Identity and Difference in A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu (other topics)
Jealousy (other topics)
Fortuny, Proust y los Ballets Rusos (other topics)
La vida es sueño (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Guillermo De Osma (other topics)Eric Karpeles (other topics)
Eleonora Marangoni (other topics)
Guillermo De Osma (other topics)
And about the name Robert, when..."
Yes, the Santois/Sans toi/Santeuil is interesting... which also leads me to think that I will want to read at some point Jean Santeuil.
And no, it has not been mentioned before that Odette was a first cousin of Jupien, even if he says notre lecteur plus instruit saurait que... (p. 337). GF has a note on this "C'est la première nouvelle que le narrater nous en donne". It does not say whether this will be further developed later.
And there is another glitch in his saying that later on we will learn how Gilberte after becoming the Marquise de Saint-Loup will also become Duchesse de Guermantes.
.. et bientôt après, comme on le verra, Duchesse de Guermantes). p. 333. The footnote says: "on n'assistera pas dans le roman à cette dernière transformation."
This whole conversation about what happens to the two new marriages seems to me to be narrated with the foot on the accelerator. We see Jupien's niece/daugher marrying and dying fast. And also the whole transformation of Saint-Loup and of Gilberte is certainly narrated very fast as well... And part of it interspersed with the train trip...