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message 1: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
I'm really hoping I don't fall behind here, but I'm worried about getting all my coursework done for this week.


message 2: by Seawood (new)

Seawood Can you break it down into "what's due when" and prioritise that way?

I'm worried about getting enough time in to actually read Homer, but I'm nearly half-way through Little Brother now so hopefully that pressure will ease off. Not quite worked out the workflow for Science Writing yet but I plan to deal with that tomorrow.

I suppose it may be considered cheating but it is possible to c&p the text of the Greek & Roman quiz into a document, a little like an open-book exam. I had that open in front of me as I watched the lectures so that I was primed to look for the themes as he talked about them - and actually I've found I've retained far more information than I would have done by taking notes or just listening.

Another trick is to download the subtitle files for videos - you can put them on a phone or e-reader to read or revise when you have a moment; I get my Kindle to read to me if I can't get near a screen to watch. It's not as good as an actual lecture as you don't get the pictures, but it's still a way of getting the material at your convenience. If I could just get MP3s to listen to whilst I run, that would be awesome. :)


message 3: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Those are some good suggestions! I was going to try going back over the lectures today but I am having some attention problems due to lack of sleep the last few days. :) Nothing like dozing off in the middle of a lecture!


message 4: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
I'll try to begin reading soon, but also have to somehow fit in personal pleasure reading that I avoided (but intended to do) due to the assignments.


message 5: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Xiri wrote: "I'll try to begin reading soon, but also have to somehow fit in personal pleasure reading that I avoided (but intended to do) due to the assignments."

I have found that the assignments cut into my personal pleasure time.


message 6: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Jute wrote: "Xiri wrote: "I'll try to begin reading soon, but also have to somehow fit in personal pleasure reading that I avoided (but intended to do) due to the assignments."

I have found that the assignment..."


Yup. Even though I certainly enjoyed most of the readings.


message 7: by Emy (new)

Emy (EmyPT) | 88 comments Mod
Re Little Brother - I'm finding it a much faster read than any of the others. I was really worried about getting it read in time since I didn't finish LHoD until Tuesday, and the same for the Martian Chronicles... Phew! Just got to watch all my Gamification videos, rewatch the Mythology ones so I can do the quiz, and I'm up to date!


message 8: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Emy wrote: "Re Little Brother - I'm finding it a much faster read than any of the others. I was really worried about getting it read in time since I didn't finish LHoD until Tuesday, and the same for the Marti..."

Yay! Well, yes, it was a quick read, but I also found it somewhat less... pleasing and deep than other reads. But that's just me, who am I to complain.


message 9: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Yes, seen it. It is a decent cyberpunk adventure story with mostly Young Adult style, though - for those who prefer the action.

The intertextual references were neat, though :) And I dug geeky ones, too.


message 10: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Besides, speaking of your review - it's clearly a near-future SF / cyberpunk (well, more like postcyberpunk, but that's almost splitting the hair...).

There are mentionings or hints that it is certainly further in the future than our days - but just how far, is beyond me. Are ecomobiles already available? Also, various notes regarding a clearly different society structure than one of current days notes at least an alternate society, and that can be considered SF-enough.


message 11: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I just noticed that I somehow quoted the wrong post. I meant to quote you saying "Yay! Well, yes, it was a quick read, but I also found it somewhat less... pleasing and deep than other reads. But t..."

Exactly... if this "was" the reality, well, then I'd rather not live in the USA to say the very least. As of now, most of the technology is not yet available and far, far less tyrannic, to put it nicely.

Well I don't know, it was the word used. There are also hints to future software, hardware and so on. I was also curious about the "gay rights" parts, because it was not much expanded upon.


message 12: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
This article about near-future works might help as well.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-...


message 13: by Seawood (new)

Seawood Matt wrote: "The US government can detain without trial or publicity, and the executive branch has asserted the right to assassinate US citizens without trial, warrant, or indictment. "

Similar draconian nonsense in the UK. I've lost track of where it's all up to in terms of the length of detention without trial as it keeps getting bounced around parliament, but it is pretty much as dark as Doctorow implies. He is also correct on the CCTV aspect: over the last ten years I've come to assume that I will be on film pretty much anywhere I go - and I live in the provincial North, not London. I mean, much of it's poor-quality loss control/theft prevention stuff but that doesn't make it any the less applicable. I also presume any form of communication and any non-cash transaction has the potential to be monitored, however unlikely that is. I'm almost grateful I can't afford to travel much; the security theatre would probably make my head explode.

Ecomobiles - basically the Prius and a few other models - are available here and we're seeing more charging points appear but they're still pretty expensive; more than an average family car.


I think the critical thing Little Brother is getting at is that a lot of this tech exists already - the tunnel passes, phone tapping (witness our delightful Leveson Enquiry), the RFIDs; and there's social pressure to be linked in and using the "Fast Pass" tracking all over the place. Hell, my 6yo daughter's school uses fingerprint hardware for their library (we said no to hers on principle, she has a barcode ticket instead).

What hasn't happened so far but could is the linking together of all of those things. Some of it is - air travel, for example - but on a scale where it can track every person day to day, it's not there yet. Or at least, we the public have no evidence of it as yet. All it needs is a big enough excuse to make it overt, and thank heavens the London bombings weren't it. Doctorow uses the pretext of the Bay Bridge as the catalyst for a technologically-backed police state, effectively. What was done with paperwork and Stasi behind the Iron Curtain can be done with silicon and computer algorithms now.


What did you want to know about the equality aspect, Xiri?


message 14: by Xiri (last edited Sep 27, 2012 10:15AM) (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Caroline wrote: "I think the critical thing Little Brother is getting at is that a lot of this tech exists already - the tunnel passes, phone tapping (witness our delightful Leveson Enquiry), the RFIDs; and there's social pressure to be linked in and using the "Fast Pass" tracking all over the place. Hell, my 6yo daughter's school uses fingerprint hardware for their library (we said no to hers on principle, she has a barcode ticket instead).

What hasn't happened so far but could is the linking together of all of those things. Some of it is - air travel, for example - but on a scale where it can track every person day to day, it's not there yet. Or at least, we the public have no evidence of it as yet. All it needs is a big enough excuse to make it overt, and thank heavens the London bombings weren't it. Doctorow uses the pretext of the Bay Bridge as the catalyst for a technologically-backed police state, effectively. What was done with paperwork and Stasi behind the Iron Curtain can be done with silicon and computer algorithms now.


What did you want to know about the equality aspect, Xiri? "


I thought the realism and warning was the point of the book, as pointed out in the introduction and appendixes...

Well, for one - how far have the rights gone? Are they as they the same as they are at the moment, or had they been pushed further, e.g. equal marriage and so on? The narrator seems very casual about the so-called "gay scene". I actually speculated he was bisexual based upon certain hints, but that's just me.


message 15: by Xiri (last edited Sep 27, 2012 09:20AM) (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
As for the hints of future... 9/11 is remembered, but somewhat distantly. Windows Vista is considered old. There is a fourth model of Xbox out. Bear in mind, it was published in the 2007. Alternate Reality Games seem to be common, though my assumption is that currently, they are still pretty rare outside the dedicated players.

It is just a really, really realistic future that could happen. In my eyes, that is. And if that's not creepy... keyword being "near-future". Not "distant-future".

P.S. There is even such a thing as a so-called Mundane SF movement. You also may have a look at this list of subgenres.


message 16: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Garr - I meant in the novel... it is at least several years in the future. *"Are they the same as they are at the moment?"


message 17: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Well, speaking as someone who has always been interested in 'fringe' things, I've always been conscious that at any time if things got linked up enough I could be subjected to persecution. Yes, I know that we don't burn witches nowadays, but I haven't a lot of faith that humanity won't return to the persecution of fringe/minority groups. And the 'connectedness' of nowadays just makes that all too easy.


message 18: by Xiri (last edited Sep 27, 2012 10:45AM) (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
The book is also seriously related to "1984" - it is one of those works that may not appear to be SF, but actually are. SF is not just distant-future and highly advanced tech. I have not read the latter yet, but from what little I have read about it, the themes on control and such are strikingly alike. Bear that the time is not given, but it is clearly further away in time than the present - or if it is present, it is alternate history, which, too, is a SF subgenre.

Also, another note: Marcus notes he was playing Dreamcast games when he was 7 or so. He is 17 at the time of the novel. At the very least, according to sources, the console was introduced in 1999 in the USA - let's say he was 7 at 1999, at the time of 9/11; 10 years forward makes it 2009 at the very least then, hence near-future. If one assumed, though, that Dreamcast was not new at the time he was playing them, then it sets the timeline even further ahead.


message 19: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Jute wrote: "Well, speaking as someone who has always been interested in 'fringe' things, I've always been conscious that at any time if things got linked up enough I could be subjected to persecution. Yes, I ..."

Which fringes? If you do not mind, of course.


message 20: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Xiri wrote: "Jute wrote: "Well, speaking as someone who has always been interested in 'fringe' things, I've always been conscious that at any time if things got linked up enough I could be subjected to persecut..."

Well, lots of them throughout my life. I generally don't talk about things too much because of how people's perception changes. But I'll mention two :)

I am physically disabled. I have a neuromuscular disease and I can no longer walk very well. So that's one that's not my choice.

But on the other hand I'm married to a man that is much, much younger than me. And that one is very much my choice. :)


message 21: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Jute wrote: "Xiri wrote: "Jute wrote: "Well, speaking as someone who has always been interested in 'fringe' things, I've always been conscious that at any time if things got linked up enough I could be subjecte..."

Well, I hope he deserves you and supports you well :)


message 22: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Well, I think it's a question of what I've done in my life that could possibly mean I was worthy of him. :) He's amazing. He was my friend first for a number of years so he knew everything about me. All those things you might not bring up to a 'date' or possible romantic partner...if that makes any sense?

So I've never had to be anyone other than who I really am with him. He knew the good, the bad and the quirky!

We've been together as a couple for 4 years (married now for 2) and friends for about another 3 before that.


message 23: by Seawood (new)

Seawood If you look closely enough we all have things that could be "suspect" to other groups of people. I'm an out-and-out atheist; in the past I've hung out on Pagan message boards and read Tarot. Either of those could get me shot in many parts of the world. A girl was murdered only two towns over from me for "looking Goth" just five years ago.

If you dig back a ways, you'll find my name on a list of people who took a qualification to work with experimental animals. I never actually did, but I did the training (which was mostly about how to care for them). Just working in the same building as the primate lab could have got me stalked or hurt - we actually had a 2hr lecture from the police before beginning the course, telling us to vary our routes home, check under cars, etc.

And those are just the things I'm completely open about!


Anyway. I'm not sure we can see how far equality has gone in Little Brother - here "equal marriage" is quite the political football at the moment but hopefully it'll go through soon. I think Scotland has already done it and where they lead on human rights we tend to follow, once we can get the bishops to shut up and the right-wingers to work out how they can make money out of it. I didn't see any mention of that in the book.

I'm not really picking up on Marcus as Bi but I'm just at 63% so far and he's rather involved with his girlfriend, lol. Teenagers IME these days tend to be a fair bit more fluid about it than my generation was; it took us til we got away from home to experiment and become ourselves. I really don't recall much in the way of Bi rolemodels as I was growing up, and that was in the middle of all the "AIDS IS A GAY DISEASE" propaganda anyway. Right now I don't see anything pointing either way for him but I will look out for it.


message 24: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Jute wrote: "Well, I think it's a question of what I've done in my life that could possibly mean I was worthy of him. :) He's amazing. He was my friend first for a number of years so he knew everything about..."

Lots of joy to you two!


message 25: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Caroline wrote: "If you look closely enough we all have things that could be "suspect" to other groups of people. I'm an out-and-out atheist; in the past I've hung out on Pagan message boards and read Tarot. Either..."

Could be :) Perhaps my own err "slash" background pointed me to that direction, I thought it was curious that he kinda knew what gay men would look / behave like (in that area - unless it's common knowledge; my bad, then), his listening to a gay (r something like that) station... certain words at the end of the book...

Must confess the "involved" part was not exactly my favorite read of the book, though I do like some erotica :-s Personal preferences, ahem, I guess I prefer a more "idealized" view, not down and dirty...


message 26: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "Gay culture is huge in San Francisco. It's not too far to suggest that it's the center of gay culture in the United States - it's impossible to live there without being involved."

Yes, but it is mostly male gay culture. :) I live in San Jose, CA (the heart of Silicon Valley) and not far from SF.

California as a whole is definitely more liberal than most places. However it's highly ironic that our state struck down the law allowing gay marriage. We are truly a state of divergence...we have highly liberal areas and highly conservative ones. I'm originally from the Midwest (Illinois) and other than how expensive it is here, I would never want to live anywhere else.

I love the weather, I love the diversity but I don't love the expense! :)


message 27: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "Gay culture is huge in San Francisco. It's not too far to suggest that it's the center of gay culture in the United States - it's impossible to live there without being involved."

Well, there was certain part, that struck me as... intimate. Especially, since it was "sex" radio show and stuff. And the ending. Darryl and what Marcus wants to tell him, but does not.


message 28: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Speaking of the pleasure reading, though, I was / am awfully out of habit of reading, so... courses help, a lot :) Hopefully I will shrink my to be read list quite a bit this year ;) Even if many are re-reads, actually...


message 29: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
If anyone's enrolled in any of the University of Washington courses, they just made a "brilliant" decision to no longer allow downloading the videos (feel free to imagine swearing here). They can still be downloaded if one uses helper apps or add-ons, but otherwise, it's a bleeping decision, as far as I'm concerned.


message 30: by Seawood (new)

Seawood Xiri wrote: "If anyone's enrolled in any of the University of Washington courses, they just made a "brilliant" decision to no longer allow downloading the videos (feel free to imagine swearing here). They can s..."
That won't last. Half the reason people download videos is due to slow connections, and that's a vast chunk of the world. If they're going to sell themselves as truly international they have to cope with the world as it is.

WRT "gay culture" I think it's just more visible in some parts of the world and San Fran in particular. Doctorow lives at least some of the time in London, which is fairly open. My halls of residence were 5mins walk from the "gay village" in Manchester which is very popular for nightlife regardless of orientation, and that was nearly 20 years ago - nobody really thought anything of it, it just was.


message 31: by Emy (new)

Emy (EmyPT) | 88 comments Mod
Xiri wrote: "If anyone's enrolled in any of the University of Washington courses, they just made a "brilliant" decision to no longer allow downloading the videos (feel free to imagine swearing here). They can s..."

Not good! The whole point of these courses, to me, is accessiblity. Not every part of the world has good internet connections, so downloading for offline viewing is the only viable option for some. Hopefully they'll reverse the decision since it's rather exclusive instead of the stated inclusivity premise!


message 32: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
If you're using Firefox or other alike browser, there are add-ons that enable downloads. Otherwise I guess I can survive with slides... they were advertising their paid courses, too. Ok, I guess my temper got the best of me :-s

I should really catch up with other stuff, I signed up for edx and other umm places too. Today I decided I will audit 'everything' - except for getting materials and watching / reading them - if it's too much. Should be up to History and Poetry some day soon :)


message 33: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I'm just "auditing" everything. I absolutely loathed the peer review process and won't be part of it in any open course."

Understandable. I do try to write essays on literature though, since it at least lets me practice the English language :) And I get to read some nice ones, too, once in a while. Thankfully.

Have you tried quizzes or other such assignments in any other if have any more enrolled?


message 34: by Seawood (new)

Seawood Emy wrote: "Not good! The whole point of these courses, to me, is accessiblity. Not every part of the world has good internet connections, so downloading for offline viewing is the only viable option for some. Hopefully they'll reverse the decision since it's rather exclusive instead of the stated inclusivity premise! "

There will be an outcry. At least one of the courses I'm on has already revoked the "in-video" quizzes and taken them out of the marking scheme because so many people said they had to download to get over a dodgy connection. Hell, I've had good broadband for years and my router's been playing up something chronic this week, I've had to download them all myself.

Coursea *will* monetize before long. It does irritate me when people on the forums tell others to "stop complaining because we're getting it for free". Actually, no, we're unpaid beta testers - Coursera are doing a vast crowdsourcing experiment and when they've tuned up these courses they'll start selling them.

Personally I really like beta testing to a wide audience. I got in as a Beta on fitocracy.com and it's gone from strength to strength through listening to the community - now I happily pay a subscription because it's so full of awesome even though I could have it for free! I think it's a fair exchange of time for service - but in no way are we getting "something for nothing". Eventually *someone* will has to pay for all this - future consumers - so if Coursera want to make money in the future they have to listen to their testers now or they won't have a market to sell to.


message 35: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Caroline wrote: "Emy wrote: "Not good! The whole point of these courses, to me, is accessiblity. Not every part of the world has good internet connections, so downloading for offline viewing is the only viable opti..."

Yup, they should. I like edx and Udacity's approach, where, if I understand it correctly, only the certificates cost. I also kinda prefer a self-paced course, though for a lazybones like me deadlines are a must... edx has much better quality subtitles, too - but everything is online, so far, and mostly techy stuff.

I guess I'll use all of the chances while I can...

Some instructors paid a lot of attention to the students - Al from Poetry is "very" attentive! Heck, he himself said they are running red, but he enjoys the opportunity. The Statistics course is a mess, but I love the teacher's way, though at first he was a little too annoying :) And I do not exactly get all the baseball references, but I bet not many would get our fascination with basketball either ;) Andrew Ng from Machine Learning is awesome too, I even understand some of the theory. Sociology teacher was great too - though I confess I learned more about the USA than the Sociology, I believe.


message 36: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Caroline wrote: "Emy wrote: "Not good! The whole point of these courses, to me, is accessiblity. Not every part of the world has good internet connections, so downloading for offline viewing is the only viable opti..."

P.S. Speaking of Fitocracy - is it useful for someone who has never exercised at all and let's say wants to try something akin to Pilates to gently get more fit? *cough cough*


message 37: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
On the nice side, I finally caught up with this week's "Securing Digital Democracy" - listening to the professor's err adventure in India when he was nearly deported and how he and co hacked the District of Columbia's Internet voting system (as a test) was almost hilarious, if it was not so sad that the creators made so many errors while implementing it.


message 38: by Seawood (new)

Seawood Xiri wrote: "P.S. Speaking of Fitocracy - is it useful for someone who has never exercised at all and let's say wants to try something akin to Pilates to gently get more fit? *cough cough* "

It will appeal if you are:
a) open-minded about trying different forms of fitness

b) prepared to admit lifting weights heavier than your handbag is an extremely effective form of weight loss and fitness building

c) unlikely to get discouraged by low pointage for cardio exercise until you get up into decent distances (running 5k doesn't get you much but 10k is respectable; likewise six slow laps of the pool gets you nothing much but swim 2k in an hour and you'll score well)

d) a fiend for scoring points and motivated by levelling up and unlocking achivements

e) willing to get involved in the community - the social aspect is key for accountability and maintaining your motivation. You will meet some awesome people.

I have a feeling it may suit you if you're happy to try new things. I started out last year very lightly with yoga, silly dance vids, that sort of thing. Saw all the lifting/running/swimming quests, nabbed my husband's weights, entered a few events. I've gone from being unable to lift my 20lb daughter onto my hip without pain to lifting her 50lb big sister over my head, running 5k and swimming 4k (that's the equivalent of a 10k run, btw). All my pain has gone and I'm losing weight very nicely. Also I became absolutely passionate about open water swimming and have met some folks who are both on Fito and swim at the same place I do - they're already helping with my training. :) I can't decide if I want to try a triathlon or focus on endurance swimming, though.

Started a blog in August - trifleambitious.blogspot.com, lots of babble about how important Fito is to me there.


message 39: by Xiri (last edited Sep 28, 2012 03:59AM) (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Caroline wrote: "Xiri wrote: "P.S. Speaking of Fitocracy - is it useful for someone who has never exercised at all and let's say wants to try something akin to Pilates to gently get more fit? *cough cough* "

It wi..."


Umm, I need to gain weight, mostly muscle :-s

I like achievements and quests, though... it's just the lack of motivation and slacking that are kicking me.


message 40: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
I've actually begun blogging here to make myself to act upon certain stuff last month or so, not much to see there, though :)


message 41: by Seawood (last edited Sep 28, 2012 04:15AM) (new)

Seawood Xiri wrote: "Umm, I need to gain weight, mostly muscle :-s"

Lift heavy stuff. Eat protein. Gaining is not too hard. :) We quite often lift stuff whilst watching Coursera vids - removes the "no time" excuse on both counts!


message 42: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
I think I will do a warm-up now, since that's the extent of my "prowess" thus far :) Well, if cheese counts, I sure eat enough of that. trying to become a vegetarian, you see, but sure need to balance the diet - a lot.


message 43: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Caroline I think that's fantastic what you are doing!

I have to find some exercise I can do. Swimming would work if I liked it..but it's not my thing. I'm going to try yoga if I can find an instructor willing to work with me.

I used to be so active.... ahh well...


message 44: by Seawood (new)

Seawood :) The key to sustaining exercise is finding your joy, I think. I've always been a swimmer, but it does get boring, thrashing up and down a pool. If you can try open water, do, it's the most amazing experience. And do keep an open mind...I never thought I would like running, but I gave it a whirl as cross-training to help my breath control for swimming. Turns out I get ridiculous runner's highs off it.

I'll just leave this invite link here...:)
http://ftcy.me/Tz5YaK


message 45: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I'm just "auditing" everything. I absolutely loathed the peer review process and won't be part of it in any open course."

I had no strong feelings about the peer review process before doing my first class...now I can completely understand why you might loath it.


message 46: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Introduction to Mathematical Thinking is absolutely worth auditing :) The enthusiastic teacher even convinced me to actually give a try to the quizzes at the least - and, by the way, he also made in-lecture quizzes available for those who are not streaming!


message 47: by Seawood (new)

Seawood I have watched all the videos and done all my homeworks for this week, tra lalalala :) Can't decide whether I should read the next set of Homer or get my old textbooks out and brush up on that for Genetic & Evolution next week. :D

Maybe I'll just read something fun instead!


message 48: by Jute (new)

Jute | 139 comments Mod
Seawood wrote: "I have watched all the videos and done all my homeworks for this week, tra lalalala :) Can't decide whether I should read the next set of Homer or get my old textbooks out and brush up on that for ..."

That's awesome! I'm still pretty far behind. I have to decide if I'm going to do the writing assignment for History or not.


message 49: by Seawood (new)

Seawood :) to be fair I have spent every evening since Saturday sat on my butt, since I'm so tired and wobbly with this virus...it would be a different story if I'd been swimming and running as usual!


message 50: by Xiri (new)

Xiri | 187 comments Mod
Seawood wrote: "I have watched all the videos and done all my homeworks for this week, tra lalalala :) Can't decide whether I should read the next set of Homer or get my old textbooks out and brush up on that for ..."

Will the folder be added soon? The Design one might be neat too, but I have no idea yet :) I certainly won't be writing for History, though... Too many left yet to catch up with and so on, I guess I will have to audit Mythology too - oh well :)


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