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Things Fall Apart (The African Trilogy, #1)
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Engl. I(6th) > Bride price

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Tierra Encantada | 76 comments Mod
What is Okonkwo's attitude towards his daughter Ezinma? Bride price is the converse of dowry. Common in many African cultures, it involves the bridegroom's family paying substantial wealth in cash or goods for the privilege of marrying a young woman. Do you think such a custom would tend to make women more valuable than a dowry system where the woman's family must offer the figts to the bridegroom's family? how do you think such a system would affect the women themselves?


message 2: by Kai (new)

Kai | 33 comments Okonkowo loves his daughter but he thinks she should have been a boy because "she has the right spirit".I'm not sure I like either system, because either way you're still 'buying" someone, which I think is despicable. I am not sure how the woman would feel, because maybe they think the system is normal, and is how it should be. I don't like it though. I wouldn't like to feel like I was being bought like a piece of property.


message 3: by Isaiah (last edited Sep 21, 2012 07:40PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Isaiah Armijo | 28 comments Kai wrote: "Okonkowo loves his daughter but he thinks she should have been a boy because "she has the right spirit".I'm not sure I like either system, because either way you're still 'buying" someone, which I ..."

I can agree with Kai on this one, but I do have something to add. Okonkwo does love her but in mind he thinks about how well she would do if she was a boy. She is compared to bubbling palm wine on page 79. I do how ever have a different view on theses systems. I think that by giving the woman's family money and objects that you are showing that you deserve her, and that you are willing to make a long turn commitment to her. This does have a problem because to me it would feel as if i was being sold. Just like Kai said.


message 4: by Xavier (last edited Sep 21, 2012 02:01PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Xavier Benni | 26 comments I agree with Kai, Okonkwo is very fond of his daughter, although he does not show it, he wishes she would be a boy because she does not show the same characteristics her brother shows from their grandfather. I also agree with Kai on the subject of the bride price because i believe it is demeaning to women. But Okonkwo's closest friend said that a man should not have a wife he can not pay for. I think this means that the women should be prized and fought for and this is a sign of that women are valuable and are meant to be loved.


message 5: by Zane (last edited Sep 22, 2012 11:54AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Zane Flannery | 27 comments Isaiah wrote: "Kai wrote: "Okonkowo loves his daughter but he thinks she should have been a boy because "she has the right spirit".I'm not sure I like either system, because either way you're still 'buying" someo..."

I agree about disagreeing with kai. but I would also like to add that women would not feel like property because it's all they know. My dad says you can't miss what you don't have. yes now they might feal like property but the women also get a huge party. maby in the book the women would feel like property, but i doubt it.


Marianne Lara | 26 comments Xavier wrote: "I agree with Kai, Okonkwo is very fond of his daughter, although he does not show it, he wishes she would be a boy because she does not show the same characteristics her brother shows from their g..."

I agree with Kai and Xavier. Okonkwo is actually very fond of his daughter but he doesn't really show it. Although when he asked her to bring him coldwater, he gave her a bit of fish. Okonkwo thinks Enzinma should've been a boy, saying that "she has the right spirit" page 66. I don't like the bride price system women are not objects and should not be treated as such. For the most part it's not an appealing system, But, even though bride price is pretty much buying a person, it still shows that the person paying is willing to pay a large amount for the bride which means he probably values her. It also shows the brides family he deserves her. I still think it's bad though. I think for the most part that they think it's normal and nothing to complain about, it's what they've been raised with.


message 7: by Sarai (new) - added it

Sarai Cisneros | 27 comments Well Okonkwo loves his daughter. But he thinks she would be better off as a boy. He thinks she has the spirit in her to be a good smart strong and be really respected by others. But I dont like their system. If that was me I wouldn't like to feel like someones property. But I guess they are used to it because of their culture.


message 8: by Kathryn (new) - added it

Kathryn (kathycat) | 22 comments Xavier wrote: "I agree with Kai, Okonkwo is very fond of his daughter, although he does not show it, he wishes she would be a boy because she does not show the same characteristics her brother shows from their g..."

I agree with all of this statement. Ezinma is I believe Okonkwo's favorite child, this proven on page 108 when Ekwefi finds that Okonkwo chased after Ezinma too when Chielo took her. He probably wishes he had her as a son instead of Nwoye.
The bride price idea of the Ibo is better than the dowry system of historical Europe. With a dwory people are being paid to take a bride. This way the women is being paid for which increases the idea that women should be valued. Either way is bad though; women are not property to be bought and sold.


message 9: by Kristen (new)

Kristen | 24 comments Marianne wrote: "Xavier wrote: "I agree with Kai, Okonkwo is very fond of his daughter, although he does not show it, he wishes she would be a boy because she does not show the same characteristics her brother sho..."

I agree with Marianne, Kai and Xavier. If there is a price on an object it shows that the object is for sale. The bride price shows that a woman is for sale like an object. On the other hand a bride price can also signify how much a suitor values a potential bride by showing how much he is willing to give up for her. I think that Okonkwo loves his daughter Ezinma ,but also sees her as a way to gain power over Umoufia through whoever she marries. He also wishes she had been born a boy because "she has the right spirit"(page 66).


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree with Marianne, basically Okonkwo loves his daughter Ezinma but he would much prefer if she was a boy because he has the right spirit for it and has none of the characteristics of her grandfather (like Nwoye was showing). I definitely think that the groom's family paying for the privilege of marrying a young women would make women more valuable because the men would be offering their wealth and prove that they truely want to be with his bride. But when the brides family must pay the grooms family, I think the women feel as if they have to deserve and work up to being with a man which makes them feel a lot more useless as to when the grooms paying to be with her.


message 11: by Saul (new) - rated it 3 stars

Saul Saiz | 17 comments Kai wrote: "Okonkowo loves his daughter but he thinks she should have been a boy because "she has the right spirit".I'm not sure I like either system, because either way you're still 'buying" someone, which I ..."

I agree with kai its true that okonkowo is very fond of his daughter although it doesnt really show it. He clearly says that it would of been better if her daughter was a boy because he would have the right spirit for it and jas no characharestics of her grandfather. I dont like the bride price becuse women should be treated the same as men. I dont think its good becuase its basically buying someone
. But for the most part I think they have to stick with it beccuase they were born in that kind of religion.


message 12: by Molly (new)

Molly Malone | 27 comments Vanessa wrote "Okonkwo loves his daughter Ezinma but he would much prefer if she was a boy because he has the right spirit for it and has none of the characteristics of her grandfather (like Nwoye was showing)."

I agree with Vanessa. Okonkwo was very found of Ezinma. He would have preferred her to be a boy because as it states on page 66 "If Ezinma had been a boy i would have been happier. She has the right spirit" Even though Okonkwo does not show it he is quite found of his daughter Ezinma. I personaly disagree with the fact that in African American culture women are basically auctioned of to the highest bitter. Women are not just something you can buy, you have to earn their love and respect. I think that such a custom would tend to make men think that women are something that you can buy. I think such a system would make women more valuable than the dowry system, i think this because the dowry system does not even give the bride a choice in this system women are just objects, they have no say. In African American culture they do not really have a say but it is more civil. I still do not agree with either of these systems of matrimony. Such system will give women no self esteem. It would affect the women themselves by not giving them a chance to stand up for themselves and find true love. The women back in the day when there was arranged marriages had no common sense, self esteem, or dignity. Women need all of those things to have the slightest chance of surviving alone.


message 13: by Alistair (new) - added it

Alistair Fene | 16 comments Sarai wrote: "Well Okonkwo loves his daughter. But he thinks she would be better off as a boy. He thinks she has the spirit in her to be a good smart strong and be really respected by others. But I dont like th..."
I agree with her because, that dose not seem fair to have someone own you like your materialism. Almost like you an action figure of something in that category.


message 14: by Benhanna (last edited Sep 25, 2012 09:27PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Benhanna | 27 comments Molly wrote: "Vanessa wrote "Okonkwo loves his daughter Ezinma but he would much prefer if she was a boy because he has the right spirit for it and has none of the characteristics of her grandfather (like Nwoye ..."
I agree with molly that Okonkwo likes his daughter but wishes she was a boy pg66. yes i do think that briedprices dose make women more valuable. As soon as some thing has a price it becomes a object that you can own, so in a sense the men own the women, even though the oracle of the hills said "You can not own what belongs to the earth" the men still act like women belong to them. i also agree with molly about how thous systems are bad and lame because they treat the women like objects and it is almost Im posible to have any confidence and feal good about your self when people treat you like an object.


message 15: by Juliana (new)

Juliana | 15 comments Sarai wrote: "Well Okonkwo loves his daughter. But he thinks she would be better off as a boy. He thinks she has the spirit in her to be a good smart strong and be really respected by others. But I dont like th..."

I agree that Onkonkwo loves his daughter as for him saying she has a male spirit this might just be because of her personality. Throughout the book she is portrayed as a strong female figure. She does all her womanly duties but still acts as if she had more authority then she does. The women probably have no opinion in this matter because this is the tradition. Scene it is a tradition the women know nothing else and would not question it as much. There may be some who think its wrong but they would be over looked.


message 16: by Tristan (new)

Tristan Sena | 26 comments Okonkwo loves ezinma but he thinks she would have been better off as a boy because she as the spirit of man. The women would be more valuable but you could think that they are less valuable because they are being bought and sold, although it's tradition in their culture it still seems wrong I think the woman should have a choice in the matter also. I think they are ok with it because it's normal in their culture and that's what they grew up around.


message 17: by Mona (new)

Mona Chavarria | 29 comments I agree with most of everyone's posts. But there are some that I do not agree on . One party would be woman feeling like property , that was the only thing they knew. Even in present day woman and sometimes like property. But it doesn't mean they feel happy about it. I also agree that Okonkwo is very fond of his daughter but believes her spirit is a males spirit.


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