The Prisoner of Heaven (The Cemetery of Forgotten Books, #3) The Prisoner of Heaven discussion


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The Angel's Game & The Prisoner of Heaven

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Susan 1 view
The Prisoner of Heaven & The Angel's Game (This will have spoilers). (edit)
Susan 0 minutes ago
Okay, I read The Prisoner of Heaven,
and have been saying that it ties up loose ends with and The Shadow of the Wind and The Angel's Game. Then I reread both TSOTW and TAG, which I was having trouble remembering. Yes, TPOH does tie up the loose ends of TSOTW, but . . . I just finished rereading TAG, and what the . . . ??? The only possible conclusion is that David Martin is a paranoid schizophrenic. Any thoughts?


Taunya Orlando Thank you..I'm so confused. Finished Shadow and just about to finish Angel but if these books are sequential then does Senor Semepre rise from the dead? David as a schizo would make sense.


António Matos Taunya, The Angel's Game is a prequel to The Shadow of The Wind, there's no need for anyone to rise from the grave.


Susan Taunya, there are two Senor Semperes. In the Angel's Game it is the father, in The Shadow of the wind and The Prisoner of Heaven, Senor Sempere is the first Senor Sempere son, and the father of Daniel Sempere. (The two Senor Semperes' first names are never given.)


Taunya Orlando Thanks! I finished and figured it all out. Don't know why I was thinking it came after Shadow. Although after Angel's Game I would not be surprised if someone rose from the grave!


message 6: by Scott (last edited Oct 29, 2012 10:55AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Scott I made the same mistake as I was reading the stories, thinking that there was some sort of temporal shift until I rectified the dates. The Senior Sempere in the Angel's Game is Daniel, Jr's Great-Grandfather. Sempere Jr., also named Daniel is a contemporary of David Martin and the one whom married Isabella. Daniel and Isabella Sempere had a son named Daniel and it is Daniel Sempere Jr. we read about in the Shadow of the Wind.

The part I am still working out is David's mental stability. The Angel's Game is written from his perspective. At the very least David is an unreliable narrator. The first cracks for me was the cancer surgery and the house in which the Boss lived followed by the attempt at corroboration made by the arresting police inspector.

Was the Boss truly a supernatural being or just a figment of David's psychosis? The Inspector mentions to David that he notices that he has been wearing the angel pin since he met him. Which is just after the magic shop owner is killed and way before David finds the pin in the chest where he keeps his manuscript.

David doesn't respond - almost as if he cannot.

So is the Angel's Game played out solely in David’s mind or are we seeing him in the Prisoner of Heaven after he has a nervous breakdown brought on by the events he has written about? Could the nervous breakdown have happened due to the stress he endured while writing the penny dreadful stories and the events after are the delusions of his psychosis?

Any thoughts?


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

I am happy to read all these comments and to know I am not the only questioner out here. I loved SHADOW OF THE WIND, but think the last two have been disappointing. While the writing is quite good, the story has become convoluted and nonsensical.


Jean I have to agree with Stephanie. I have read SHADOW OF THE WIND two times and will read it again. It is an all time favorate of mine. His last two books could not compare. A great disappointment.


message 10: by Dave (new) - rated it 4 stars

Dave A book and author that defy easy categorization. Prisoner is a prequel, a continuation of an earlier story, a culmination of previous themes as well as a beginning of new themes and characters. As Zaphon has written himself, the trilogy can be read straight through or in any order. I would agree as long as one reads all three in order; if not, only Shadow and Angeles read as a stand alone. This however is a nit pick and ought not deter the reader looking for a new challenge and a willingness to commit to multiple reads by the same author. It is well worth the effort. Truth be told, I read Angels then Shadow and now Prisoner.

The Prisoner of Heaven is a two way bridge past and present, while at the same time posing questions for the future. It works best however, when read as a prequel centering on Fermin, Isabel and Daniel. There are tidbits galore however, as all principle characters reveal in more depth. As a great talent will, Zaphon leaves the reader wanting more. More clarity of the past and certainly more desire for future action in the lives of these deftly written characters.

The appearance of the prisoner of heaven as a character hearkens to Angels but is left for the reader to consider future potential conflict for all the characters. I will admit that the prisoners' appearance has me going back for a reread of Angels. It is a wise author who can so tantalize his readers. That said, Prisoner left me only half full, perhaps because of its' place in the time line. None the less, I expect future volumes to more then compensate.

For current Zaphon fans consider this read an interesting chance to take stock, answer lingering questions and desire for back filling the narrative. At the end you will find an open door to the future. For readers new to Zaphon give it a try you could be easily hooked. Wouldn't that be fun?


Mónica Remember there's coming a 4th book of this saga. There we could see more about David Martin and Daniel's revenge.

I don't think Martin is crazy, something really spooky has happened to him. I think that because Zafon has written a book called The Prince of Mist, and there is a character very likely to Andreas Corelli, Dr. Cain. I think they are the same person but with other name, and they are evil.

I loved Shadow if the Wind, and I loved even more The Angel's Game. The Prisoner of Heaven let me wanting more, but is good.

Did you read The Rose of Fire? It's the legend of how was created the Cemetery of Forgotten Books. It's really short so don't go with high expectations.


Jennifer Smith Susan wrote: "1 view
The Prisoner of Heaven & The Angel's Game (This will have spoilers). (edit)
Susan 0 minutes ago
Okay, I read The Prisoner of Heaven,
and have been saying that it ties up loose ends with a..."


I adored the Angel's Game, I won't believe that David didn't really meet Corelli, I just won't!


message 13: by Alexis (new)

Alexis Athanassiadis I am so sure that we could find Fermin Romero in the pages of The Angel's Game...! Any ideas?
Also there is a connection between the prison warden (Prisoner of Heaven) and a brief mention to a guy with the same name in The Shadow of the Wind. A very rich guy who helped Penelope's father. Could he be the father of the warden?


Jennifer Smith I won't accept that David is crazy...I loved the Angel's Game...


António Matos Rob wrote: "António wrote: "Taunya, The Angel's Game is a prequel to The Shadow of The Wind, there's no need for anyone to rise from the grave."
No surely not
TSOTW pub 2004
TAG 2008"

A prequel does not mean it was published before. It refers to it being set chronologically before TSOTW.


message 16: by Jay (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jay I don't think that the Angel's Game is merely a product of some form of mental illness in David Martin: Isabella is "real"; the Cemetery of Forgotten Books (as fantastical as it may seem) is "real." It's entirely possible that "the Boss" is in David's head, but the letters he receives from the Boss with the special stationery, the wax seal, the peculiar cursive writing in red ink seem real enough, don't they? Did he write them to himself? That same form of letter (written by Martin) appears also in the POH. There's an argument that can be made for his mental illness, I think, based on the fact, that he seems incapable of telling others (Isabella, Christina, the police, the Boss) the truth. These are all fascinating book, probably written with the purpose that some riddles are not to be answered. Reminds me of some of the lingering questions about "supernatural" characters in Perez-Reverte's The Club Dumas.


LindaJ^ Shadow is among the top 5 books I've ever read and I do not see it ever dropping out - it is the most amazing book I've ever read. While I enjoyed Angel's Game and Prisoner very much, they do not have the same magnificance and uniqueness of Shadow.


FittenTrim I've created a different thread with my idea of the answers

Speculation: the next character presumed dead yet is still alive

Have fun


message 19: by Natalia (last edited Apr 04, 2013 08:15PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Natalia the author said that we can read any of the three books in any order. I just finished prisoner of heaven, I really got confused ha ha i mean i think there needs to be a fourth book right?? he needs to get his revenge!


message 20: by the (new)

the  name I just finished The Angles Game, I read all the books like this, Shadow of the wind, then Prisoner of Heaven, now i finished reading Angles game..im also confused. In Prisoner isnt David Martin in Prison? when does he go to prison? i thought thats how Angels would end?? anyone figure this out?


message 21: by Jen (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jen Rob wrote: "I think we need a family tree!"

Totally agree. I can't tell you how many times I went scurrying along to Wiki or Zafon's website to try and figure out who is who and where & when they all fit in.


Laura David has a mental illnes that is causing terrible headaches, and eventualy drives him crazy. He does find Marlasca's book, who happens to have his same initials (but how hard can that be?). He creates his own world, around events that are truly happening in his life. He's in love with Cristina, who marries his best friend! But he chooses to face reality by creating events beyond his control. Though I don't know how to explain his wealth. He clearly didn't a dime before meeting Corelli.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm not really sure about David's fortune, after all, Isaac said there was no car waiting for him when he dropped the book for Daniel. Besides that, David was definitely a schizophrenic, I'm a psychologyst and I had to accept I was in denial, it doesn't matter how much Zafon uses magical realism plots. But of course the romantic side of me also thinks there was something else, I still refuse to accept that he imagined everything, despite all the facts depicted on TPoH (sorry for any possible grammar mistakes, English's not my first language)


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

Viviana wrote: "I'm not really sure about David's fortune, after all, Isaac said there was no car waiting for him when he dropped the book for Daniel. Besides that, David was definitely a schizophrenic, I'm a psyc..."
Your grammar's better than some people on here.


message 25: by Dan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Dan I'm very confused. Why is David Martini in prison? I've read The Shadow Of The Wind and Angel's Game and I don't remember him being in prison.


António Matos Dan wrote: "I'm very confused. Why is David Martini in prison? I've read The Shadow Of The Wind and Angel's Game and I don't remember him being in prison."

That's because he hadn't back then. The relevant part of The Prisioner of Heaven takes place after The Angel's Game, but before The Shadow of the Wind.


Matheus Gomes setti I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some kind of mental illness, and not everything in The Angel's Game is real. However, he couldn't have just made it all up, because Isabella did marry Mr. Sempere, his books did exist and the people killed in his story did die. Now, the confusing part is: How crazy was he? What was real and what wasn't?
When Inspector Grande told David that he had always worn the pin I was sure Corelli didn't exist. But then I started to think about it a little more. Firstly: The inspector wanted David arrested, so he could've just lied to him after hearing his story to see wether he would incriminate himself. Secondly: Marlasca existed, lived in the same house as David, was killed and his book existed and was in the Cemetery, so he was also requested to create a religion. That can mean they were either having the exact same hallucinations, which isn't quite likely, or weren't having hallucinations whatsoever. Also, Fermín tells Daniel that when David was going to be killed, "something" was there and rescued him. I honestly couldn't think about anyone who would be able to do such a thing but Corelli. So being an angel, the devil, or whatever he might be, I think Andreas Corelli exists somehow.
Another key point is David's arrestment. In The Prisoner Of Heaven, David is in prison as he writes The Angel's Game and when he discovers Isabella's death. While in The Angel's Game, he had escaped and lived in a house on the beach. At first I had thought that he went completely crazy after being arrested and in his mind, he really were in that house. But one thing kept coming up on my head: "But what about Dr. Sanahuja?", he was Cristina's doctor when she was in the hospice and was also in prison with David. So that didn't fit in my theory, until I realized this: He wrote the story in prison, so, since I don't see any reason to doubt David's story about Cristina's death, I think he could've simply changed the name of the real doctor for Sanahuja's, as in his time in jail, he was the only doctor close. And about the divergency between David's side of where he ended up being and the true place he was, my explanation is: He left the book to Daniel, and didn't want him to know, or he himself didn't want to acknowledge, the real condition he was, so he intentionally change the ending of his story.
So, thesis statement, David was schizophrenic, but Corelli did exist in someway. And David wasn't that insane after all.
Well, that's my opinion of course, I personally think that it will be all, or at least almost all, explained in the next book, which by the way, does anyone know when it's going to be released?


message 28: by Looh (new)

Looh Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some kind of mental illness, and not..."


The book was already released in spanish, it calls " The Spirits' Labirint" so it's not gonna take so long to be released in another languages :)

Besides all os these questions being pointed, a small detail got me really confused : In POH , Daniels goes to visit Isabella's grave, where we see that she was born in 1917 and died in 1939,which means she died at age 22, when Daniel was 4 years. Well, great, except for the detail that she had Daniel in 1935, at age 18, a little time after David has left Barcelona, because in TAG she had 17 years old. And in the TAG epilogue, Sempere son(Isabella's husband) sends a letter to David saying that after a few years of engagement, they married in 18th january of 1935... and to things get more confused, the TAG's epilogue happens in 1945, and David says that the events of the book has passed 15 years ago, which means in 1930. So I was thinking about... for me, there are only two possibilities: Or Zafón completely messed up the cronology and let this detail pass, or there is a real possibility that David is Daniel's father, because let's be honest, it's really obvious that the bond David and Isabella was not just about friendship. And since was David "writting" The Angel's game,he could certainly hide his romance with Isabella, to protect Daniel, the person that David wanted to read his story. What do you guys think? (Sorry about my english, not my 1st language)


Sansa Lannister Looh wrote: "Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some kind of mental ..."

I still think that David is Daniel's father. Timeline of the events is very complicated, so it is possible that Zafón made mistake. I found something interesting: in The Prisoner Of Heaven several times is mentioned that David loves to eat sugar cubes. In The Angel's Game Corelli also loves sugar cubes. So i think that Corelli does not physically exists, he is one (bad) part of David's personality. Also when some homeless people wanted to rape Isabella, David scared them but tomorrow they found them beaten up and David had injuries on hands from fight. This reminds me a lot on personality disorder depicted in Fight Club. Corelli is like Tyler Durden. But something strange definitely exist because in the end of The Angel's Game we found out that David does not age, and can't die, so he is cursed to constantly watch how Cristina is growing up and dying again and again. As for David in prison i think that they arested him because they think that he commited all unsolved murders. The Labyrinth of Spirits (fourth book in series), will be published in English in 2018 (this information is from authors official website). Sorry for possible grammar mistakes, English's not my maternal language.


message 30: by Looh (new)

Looh Daenerys wrote: "Looh wrote: "Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some ki..."


These similarities between Martín and Corelli are really intriguing, and somehow while reading TAG it reminded me a lot of Tyler Durden too! and in POH, I thought about two things: or Corelli kept haunting him, but nobody could really see(because, well, he's literally the demon and has some skills), so to Fermín and the others he was just some crazy dude, or Corelli is really another personality that was part of him.

Ps: I had the opportunity to read the last book (in Spanish), and well... So many thing to discuss! So sad that I can't still discuss here.


António Matos I had the opportunity to read the last book (in Spanish), and well... So many thing to discuss! So sad that I can't still discuss here. "

Yeah, I'm in the same boat (though I actually read the book in my native Portuguese).


message 32: by Looh (new)

Looh Yeah, I'm in the same boat (though I actually read the boo..."

Você é de Portugal? Eu sou brasileira :)


António Matos Sim, sou :) Não sabia que os livros do Záfon também eram populares no Brasil!
(se bem que, para ser sincero, não tenho muita noção do que é que "salta" o Atlântico e do que é que fica nesta margem)


João Anacleto costa Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some kind of mental illness, and not..."


There's just one thing you got wrong, the doctors in TAG and TPOH are not the same, the one in TAG is Sanjuán.

But the epilogue of TAG just doesn't add up with the TPOH, Martin clearly knows about Isabella's death in TPOH while in the epilogue of TAG he writes a letter do know how is she, I'm really confused about it. Hope the new book helps me understand this things.


message 35: by Lara (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lara Lux Lisbon wrote: "Looh wrote: "Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
David did have some ki..."


I finished the last one a week ago in my native language (German) and I am still stunned and I just can't concentrate on any other book because it was so incredible!! I just got kind of confused in the end.. I always imagined Fermin to be the age of Senor Sempere and Zafon discribes that he is aging but i feel like if Alicia is 59 in the end of the book and was like 7ish when Fermin saved her life first.. Then he would at least be 80-90 years old, right?


Sansa Lannister Lara wrote: "Lux Lisbon wrote: "Looh wrote: "Matheus wrote: "I've just read all the books, following the order in which they were released. And I came to some conclusions which I'm pretty sure are correct.
Dav..."


Yes, Fermin was probably around 90 years old. It's look like he was there forever.


message 37: by Joan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Joan In the last book the truth about David Martin (and more) will be revealed. No spoilers (in Spain the book has already been released) but i ended up really dissapointed. Carlos Ruiz Zafon is my favourite author of all time, and I'll try to do like his two last books, TPOH and The Laberinth of the Spirits never existed.


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