The Wise Man's Fear (The Kingkiller Chronicle, #2) The Wise Man's Fear discussion


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Is Kvothe lying?

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Pablo During the reading of the first book I haven't this feeling, however, once I reached certain part of "The Wise Man's Fear" I started to think that Kvothe's story is just that: a story. He's lying about it and my theory is that although he's surely a exceptionally talented man, he was largely surpassed by it's legend (which he's feeding intentionally from the beginning) and now he finds himself unable to match what's expected from a mythic hero. He probably even has lost contact with what was real and what's fake on his narration.

The point when I started thinking this way was when he briefly tolds that on the ship travel he makes after taking a rest period on the university there was storm, pirates, treason and a shipwreck. He doesn't get any deep on this because "it's not important for the story" but he's able to expand himself for very long periods speaking of totally untrascendent events.

So... he mades his first ship travel, of sixteen days, where he experiments events that rarely an all-life seaman suffers during all his sailing years and he thinks that it's not worthy to tell briefly about how all that things happened?

Later, with my mind aware of this strange behaviour and being more alert I discovered Kvothe expanding himself a lot on events totally out of the main story. And I started to find several little details that didn't fit on his story.

So my theory is this: Kvothe is lying.
Anyone else had a similar feeling on this? I actually suspect that the lesser details that doesn't fit on the story are simple narrative errors that come from the difficulty of maintain totally coherent a story of this magnitude. But I'd be gladly surprised if when the third book hit the stores and I read it I find that these were intentionally placed along the first books to hook us readers into a final trap.
Won't it be awesome? What do you think about it?


message 2: by Martina (last edited Sep 08, 2012 04:54AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Martina Kvothe is lying. There were many implications that his story isn't very trustworthy. He even says something like "there are many versions of this story, but I like this one the best" (It's been some time since I've read it, but I believe I remember something like this).
I don't know about the pirates. I think he's telling the story about him and the girl of his life, so there's really not much reason to speak about the pirates. Especially if he had some part in that particular event, that wouldn't be exactly hero-like (I'm not saying he had, but it's possible - I tend to fill the void with things I would like to be there.) Rothfuss knows what happened with the pirates, so let him reveal it if it's important.
Kvothe tells his story the way he wants it to be. That's what I believe all the time and that's why I defend Kvothe when someone calls him Mary Sue - who wouldn't make themselves better than they are if they had the chance to tell their "real-life" story? But if Rothfuss finishes the trilogy without revealing that Kvothe was actually lying on some parts, it will bite him in the ass. But I think he intentionally put there those errors in Kvothe's narrating.


message 3: by umut (last edited Sep 08, 2012 05:18AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

umut I don't think he is completely lying. He may exaggerate things but that doesn't mean that those things have never happened. They happened in some way. Kvothe is very talented person and he is also a writer. Writers don't tell everything in the way of truth. They paint their thoughts like Kvothe.


Donna Well, Doctor Who's first rule is that he lies so why shouldn't Kvothe? :) I'm pretty sure most of what he's regaling us with is true or close to the truth. Afterall never let the truth get in the way of a good story and Patrick is an excellent storyteller.He certainly tells us the good and bad from his life. Hoping for much more when Doors of Stone is released.


message 5: by Kaitlynn (last edited Sep 22, 2012 06:33AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kaitlynn If you read the author's blog, it really sounds like Kvothe is every bit as powerful and perfect as he is presented to be. I don't think Rothfuss has it IN him to make his precious Kvothe a liar, no matter how much it's improve the character and narrative.


Richard Kaitlynn wrote: "If you read the author's blog, it really sounds like Kvothe is every bit as powerful and perfect as he is presented to be. I don't think Rothfuss has it IN him to make his precious Kvothe a liar, n..."
i agree


Kaitlynn Martina wrote: "I don't know about the pirates. I think he's telling the story about him and the girl of his life, so there's really not much reason to speak about the pirates. Especially if he had some part in that particular event, that wouldn't be exactly hero-like (I'm not saying he had, but it's possible - I tend to fill the void with things I would like to be there.) Rothfuss knows what happened with the pirates, so let him reveal it if it's important."

If you read the blog or any interviews with Rothfuss, he's said multiple times that the original draft of Wise Man's Fear did contain all the adventures with pirates. Editors forced him to cut it as it didn't advance the story and the book was already exceptionally long without it. Rothfuss will be releasing it as a novella after he finishes the main trilogy.

In short, the pirates are not evidence of whether or not Kvothe is lying. Just that editors tried to trim the book to a reasonable length.


Elizabeth I have a feeling the same thing happened with the trial. I wonder if Rothfuss regrets setting this up as a 3-day story. He could have gotten several more novels out of all this if he'd been willing to break it into more pieces!


message 9: by Martina (last edited Sep 24, 2012 02:03PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Martina Elizabeth wrote: "I have a feeling the same thing happened with the trial. I wonder if Rothfuss regrets setting this up as a 3-day story. He could have gotten several more novels out of all this if he'd been willing..."

And it would be more realistic. There were more interuptions in the second book, yet Kvothe managed to tell the story, which I've been reading for a few days in a few hours (I'd say max. 15h - more like 10-12)...

Kaitlynn wrote: If you read the blog or any interviews with Rothfuss...
I honestly don't care what the author intends as long as he doesn't destroy my idea of the book. But I agree this is no proof of Kvothe's lying. There are other indications that he's not saying the full truth.


message 10: by Alex (new) - rated it 5 stars

Alex It fits very well that this is a three-day story, and hence a three book publication. But for me it's too clear that the third book will end (more or less) with the end of the story and the beginning of the post-story: I guess the fight with Haliax is still pending, and the worsening condition of the world is evidence of this. So I expect more books after that.

Now you'll tell me the author has specifically denied this, and there goes my theory ;-)


message 11: by Kate (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kate Palmer Kaitlynn wrote: "If you read the author's blog, it really sounds like Kvothe is every bit as powerful and perfect as he is presented to be. I don't think Rothfuss has it IN him to make his precious Kvothe a liar, n..."

Agreed.


message 12: by John (new) - rated it 4 stars

John Wyss Pablo wrote: "During the reading of the first book I haven't this feeling, however, once I reached certain part of "The Wise Man's Fear" I started to think that Kvothe's story is just that: a story. He's lying a..."

I just finished the book 10 minutes ago, and that was the first thing that popped into my head too, so I googled "Kvothe lying" to see what other people thought.

I completely agree that it might be he has even lost contact with what is reality and what is fiction. The pirate scene (or lack there of) wasn't what tipped me off though. Its the fact that he seems unable to corroborate any of what he is saying with reality.

He was a fabulous musician... there is no music in the inn.
He was an excelent sympathist...he can't perform magic "anymore."
He was trained to fight, and though not as good as the rest of the Adem, still talented enough to be better than most... he can no longer fight and is thrashed pretty severely when trying.
He was given an invaluable sword he was supposed to always keep... its not the sword he has anymore.
Even the box that he is unable to open at the end could suggest this.

Now, don't get me wrong.. clearly Rothfuss is hinting that something happened to him that has caused him to become what he is now (my guess is the death of Denna)... but I think that might be deliberate misdirection. We know for certain from Bast's reactions to some of Kvothe's encounters and the encounter with the demons in the first book, that he at least has knowledge of some arcane things.. but that doesn't mean the rest of what he is saying is true.


Nichola John wrote: "He was a fabulous musician... there is no music in the inn.
He was an excelent sympathist...he can't perform magic "anymore."
He was trained to fight, and though not as good as the rest of the Adem, still talented enough to be better than most... he can no longer fight and is thrashed pretty severely when trying.
He was given an invaluable sword he was supposed to always keep... its not the sword he has anymore."


He's supposed to have gone into hiding? All of these things would have been a give away to his identity. I don't think Kvothe is lying. It would be a really poor way for Rothfuss to end the book on a par with the 'it was all a dream' ending. I e believe both of these to be unimaginitive and a sign of a poor writer. Up to now Rothfuss is neither. He has hinted, not so subtley, that the protagonist is on his way to a huge downfall. At the end of the book he got attacked and sat on the floor laughing, this was hardly the normal reaction. I think that fight was more significant that initially thought. Lets also not forget that at the beginning of the name of the wind, Kvothe fought off the spider like beasties which seem to be impossible for anybody else to kill so we have actually seen him show off some pretty nifty fighting skills which seem to go beyond the norm.


message 14: by Karen (last edited Mar 24, 2013 04:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Karen Elizabeth wrote: "I have a feeling the same thing happened with the trial. I wonder if Rothfuss regrets setting this up as a 3-day story. He could have gotten several more novels out of all this if he'd been willing..."

I agree I think this series could have been broken out into several smaller books. Waiting for the third book to come out is painful! I am a little naive/Polyanna but I hope Kvothe is not lying. :)


message 15: by Alex (new) - rated it 5 stars

Alex My current take is that Kvothe is perhaps embellishing his own story, but not outright lying, and in the process he is also healing himself to become what he was. I'd like if the third book were to end with him playing his lute, even if deprived of everything else.


Amber He was a fabulous musician... there is no music in the inn.
He was an excelent sympathist...he can't perform magic "anymore."
He was trained to fight, and though not as good as the rest of the Adem, still talented enough to be better than most... he can no longer fight and is thrashed pretty severely when trying.
He was given an invaluable sword he was supposed to always keep... its not the sword he has anymore.
Even the box that he is unable to open at the end could suggest this.




Just to give perspective:

Kote does do music in the Inn during the novels, he sings a song and is instantly recognized by a traveller, thus showing the readers why he does not have music in his Inn.

Kote does accidently explode a bottle of Strawberry Wine after speaking of Denna. Showing he can indeed use magic, just may struggle with controlling it.

He does fight the Scrael, as mentioned, and he starts to fight the men in the bar, but then remembers who he is supposed to be and doesn't, I'm pretty sure he even says, I forgot who I was for a second. Kote can't just kick there ass, thats going to be a red flag to everyone else. He fought the scrael because there were no witnesses and it was too late to stop when Chronicler showed up.

Kvothe faked his death - upon death the sword of any adem must be sent back to ademre, he must make these arrangements in every place he goes too. This is made clear when he recieves the sword. If he wants everyone to think he is dead, he wouldn't keep the sword.



Personally, I think Kote is an unreliable narrator. He is obviously the villian to some folk, hence his need to hide and further more to get his story clear and told. Something he has mused about doing himself.


message 17: by Seed (new) - added it

Seed After reading all these, I don't know what to think!!!


Michelle i believe kvothe/kote is an excellent story teller, the truth is there but embellished for the better telling, parts underplayed or overplayed to the effect of the best story. but truth always outs and i think there's some heavy stuff on it's way in dos.


message 19: by Bene (new)

Bene Elim I don't think the story of Kvothe's life is a lie. But I don't think that Kvothe is telling the story. Kote is.

Kote has Kvothe's body, and Kvothe's memories, but he is not Kvothe. He is Kote the Innkeeper playing the part of Kvothe.

So how did this happen? I reckon that at the height of his power and fame Kvothe went too far and lost something massively important to him (at a guess:Denna). He tried to get it/her back but failed so completely that he broke both the world and himself. He failed so completely that all he could do was run.

So he did.

He ran as far and as fast as he could, but he couldn't escape, because he wasn't running from anything physical, he was running from himself. To hide from himself he became someone else, locked Kvothe away in the thrice locked chest and acted the part of Kote. Bought an in in the back end of nowhere and tried to forget. He acted his part so well that eventually he stopped being Kvothe playing Kote, and became just Kote.

Bast hunted Kvothe and found Kote. He needed Kvothe, so he reminded him, tried to make him *be* Kvothe again. But he couldn't. He could only be Kote acting as Kvothe. Kote acts very well, he is still Ruh to the bone, but he can't act it all. He can't fight or bind or call the names of things. So Bast's been trying more extravagant things, as we've read about.

But Kvothe is locked away inside the thrice locked chest, or rather the three things that make him Kvothe; his Adem sword, his Shaed and his true Name (not so much the items, but what they represent). Only Kvothe can get into the chest, so Kote needs to get enough of himself back (hence practicing the Ketan at the end of WMF.)

Someone mentioned music earlier. I think that Kvothe simply can't face it anymore. He hasn't locked it away, Kote could still play or sing, but neither Kote nor Kvothe can face it. Likely it reminds them too much of what they've lost.

tl;dr The story is true. Kote can't fight or do sympathy because he isn't Kvothe anymore.

Another theory; Kvothe isn't Rothfuss' self-insert. He's definitely fond of Kvothe, and thinks highly of him, but Rothfuss isn't Kvothe. If Rothfuss has any self-insert, it's Bast.


Illegitimate Bene wrote: "I don't think the story of Kvothe's life is a lie. But I don't think that Kvothe is telling the story. Kote is.

Kote has Kvothe's body, and Kvothe's memories, but he is not Kvothe. He is Kote the ..."


I agree and if you consider Kvothe's spiritual condition in Tarbean after his families loss, probably Kote might be doing the same just running away from a sad memory(might be Denna's death). It took him to heal himself for 3 years so recently what is happening in the inn could be similar to 3 years in Tarbean.


Frenchie Also time has passed. Kvothe is older and has a new life as Kote, the innkeeper, as far as possible from being Kvothe.
But I have the feeling that Kvothe will be awaken in the next book. I got a big annoyed with him as Kote and his lack of action.


 ☆Ruth☆ Frenchie wrote: "Also time has passed. Kvothe is older and has a new life as Kote, the innkeeper, as far as possible from being Kvothe.
But I have the feeling that Kvothe will be awaken in the next book. I got a b..."


Seed wrote: "After reading all these, I don't know what to think!!!"
Me too! Although my biggest question is not whether kvote is lying (I hope not because that would be disappointing for me)... no, what I want to know is - who is Bast and where did he come from? Did I miss something along the way?


Amber LOL! No you didn't miss anything Ruth. Bast is quite the mystery. We know he is Kote's student, but we do not know how they met or why they stick together.

Pat has been working on a short story/Novella based around Bast, so if we don't get answers in Doors Of Stone, I'm sure we'll get some/most of that information in a subsequent release.


 ☆Ruth☆ Amber wrote: "LOL! No you didn't miss anything Ruth. Bast is quite the mystery. We know he is Kote's student, but we do not know how they met or why they stick together.

Pat has been working on a short story..."


Thks - can't wait for next book, just love his writing!


Matthew Johnson I think the best explanation for the disparity between Kvothe and Kote's skills has less to do with lying and more to do with the fact he changed his name. Names are powerful things, no? :)


Amber True True. But we still don't know if he changed his true name or his calling name. Calling names are decidedly less important.


message 27: by Mike (last edited Aug 18, 2013 10:42PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike Spot on Matthew. Amber, I believe he did both.

I think Kvothe is truly attempting to relay his story. The real story. He's not a perfect character and has made mistakes. I believe he has done something regarding his true name. He's very smart, witty, and clever, therefore I feel he will learn how to correct what he has done.

Either way though, he is not happy with himself or some of the things he has done. Everyone has a problem with the character feeling as though he has been created as a larger than life, perfect, never failing individual. I kind of feel the opposite. I feel that he has had some major successes in his life, but what is important is the story behind the story. Where his failures have brought him to where he is now. A somewhat lonely confused, hurting person.

Take the frustration of opening his box for instance. He built it for goodness sakes and now is even powerless to open it. I can see the frustration and despair in the face as he slouches over it his futile efforts. It seems as though every now and then he has a gentle flash back to who he was and forgets who he is. That in itself has caused him hardships.

The one theory I have is that this is all possibly part of a master plan that he has in order to bring his ultimate goal of facing the Chandrian into fruition. As though he is pulling off the greatest act of any Edma and luring his enemies in. Possibly he has even become one of the Amyr by this point.

Ive also though that the Amyr let him see cthaeh. Remember how he mysteriously got by its guards. And the guards description was rather close to that of the Amyr. In the sense that their actions are for the greater good. Maybe there is some other magic in play wherein they knew that Kvothe had to speak to the Cthaeh, even though great turmoil will result, the greater good would prevail with the destruction of the Chandrian or some other act.

In any case I believe he will either become Amyr, already has, or will work closely with them. Though the books have hinted at the Amyr, we actually know more about the Chandrian. I'm speaking about Amyr on the level of the Chandrian. Not the historical Amyr referenced in the books. I feel those work to assist and serve the real Amyr. I believe the storyteller in TNOTW was one of these.

Just some things I've kicked around, probably couldn't be farther from where the author is going. Lol.


Amber Yah, I've never found Kvothe to be the ultimate badass character like some people seem to think he is. I enjoy Kvothe's failures and find his need for revenge to be one of his greatest faults.

I wasn't trying to say that he didn't change his name, I was trying to say, we can't conclusively say what is wrong with the man. It could be he changed his name, and thats a reasonable hypothesis, but we could also be way off base. Personally, I've always thought that his alar failed him due to some traumatic event and that he could no longer properly use it because of that trauma. Easily either could happen and have the same story surrounding it.

Also, the Amyr don't guard the Ctheah, the Sithe do. They are a solely fae based group. They are quite different from the Amyr and even Bast says that describing them as working "for the greater good" would be a poor description and shows a lack of understanding for them. However, since the Amyr's founding goal was to take revenge on The Chandrian I wouldn't be surprised that Kvothe might join them since thats a common interest.

Personally from my POV outside of what Kvothe believes, I don't see The Sithe, The Chandrian, or The Amyr as strictly good or bad groups. They are all just groups with agendas.


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

Kaitlynn wrote: "Martina wrote: "I don't know about the pirates. I think he's telling the story about him and the girl of his life, so there's really not much reason to speak about the pirates. Especially if he had..."

I think it would be cool if the released an extended version of the kingkiller Chronicle at some point, with all of the material the editors asked him to cut out.


Matthew Johnson I'm with you on the changing both names, Mike.

The whole concept of him being a "mary sue" seems absurd to me. He has strengths and weaknesses, just like Amber pointed out, his need for revenge not being the least of them. I like Amber's theory of his snapping in a way that caused his alar to fail, but I have a hard time thinking of what else he could have endured trauma wise that would be worse than what's already happened or cause him to react differently than he has historically (e.g., process, learn, grow, etc.)


message 31: by Amber (last edited Aug 26, 2013 03:36PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Amber In my opinion and based on whats thus far been presented, I don't think another traumatic event would be required necessarily.
A lot of the traumatic events that have happen to Kvothe are actually sealed away in his psyche. He doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about them and some he doesn't even have full awareness of until something forces them upon him.
For instance, when he is poisoned with the plum bob, when he calls Felurian's name, and when he speaks with Ctheah. All these events lead to him faceing traumatic moments of his past his mind had kept locked away from his concious existance. All someone has to do is open all the doors of Kvothe's mind and he could easily be overwhelmed by the scope of his personal pain. Couple that with his constant desire to locate the Chandrian, whose leaders self professed major ability is that, No Door Shall Bar his passing and blam, recipe for disaster. Especially in an instance of pure instinct where Kvothe might use a magic greater than his understanding, that has already led many to institutionalization, and has already once sent him into a state of basic catatonia.


Misty Ice Bene wrote: "I don't think the story of Kvothe's life is a lie. But I don't think that Kvothe is telling the story. Kote is.

Kote has Kvothe's body, and Kvothe's memories, but he is not Kvothe. He is Kote the ..."


WOnderful!!


message 33: by Erik (new) - rated it 5 stars

Erik Warren Kvothe lying? Balderdash!
Poetic license? sure
But to claim there is no proof that he actually did all the stuff in his story is overlooking a couple of things.
1 - The pavement in Imre where Kvothe killed some one is shattered beyond repair as witnessed by the caravan traveller who recognized Kvothe.
2 - There is a price on his head because he is a bad dude not because he is a liar or an exaggerator.
Amber points out several corroborating actions also.

No - if Kvothe is a liar I will burn my copy of the books.


Kristoff Zielinski Erik wrote: "Kvothe lying? Balderdash!
Poetic license? sure
But to claim there is no proof that he actually did all the stuff in his story is overlooking a couple of things.
1 - The pavement in Imre where Kvoth..."


I agree, the view some people have of Kvothe is really strange. Is he lying? yes, but he's also modest and he probably did far greater things. Just look at the story with Felurian. That's and his training with the Adem are so different from the other tales that you can see he tells the thruth in a very sincere way.

I see Kvothe in the Inn as 1 year after everything ended, when he lost Denna and defeated the Chandrian. He's lost everything at this moment that defined his life and he's in a severe depression. How many time really passed by? Nobody but Kvothe knows, look at the time with Felurian. He went in a boy and came out a man. Both emotionally as physically, his time with the Adem defined that even more.

There's a price on his head because he's a kingkiller, not because he's bad. He's many things but not evil. As far as killing the King. He probably deserved it.

Kvothe isn't a liar, he did many things in pursuit of the Names. All for the greater good in protecting Denna or defeating the Chandrian or Ambrose. Some people who don't understand him would say he's evil but that's out of fear.

Kvote sometimes creams things up but that's because the thruth was similar but not so exciting. If you read between the lines the outcome would be the same as it's viewed through a boy's eyes and memories are sometimes better left alone, especially the recent ones.

His lore of him losing his family, growing up on the roofs, learning how to play the lute. It's all true. It's just at this moment in time he has lost himself, his energy and his will. He does stuff and sometimes it flickers up again.

In the next book i think he finds the Chandrian, Denna gets killed along the way. He defeats one, maybe two but has to run as he wasn't ready. In defeat he opened up an inn together with Bast. Now the remaining Chandrian are chaos and are preparing a war. The Skrae are the first signs. IN the next trilogy he will have find his will, energy and strength back and goes off to defeat them once and for all. First he'll get his sword back from the Adem as he will be alive again. Then the Kingkiller will face the Chandrian alone with all the pain they caused. At this point he won't care if the world will burn with him or not and that's where the fear of the people come from as he did it too Ambriose as a youngling. Who knows what he's capable off when facing the Chandrian for the first time and using the pain of losing Denna.


message 35: by Ken (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ken Unreliable narrators are used by great authors. Is this one? We shall see with the release of book 3.


message 36: by Amber (last edited Nov 26, 2013 02:42PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Amber There's a price on his head because he's a kingkiller, not because he's bad. He's many things but not evil. As far as killing the King. He probably deserved it.


So murdering people outside of the Laws that everyone has agreed to follow to create a structure of society isn't evil or bad so long as you personally feel it's justified?
Seriously?

It's not bad to steal or lie?

It's not bad to directly disobey your elders?

It's not bad to risk other people lives simply so you can one up your fellow man?

Because that's pretty much what you're saying when you say Kvothe isn't bad, since he's done all of these, and probably more I can't think of.
I'm not saying he's 100% evil, I'm just saying, they're needs to be some perspective on what is Good and What is Bad, and how everyone in the story (and real life) is doing both.


Nichola Amber. You're assuming that every person who ends the life of another person is bad. Whilst on the surface the knee jerk reaction is to believe this, can you think of no circumstances where death may occur and yet the man responsible is not a bad man?

I too am not saying Kvothe is one way or the other but I doubt he turned into an evil murderer for no reason. You also forget, this book is set in a different time and place where the laws and moral standards are not the same as ours.


Amber Self defense is the only acceptable reason to kill another human without the propriety of law behind you. I don't know about his killing a king, but his killing the fake ruh was not legal, and any person who tortures another person out of spite is not good.
Sure they were rapists, and I don't condone such actions either, but that is not why Kvothe committed his actions really, he committed those actions because he didn't want them contributing to the already bad reputation of Edema Ruh. He even knows what he has done is illegal and will look bad, as he runs back to Alveron as quickly as he can to explain himself and even knows the direct laws he's broken.
Alveron isn't approving of his actions either, they're only smoothed over by Meluan's prejudice.

When men step outside the rule of law, anarchy results. If I heard of this in passing, I would hang him for a bandit

If Kvothe can take these measures, then everyone should be allowed too, that just wouldn't work. Encouraging such actions outside the rule of law degrades society.

I never meant to imply he turned into an evil murderer for no reason, and I don't think of him in such a way, but I realize some of his actions are unethical. He has many reasons for what he does, that's what makes it so difficult to see that he isn't always right.

As for the laws and morals, I haven't found them to be all that different honestly, it's quite a progressive medieval setting, I've always seen it as almost dystopian, considering the machinery in the Underthing and the capabilities hinted at in the Creation War. Plus, they do have enforced law, Kvothe has a trial at one point and everything. I mean, they've even evolved law somewhat dispensing of the Amyr for, what, the Iron Law or something like that?


Nichola Even in this society (ours) I can think of circumstances where someone may get killed and I would not see the 'murderer' as a bad person. I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable or that it wouldn't be against the law, but in one of your comments I got the impression that you were saying Kvothe cannot be a good person if he murders a king. My point is merely that he could still be a murderer and a good person.


message 40: by Ken (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ken Why does he have to be a good person anyway? People love Dracula's story, and he was a sadistic beast.

I doubt legality came into Kvothe's head at all.


Nichola Good lord. I'm not saying Kvothe is either good or bad. I'm saying being the 'king killer' doesn't necessarily put him in the 'bad' category.


Ramon Salinas i think you mean is coat lying


message 43: by Ken (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ken Well the coat was on the coat rack.


Amber Nichola wrote: "Even in this society (ours) I can think of circumstances where someone may get killed and I would not see the 'murderer' as a bad person. I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable or that it ..."

I don't think that being a murderer equates to 100% evil, as I've said from the beginning. But the act of committing murder is evil whether you mean to or not.

The fact that Kvothe is hiding out and not willing to face a court that he has already proven he can best while a child, really implies a lot in my opinion.
To refuse to face the consequences for ones actions is not honorable either. Even Jaime Lannister, one of the more prominent King Killers in Fantasy, was willing to do that.

I see Kvothe as a very neutral character, he doesn't act out for the greater good, or the greater evil, simply for whatever will give him or his loved ones gain - which can eventually equate to evil, but sometimes results in good as well.
Being a Kingkiller doesn't necessarily put him in the bad category, but certainly pushes him farther from the good than the bad, add the fact that he's already murdered multiple people and tortured at least one in the past certainly ups the percentage toward that direction.
How many truly goodhearted things has Kvothe done without first considering self gain? (this might actually make an interesting topic)
I can only think of one person Kvothe truly does things for without thinking of himself as well, and that's Auri.


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

John wrote: ow, don't get me wrong.. clearly Rothfuss is hinting that something happened to him that has caused him to become what he is now (my guess is the death of Denna)... but I think that might be deliberate misdirection.

I really, really hope that Mr. Rothfuss doesn't kill Denna for the sake of Kvothe's character evolution.


Ramon Salinas i think denna is princess ariel i dont think they will kill her he has to get her back in book 5


Nichola It's been a while since I read this book so I may have missed something obvious. "He has to get her back in book 5". I thought this was a trilogy is it a series? Oh lord I don't know how I feel of it is, I'm tired/irritated of waiting for Mr Rothfuss to stop messing about and release book three already but I do love these books so a series lasts longer? :/


Ramon Salinas The Kingkiller Chronicle no one ever said trilogy i'm expecting at least 5 books chronicles of narnia was 7 books


Nichola Taken from wiki (I know it's not reliable but it seems to quote PR)

"As of August 2013, the first two books have been released and the third will likely be released in 2014.[2]

Day One: The Name of the Wind (April 2007)
Day Two: The Wise Man's Fear (March 2011)[3]
Day Three: The Doors of Stone (working title)[4] It will involve the chronicling of Kvothe's life from where The Wise Man's Fear left off until an unknown time and will be the third and final day of the story. Patrick Rothfuss has said that this will be the end of this particular arc in the story.[5]
As of 2014, Rothfuss is currently working on two novellas and a novel about characters from the books[6]


Ramon Salinas those 3 days are for coat Kvothe still needs to make a come back just remember in 7 or 8 years cuz thats how long it seems for him to finish a book number 4 will come out


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