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The Government > Death Penalty

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message 1: by Liz (last edited Feb 01, 2009 02:33PM) (new)

Liz Should the government be able to subject criminals to the death penalty? Is the death penalty morally wrong? Is it morally wrong but should the government utilize it?
Just wondering what opinions were floating around out there...


message 2: by Chandani (new)

Chandani  (milkduds920) | 6408 comments Hmmm, i think that in cases like a guy killing his 12 toddler children and rapping his sister and then shoving then into a wall, they should die. Thats just how my mind works, and its probably mean but thats how it is. If you do something that bad, you deserve to die on my watch.

Im so meannn


message 3: by Liz (new)

Liz So basically, there is a thresh hold one has to cross. So are you saying you think that if someone murders someone else he/she deserves death?
Its not necessarily mean, that is clearly an awful man you are describing.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

I think that killing is always wrong no matter what. If a guy muders another guy and people murder him its just one more life gone.


message 5: by Chandani (new)

Chandani  (milkduds920) | 6408 comments Another part of my twisted mind thinks that death would be too easy. Just letting them off like that. I think they should be locked in prison and tourtured! In a nice way of course.


message 6: by Emma the Dork (new)

Emma the Dork (cheesehead) i think that it is stupid to say, "To prove that killing is wrong, we are going to kill you!" It's dumb. but whats even dumber is that army generals and troops literally get a "license to kill" where they won't be given the death penalty because their fighting for there country, which i think is utter crap.


message 7: by Melissa (new)

Melissa Landers (mnlanders) There was a time when I thought that if one human being killed another, they deserved the death penalty. But, you know what? That's too good for someone like that. They deserve to rot in prison. Prison can pretty much be like a living Hell. They can get the crap beat out of them, they can get in fights, the cops/authority figures probably aren't too nice... So many different things go on in there.

As I said, the death penalty is too good for them. And, you're really not making any sort of statement or point by saying, "Oh, since you killed so-and-so, now you die too." There's no point made when you do that. But, it would suck if they knew they were going to rot in jail for the rest of their miserable lives, while others (those that don't go around killing people) were free to walk the streets and enjoy life. I think that's definitely the best punishment for a loser like that.


message 8: by Liz (new)

Liz I agree completely, Emma and Melissa! You guys make some good points.


message 9: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments Yeah Melissa, that's a good idea.


message 10: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments I have another question, but to explain it I'm going to have to tell you a story. I'm substituting names in here.

Once upon a time there was a single mother who had two children. The mother, Mary, had a mental illness that could be treated. She thought she didn't need her medication any more because she read on a website that taking medication poisoned your body.
A week later, she thought her children had been kidnapped by aliens, and aliens were in their place and were plotting to kill her children and herself. To save herself and her children, her insane mind thought, she would have to kill the aliens in such a way that would show them that she wasn't afraid of them.
Mary killed her two children, cut them up, and placed their body parts in garbage bags that she left around the house. Finally one of her neighbors questioned about the stink, and she was arrested.
She was excused from a lifetime in prison/death penalty, and instead sent to a medical hospital that my mother worked at. When she was on her medication, she sunk into a depression.


So here's my question: Was it right she was excused from a lifetime in prison/death penalty? It was a treatable disease, and it was only under its influence she murdered her children. And don't you think living with that would be much worse? Or do you think these people are too dangerous to let live? They could always go off of their medication again.


message 11: by Chandani (new)

Chandani  (milkduds920) | 6408 comments Thats really sad. I dont really know how i would vote if i were on that jury. I mean she obviously killed her children and is guilty, but there is something called "Not mentally fit for prison".

This one woman was schizophrenic and she thought that the devil was trying to steal her childrens souls so she drowned the three of them in the tub, so they would "Die while they were still innocent".

I think that mentally unstable murderers should be institutionalized (In a mental home). That way they cant be a harm to themselves, or to anyone else.
As for blatant murder, i agree with Melissa that death is too easy. Life in prison is much worse.


message 12: by Melissa (last edited Feb 05, 2009 02:01PM) (new)

Melissa Landers (mnlanders) Hm... I think in the instance that you're talking about, Riley, the mother should be institutionalized. She certainly doesn't belong wandering the streets after killing her children, but she doesn't belong in jail/prison either. Granted, she DID kill her children, but if she truly had a mental disorder, it's not completely her fault.

True, she DID choose, herself, to stop taking the medication, but how can you expect a mentally unstable person to faithfully take their meds? She was mentally unstable! She may have THOUGHT that she was okay without it, but she really wasn't. And due to the fact that she was so mentally unstable that she needed those kinds of meds, she should have been institutionalized long before she had the chance to kill her children, in my opinion.

She didn't maliciously kill them; she had really thought that they were being taken over by "aliens"! And you know how hard it is not to believe something when you've got your mind set. That's probably exactly how she felt. She didn't want to kill her children, but she wanted the "aliens" dead. So, in doing so, she killed her children as well.

She's apparently not wrapped too tight and should most definitely be considered a mental patient.


message 13: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments I agree with you guys perfectly! I'm so happy you agree with me. :D


message 14: by Liz (new)

Liz wow melissa! I never even thought about death being too easy...thats a good point.

My view is just that killing is wrong, we should limit it, and if someone did something wrong, like killing, it makes no sense to kill them back. like emma said, "to prove that killing is wrong, we are going to kill you". that just doesn't make sense. besides, i think it is sinful to kill, no matter what, even though sometimes in war and other situations it is inevitable.


message 15: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments That is a good point Liz. :D I agree with you.


message 16: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) Chandani wrote: "Another part of my twisted mind thinks that death would be too easy. Just letting them off like that. I think they should be locked in prison and tourtured! In a nice way of course."

YES TOURTURE THEM TO THEIRE DEATH *evile eyes and hands rubbing toether hatching evil plan* BWAHA!


message 17: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) so there was this guy who would stalk little childeren then cut them up make a soup out of them called like gnosh or something then went to the family of the children and tell them he was sorry about the loss anf fed them the soup. that made them go crazy, one mother thought the boy was playing hide-n-seek with her. so realy that dude should be in jail or the death penelty, however- if someone killed one man, its not as bad.

that story is true verified bye oyez.org http://us.oyez.org/ the official site, so its true, i cant find the case on there but i will ask sum1 in my class on moday for the name of the case


message 18: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) i know it was in montanna b4 the death penalty was allowed


message 19: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) Also, it would be horrible if after somebody was killed they were found innocent, that would be just horrible, so i think it should be very proveen well and such. its never happened before but people on "death row" were found innocent before


message 20: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) Riley wrote: "I have another question, but to explain it I'm going to have to tell you a story. I'm substituting names in here.

Once upon a time there was a single mother who had two children. The mother, Mary,..."



in reply to this i must say that if the mother had that illness she shouldn't be able to parent 2 children.



message 21: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments I think the death penalty should stay. I'm not into the whole "morals" thing. I don't think anything is black or white.


message 22: by Liz (new)

Liz So, Sara Jean, ,you believe that if a person tortures people then he deserves to be tortured back?
I have to disagree with that.
I think it would be ironic "what you did was wrong, so we are going to do the same wrong thing to you and get away with it".


message 23: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) no,
i think that if you kill 3+ people for no reason, then its not safe for you to be here, i think jail is worse but i would be scared to have them alive able to kill >:( and message 18 was a joke


message 24: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments But everyone thought if she stayed on the medication everything would be fine!

Of course, there's women, like on Snapped, who commit heinous crimes and then get off because there's not enough evidence. This is a really shaky subject for me.


message 25: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) * post 16


but she didnt stay on medication. if she did maybe she would have been fine. but she didnt. thats like saying if he didnt have a gun he ouldnt have shot him, so she we not give him the eath penailty because if he didnt have the gun he wouldnt have shot him. no, he he should still get in trouble

however i dont think she should get/got the death penalty so idk why i am arguing agaisnt my self


message 26: by Riley (new)

Riley (booksarecool) | 2246 comments I think I agree with you...


message 27: by Sarah jean (new)

Sarah jean  blank (Sarahjean) I think that the death penalty is better than prison, but if somebody did realy horrible things, they are not safe enough to be living


message 28: by Liz (new)

Liz But isn't it ironic that death is punishment for causing death?
And humans don't deserve to die. We are all people. A lifetime sentence is torture and most prisons have high security. It would be very hard to escape prison.

I think the death penalty is awful. Killing as punishment? What have humans come to...


message 29: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Common sense. People are scared of death. If we take away the death penalty than people are going to be less afraid of killing. Like in France with the guillotines.


message 30: by Liz (new)

Liz I don't know how much consequences weigh in on a lunatic gunman's descision to shoot people. Not the most risk-averse, rational thinkers, wouldn't you say?

I'm pretty sure they don't care. They know chances are, they will go to jail. I don't think punishment weighs into their descision as much as that weighs into our descisions.


message 31: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments In France when they started using the guillotines the crime rate went significantly down, and when they stopped using them it went back up.

And not all murderers are crazy, some just have anger management issues.


message 32: by Liz (new)

Liz Well, they aren't the most rational group of people. Punishment isn't the top concern otherwise they wouldn't commit crime or they would do a better job of being sneaky about it.

That makes sense about France, but I just don't think being evil to evil-doers is ever the right answer. Really, when humans are killing fellow humans as punishment, it makes you wonder what the world has come to.


message 33: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments But think of high up the crime rate of America would go if we stopped using the death penalty.

And with the death penalty away people would no longer think twice about killing.


message 34: by Liz (new)

Liz oh, you think with the death penalty instated, people think twice about killing, but without it, there would be nothing fro them to lose? I disagree. I think it is manslaughter we are accusing them of, therefore, to teach them, we are doing the same thing back to them? Its beyond ironic; its hypocritical. In fact, its beyond hypocritical, its horrible.


message 35: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Well yes they think twice before killing if there is death in the consequences. People are naturally scared of death, and jail isn't that bad for people who commit murder. They generally consist of the bullies in the jail, not the victims.

Murder and people executing murders are different. Not the same thing. Most murderers kill out of hatred to innocent, or mostly innocent, victims. You can barely call a man being executed for killing a victim or innocent.


message 36: by Liz (new)

Liz I can call him a victim; he is a victim of the awful government punishment. I don't care what these people do; the whole point we are trying to get across is that killing is under no circumstances acceptable, yet we kill them.

In my opinion, humans don't deserve death. It is hypocritical and horrid that the government employs the death penalty.


message 37: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Now you are mocking me, using semicolons and whatnot. :P

But they are not innocent. It isn't hypoctiitcal in the sense that I just argued.

mur⋅der
   /ˈmɜrdər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mur-der:] Show IPA
–noun
1. Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
2. Slang. something extremely difficult or perilous: That final exam was murder!
3. a group or flock of crows.
–verb (used with object)
4. Law. to kill by an act constituting murder.
5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.
6. to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation, pronunciation, etc.: The tenor murdered the aria.
–verb (used without object)
7. to commit murder.
—Idioms
8. get away with murder, Informal. to engage in a deplorable activity without incurring harm or punishment: The new baby-sitter lets the kids get away with murder.
9. murder will out, a secret will eventually be exposed.
10. yell or scream bloody murder,
a. to scream loudly in pain, fear, etc.
b. to protest loudly and angrily: If I don't get a good raise I'm going to yell bloody murder.


message 38: by Liz (new)

Liz No, I'm not mocking at all.
I know the definitions of murder.
I think the death penalty is murder. Its killing of another human being. If its not murder, what is it?
The "terminating" of a living being?



message 39: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Execution.

ex⋅e⋅cu⋅tion
   /ˌɛksɪˈkyuʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ek-si-kyoo-shuhn:] Show IPA
–noun
1. the act or process of executing.
2. the state or fact of being executed.
3. the infliction of capital punishment or, formerly, of any legal punishment.
4. the process of performing a judgment or sentence of a court: The judge stayed execution of the sentence pending appeal.
5. a mode or style of performance; technical skill, as in music: The pianist's execution of the sonata was consummate.
6. effective, usually destructive action, or the result attained by it (usually prec. by do): The grenades did rapid execution.
7. Law. a judicial writ directing the enforcement of a judgment.
8. Computers. the act of running, or the results of having run, a program or routine, or the performance of an instruction.


message 40: by Liz (new)

Liz Yep. I know what that means too. I think execution is the killing of na human being therefore it is murder.


message 41: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments But the definition of murder is not the killing of a human being.


message 42: by Liz (new)

Liz yah, well some things don't go by dictionary definitions. like a lot of people would call abortion murder, but in the definition it doesn't say:
"a form of murder is abortion"
i think you know exactly what i mean.
let me make it clearer, though.
DEATH PENALTY=killing
killing=wrong (even when employed by the government)


message 43: by Chandani (new)

Chandani  (milkduds920) | 6408 comments I disagree with the death penalty, not because i think it is wrong to kill a mass murderer/rapist/arsonist, but because i think that death is too much of an easy way out. Those scumbags deserve life in prison/


message 44: by Liz (new)

Liz You think death is too easy? Maybe so...


message 45: by Chandani (new)

Chandani  (milkduds920) | 6408 comments Yeah, i mean its just a way out. Their dead and therefore cannot be properly punished for their acctions


message 46: by Liz (new)

Liz Huh...
Haven't heard that one before...thats an interesting theory. But isn't life so precious it would be punishment enough to die?


message 47: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Hey, abortion is not murder.


message 48: by Sheeky (new)

Sheeky (sheekster) It's just...um.......getting rid of an unborn person......but I still hate it.


message 49: by The New Maria (new)

The New Maria (emeraldmaria) | 1950 comments Let's not bring abortion into this, even though Is strarted it. Lol


message 50: by Sheeky (new)

Sheeky (sheekster) Ok.


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