Jane Sucks...

[Ren]

Yes, I believe that Jane was there to serve as a contrast to Lizzie. Pride and Prejudice is meant to be a satire to the typical novel of those times. Jane is your typical prototype for the woman, whereas Lizzie was not. Sometimes we have to examine the literature with the eyes of those living in those times.

[Lily]

Robin wrote: "So true, one could get mired in all the historical significant events that was going on at the time. I should read Annotated Pride and Prejudice sounds like a good read, no pun intended."

One of the strengths of Austen is that she doesn't generally mire us in all the external events. But that is why I have found director's commentary and the annotated version useful on doing re-reading to help me notice what I had not in the past.

[[deleted user]]

I like lame. I'm lame then. Love her books. Some people may think her pollyanna but she wrote from within her time and for her time and became timeless. Women, all women want to be married....yep, they do. So, she writes about that. :)

[Pola]

Sonia wrote: "I like lame. I'm lame then. Love her books. Some people may think her pollyanna but she wrote from within her time and for her time and became timeless. Women, all women want to be married....yep, ..."

I agree with you.. I mean come to think about it the most common thing in a woman's mind ( even more in her family's mind) was to get married.. Jane Austen experienced that, it was a common subject to chew on.. if she was interested in a war she would have written about it, let's say.. besides she is always kind of satirical and ironic so I think she is mocking the institution of wedding somehow indirectly.. That's my opinion of course.. none of these things could be valid!!:-)

[Lily]

Sonia wrote: "...Women, all women want to be married....yep, they do...."

Read Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure one day and look at the character Sue. You may find yourself rethinking that position. (It is a downer of a book, so it may not be one you'll want to put on your TBR, but it is being discussed by one of the groups right now.)

[Lily]

Pola wrote: ".. if she was interested in a war she would have written about it, let's say.."

Do note that she does write about the billeting of the soldiers nearby and the impact of their moving. This influenced the availability of the eligible young men that Mrs. Bennet was so concerned about, as well as the economy for the shopkeepers. Only those of certain ranks were considered good candidates. Some left behind debts. (This tidbit was brought to my attention by the extra features with one of the movies, if I remember correctly.)

[Pola]

Lily wrote: "Pola wrote: ".. if she was interested in a war she would have written about it, let's say.."

Do note that she does write about the billeting of the soldiers nearby and the impact of their moving. ..."

yes i believe you are right and i agree with you.. i notice that in sense and sensibility too.. she is also concerned about economy a lot but i think it is mostly done due to the fact that a well off husband would be a good catch..

[Auriel]

I did not read all of the comments, just the first few, and I adore Jane. I wish I was more like her. I talk entirely too much, sharing with everyone every thought, and I wish that I could be a bit more mysterious like Jane. So quiet, and full of good sense, like Elinor from Sense and Sensibility...

[Auriel]

Courtney wrote: "First off, I have to say that I love this feature! I think we should pick a book and read it at the same time and then discuss! (or maybe I'm lame like Jane). ;-)

Second, "suck" and "lame" ar..."

I would definitely love to read an Austen book at the same time...if this is what you intended??

[Gabrielle]

Adalie wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Did anyone else think that Jane in the BBC version looked like a Michaelangelo drawing of a woman? I remember always thinking that she had a very muscular neck. (This probably isn..."

I totally agree with you on that!

[Sara]

Stella wrote: "Can i just say THANK YOU!!!!!! i'm glad to see im not the only one that feels that way! I'm not a big of Jane or the author either. I prefer Charlotte Bronte and Jane Eyre. "

I feel this way also.

[Mickey]

This thread isn't about Jane Austen, the author, but Jane Bennett, Elizabeth's sister in Pride and Prejudice.

On the same note, I'm involved in a discussion on another site about a contemporary young adult novel (Twilight), whose main character is a female. One of the most frequent criticisms of the main character is that she is "not a good role model." Does anyone have any thoughts about why we expect role models in young adult literature, but do not like it when we have a "role model" in adult literature? Or do you disagree?

[Adrienne]

Courtney wrote: "First off, I have to say that I love this feature! I think we should pick a book and read it at the same time and then discuss! (or maybe I'm lame like Jane). ;-)

Second, "suck" and "lame" ar..."
Agreed! I like Jane, I wish more people would take a page from her book and at least try to give people the benefit of the doubt before condemning them!

[Lexi]

Pride and Prejudice was really good, but The Phantom of Pemberly was the best.

[Robin]

I think, Mickey that role models play an important role in young adult novels, because young adults are wanting or I think good role models, and in adult writing we aren't looking for good role models, because we are older, and we aren't looking for that in our reading. Good question, though.

[Library Nymph]

Do you mean Jane as in Jane Bennet or Jane as in Jane Austen?

[BubblesTheMonkey]

I liked Lizzy. She was very simple and kind and a good character to contrast with Elizabeth.

[Lavender]

Iris wrote: "...There is a modern version of Pride and Prejudice and Darcy is a producer and Elizabeth is journalist who gets the role of Lizzie in the play and her sister is an actress. I haven't read all but from what I heard is Jane was the nice, gorgeous one who always needed a boyfriend, very traditional and Dependant, compared to a more independent Lizzie."

I would love to know more about the modern version of P&P. Who is the author, and does it have the same title? :)

[Kagama-the Literaturevixen]

Elizabeth wrote: "I read the review about Jane being lame and it made me laugh. She IS kind of the Pollyanna of the book. What did you guys think? "

True she is kind of too meek and mild,as opposed to Elizabeth that is.

Ive always felt that Jane and Mr.Bingley was supposed to be a contrast to Elizabeth and Mr Darcy.

While Jane is waiting and pining away for Bingley(who is equally undecisive,Mr Darcy has already proposed to Elizabeth.

And while its true she dont accept his proposal,they have a more lively relationship than Jane and Bingley.

[Elisa Santos]

Jane is the contrast to Lizzy - she is calm, cool, colected and gives the benefit of the doubt to everyone and everything.

I think Jane Austen created her as the prototype of what a woman should be, in those days, what was required of a woman of her station in life - that´s why it may sound a bit bland and "lame" as others have said. But i have to say that it kind of struck odd that she always chose the "maybe we did not understand correctley/ maybe there was a mistake/mis-comunication" type of excuse for the various and in-your-face situations when there was no double-meaning, whatsoever.

[Natasha]

Elizabeth wrote: "Did anyone else think that Jane in the BBC version looked like a Michaelangelo drawing of a woman? I remember always thinking that she had a very muscular neck. (This probably isn't very nice, but ..."

HAHA i'm so glad i'm not the only one to have thought that! i feel exactly the same, she had very broad shoulders too which keeps on distracting me...

[Breezy]

I thought it was just me!! Jane is the reason I have such a hard time appreciating this book for what it is. To me she is Elizabeth's antithesis. Elizabeth has depth, is colorful and passionate. Jane's naivete is obnoxious as she is in constant denial of any flaws in anybody. I love that she and Bingley are forever burdened by the Whickams. Precisely what they deserve when they enable bad behavior.

Please...convince me otherwise if you think I'm in the wrong here. I really want to love P&P, and would love to love Jane as elizabeth does.

[Breezy]

Mickey wrote: "I think how a modern audience reacts to characters like Jane Bennett (as someone who embodies the virtues of a different era) illustrates how the characteristics of the "ideal woman" have changed o..."

Well said. Perfectly explains my annoyance at Jane...and reinforces my gratitude that times have changed.

[Sallyavena]

Vittoria wrote: "I always thought that Bingley and Jane deserved each other. I wouldn't describe them as lame, I simply consider them to be rather passive characters. They never take a stand and fight for what they..."
I agree with this description of Jane (and Bingley). It's Mr. Bennett's assessment as well when he says something to the effect of the servants cheating them and their future children walking all over them.
It is Jane's ability to see good in everyone and everything that tempers Elizabeth though, in my opinion.

[Hannah]

I think that every story/book needs an Elizabeth charactor, a Jane charactor and a Kitty charactor-you need to have the right combination of charactors to have a realistic problem arise.

[Debra]

Lame? Why? She is the center point of all the Bennett woman. She is the ideal of Victorian womanhood. We can not impose on her our 21st century ideas of what a woman is or should be. While Elizabeth is opinionated and often myopic, Jane has her ideas, but often reminds the reader and Lizzie that others make their choices by a different standard. While one sister is overly religious, Jane lives that religion by practicing it's best tenents in word and action. Another sister is wild and has no sense of decorum and Jane is neither flashy nor condemns her. She is the balance to her family's craziness. A reader can't dismiss her as milquetoast or unimportant because without her we can not truly see Lizzie as she is or even the rest of the Bennetts. The story needs her and Jane Austen was a master at giving her stories what they needed.

[Elisa Santos]

I don´t love Jane as much as i do Lizzy, simply because of character therms - Jane is way too quiet for me! I guess we always have a favourite character and mine is Lizzy - her sharp tongue,wits and emotions make her my ideal of character.

[Jenna]

Each girl had her own personality, although Kitty was a Lydia wannabe. I saw Jane as "perfection" in terms of society at the time. She was beautiful, kept her feelings to herself (which is what led Darcy to separate them), and she's kind. Boring to be sure, but the story is really Elizabeth's anyway.

[Shelley]

There are no modern "versions" of Jane Austen. There is only one version of each Austen novel. The others are just knock-offs.

Shelley
Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com

[Kagama-the Literaturevixen]

Maria wrote: "I don´t love Jane as much as i do Lizzy, simply because of character therms - Jane is way too quiet for me! I guess we always have a favourite character and mine is Lizzy - her sharp tongue,wits an..."

I think maybe(not sure though)that Jane Bennett is based on Austens sister Cassandra who she was very close with.

We may think Jane is pretty simple and boring today,but couldnt it be Austen created the character as she percieved her sister and made the character too perfect and therefore boring.

Sense and sensibility also has the theme of two sisters who are extremely close yet very unlike each other.Elinor is the sensible one and Marieanne the one prone to act a bit un-sensible.

[Elisa Santos]

Kagama wrote: "Maria wrote: "I don´t love Jane as much as i do Lizzy, simply because of character therms - Jane is way too quiet for me! I guess we always have a favourite character and mine is Lizzy - her sharp ..."

The view that i have is that Austen created Jane as the perfect, the prototype of the woman of that time and society: how she should be, how she would behave, feel, think. She wass quiet, demure, shy, kept her thoughts to herself, her anguishes inside her, her victories, also.

[Kagama-the Literaturevixen]

Maria wrote: "Kagama wrote: "Maria wrote: "I don´t love Jane as much as i do Lizzy, simply because of character therms - Jane is way too quiet for me! I guess we always have a favourite character and mine is Liz..."

Yes precisely.

[Krista]

I view all the Pride and Prejudice characters, especially those in the Bennett family, as a microcosm of the world. Each character is so different from the other - these are the people we meet everyday, at work, school, church, PTO etc. and in our immediate and extended family. I swear that no matter what group I've been a part of, there are a few "types" of people and they act accordingly. I view Jane Bennet as the person who keeps the family from blowing up, she believes and hopes for the best and tries (with some crumbling around the edges) to believe that people have the best of intentions.

[Olga]

I was also thinking about Melanie in Gone With the Wind when I was reading this thread. Also it brought to mind 'Little Women', although probably all the characters (like them or not) are more developed, but Jo is definitely the rebellious one...
Great thread!

[Rosalind]

Jane really annoys me every time I read the book,because she is just so forgiving. I generally can't stand characters like that, and here I couldn't either. The funny thing is, I really liked Fanny from Mansfield Park, and she's Jane Austen's renowned goody-goody.

[Shelley]

I like it that an author as intelligent and sharp-minded as Austen could find it in her heart to admire someone as tender-hearted as Jane.

Shelley, Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com

[Sarah]

I agree about Jane. That's just how they wanted women back then. Funny I think Lizzy & Darcy were ahead of their times. To actually want to have a decent conversation with a partner & not just use her as needle pointing incubator.

Definately my personality would not have fit into the period setting of victorian era, even though I love to read & watch all to do with it. I like to have my say as well as have my man take charge, I love all round strength.

[Leah]

Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself...

[Hannah]

I never thought of that either, but you're right because she was engaged once but their parents convinced them not to marry.

[[deleted user]]

Hannah wrote: "I never thought of that either, but you're right because she was engaged once but their parents convinced them not to marry."
So Persuasion was based on a real-life experience?

[Tonya]

I think that Jane is the perfect sister for Lizzie. It's all about balance, and the two sister's personalities complement eachother well. Jane is the peacemaker, the one with quiet strength. She is as strong in her own way as Elizabeth is, even if we don't necessarily appreciate a "peace-at-all-costs" type of character. Anyone who can placate Mrs. Bennett (as she does after Lydia runs off) is a person who deserves some credit. And I disagree with the other people that say she is not as bright as Lizzie. I think she is just better at hiding her smarts, as was expected at the time.

[Victoria]

Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

hehe yeah. but it was and still is a common name.

[Leah]

Victoria wrote: "Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

hehe yeah. but it was and still is a common name."

I mean I can understand that someone around that time would name a character Jane but if I were writing a book I wouldn't name a character after myself

[Ree]

Leah wrote: "I mean I can understand that someone around that time would name a character Jane but if I were writing a book I wouldn't name a character after myself."

This is off topic, but try Paul Auster's New York Trilogy. It can be very intriguing to have the author's name and/or him as a character in the book.

Well, and Jane, I've always found her a bit annoying because her only flaw seemed to be flawless... Then again, Lydia was nothing but flaws, and she irritated me to no end.

[marlajanereads]

I'm slightly confused. Is the "Jane is lame" comment toward Jane Austen, or Jane Bennet? Perhaps it doesn't matter, considering I love both :)

Jane Austen basically created the round female character, as you can see in Elizabeth Bennet of P&P, Emma Woodhouse of Emma, and so forth. Whether you enjoy her writings or not, you cannot deny she played a significant role in making women the main characters in stories. Although there are stories featuring women as main characters before Austen, they are weak, shallow, and never change. Through her novels, Austen presents the female as a strong, deep, and evolving character. In turn, she changed the outlook on women in novels and, in my opinion, an important author to read.

As for Jane being too shallow or impersonal, Lizzy is the main focus of the entire story, thus the other sisters, including Jane, are not as strong. I think Jane contrasts Elizabeth in more than one way. While she may seem shallow, so do the other sisters, and basically everyone else outside of Elizabeth and Darcy. This is important to the growing relationship between Elizabeth and Darcy. Jane has her weaknesses, but when she is strong, it is in relation to Elizabeth. As a supporting character, she is everything she needs to be. Thus, Jane Bennet is my favorite character in the novel, after Elizabeth and Darcy.

[marlajanereads]

Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

I noticed it, but it never bothered me since I always get so wrapped up in the story :) As for Austen naming a character after herself, it probably didn't make a difference even back then, since Austen published the book anonymously.

[Leah]

Marla wrote: "Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

I noticed it, but it never bothered me since I..."

Oh. Really? That makes more sense if she originally published it anonymously.

[marlajanereads]

Marla wrote: "Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

I noticed it, but it never bothered me since I..."

Yep. She anonymously published all of her novels. Her brother Henry kept wanting to tell people (basically brag on her lol) but she wouldn't have it. He finally revealed her as the author after her death in 1817.

[Leah]

Marla wrote: "Marla wrote: "Leah wrote: "Jane rocked.

My only problem with her was how the author is named Jane also and that's a bit odd to name a character after herself..."

I noticed it, but it never bothe..."

Oh, well maybe she named a character after herself so that she would always be a part of the book, regardless of whether her name was on the cover or "anonymous" was. That's actually a really good idea for anonymous publishing...

[Colleen]

If Jane is so dumb, how come she questions Wickham's story while Lizzie swallows it whole?