Riku Sayuj's Reviews > The Symposium
The Symposium
by Plato
In Praise of Love: An Encore
This is a dialogue about the human aspiration towards happiness, and how that desire is best satisfied.
Plato’s overriding concern as a teacher is how to achieve eudamonia or how to live the good life. However, this is as difficult a topic to capture in teaching as it is to achieve in action. Hence he approaches the topic by defining many peripheral topics - by showing various aspects of the good life.
In The Symposium too the same ultimate question is approached, this time through the question of how to love perfectly. Many wonderful explanation of Love are given but in the end it boils down to how to live the good life through the question of what should one love to do and hence what should one do in life. The answer that emerges is simple - love only things that are ends in themselves, do only them. Ends-in-themselves are not to done for any further end, to achieve something else. And most importantly, they should be eternal.
Symposium: The Setting
Plato’s dialogues are fictional and often richly dramatic snippets of philosophical imagination. The Symposium is a particularly dramatic work. It is set at the house of Agathon, a tragic poet celebrating his recent poetic victory. Those present are amongst the intellectual elite of the day, including an exponent of heroic poetry (Phaedrus), an expert in the laws of various Greek states (Pausanias), a representative of medical expertise (Eryximachus), a comic poet (Aristophanes) and a philosopher (Socrates). And the political maverick Alcibiades towards the end.
The Symposium
The Symposium consists mainly of a series of praise speeches (encomia), delivered in the order in which these speakers are seated:

They begin with the discourse of Phaedrus, and the series contains altogether eight parts divided into two principal sequences:

The Speeches
1. Phaedrus: Love makes us noble and gods honor it. Love is the greatest god. Love is nobility. This is the simplest of the speeches.
An unconditional praising of Love and this from the same Phaedrus who unconditionally condemns it in his own eponymous dialogue !
2. Pausanias (perhaps the most interesting of these speeches for this reviewer): Wants to define Love before praising it. Love is not in itself noble and worthy of praise; it depends on whether the sentiments it produces in us are themselves noble. Differentiates between “Common Love” & “Divine Love”: How hasty vulgar lovers are, and therefore how unfair to their loved ones?
Pausanias goes on from this to provide a theory on the origins of Social Customs (of courtship, etc):
Makes one wonder if we should really be proud of our modern methods, sans the niceties of elaborate courtship.
3. Eryximachus: Differentiates between “Healthy” & “Unhealthy” Love, doctor that he is.
Everything sound and healthy in the body must be encouraged and gratified. Conversely, whatever is unhealthy and unsound must be frustrated and rebuffed: that’s what it is to be an expert in medicine.
4. Aristophanes: Bases Love on the conception of Longing & Completion - beautifully illustrated in his famous Myth of Soulmates: We used to be complete wholes in our original nature, and now “Love” is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete.
Plato also uses this occasion to make fun of Aristophanes by painting whims lewd and bawdy man, given to sensual pleasures and fits of hiccups. There are even direct references to Aristophanes’s irreverent clouds:
5. Agathon: Decides to stop the praising of Love and focus on the Qualities of Love -
He goes on toe elaborate on the perfection of Love’s qualities - about the god’s justice, moderation, bravery and wisdom - and how Love confers all these qualities to its devotees. Thus, Love is the source of all good, according to Agathon.
6. Socrates: Enough with the Eulogies!
Socrates sets out with a series of questions, in an attempt to pin down Love:
He proceeds through the same arguments as in Phaedrus and arrives at:
Socrates’ Conclusion: Love is a lack and desire to fill that. It is a desire for something lacking or a desire for preservation of what has been acquired. What constitutes eudaimonia is not to be had in a moment in time.
If this is the objective of Love, The next question is how to pursue this objective.
Answer: Seek Love in Beauty; and Reproduction and Birth, in Beauty - The argument does not deviate much from that in Phaedrus; readers will want to compare this speech on Love with those of Socrates in Phaedrus.
Socrates’ account thus moves from an analysis of the nature of such desire to an account of knowledge and its acquisition; for if we all have a desire for our own good and happiness, the issue becomes how to identify correctly the nature of this good. He defines intellectual activity to be the best good, and more central to human happiness than any other activity.
7. Alcibiades: An almost pointless speech, does not contribute much to the dialogue directly, and yet it does, by adding to the context:
Plato’s Political Intent: Praise Socrates & Distance Socrates from the follies of this young man.
Alcibiades’ account reveals that although he desires the wisdom he perceives in Socrates, there is a competing value pulling him away: “Yet when I leave him I am equally aware that I am giving in to my desire for honor from the public, so I skulk out of his sight like a runaway slave.”
This conflict between the attractions of wisdom and the sort of excellence that earns honour from the people is the very one argued out theoretically in Socrates’ speech. Alcibiades’ choice to organize his life around the pursuit of personal honor exonerates Socrates from any association with the terrible events that resulted from his choices. Socrates was not responsible for the corruption.
Plato’s Philosophical Intent: Also, show how even Socrates’ teachings are not flawless. Even Philosophy is dependent on good students to produce results.
Symposium: A Conclusion
The Symposium belongs with the dialogues concerned with Education, especially the moral education of the young. Its discussion of the nature and goals of loving relationships takes us to the heart of Plato’s concern with the good life and how it is achieved. That Education and Desires are seen to play such an important role in moral development draws on a theme elaborated in the Republic , and is concerned with the development of character and how that contributes to the good life.
Though Plato leads us to the lofty heights of the Forms as the true end of our desire for good things and happiness, his account is nonetheless one that resonates beyond such abstractions. The Symposium does not contain a fully developed theory of the self, although it outlines with considerable care the dimensions of concern which preoccupy human beings. Its achievement is a rich and unitary image of human striving.
Through this conception, even if narrow, of a flourishing life where certain things are advocated to the young as valuable, the dialogue explores the nature of eudaimonia, which may be translated as "happiness" or "flourishing". This is ultimately why a dialogue devoted, on the surface, to the nature of erotic relationships is an ethical work at its core, which culminates in the specification of ‘the life which a human being should live’. And it is this concern that relates the Symposium to a fundamental question that informs a variety of Platonic dialogues: How should one live?
Thus, Plato’s concern with desire and its role in the good life leads to his conclusion: One’s ability to act well and to lead a worthwhile and good life depends, in part, on desiring the right kinds of things and acting on that basis. What, or whom, one desires determines the choices one makes and thereby affects one’s chances of leading a worthwhile and happy life.
It is by prompting us to reflect more deeply on the relationship between our desires and their real end, and the role that our lovers might play in helping us to achieve it, that the Symposium really makes its mark.
by Plato
Riku Sayuj's review
bookshelves: philosophy, direct-phil, r-r-rs, translated, classics, plato
Jan 05, 2014
bookshelves: philosophy, direct-phil, r-r-rs, translated, classics, plato
Read from January 05 to 09, 2014
“It’s been less than three years that I’ve been Socrates’ companion and made it my job to know exactly what he says and does each day. Before that, I simply drifted aimlessly. Of course, I used to think that what I was doing was important, but in fact I was the most worthless man on earth—as bad as you are this very moment: I used to think philosophy was the last thing a man should do.”
In Praise of Love: An Encore
This is a dialogue about the human aspiration towards happiness, and how that desire is best satisfied.
Plato’s overriding concern as a teacher is how to achieve eudamonia or how to live the good life. However, this is as difficult a topic to capture in teaching as it is to achieve in action. Hence he approaches the topic by defining many peripheral topics - by showing various aspects of the good life.
In The Symposium too the same ultimate question is approached, this time through the question of how to love perfectly. Many wonderful explanation of Love are given but in the end it boils down to how to live the good life through the question of what should one love to do and hence what should one do in life. The answer that emerges is simple - love only things that are ends in themselves, do only them. Ends-in-themselves are not to done for any further end, to achieve something else. And most importantly, they should be eternal.
Symposium: The Setting
Plato’s dialogues are fictional and often richly dramatic snippets of philosophical imagination. The Symposium is a particularly dramatic work. It is set at the house of Agathon, a tragic poet celebrating his recent poetic victory. Those present are amongst the intellectual elite of the day, including an exponent of heroic poetry (Phaedrus), an expert in the laws of various Greek states (Pausanias), a representative of medical expertise (Eryximachus), a comic poet (Aristophanes) and a philosopher (Socrates). And the political maverick Alcibiades towards the end.
The Symposium
The Symposium consists mainly of a series of praise speeches (encomia), delivered in the order in which these speakers are seated:

They begin with the discourse of Phaedrus, and the series contains altogether eight parts divided into two principal sequences:

The Speeches
1. Phaedrus: Love makes us noble and gods honor it. Love is the greatest god. Love is nobility. This is the simplest of the speeches.
An unconditional praising of Love and this from the same Phaedrus who unconditionally condemns it in his own eponymous dialogue !
2. Pausanias (perhaps the most interesting of these speeches for this reviewer): Wants to define Love before praising it. Love is not in itself noble and worthy of praise; it depends on whether the sentiments it produces in us are themselves noble. Differentiates between “Common Love” & “Divine Love”: How hasty vulgar lovers are, and therefore how unfair to their loved ones?
"Love is, like everything else, complex: considered simply in itself, it is neither honorable nor a disgrace - its character depends entirely on the behavior it gives rise to. The common, vulgar lover loves the body rather than the soul, his love is bound to be inconstant, since what he loves is itself mutable and unstable. The moment the body is no longer in bloom, “he flies off and away,” his promises and vows in tatters behind him. How different from this is a man who loves the right sort of character, and who remains its lover for life, attached as he is to something that is permanent."
Pausanias goes on from this to provide a theory on the origins of Social Customs (of courtship, etc):
"We can now see the point of our customs: they are designed to separate the wheat from the chaff, the proper love from the vile. That’s why we do everything we can to make it as easy as possible for lovers to press their suits and as difficult as possible for young men to comply; it is like a competition, a kind of test to determine to which sort each belongs. This explains two further facts: First, why we consider it shameful to yield too quickly: the passage of time in itself provides a good test in these matters. Second, why we also consider it shameful for a man to be seduced by money or political power, either because he cringes at ill-treatment and will not endure it or because, once he has tasted the benefits of wealth and power, he will not rise above them. None of these benefits is stable or permanent, apart from the fact that no genuine affection can possibly be based upon them."
***
"Only in this case, we should notice, is it never shameful to be deceived; in every other case it is shameful, both for the deceiver and the person he deceives. Suppose, for example, that someone thinks his lover is rich and accepts him for his money; his action won’t be any less shameful if it turns out that he was deceived and his lover was a poor man after all. For the young man has already shown himself to be the sort of person who will do anything for money—and that is far from honorable. By the same token, suppose that someone takes a lover in the mistaken belief that this lover is a good man and likely to make him better himself, while in reality the man is horrible, totally lacking in virtue; even so, it is noble for him to have been deceived. For he too has demonstrated something about himself: that he is the sort of person who will do anything for the sake of virtue—and what could be more honorable than that? It follows, therefore, that giving in to your lover for virtue’s sake is honorable, whatever the outcome. And this, of course, is the Heavenly Love of the heavenly goddess. Love’s value to the city as a whole and to the citizens is immeasurable, for he compels the lover and his loved one alike to make virtue their central concern. All other forms of love belong to the vulgar goddess."
Makes one wonder if we should really be proud of our modern methods, sans the niceties of elaborate courtship.
3. Eryximachus: Differentiates between “Healthy” & “Unhealthy” Love, doctor that he is.
Everything sound and healthy in the body must be encouraged and gratified. Conversely, whatever is unhealthy and unsound must be frustrated and rebuffed: that’s what it is to be an expert in medicine.
4. Aristophanes: Bases Love on the conception of Longing & Completion - beautifully illustrated in his famous Myth of Soulmates: We used to be complete wholes in our original nature, and now “Love” is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete.
Plato also uses this occasion to make fun of Aristophanes by painting whims lewd and bawdy man, given to sensual pleasures and fits of hiccups. There are even direct references to Aristophanes’s irreverent clouds:
“Aristophanes, do you really think you can take a shot at me, and then escape? Use your head! Remember, as you speak, that you will be called upon to give an account. Though perhaps, if I decide to, I’ll let you off.”
5. Agathon: Decides to stop the praising of Love and focus on the Qualities of Love -
"For every praise, no matter whose: you must explain what qualities in the subject of your speech enable it to give the benefits for which we praise it. So now, in the case of Love, it is right for us to praise him first for what it is and afterwards for its gifts."
He goes on toe elaborate on the perfection of Love’s qualities - about the god’s justice, moderation, bravery and wisdom - and how Love confers all these qualities to its devotees. Thus, Love is the source of all good, according to Agathon.
6. Socrates: Enough with the Eulogies!
Socrates sets out with a series of questions, in an attempt to pin down Love:
“You have beautifully and magnificently expounded his qualities in other ways, tell me this, too, about Love. Is Love such as to be a love of something or of nothing?"
He proceeds through the same arguments as in Phaedrus and arrives at:
“No one is in need of those things he already has.”
***
“Whenever you say, I desire what I already have, ask yourself whether you don’t mean this: I want the things I have now to be mine in the future as well."
Socrates’ Conclusion: Love is a lack and desire to fill that. It is a desire for something lacking or a desire for preservation of what has been acquired. What constitutes eudaimonia is not to be had in a moment in time.
“In a word, then, love is wanting to possess the good forever.”
If this is the objective of Love, The next question is how to pursue this objective.
Answer: Seek Love in Beauty; and Reproduction and Birth, in Beauty - The argument does not deviate much from that in Phaedrus; readers will want to compare this speech on Love with those of Socrates in Phaedrus.
Socrates’ account thus moves from an analysis of the nature of such desire to an account of knowledge and its acquisition; for if we all have a desire for our own good and happiness, the issue becomes how to identify correctly the nature of this good. He defines intellectual activity to be the best good, and more central to human happiness than any other activity.
7. Alcibiades: An almost pointless speech, does not contribute much to the dialogue directly, and yet it does, by adding to the context:
Plato’s Political Intent: Praise Socrates & Distance Socrates from the follies of this young man.
Alcibiades’ account reveals that although he desires the wisdom he perceives in Socrates, there is a competing value pulling him away: “Yet when I leave him I am equally aware that I am giving in to my desire for honor from the public, so I skulk out of his sight like a runaway slave.”
This conflict between the attractions of wisdom and the sort of excellence that earns honour from the people is the very one argued out theoretically in Socrates’ speech. Alcibiades’ choice to organize his life around the pursuit of personal honor exonerates Socrates from any association with the terrible events that resulted from his choices. Socrates was not responsible for the corruption.
Plato’s Philosophical Intent: Also, show how even Socrates’ teachings are not flawless. Even Philosophy is dependent on good students to produce results.
Symposium: A Conclusion
The Symposium belongs with the dialogues concerned with Education, especially the moral education of the young. Its discussion of the nature and goals of loving relationships takes us to the heart of Plato’s concern with the good life and how it is achieved. That Education and Desires are seen to play such an important role in moral development draws on a theme elaborated in the Republic , and is concerned with the development of character and how that contributes to the good life.
Though Plato leads us to the lofty heights of the Forms as the true end of our desire for good things and happiness, his account is nonetheless one that resonates beyond such abstractions. The Symposium does not contain a fully developed theory of the self, although it outlines with considerable care the dimensions of concern which preoccupy human beings. Its achievement is a rich and unitary image of human striving.
Through this conception, even if narrow, of a flourishing life where certain things are advocated to the young as valuable, the dialogue explores the nature of eudaimonia, which may be translated as "happiness" or "flourishing". This is ultimately why a dialogue devoted, on the surface, to the nature of erotic relationships is an ethical work at its core, which culminates in the specification of ‘the life which a human being should live’. And it is this concern that relates the Symposium to a fundamental question that informs a variety of Platonic dialogues: How should one live?
Thus, Plato’s concern with desire and its role in the good life leads to his conclusion: One’s ability to act well and to lead a worthwhile and good life depends, in part, on desiring the right kinds of things and acting on that basis. What, or whom, one desires determines the choices one makes and thereby affects one’s chances of leading a worthwhile and happy life.
It is by prompting us to reflect more deeply on the relationship between our desires and their real end, and the role that our lovers might play in helping us to achieve it, that the Symposium really makes its mark.
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Lilo wrote: "Thank you, Riku, of giving me a glimpse of the philosophies of the old philosophers, which I won't have time to read myself (after putting off reading them for decades).And do me a favor: Tell me..."
My pleasure, Lilo. Thanks for the kind comment!
There was no falling out of grace, Socrates had been riling the elites from the start. It is speculated that Alcibiades (who was very close with S) defecting to the Spartan side in the war was the final straw, S was accused of 'corrupting the young' and convicted in a trial in which he refused to defend himself.
'The Apology' is the formal defense that Plato provides ex-post, but as I have written in the review above, Plato uses Alcibiades' speech expertly to show why Socrates' philosophy can fail, and why it is the fault of the student rather than the teacher - which I felt was mildly hypocritical since Plato always endorsed the view that if a student fails to grasp a teaching, it is always the teacher's fault.
Excellent review, Riku. I think I'm not afraid of approaching Plato and Socrates anymore. I'm yet to read your other review too. Soon soon. Can't wait to discuss the topic of love with these gentlemen.
Garima wrote: "Excellent review, Riku. I think I'm not afraid of approaching Plato and Socrates anymore. I'm yet to read your other review too. Soon soon. Can't wait to discuss the topic of love with these gentle..."That is wonderful to hear, Garima! They are not at all foreboding. and contain so many early echoes of later philosophers and thinkers that I cannot imagine how they have not been part of my self-education till now.
Riku wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Thank you, Riku, of giving me a glimpse of the philosophies of the old philosophers, which I won't have time to read myself (after putting off reading them for decades).And do me a f..."
Thank you so much for the info, Riku. Studying these old philosophers would be so interesting, but lacking time, I'll let you do this for me. :-)
Seriously, reading your excellent reviews is second-best to reading all these classics myself. You are really providing a great service.
May I ask what you do for a living? Could it be that you are a university professor? (Maybe for philosophy, theology, or history?) You are so enormously educated. I envy you. Unfortunately, when I was young and had time for such studies, I was more interested in competition dancing and Hollywood movies than doing any serious studying beyond college education.
Lilo wrote: "Thank you so much for the info, Riku. Studying these old philosophers would be so interesting, but lacking time, I'll let you do this for me. :-)Seriously, reading your excellent reviews is second-best to reading all these classics myself. You are really providing a great service.
May I ask what you do for a living? Could it be that you are a university professor? (Maybe for philosophy, theology, or history?) You are so enormously educated. I envy you. Unfortunately, when I was young and had time for such studies, I was more interested in competition dancing and Hollywood movies than doing any serious studying beyond college education. "
Ah, how I wish! :) Just one among the regular run-of-the-mill post-MBA professionals, unfortunately. Maybe I will get into a phd in philosophy or literature soon and escape, until then reading assuages the tedium.
I am so glad that you find my reviews useful, but I would recommend that you make time for at least The Republic. It is definitely worth sacrificing almost any other book's worth of reading time for.
I am glad you will be studying either philosophy or literature soon. Which would you prefer? I think either of it would suit you much better than anything with business. From the economic standpoint, literature would probably be more rewarding than philosophy.A German friend of mine (who had been living in America with ther famous doctor-husband) left her husband for a young American who had a masters degree in philosophy and went with him to Germany. There he could not set foot. Philosophy professors (and especially English-speaking ones) were not in demand. He ended up working in a shoe factory and the relationship failed. (I assume he went back to America at some time.) I faintly remember that, because of the very limited career aspects, he regretted having studied philosophy.
I just tried to check out The Republic but did not get further than your review of it (which I read and LIKEd but did not feel educated enough to comment to). Everytime I clicked on the book, it appeared, but then, within seconds, the screen went empty, no matter how often I tried. There must be something wrong with the site.
I have a few more question for you: Were Plato and Sokrates equals? Were they of similar age? Was The Republic written before or after Sokrates' demise? And how come Sokrates got so much in trouble with the elite while Plato (and others) didn't?
Sorry to hammer you with so many questions.
Lilo wrote: "From the economic standpoint, literature would probably be more rewarding than philosophy."Looking at the economic standpoint is why I landed up in b-schools in the first place. Have to learn to keep aside that consideration.
Lilo wrote: "I just tried to check out The Republic but did not get further than your review of it (which I read and LIKEd but did not feel educated enough to comment to). Everytime I clicked on the book, it appeared, but then, within seconds, the screen went empty, no matter how often I tried. There must be something wrong with the site.
I have a few more question for you: Were Plato and Sokrates equals? Were they of similar age? Was The Republic written before or after Sokrates' demise? And how come Sokrates got so much in trouble with the elite while Plato (and others) didn't? "
That is strange. Do try some other time, must be a site problem as you said.
Socrates was Plato's teacher and they were widely separated in age. Plato must have been in his early thirties when Socrates was executed. All of his dialogues are supposed to be written after Socrates' death, beginning as a reaction against it, then as a chronicle of Socrates' ideas, before maturing into independent and bold forays of his own.
Plato too got into trouble, he is supposed to have left Athens and returned after things calmed down a little. The fact might just be that he was too insignificant a figure at the time when the traitors where being ferreted out and tried. He became important much later and by that time the political situation must have moved from the frenzy of executions. In any case, he continued to dabble in real-life politics (example with Dionysius), but it never paid off and he remained an academic figure. In fact, we don't have much on Plato except for his writings, and even in those he is a marginal figure. There is even speculation that he chose the dialogue medium to couch his messages even more safely. In any case, the political ambitions were eventually realized in his pupil's pupil (Alexander) who went on to conquer the world, though in the end Plato is much more a world conqueror than any emperor who has ever lived.
Thank you, Riku. This was really informative and enlightening.And if I should live past age 100, which I plan, I might really read all the old philosophers. :-) Seriously, it is really tempting.
One more question: What was the main problem the rulers had with the philosophers? Was it that they were afraid they might challenge their positions and/or undermine their power? I know there was this thesis that philosophers should run the government. (Not a bad idea by the way.) Was this it?
It is scary that a democratic system can also have a frenzy of executions. (I sometimes wonder if a "good king" wouldn't be the best form of government.)
And it is entirely new to me that Alexander the Great was a pupil of a pupil of Plato.
We started 3-times with the old Greeks when I was in Gymnasium (= high school and college combined). Yet I don't think I was mature enough, at the time, to get too much interested in them. Or the teachers were bad. I am not sure. Hard to tell after more than half a century.
Lilo wrote: "What was the main problem the rulers had with the philosophers? Was it that they were afraid they might challenge their positions and/or undermine their power? I know there was this thesis that philosophers should run the government. (Not a bad idea by the way.) Was this it?"Well, I am not an expert and this is still unresolved... but the basic idea was that Athens had just lost the Peloponnesian War and was reeling from it. Like all governments, a time of crisis is a time to clamp down and get as conservative as possible (ref Bush), and they decided that any influential political critic (like Socrates) was an enemy of Athens. [He was supposed to have distinct anti-democratic tendencies, later developed by Plato]. Of course, the official line was that he 'corrupting the youth' (ref Alcibiades above) and 'disrespecting the gods'.
As for the thesis that philosophers should run the government - it is not clear if Socrates preached that or if Plato invented it by himself. But if Socrates did preach it, it could have been taken as a sort of treason, I guess...
Lilo wrote: "And it is entirely new to me that Alexander the Great was a pupil of a pupil of Plato."
Socrates => Plato => Aristotle => Alexander :) order of pupils, and probably of greatness!
Lilo wrote: "We started 3-times with the old Greeks when I was in Gymnasium"
Wow. Plato keeps talking about Gymnasium education - great to hear that the term is still in use. Where was this?
Lilo wrote: "Or the teachers were bad. I am not sure. Hard to tell after more than half a century. "
Not sure If I cracked this joke already, but every student can call Plato to the witness box against their teachers. Plato vouches that it is always the teacher's fault!
btw, thank you so much for you interest Lilo! It is really flattering.
Thank you, Riku. You are really doing a lot for my academic education, which I neglected when I went to school and should have studied more. (And here I am not joking. I really mean it.)Gymnasium is the general name for the different school types in Germany that are a combination of high school and college.
Humanistisches Gymnasium teaches (amongst other subjects, of course) Latin, Greek, and English.
Realgymnasium (that I attended) teaches English, Latin, and French
Oberrealschule (leaning more towards science subjects) teaches English, French, and Latin (the latter as optional subject)
The above 3 school types graduate with the Abitur, which enables students to attend university and choose academic careers.
There are also school types (mainly for adults) which end with a somewhat "castrated" Abitur, which only allows attending Universities of Applied Sciences.
(Realschule is only high school. It does not contain a college part, does not graduate with Abitur and, thus, does NOT allow attending university.)
If Plato said that it is always the teacher's fault, I herewith proclaim myself a Plato-fan. ... No, I better not because I was a teacher myself. :-)
Lilo wrote: "Thank you, Riku. You are really doing a lot for my academic education, which I neglected when I went to school and should have studied more. (And here I am not joking. I really mean it.)Gymnasium..."
Thanks for detailing this out. It shows how limited the Indian education system is in comparison, especially in terms of choice of studies in early education.
Lilo wrote: "Thank you, Riku. You are really doing a lot for my academic education, which I neglected when I went to school and should have studied more. (And here I am not joking. I really mean it.)Gymnasium..."
Hope you don't mind if I use parts of this comment whenever I write a bit on our educational system...
Of course not. Go ahead. But keep in mind that I did not go into fine details and that my description is by the stand of the 1970s. They keep making changes. They shouldn't be major changes, but changes still.
Riku wrote: "It is by prompting us to reflect more deeply on the relationship between our desires and their real end, and the role that our lovers might play in helping us to achieve it, that the Symposium really makes its mark."Hear, hear! These dialogues and your wonderful reviews are really helpful in trying to define the relationship between desire, lust and love.
Ian wrote: "Riku wrote: "It is by prompting us to reflect more deeply on the relationship between our desires and their real end, and the role that our lovers might play in helping us to achieve it, that the S..."Thanks, Ian! Glad you liked them. Will bring out more on popular demand :)
Ian wrote: "Where do you find them?"I have a full set of Plato and Aristotle works. Bought long ago...
And in case you were being funny, I find the reviews by deep meditation and direct contact, it is a transcendent experience. hard to describe!
Ian wrote: "I thought you meant that you had a whole lot of reviews written, but hadn't posted them yet."Haha. No no. But I do have variations on the reviews already posted, reserved in case I can one day make a thesis out of them :)
Mai wrote: "more than one thank you, I like your review as much as symposium itself :-)"Thanks, Mai! I am glad you enjoyed it so much, and also that you liked Symposium. Plato is an amazing writer.
Rowena wrote: "Your book reviews on the Greek philosophers have really inspired me to read them. Thank you:)"Thanks! I will look forward to see if you enjoy them (and contest you if you don't!) :)
I'm sure I'll love them, Riku! I really enjoyed the Plato I read last year. I think I'll read more Greek philosophy after I finish reading The Iliad and The Odyssey. Any recommendations as to what I should read first?
Rowena wrote: "I'm sure I'll love them, Riku! I really enjoyed the Plato I read last year. I think I'll read more Greek philosophy after I finish reading The Iliad and The Odyssey. Any recommendations as to what ..."Definitely The Iliad - Then you can enter the more disjointed world of Odyssey already knowing all the fellows!
I would recc the Fagles trans. My review, in case it helps: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
(I am currently going through the Mitchell trans (of Odyssey first) to see which works better, will be putting that up soon.)



And do me a favor: Tell me what was it that made Sokrates fall out of grace so that they forced him to drink poison hemlock? I forgot.