Good news: Disney no longer has control of the Narnia film franchise; I think they gave it to Fox instead. So...Fox will eventually be filming this book. Yay?

OK God, you got me. Um... cancel my previous request; could I change that to: please don't let Disney, Fox, Peter Jackson or, indeed, anyone but Pedro Almodóvar film it? Though I bet the language isn't tight enough yet. If only I had a lawyer, I'd ask him to check my prayers before sending them off.

My then 8 year old daughter refused to continue after a few chapters because "the story is too creepy". Maybe I'll try again later.

I agree, it is rather creepy! Digory's fascination with the Witch is in some ways even worse than Edmund's.

Manny wrote: "I agree, it is rather creepy! Digory's fascination with the Witch is in some ways even worse than Edmund's."

I hope she'll change her mind, now that she's 9. I've never read it and I'd love to read it with her.

Has anyone read The Book of Three or any of the other Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander? I found these after I found Narnia (in books not in back of wardrobe) and loved them. Perhaps your children would enjoy them too?

Shovelmonkey1 wrote: "Has anyone read The Book of Three or any of the other Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander? I found these after I found Narnia (in books not in back of wardrobe) and loved them. Pe..."

I haven't read them. Do they have fauns in them? My daughter thinks that they're very creepy.

No fauns but they are brilliant and I am going to re-read them at some point.

Shovelmonkey1 wrote: "No fauns but they are brilliant and I am going to re-read them at some point."

Maybe I'll try them, then. Thanks for the recommendation.

I think there are five books to be read in this order:
1.The books of Three,
2.The Black Cauldron,
3.The castle of Lyr,
4.Taran Wanderer
and 5.the High King... at least I'm not aware of any more than that in the series.

Manny wrote: "But why did C.S. Lewis decide to make her a woman? I'd love to know the background to that artistic decision."

The name Jadis is from the French "jadis" which means "of old." Wikipedia says the name could be [edit: indirectly] from the Turkish word for witch [edit: hag]. Maybe Shovelmonkey, who knows a bit about Turkish, can comment on whether she thinks that's a good guess or not. But Hans Christian Andersen's Snow Queen and H. Rider Haggard's novel She are mentioned as inspirations. Jadis certainly does make me think of the Snow Queen in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

One of the Narnia books hints that she was descended from Lilith, Adam's first wife before Eve who rebelled and eventually became a fearsome female demon, according to Jewish folklore. Jadis is also supposed to be part djinn and part giant.

So maybe Lewis was just cobbling together bits of evil gleaned from various folklores, both eastern and western. The other books are certainly characterized by a mix of mythologies--that was one thing Tolkien didn't like about the Narnia series. I think however, that Jadis is a particularly strong character.

To the best of my knowledge the word jadis does not mean "witch " in Turkish particularly since the Turkish language has no letter J. Caddessi which is pronounced ja-deh-see means street or way. Jadis might ne Ottoman rather than modern Turkish? Büyücü is a more common term for witch or wizard . Cadi means hag ( pronounced jad-uh)

Shovelmonkey1 wrote: "To the best of my knowledge the word jadis does not mean "witch " in Turkish particularly since the Turkish language has no letter J. Caddessi which is pronounced ja-deh-see means street or way. Ja..."

Thank you!

Not so sure about the French derivation. Jadis means more "once" as in "once, long ago" and is an adverb, so it seems odd. Good point about the Snow Queen though. Hm, Milton's Satan crossed with the Snow Queen feels just about right to me!

Richard wrote: "Shovelmonkey1 wrote: "To the best of my knowledge the word jadis does not mean "witch " in Turkish particularly since the Turkish language has no letter J. Caddessi which is pronounced ja-deh-see m..."

Any time!

Manny wrote: "Good point about the Snow Queen though. Hm, Milton's Satan crossed with the Snoq Queen Feels just about right to me!"

I think I agree with you on this, not having considered the question before. I am pleased to see that no one jumped on the sexism bandwagon though. Lewis has received criticism for being sexist for other parts of the Narnia series, but it is my personal belief that those who make those comments could not have read “A Greif Observed.” I don’t believe Lewis considered the perception of making the antagonist a woman, as we do nowadays. I would believe there was an inspiration, like the Snow Queen, that lead to his character. She would be perfect for his simple symbolism of winter/death vs. spring/life, played out in LW&W. I think he would use the inspiration of the Snow Queen to create that clear contrast for young readers. I also wouldn’t be surprised if there was some Norse giant inspiration mixed in (Good point Richard!). Not having the time to google it right now, but isn’t there a queen of the ice giants that Jadis would resemble? I feel like there is, but I can’t remember.

I took a look at the Wikipedia article that Richard mentioned. The author seems sure that Lewis used Haggard's She as part of his inspiration and quotes an essay I haven't read in support of this. But he doesn't mention Milton at all. This seems really odd to me. Given that Aslan is transparently Jesus, and the Witch is his adversary, how can she not be Satan? Particularly since she turns up in the Garden of Eden at the start of the world. It's inconceivable to me that Lewis wouldn't have known Milton well, and in terms of character she reminds me strongly of Milton's creation.

Manny wrote: "I took a look at the Wikipedia article that Richard mentioned. The author seems sure that Lewis used Haggard's She as part of his inspiration and quotes an essay I haven't read in support of this. ..."

He was the prof of Medieval Renaissance at Cambridge and Magdalene for 30 years focusing on the late middle ages (Dante and Chaucer). Milton wrote in a time a little after his specialty, but he surely would have known it.

My impression is that that generation all grew up reading Milton. A striking example is E. Nesbit's Wet Magic, where the kids can quote "Sabrina fair" from Comus verbatim.

The Snow Queen is a bit sexy though isn't she? Aslan is not, perfectly asexual. Not sure if Lewis meant it though..

Alan wrote: "The Snow Queen is a bit sexy though isn't she? Aslan is not, perfectly asexual. Not sure if Lewis meant it though.."

Oh, I'm sure there are sexual overtones. The description of how Edmund looks after gorging on Turkish Delight, to take the first example that comes to mind...

yes, I think the White Witch may have warped me like Edmund (I read it when I was about 10). I'm always looking for some sharp featured woman with icicles to give me a ride in her sleigh.

"Love is a stranger in an open sleigh", as Annie Lennox maybe had it in the first draft...

... and I'm also reminded of the young Woody Allen falling for the Wicked Stepmother in Snow White :)

I would hate to do Tilda Swinton out of a job, but if you want a witch or a bitch you can really, truly hate, it has to be Nicole Kidman.

Manny wrote: "... and I'm also reminded of the young Woody Allen falling for the Wicked Stepmother in Snow White :)"

oh yes now you're talking.

Manny wrote: "Not so sure about the French derivation. Jadis means more "once" as in "once, long ago" and is an adverb, so it seems odd. Good point about the Snow Queen though. Hm, Milton's Satan crossed with th..."

If by the snow queen you mean the white witch in the lion the witch and the wardrobe Jadis and she are the same person surely. Jadis, in arriving in Narnia at its birth, brings evil in and then goes and steals an apple from the garden which gives her immortality though that immortality comes at the cost of any possibility of satisfied joy in her life.

Yes, Jadis is the White Witch. (I believe she is referred to as such by name in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe). The question is the extent to which she is based on Hans Christian Andersson's Snow Queen...

Manny wrote: "Yes, Jadis is the White Witch. (I believe she is referred to as such by name in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe). The question is the extent to which she is based on Hans Christian Andersson's..."

ah I see but that is what threw me cos Richard doesn't say the snow queen from Hans Christian Andersen but the snow Queen from the Lion, the witch and the Wardrobe.

' Jadis certainly does make me think of the Snow Queen in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.'

Thanks for clarification though re-reading the comment from Richard I can see the above quote from him was maybe just a typo cos he had mentioned HCA already earlier in comment. Cheers

This is my favorite book in the series. Interestingly enough, it was also the last one Lewis wrote. While Jadis and The Lady of Green Kirtle aren't meant to be the same character, they're certainly the most interesting characters in the series. I never cared for the children.

Female villains that aren't motivated by beauty, men, or money. In a way, she reminds me of Galadriel, or what Galadriel said she'd become if she obtained the ring. Perhaps Tolkien and Lewis were inspired by each other?

Cory wrote: "This is my favorite book in the series. Interestingly enough, it was also the last one Lewis wrote. While Jadis and The Lady of Green Kirtle aren't meant to be the same character, they're certainly..."

excellent point re Galadriel and you are right Tolkien and Lewis were mates and in the same literary circle.

she reminds me of Galadriel, or what Galadriel said she'd become if she obtained the ring.

What an interesting thought! That had never occurred to me, but I agree, it fits very well.

indeed I read somewhere that Tolkien was peeved that Lewis brought Narnia ou; feeling that it was somehow heavily influenced by his own Middle-earth but that Lewis stole his thunder by bringing Narnia out earlier. Not sure if that is true but I recall reading it,

Mark wrote: "indeed I read somewhere that Tolkien was peeved that Lewis brought Narnia ou; feeling that it was somehow heavily influenced by his own Middle-earth but that Lewis stole his thunder by bringing Nar..."

I know tolkien wasn't fond of Narnia, but i believe it was more to do with the melding of mythologies. tolkien didn't like mixing greek/irish/norse mythologies in one story like Lewis did. tolkien was a bit of purist that way.

Brandon wrote: "Mark wrote: "indeed I read somewhere that Tolkien was peeved that Lewis brought Narnia ou; feeling that it was somehow heavily influenced by his own Middle-earth but that Lewis stole his thunder by..."

oh ok. That would probably make more sense than my 'Tolkien has a queeny fit and storms off' theory

A few days ago i downloaded onto my mini ipod an audiobook of this one, which is one of my favourites of the series, read by Kenneth Branagh. Jadis has just wangled her way into London. Its quite a fun way of encountering all the books again

The White Witch is also Bellatrix Lestrange, Narnia-fied, and even more dangerous. JKR may have taken a few hints from the White Witch. The WW is explicitly described as very beautiful, as is Bellatrix. The WW is not someone it is safe to cross, and in our world she has the Superman-like quality of remarkable strength. Which she had put to use in her own by blasting her sister & her sister's armies into oblivion. Which is certainly one way to Conquer the World. But it would not get her many dinner invitations. In our world, she single-handedly plucks a lamp-post from the pavement, and brains a policemen with it - who, rather surprisingly, appears not to be killed. Her attempts in Narnia to kill Aslan with a similar projectile are an epic fail, at which point she does a runner, until her next & last appearance in the book.
I have not read the book for a long time, so a reader's ability to recall so much about Jadis the WW is a testimony to Lewis' ability to create a very memorable - if extremely unpleasant - character.
Polly has a Hermione-ish tendency of not wasting sympathy on the WW, even when the WW's green kryptonite - the experience of leaving her own world for The Wood Between The Worlds - affects the WW. As before, Digory makes a hash of things, by feeling sorry for the WW, giving her time to get over her kryptonite, grab the children and hang on to them, & enter our world with them.
Which shows that Lewis can draw strong female characters. The female characters all influence the course of the story, from the god-mother of Uncle Andrew, to Digory's sick mother.
Talking of whom: had she not been mortally sick, Digory would not have needed an apple from Narnia, and would not have an apple core to bury, which would not have become the tree than provided the wood for the wardrobe through which the Pevensies enter Narnia 50 or so years (by our time) later. An event in Narnia can have an effect in our our world, and contrariwise: a good example of how Christian belief in Divine Providence can be turned to account to become an element in a story.
This book is probably my favourite of the 7. I like stories about beginnings, that explain how the arrangements in a tale come to be as they are. This book explains how the world of which Narnia is part came to be, and something of why it is as it is by the time of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe".
Jadis is a sort of Lilith in reverse. The Babylonian demoness Lilitu (the source of the name, which means "demoness") was feared as a snatcher of infants; in this story, the "infants" find her, and one of them insists on ringing the bell that wakes her from her enchanted sleep. She takes hold of them - and eventually, comes into what-becomes-the world-of-Narnia with them. Hilarity alone does not ensue, for that world is now provided with an enemy - though she causes trouble only after long years have passed.

Given that Aslan is transparently Jesus, and the Witch is his adversary, how can she not be Satan? Particularly since she turns up in the Garden of Eden at the start of the world. It's inconceivable to me that Lewis wouldn't have known Milton well, and in terms of character she reminds me strongly of Milton's creation.

## Perhaps because Satan is:
1. Not the opposite of Jesus - though satan is against Jesus. Satan is like a rebellious viceroy - not like an opposing king. Satan, being only an angel, is the opposite of Michael, who is also only an angel: not of Jesus.
2. "the enemy" par excellence; unlike the WW, who is but one of several enemies, of different kinds, that Narnia has to cope with.
The Garden on the Mountain is a taboo place - but it is not where the first humans dwell. Its function is to be the place, inaccessible historically, in which the Apple of Youth is found; and can be found only by a traveller who enjoys super-human assistance. As Digory does.
In the story, it also functions as the place of his opportunity to make up for his weakness in sounding the bell in Charn, when he had no reason to sound it; but in the Garden, he resists the Witch's temptation, even though he could have excused himself for so doing because doing so would have helped his mother. And he finds that the harder course was the right one to take, for him, and his mother.
It is almost more like the enchanted gardens of Renaissance epics, which ultimately derive, by way of Homer & Virgil & the Bible, from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The imagery is many-layered - this is one of its attractions.
FWIW, Lewis wrote "A Preface to Paradise Lost" - he was well aware of Milton's poem.

Given that it was Eve who ate the apple (supposedly), and thereby doomed mankind to wickedness, how could someone touting Christian theology so clearly in his children's books make his villain anyone but a beautiful woman? After all, the historically male poetic view is that woman is the temptress, the Other, that mysterious force that compels and lures a man to his doom. The Witch is both Eve and the serpent (tempting Digory with sly manipulations), so of course she's a woman who is hard to resist. *eye roll at Lewis, even though I liked the book, especially Branagh's animal voices*

It hadn't occurred to me that she might be Eve as well! Good point. I will have to think about that.

The reference to her as half giant, half djinn, suggests that she may also be a Lilith figure - Lilith being Adam's first wife, before Eve. And Lilith is herself a Judaised version of the Babylonian demoness Lilitu, who was thought to snatch babies.

Mr Beaver says that explicitly in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe:

“That’s what I don’t understand, Mr. Beaver,” said Peter. “I mean isn’t the Witch human?”

“She’d like us to believe it,” said Mr. Beaver, “and that’s how she is trying to call herself Queen. But she’s no Daughter of Eve. She comes from your father Adam’s first wife, Lilith. She was one of the Jinn. On the other side she comes from the giants. No, there isn’t a drop of real human blood in the Witch.”

This series isn't very friendly to women or girls, IMO. No woman or girl with any real power is painted sympathetically., and yet I've seen the series listed as "feminist." Lewis was a brilliant man, a brilliant thinker and writer, and I value his work for its charm and its long-term influence on the genre -- but he didn't have a feminist bone in his body. Of course the White Witch is female. That's what makes her terrible.