Will Byrnes's Reviews > Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

I hate the term "Brit" Will. Lynne Truss is English!

Please explain why the term is offensive. I had no idea there was any negative edge to it.

No, it's not offensive at all Will. It just doesn't sound nice that's all! We get called Brits all over the world. The French still refer to us as Anglo saxons (in French that is). I'm proud of the fact that I'm English, born in London and used to live in England. It's just me in this case.

Whew! We have no desire to give offense...unless of course one is a Tea Bagger sort or a religious extremist. Then the offenses will be let fly.

But if I were a Tea Bagger, how would you react?

Unkindly

I use this with high school kids. Assign it to all my student teachers.

You might also check out https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lets-e...

This is the most delightful book on punctuation that I can imagine!

It really is

I was having a sip of my drink as I read these comments. My poor laptop now needs to be cleaned! Will, you are awesome!

P.S I should really read this book as I am AWFUL with punctuation. Of course, people can probably already tell that from my reviews. I can give my thoughts but can't always remember where the comma goes :P

What was it about

Unkindly baha love it

Deanna wrote: "I was having a sip of my drink as I read these comments. My poor laptop now needs to be cleaned! Will, you are awesome!

P.S I should really read this book as I am AWFUL with punctuation. Of cours..."
I think we could all use some help with this stuff.

Loved this book and love your review.

Thanks, Renita. It really is a wonderful book.

What a fun little review :)

Funny

hii know this is not about the book ,Will but thanks for accepting my friend request so quick

:-)

you ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!! - tommy

Will, I'm one of those weird people others ask to proofread their writings. This book was wonderful to me. Sometimes I read a page or two just to find peace.

Nothing weird about that. I can never post a review without going back and finding what seems an endless array of errors of one sort and another. Should there be a comma before "of?"

No.

I had a smiley face after the above no, but it disappeared!

:-(

I just picked this up from the library a few days ago - glad to see you liked it.

I started reading it a while ago but put it down for something more exciting though. Perhaps I should try again. lololol.

I am kind of "special needs" in English punctuation. Would this book help me, or would it send me to the loony bin?

It would give you something good to read in your rubber room.

As an editor, I really appreciate people who appreciate punctuation. In fact, yesterday I posted this lament:

@ Betsy and Will: You convinced me. I just bought the book.

I DO appreciate correct punctuation (and correct spelling and correct grammar). However, it is not easy for an (almost) 76-year-old ESL writer to learn English punctuation rules; especially, since many grammar sites contradict each other. Apart from this, I find that authors (or editors?) of books I read don't follow punctuation rules as laid out in grammar books and on grammar sites. It is really confusing. Maybe the above book will help.

Love your above post. I am not sure whether I always set these apostrophes correctly. I probably did, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

I faintly remember the story when a life was saved by omitting (or setting?) a comma. I think it was something about a prisoner to be released in Russia during the revolution. Do you know this story? It would make a nice blog.

@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (and reviews) I read seem to do so at random.

I recently bought "The Chicago Manual of Style", but it is so very difficult to find in it what I need. Yet simpler grammar books (I own 8 of them) rarely answer the questions I have.

Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (and reviews) I read seem to do so at random.

I recentl..."

Chicago Manual has just about everything, but sometimes the dictionary is faster. Proper names (Democratic Party) are always capitalized, but adjectives or nouns (democrat) are not. That's all in the dictionary. Between Chicago and Webster's, you've got everything you need to know, I think. Good luck, Lilo. Stay at it. The more you use these books, the easier they get.

Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (and reviews) I read seem to do so at rando..."

Thank you, Betsy. Your info will help for the time being.

My problem with "The Chicago Manual of Style" is that I bought it so late, that is, AFTER I finished repeatedly proofreading and editing my three books I wrote in English language (with the help of my 8 grammar books and numerous grammar websites). By this time I was so totally fed up with studying punctuation that I didn't dig into "The Chicago Manual of Style".

I presently don't write because my existing books are still not published. My husband (a do-it-yourselfer) had talked me into self-publishing, promising he would take care of all the technicalities. (I am a 105% technical/digital idiot.) But we have been haunted by Murphy's Law (wildfire, flooding, destructive tenants, insurance issues, health problems, etc.--you name it, we have had it), so my husband has been very busy with other things, and I am, meanwhile, too old to aim for traditional publishing. (I was published traditionally, in Germany, several decades ago.)

Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (and reviews) I read seem to ..."

It's still not too late to have a professional editor who knows Chicago like a bible go over it. (I'm not peddling services; I'm just suggesting.) The problem with the majority of self-published books is that, because they aren't professionally edited, they look amateurish. I've given up trying to read anything self-published because it makes my editor's brain scream. You might look for somebody at Editorial Freelancers Association. The direct link where you can put in key words (i.e., historical nonfiction) and search for someone with a background in history is http://www.the-efa.org/dir/search.php. Good luck, Lilo. And thanks for accepting my friendship.

Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (and reviews) I ..."

Thanks for all the info.

I had a professional editor for my early-childhood memoir and paid him $ 540.--. It was a catastrophe. He turned my manuscript into a school essay, if not a police report. He did NOT correct my faulty punctuation. The only corrections he made were of one and the same type, and these corrections were clearly WRONG.

I eventually received a gift-edit from a dear GR friend (author of several dozen traditionally published books). I was, and still am, very grateful for his edit. It helped a lot. However, he went by different punctuation rules than I found in any of my books or on any of the grammar websites. (He is 80+ years old. Punctuation rules might have changed since he went to school and college.)

With what I learned from this gift-edit, I edited my novella myself. It should be fairly o.k.

My short memoir, "The Anniversary", is written in a very special style (narrative mixed with thought reflexions). I would like to retain this special style. I found an editor not too far off from where we live. We have planned that she comes to visit (we live in a paradise-like area) and combines the editing, sitting next to me, with a vacation. It just hasn't come to be yet because of Murphy's Law (see above!).

Btw, the editor who produced the catastrophic edit is an English professor and humor writer. Before I hired him, I had signed up with a different company. The publishing package deal included editing. The editing sample I received was unusable. It distorted facts and killed humorous undertones. Unfortunately, I didn't ask for a sample edit from the English professor because I didn't think it was necessary.

Several author GR friends had similar experiences. For this reason, I would prefer an editor who sits next to me, and we can discuss changes. Either this, or I'll just try to improve my punctuation and do without an editor.

Due to my advanced age, I no longer aim at a career as a writer. I mainly want to share my thoughts and experiences. So my books should be in fair shape but need not be perfect.

Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats. The books (a..."

Lilo, I get it. And I applaud you. Your comments are articulate and I'm sure your books will be wonderful. One picky editor's note: commas and periods go inside the quotation marks.

Go girl!

Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Betsy wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Betsy: I also have severe problems with capitalizing. So for instance, I never know when to capitalize republicans or democrats...."

Thank you, Betsy.

I know about the rule that commas and periods go inside the quotation marks but I found one grammar site (forget which one) that allows to put them outside in certain cases. Besides, I so hate this senseless, old rule, which originates from tiny type-set commas and periods falling on the floor when not constrained by quotation marks, that I am ready to defy it. (Same with the English rule to continue without capital letters after a colon, no matter if the following is a whole sentence.) I could see Britain clinging so much to tradition, but America! It's about time to get rid of this out-dated rule.

I am stubborn enough to defy rules when I consider them senseless, even if this might cost me the Pullitzer prize or the Nobel prize for my writings. :-)