Richard Derus's Reviews > The Symposium
The Symposium
by Plato
by Plato
Rating: 2* of five, all for Aristophanes's way trippy remix of the Book of Genesis
While perusing a review of Death in Venice (dreadful tale, yet another fag-must-die-rather-than-love piece of normative propaganda) written by my good friend Stephen, he expressed a desire to read The Symposium before he eventually re-reads thiscrapulous homophobic maundering deathless work of art. As I have read The Symposium with less than stellar results, I warned him off. Well, see below for what happened next.
Stephen wrote: "Damn...can you do a quick cliff notes summary or maybe a video lecture? I would much rather take advantage of your previous suffering than have to duplicate it."
THE SYMPOSIUM
So this boring poet dude wins some big-ass prize and has a few buds over for a binge. They're all lying around together on couches, which is as promising a start to a story as I can think of, when the boys decide to stay sober (boo!) and debate the Nature of Luuuv.
Phaedrus (subject of a previous Socratic dialogue by Plato) gives a nice little speech, dry as a popcorn fart, about how Love is the oldest of the gods, and Achilles was younger than Patroclus, and Alcestis died of love for her husband, and some other stuff I don't remember because I was drifting off, and so I got up to see if I would stay awake better on the patio. It was a little nippy that day.
So next up is the lawyer. I know, right? Ask a lawyer to talk about love! Like asking a priest to talk about honor, or a politician to talk about common decency! So he pontificates about pederasty for a while, which made me uncomfortable, so I got up to get some coffee. I may have stopped by the brandy bottle on the way back out, I can't recall.
So after the lawyer tells us when *exactly* it's okay for a grown man to pork a teenager, the doctor chimes in that luuuuuv is the drug, it's everything, man, the whole uuuuuuuniiiiiveeeeeeeeeerse is luuuuv. Who knew they had hippies in those days? I needed more brandy, I mean coffee!, and the text of my ancient Penguin paperback was getting smaller and smaller for some reason, so I went tolook for the brandy get the magnifying glass so I could see the footnotes.
Then comes Aristophanes. Now seriously, this is a good bit. Aristophanes, in Plato's world, tells us why we feel whole, complete, when we're with our true love: Once upon a time, we were all two-bodied and two-souled beings, all male, all female, or hermaphroditic. When these conjoined twins fell into disfavor, Zeus cleaved them apart, and for all eternity to come, those souls will wander the earth seeking the other half torn from us.
Now being Aristophanes, Plato plays it for laughs, but this is really the heart of the piece. Plato quite clearly thought this one through, in terms of what makes us humans want and need love. It's a bizarre version of Genesis, don'cha think?
So there I was glazed over withbrandy-fog admiration for the imagination of this ancient Greek boybanger, and I was about to give up and pass out take my contemplations indoors when the wind, riffling the pages a bit, caused me to light on an interesting line. I continued with the host's speech.
Now really...is there anything on this wide green earth more boring than listening to a poet bloviate? Especially about luuuuv? Blah blah noble blah blah youthful yakkity blah brave *snore*
Then it's Socrates's turn, and I was hoping Plato gave him some good zingers to make up for the tedium of the preceding sixteen years of my life. I mean, the previous speech. It was a little bit hard to hold the magnifying glass, for some reason, and it kept getting in the way of the brandy bottle. I mean, coffee thermos! COFFEE THERMOS.
I'm not all the way sure what Plato had Socrates say, but it wasn't riveting lemme tell ya what. I woke up, I mean came to, ummm that is I resumed full attention when the major studmuffin and hawttie Alcibiades comes in, late and drunk (!), and proceeds to pour out his unrequited lust for (older, uglier) Socrates. He really gets into the nitty-gritty here, talking about worming his way into the old dude's bed and *still* Socrastupid won't play hide the salami.
Various noises of incredulity and derision were heard to come from my mouth, I feel sure, though I was a little muzzy by that time, and it is about this point that thebrandy bottle COFFEE THERMOS slid to the ground and needed picking up. As I leaned to do so, I remember thinking how lovely and soft the bricks looked.
When I woke up under the glass table top, the goddamned magnifying glass had set what remains of the hair on top of my head on fire.
The moral of the story is, reading The Symposium should never be undertaken while outdoors.

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License.
While perusing a review of Death in Venice (dreadful tale, yet another fag-must-die-rather-than-love piece of normative propaganda) written by my good friend Stephen, he expressed a desire to read The Symposium before he eventually re-reads this
Stephen wrote: "Damn...can you do a quick cliff notes summary or maybe a video lecture? I would much rather take advantage of your previous suffering than have to duplicate it."
THE SYMPOSIUM
So this boring poet dude wins some big-ass prize and has a few buds over for a binge. They're all lying around together on couches, which is as promising a start to a story as I can think of, when the boys decide to stay sober (boo!) and debate the Nature of Luuuv.
Phaedrus (subject of a previous Socratic dialogue by Plato) gives a nice little speech, dry as a popcorn fart, about how Love is the oldest of the gods, and Achilles was younger than Patroclus, and Alcestis died of love for her husband, and some other stuff I don't remember because I was drifting off, and so I got up to see if I would stay awake better on the patio. It was a little nippy that day.
So next up is the lawyer. I know, right? Ask a lawyer to talk about love! Like asking a priest to talk about honor, or a politician to talk about common decency! So he pontificates about pederasty for a while, which made me uncomfortable, so I got up to get some coffee. I may have stopped by the brandy bottle on the way back out, I can't recall.
So after the lawyer tells us when *exactly* it's okay for a grown man to pork a teenager, the doctor chimes in that luuuuuv is the drug, it's everything, man, the whole uuuuuuuniiiiiveeeeeeeeeerse is luuuuv. Who knew they had hippies in those days? I needed more brandy, I mean coffee!, and the text of my ancient Penguin paperback was getting smaller and smaller for some reason, so I went to
Then comes Aristophanes. Now seriously, this is a good bit. Aristophanes, in Plato's world, tells us why we feel whole, complete, when we're with our true love: Once upon a time, we were all two-bodied and two-souled beings, all male, all female, or hermaphroditic. When these conjoined twins fell into disfavor, Zeus cleaved them apart, and for all eternity to come, those souls will wander the earth seeking the other half torn from us.
Now being Aristophanes, Plato plays it for laughs, but this is really the heart of the piece. Plato quite clearly thought this one through, in terms of what makes us humans want and need love. It's a bizarre version of Genesis, don'cha think?
So there I was glazed over with
Now really...is there anything on this wide green earth more boring than listening to a poet bloviate? Especially about luuuuv? Blah blah noble blah blah youthful yakkity blah brave *snore*
Then it's Socrates's turn, and I was hoping Plato gave him some good zingers to make up for the tedium of the preceding sixteen years of my life. I mean, the previous speech. It was a little bit hard to hold the magnifying glass, for some reason, and it kept getting in the way of the brandy bottle. I mean, coffee thermos! COFFEE THERMOS.
I'm not all the way sure what Plato had Socrates say, but it wasn't riveting lemme tell ya what. I woke up, I mean came to, ummm that is I resumed full attention when the major studmuffin and hawttie Alcibiades comes in, late and drunk (!), and proceeds to pour out his unrequited lust for (older, uglier) Socrates. He really gets into the nitty-gritty here, talking about worming his way into the old dude's bed and *still* Socrastupid won't play hide the salami.
Various noises of incredulity and derision were heard to come from my mouth, I feel sure, though I was a little muzzy by that time, and it is about this point that the
When I woke up under the glass table top, the goddamned magnifying glass had set what remains of the hair on top of my head on fire.
The moral of the story is, reading The Symposium should never be undertaken while outdoors.

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License.
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Comments (showing 1-50 of 76) (76 new)
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Stephen
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I confess I got here from reading Stephen's review of a Death in Venice and found this unexpected, highly entertaining bit. Loved it!
Arah-Lynda wrote: "I confess I got here from reading Stephen's review of a Death in Venice and found this unexpected, highly entertaining bit. Loved it!"Thank you, Arah-Lynda! I appreciate the compliment.
12 likes and rising, Richard! I guess Kat and Stephen aren't the only ones who appreciate a great review;)
Marvin wrote: "12 likes and rising, Richard! I guess Kat and Stephen aren't the only ones who appreciate a great review;)"I'm a little surprised, honestly. It's pretty weird subject matter.
Nilesh wrote: "I was surprised that earlier Richard posted such a great review as a comment."It didn't start out as a review, just an answer to a comment of Stephen's.
I'm a bad Classics major, because I don't remember a word of the philosophy I had to read.Penguin should have you translate a new edition. :D
I have nothing but respect for the translator's art! It's the most thankless and underappreciated task in all of literature. Boo and hiss on doing the job!!Besides, I'd rewrite Alcibiades and Socrates's relationship, and I don't imagine The Academy would appreciate that.
Great review, Richard. The Symposium has its faults, but at least it's not The Republic.The real Alcibiades, who somehow bounced from Athens to Sparta to Persia and then back to Athens over the course of the Peloponnesian War before finally getting killed, gets my vote for the single most interesting character from antiquity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcibiades
Henry wrote: "Read Plato's The Republic.Great book."I have. I strongly disagree. It was No Fun to read.
Ancient Greece must have been a very interesting place to live.That's why I like reading books by people who were there.
Henry wrote: "Ancient Greece must have been a very interesting place to live.That's why I like reading books by people who were there."I'd say go to the playwrights: Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound), Aristophanes (Clouds), Sophocles(Antigone, Philoctetes).
OMG, I give up, I'm never writing a review again, everybody on this site is smarter and funnier than me, Richard most of all, and now here I sit pouring brandy in my coffee!! This is what comes of following Richard, not to mention I now adore him.
Damn I'm out of brandy. Can I drink enough cognac to get as funny and astute as Richard? Put me on the bench coach I know when I'm
Henry wrote: "Are they as funny as Apuleius's Metamorphoses?"You mean The Golden Ass? He was Roman...and no, no indeed.
Clouds and The Frogs, Aristophanes's plays, are funny once you know what the hell he's on about. Critical editions with notes are the way to go. The others are tragedies. Wonderful stuff, but chucklefests? Nuh-uh.
Bennet wrote: "OMG, I give up, I'm never writing a review again, everybody on this site is smarter and funnier than me, Richard most of all, and now here I sit pouring brandy in my coffee!! This is what comes of ..."*smooch* You're a terrific reviewer, so just hush up, there, little missie.
Jeffrey wrote: "Damn I'm out of brandy. Can I drink enough cognac to get as funny and astute as Richard? Put me on the bench coach I know when I'm Amazing what a bottle of brandy will do for one's perceptions...thanks, Jeffrey!
I disagree about Plato being an utterly Also, I can only hope you got some of your hair back again! Hehehe
I'm not totally anti-Plato, by any means. I don't think this is one of his successes, is all. And truly...is there a soul on the planet who can say The Republic was a *pleasure* to read? Important, yes, and even crucial to have the concepts as mental furniture. But a pleasure?
Richard wrote: "I'm not totally anti-Plato, by any means. I don't think this is one of his successes, is all. And truly...is there a soul on the planet who can say The Republic was a *pleasure* to read? Important,..."Well... *blushes a little* Ok, perhaps not the entire thing, but it has its moments... :P
Depends what you define as "pleasure" I suppose.. XD
Let's put it this way: I found parts of The Republic more pleasurable to read than "The Hunger Games" Hahahahaaaa
Anyway, your review had me burbling with delight. :D
Cuddlepunkin, I found The Way Things Are: The De Rerum Natura in the original Latin more pleasurable to read than that twaddle.Happy to have contributed to a burble!
Lucius Apuleius studied the philosophy of Plato in ancient Athens.And The GOLDEN ASS IS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST BOOKS EVER WRITTEN.
Heavens yes! It's a laugh-out-loud fun-fest! I wish more people would give it a try. I've read it twice, and it never got old.
That was a really funny review Richard. A great by-product of the wonders of the threads that develop on GR. Thank you so much
Mark wrote: "That was a really funny review Richard. A great by-product of the wonders of the threads that develop on GR. Thank you so much"You're welcome, Mark!
Bennet- OMG, I give up, I'm never writing a review again, everybody on this site is smarter and funnier than me, Richard most of all, and now here I sit pouring brandy in my coffee!! This is what comes of following Richard, not to mention I now adore him.I know...me too...
Tracy wrote: "Bennet- OMG, I give up, I'm never writing a review again, everybody on this site is smarter and funnier than me, Richard most of all, and now here I sit pouring brandy in my coffee!! This is what c..."Awwwww now! Y'all just
OMG Richard your reviews are better than the books! They are so witty, I long to write the way you do though I am loathe to try for fear the the witty-gene is one I have not, or perhaps lost ... not under the influence of brandy but a lifetime of chocolate addiction.I actually remember liking the book when I read it but now I have to rethink it. Did I like it because it's a classic and I try to like the classics? High status and all? Or because it contained sex? Or because it was about challening norms? Or maybe I didn't really like it, maybe I rereading is in order.
Concerning your comments about a strange sort of Genesis retelling, it's actually closer to Genesis than you may know. The original body was indeed created as "hermaphroditic" if you believe the Good book. What the Christian translators MIStranslated was the word for rib. Eve was not made from Adam's rib but from his side. The Hebrew word employed, and yes I have forgotten the word due to 20 years of agnosticism, is not the same "side" as an English side but more like a half as in "front half" and "back half" or, well "side" but YIKES translating words from Hebrew to modern English is often an exercise in obfuscation. Be that as it may, the body was one but God supposedly cut it in "half" or separated the front from the back, as it were. The front had the penis and the back had the vagina (Or is it the other way around?) But the Hebrew creation story is not all that different from those explicated by the Greeks and other ancient people - surprise, surprise, people actually shared stories.
A couple bizarre things: Silly as it sounds, I was constantly perplexed by their propensity to lie down while drinking ... mightly uncomfortable! Second, I understand same-sex attractive but the old guys? I can see the old guys lusting after the young ones, age always chases after youth but the young ones getting a willing over an old wrinkled dude? Hm. That's something that would require a Vulcan mind-meld to understand.
And one last thing ... I remember thinking, "Get to the point," those dudes were far too verbose. I mean, say it short and simple. Perhaps they had way too much time on their hands, me thinks.
*willy, not willing. Damn, I need to proofread before hitting send ... so many errors but you get it.
Nato wrote: "OMG Richard your reviews are better than the books! They are so witty..."Heh. Thanks, Nato!
Nato wrote: "I can see the old guys lusting after the young ones, age always chases after youth but the young ones getting a willing over an old wrinkled dude? Hm. That's something that would require a Vulcan mind-meld to understand."
As the befuddled and perplexed object of the affections of a 20yr old guy, I completely relate to and understand your feelings. It's flattering that he keeps showing up, but I can't help thinking "what are you THINKING?!?"
He's no help. When asked a more polite variation on that question, his response was, "Adonis you ain't but Apollo you are to me."
I pretended I understood what he meant, smooched him, and resumed braiding my all-gray shoulder hair to keep it from tangling with the ear hair.
Richard wrote: "As the befuddled and perplexed object of the affections of a 20yr old guy, I completely relate to and understand your feelings. It's flattering that he keeps showing up, but I can't help thinking "what are you THINKING?!?"He's no help. When asked a more polite variation on that question, his response was, "Adonis you ain't but Apollo you are to me."
I pretended I understood what he meant, smooched him, and resumed braiding my all-gray shoulder hair to keep it from tangling with the ear hair.
..."
Well... hey, I might be a straight female, but I can relate to being attracted to an older man - most certainly I can remember my (bygone, alas)17-18 year old self being attracted to what a specific older man represented in intellectual status and sophistication.
And I can quite see my (bygone, alas) 20-year old self feeling attracted to an older, greying wrinkly man if he is sexy between the ears. In fact, I currently know a guy in his sixties who is electrifyingly sexy, plain and simple. Wow, if he emits currents that scrambles one's wiring at his current age, I don't want to know what he must have been like 30 or 40 years ago...
Of course, it does help if an older man is goodlooking besides having a sexy mind and personality. I mean, I can most certainly see how my ovaries could do the rumba (to put it in EL James speak) for this :
even when I was still 20 years old...and a note to people who are ageist... see ya in about 30 years time and we'll see if you still feel the same way. ;)
I was certainly never Richard Gere! But I suspect, if I'm honest, that sweetienubbins is pleasantly surprised by the sex but downright eager for the conversation. I base this on the fact that he only shuts up when he's waiting for me to answer a question. Guy *soaks*up* information, follows up on leads, isn't afraid to say "you're wrong" and back it up.The fact that he's closer in age to my oldest grandson than to my daughter or to me is a little unsettling to me. Then he takes off his clothes and I don't care anymore.
Hello, my name is Richard, and I'm a stereotypical man.
Traveller wrote: "Oh Richard.. -you dirty old man!! :P"...haven't had a shower...am over 50...yep, it's official! I'm a Dirty Old Man!
I'm with Traveller, I totally get why a sweet young thing would have the hots for a distinguished older gentleman. Mwah haha. So funny.
Traveller wrote: "Richard wrote: "As the befuddled and perplexed object of the affections of a 20yr old guy, I completely relate to and understand your feelings. It's flattering that he keeps showing up, but I can't..."Well I'm approaching 50 and getting gray and old and I guess I'm an ageist because I don't want to be old. Ug. I mean, really, who among us wouldn't want to be 20 again, in perfect health, with all of the hope and possibility in front of us? :-]
When I was twenty I was a twit. I don't care what I looked like. I do however wish I could look the way I did when I was forty though.
Tracy wrote: "I'm with Traveller, I totally get why a sweet young thing would have the hots for a distinguished older gentleman. Mwah haha. So funny."Heck, *I*'d have the hots for a distinguished older gentleman! But sweetienubbins, for reasons best known to his shrink, is interested in *me*! Silly lad.
I think I looked and felt the best at 28 but, yep, it would be nice to have these choices. If only sci-fi could really happen! The book FRIDAY by Robert Heinlein is a spectacular read.
Nato wrote: "Well I'm approaching 50 and getting gray and old and I guess I'm an ageist because I don't want to be old. Ug. I mean, really, who among us wouldn't want to be 20 again, in perfect health, with all of the hope and possibility in front of us? :-]"*raises hand*
Me! Ain't enough money on the planet, enough nookie in the brothels of Thailand, enough power in the Vatican, to convince me to be 20 again and live through the shit I lived through. Nuh uh. No way. No how. I worked ****HARD**** to get here, and there were long moments when I thought maybe it wasn't worth it, and long moments when I wondered why I was bothering.
So no way in HELL am I goin' back 35 years or whatever. Nix nyet nein nu!!


