Nathan "N.R." Gaddis's Reviews > The Restored Finnegans Wake

The Restored Finnegans Wake by James Joyce
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Was bin you? ::
Ein luger ; faelscher ; Father of ; flibber flabber ; Miss MacLeader ; desimulate ; hazug ; trick a her stir ; leogere ; false wit ; phonitical ; cheet a puma ; con ; equal vadar ; story hearer ; promotorcross ; mensoganto ; rascal ; hṛṣi ; hyper cryter ; Hair Pseudo ; mwongo ; path and logical ; dish o nest and storter ; libel and label ; not a squarestraight shooter ; counterfèting ; defamé ; calumniacator ; ;

Porce? Vava Varoom? Howso? ::
I say I confirm I assert I am truthtosay Allalivia Finnegans Wake durchaus and straight through and Whole Thing to have geread I claim. Hand on heart!

Juan? ::
Juan the Second, anni dom twenty und twelve bisunto gesters this our lawd’s year of twenty eat foreteens, a certain day of a month of showers the very tens and ones of onehundredelv. Zwar. None and sept weeks of wakes in the woche.

ού; ::
Outsea dorsea mostlich. In char. Avec avis and kittehs.

V ::
Meet McPugh and McQue. Con Campbell. Wort by wort, healthy yeasties.

Quant? ::
Fourmal mahlzeit meistlich.

Qual odor? :: Yes well donkey shay! I furt her make of a claim to have been being udder stooding of a it. Maistro! And am therefore and thuswhy dubbel accused as.

Who? ::
Finn MacCool!!!!!






Otter stuff from primeval daze. Donnerwetter!
_______________
The final four pages of the Anna Livia chapter (I, 8) were rendered into Basic English by C.K. Ogden with the cooperation of Joyce. McHugh’s Annotations incorporate some of the notes made by Joyce for Ogden. See Ogden’s book, The General Basic English Dictionary. I have not been able to track down Ogden’s rendering. See also the article “Universalizing Languages: Finnegans Wake Meets Basic English,” by Susan Shaw Sailer: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307...



______________________
One might suspect that some remarks made regarding The Wake are in reality directed toward the 15th century Voynich Manuscript. Here’s the slowdown-lowdown:
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/full...

“Despite their skills, not one of the above was able to read the manuscript, leading to the growing suspicion that the text does not involve any encryption, because that would have been broken by now. And it may not even involve any actual language, either: In 2004, the aforementioned Gordon Rugg declared that the text was just gibberish — an ancient hoax possibly assembled through a non-functional version of a Renaissance coding technique called the “Cardan grille.” Rugg could not, however, explain why anyone in the Renaissance would do such a thing, nor did he address the amazing effort that went into the hundreds of illustrations. After a century of study, the Voynich Manuscript still mocks us.”

and the manuscript itself has been webbified:
http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/digi...



_______________
How does Finneganian work? Allow Data to explain. Joyce tends to keep his words to "ten or fewer" at a time. Curious that one of Data's pieces is from Mozart, albeit a symphony, because one is reminded of the scene from Amadeus in which Mozart explicates the possibilities contained within the operatic genre of writing multiple voices singing simultaneously, something which, in ordinary circumstances, is impossible when one word must follow its prior word. In Finneganian we can have them all at once. And not only do we have "ten or fewer words" at a time, we also have ten or more characters and stories at a time. The figures of our human history are all here, all at once: Here Comes Everybody!!!!

Does anyone still believe that the English language is a monolingual language? Is English not already a Finneganian?



____________
A video in which a few words of Joseph Campbell regarding The Wake are read over pretty images. [thanks to Friend Nick for bringing this to my attention).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...




____________
Thoughts on Joyce from Slavoj Žižek’s [book:The Indivisible Remainder: On Schelling and Related Matters|90563], Verso, 2007. p 202.

“This is also what Lacan’s thesis on ‘Joyce-the-symptom’ aims at: Joyce’s famous statement that he wrote Finnegans Wake in order to keep literary historians busy for the next four hundred years has to be read against the background of Lacan’s assertion that within a psychoanalytic cure a symptom is always addressed to the analyst and, as such, points forward towards its interpretation. The ‘modernism’ of Joyce resides in the fact that his works--at least Ulysses and Finnegans Wake--are not simply external to their interpretation but, as it were, take into account in advance their possible interpretations, and enter into dialogue with them. In so far as an interpretation or a theoretical explanation of a work of art endeavours to ‘frame’ its object, one can say that this modernist dialectics provides another example of how the frame is always included in, is a part of, the framed content: in modernism, a theory about the work is comprised in the work, the work is a kind of pre-emptive strike at possible theories about itself.

“On that account, it is inappropriate to criticize Joyce for no longer writing for a naive reader capable of an immediate consumption of his works but for a reflected reader who is able to read only with an eye on possible theoretical interpretations of what he is reading--in short, for a literary scientist: such a ‘reflected’ approach in no way diminishes our enjoyment of the work--on the contrary, it supplements our reading with a surplus-enjoyment which is one of the trademarks of true modernism.”



____________
Further precedence for Finnegans Wake.

From Rabelais’ second book, Gargantua, chapter two, we find the following Antidoted Bubbles, apparently a satirical poem known as a coq-à-l’âne (“*” represents the bits of manuscript eaten by mice):


********arrived the Cimbrian conqueror,
*******in through air for fear of all that dew,
******e arrives, the tubs can take no more
****resh butter pouring down like stew.
**bespattered grandma in full view:
She cried aloud: ‘Herren. Fish him right out!
His beard cow-patted is as if by glue;
Or hold him a ladder, better ‘tis than nowt.’

To lick his slipper some said was true bliss,
Better indeed than pardoners to pay;
But an affected rascal came amiss
Up from the dip where roaches swim and play,
And said, ‘My Lords, for God’s sake, your hands stay!
The eel is in that booth quite unrevealed.
There you shall find, if you would look that way,
Deep in his amice a great fault concealed.’

He was about that Chapter to intone
But found, within, the horns of a young cow.
‘My mitre’s depth,’ he said, ‘is cold as stone.
It chills my freezing brain, I know not how.’
With turnips’ reek they warm his icy brow:
He’d stay at home quite happily and glad
If they should find new harnesses somehow
For all those folk whose brains have turned quite mad.


Eleven stanzas follow. Also, one things of Lewis Carroll and Dr Seuss in relation to the playfulness of Finnegans Wake.


___________
If you can stomach the insipid, cloying prose, Michael Chabon has a piece in the NYRB reflecting on a year of reading the Wake: What to Make of Finnegans Wake?. (Thank you, MJ, for the link).

____________
Donald Barthelme, that master of postmodern minimalism, said "After all, we are all realists." How does that apply to Joyces Wake? The first hypothesis would be that it is a realism relating to the experience of language, night(marre)-time language, or, in accordance with the 21st being the century of the Wake, the experience of being in between language(s). Joyce lived between English and Gaelic. We are in a globalized world in which English appears as the contemporary monolithic Latin. But isn't Joyce's work suggesting an alternative experience against English-as-monolith? that what our multi-cultural, multi-lingual global experience implies is a betweenness? Languages have always existed as a betweenness of official, universalizable Sprache and local, particularistic Dialekt; witness Spanglish or Ebonics. Can we locate the language wars between prescriptivists and descriptivists in this same betweenness? that we should, rather than prescribe how Joyce should have written his book, take him as describing a possibility of our being between language(s)? between knowing the rules and at the same time knowing that (guilty!) we break them and how those rules are always the possibility of their own trespass?


A precedent for the Wake discovered in ancient India, a Sanskrit novella, Subandhu's Vasavadatta, from the 5th or 6th century, a.d. Take the sentence from the Wake, "they were yung and easily freudened," and imagine translating it into a non-European language and culture. Compare the result with this passage, rendered by two translators, an American and an Indian:

From Louis Gray (1913):
"Thus, even though a [Bhīma], he is [[no foe of Baka]], for he is [horrible] and a [[foe of them that praise him]]; though a [fire], he is a [[wind]], for he is a [devourer of his own place of refuge] and a [[dog in his mother]]". (Single brackets represent single puns, double double.)

From Harinath De (1908, published 1994):
"The wicked man combines the incompatible appellations of being Bhīma and yet no foe to the demon Baka in the sense that he is terrible and hostile to those worthy of praise; of being āśrayāśa fire, yet Matariśvā in the sense of being a destroyer of shelters and adopting a canine behaviour towards his own mother."

(Taken from Steven Moore's The Novel: An Alternate History volume 1: Beginnings to 1600, pp424-425.)

What does this suggest about the Wake? On the other hand, how is it possible for a reader to believe that any author could write a novel which contains nothing but univocal semantic content? Irony, metaphor, pun, ambiguity and ambivalence are the constituents, the conditions of possibility, of the novel. Isn't this what the Wake carries out to a degree of genius beyond the capacity of a merely single natural language?




_____________
Several artificial languages are woven into The Wake. Here's something more recent:
from The New Yorker:
"Utopian for Beginners: An amateur linguist loses control of the language he invented."
by Joshua Foer
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/20...
[Of course, Wakian is in no way to be construed as 'artificial,' only 'artful.'



___________________
The Restored Finnegans Wake. Eds. Danis Rose and John O'Hanlon. London: Penguin Classics, 2012.

This is a clear reading text produced out of 30 years labor upon Joyce's various versions of and notebooks for his Work in Progress/Finnegans Wake. Forth coming is a hypertext edition of the Wake which will include all of the pre-Wake drafts as well as the entirety of the extant notebooks. This hypertext edition underlies the recently published restored Wake. For more information see the Houyhnhnm Press .

My intention is to read one to two pages of the Wake per day. This oughta keep me reading for 491 days. I will also regularly push a status update in order to increase my status in the literary world as One Who Reads the Wake, or perhaps so that one may observe my failure to get past page 20, to have all that pretentiousness rubbed back in my own face. I do not intend to write a review. That would seem a bit obscene. But I have 491 days to decide about that.

My reading, at the beginning is untethered, but, being bookish as I am, I will likely accumulate some kind of bookish reading partner, if anything insightful presents itself.




Annutter Review of mine of Wake, wherein is out=line’d our Wake wit chapter first-lines ::
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
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Quotes Nathan "N.R." Liked

James Joyce
“In the name of Annah the Allmaziful, the Everliving, the Bringer of Plurabilities, haloed be her eve, her singtime sung, her rill be run, unhemmed as it is uneven!”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Wait till the honeying of the lune, love! Die eve, little eve, die! We see that wonder in your eye. We'll meet again, we'll part once more. The spot I'll seek if the hour you'll find. My chart shines high where the blue milk's upset.”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Thus the unfacts, did we possess them, are too imprecisely few to warrant our certitude...”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, you're vine! Sendday's eve and, ah you're vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister Funn, you're going to be fined again!”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“The Gracehoper was always jigging ajog, hoppy on akkant of his joyicity.”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“(Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curios of sings (please stoop), in this allaphbed! Can you rede (since We and Thou had it out already) its world?”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“The great fact emerges that after that historic date all holographs so far exhumed initialled by Haromphrey bear the sigla H.C.E. and while he was only and long and always good Dook Umphrey for the hungerlean splapeens of Lucalizod and Chimbers to his cronies it was equally certainly a pleasant turn of the populace which gave him as sense of those normative letters the nickname Here Comes Everybody”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Loud, heap miseries upon us yet entwine our arts with laughters low!”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Three quarks for Muster Mark!”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Here, and it goes on to appear now, she comes, a peacefugle, a parody's bird, a peri potmother, a pringlpik in the ilandiskippy, with peewee and powwows in beggybaggy on her bickybacky and a flick flask fleckflinging its pixylighting pacts' huemeramybows, picking here, pecking there, pussypussy plunderpussy.”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Stand forth, Nayman of Noland (for no longer will I follow you obliquelike through the inspired form of the third person singular and the moods and hesitensies of the deponent but address myself to you, with the empirative of my vendettative, provocative and out direct), stand forth, come boldly, jolly me, move me, zwilling though I am, to laughter in your true colours ere you be back for ever till I give you your talkingto!”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“It is seriously believed by some that the intention may have been geodetic, or, in the view of the cannier, domestic economical. But by writing thithaways end to end and turning, turning and end to end hithaways writing and with lines of litters slittering up and louds of latters slettering down, the old semetomyplace and jupetbackagain from tham Let Raise till Hum Lit. Sleep, where in the waste is the wisdom?”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Grace before Glutton. For what we are, gifs a gross if we are, about to believe.”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake

James Joyce
“Havvah-ban-Annah”
James Joyce, Finnegans Wake


Reading Progress

February 21, 2012 – Shelved
June 2, 2012 – Started Reading
June 2, 2012 –
page 4
0.76%
June 8, 2012 –
page 11
2.1% "Ali - Here's something 'pretentious' I'm reading. But is it all pretense? Only part, I assure you. ;)"
June 15, 2012 –
page 23
4.4%
June 16, 2012 –
page 23
4.4% "If you can believe it, a film based on Finnie's Wake:\n http://www.ubu.com/film/joyce_wake.html"
June 24, 2012 –
page 29
5.54% "What a Feast of gutenbergian Moveable type."
July 2, 2012 –
page 31
5.93% "Indeed, exhausting."
July 3, 2012 –
page 39
7.46%
July 10, 2012 –
page 42
8.03%
July 14, 2012 –
page 53
10.13%
July 17, 2012 –
page 60
11.47% "My next step is to reread Part I chapter 3."
July 24, 2012 –
page 43
8.22%
August 12, 2012 –
page 47
8.99%
August 16, 2012 –
page 60
11.47% "Bak whonc moore filthily whence were I prioritily. But know too the freshe terroritory we'll expend ourselves hitheryonagain again. Parto uno, Kapital Fear."
August 19, 2012 –
page 64
12.24%
August 19, 2012 –
page 64
12.24% "Why did the patrizien make him scares with his gruntens? Because the druiven were muskating at the door."
August 19, 2012 –
page 64
12.24% "and so, to mark a lank taal she arter, the hobedience of the citizens elp the ealth of the ole. [p60; previouse updatum quotatation p62. apu-logies]"
August 19, 2012 –
page 64
12.24% "Now gode. Let us leave theories there and return to here's here. Now hear. 'Tis gode again. [. . .] And this, liever, is the thinghowe."
August 21, 2012 –
page 64
12.24% ""....the ward of the wind that lightened the fire that lay in the wood that Jove bolt..."
August 21, 2012 –
page 65
12.43% ""...as stuck as that cat to that mouse in that tube of that christchurch organ...""
August 21, 2012 –
page 66
12.62% ""(in the Nichtian glossery which purveys aprioric roots for aposteriourious tongues this is nat language at any sinse of the world and one might as fairly go and kish his sprogues as fail to certify whether the wartrophy eluded at some lives earlier was that somethink like a jug...""
August 21, 2012 –
page 68
13.0% ""...the white ground of his face all covered with diagonally redcrossed nonfatal mammalian blood as proof positive of the seriousness of his character and that he was bleeding in self defience (stanch it!) from the nostrils, lips, pavilion and palate, while some of his hitter's hairs had been pulled off his knut's head by Colt though otherwise his allround health appeared to be middling along...""
August 21, 2012 –
page 68
13.0% ""...being praisegood thankfully for the wrathbereaved ringdove and the fearstung boaconstrictor and all the more right jollywell pleased, which he was, at having other people's weather.""
August 23, 2012 –
page 72
13.77% "What's the word?\n "Bladyughfoulmoecklenburgwhurawhorascortastrumpapornanennykocksapastippatappatupperstrippuckputtanach, eh? Ah!""
August 26, 2012 –
page 77
14.72% ""...as the sibspeeches of all mankind have foliated (earth seizing them!) from the root of somefunner's stotter, all the soundest sense to be found immense our special mentalists now holds (securus iudicat orbis terrarum) that by such playing possum our hagious curious encestor bestly saved his brush with his posterity, you, charming coparcenors, us, heirs of his tailsie.""
August 27, 2012 –
page 83
15.87% "Anfanging Parto Uno, Kapital wat-comes-twixt-fear-and-sex?\n \n Most purely pleasurable linguistic enjoyableness yet wrought of our most holy and noble Englishablishness."
August 28, 2012 –
page 86
16.44% ""...being tantamount to inferring from the nonpresence of inverted commas (sometimes called quotation marks) on any page that its author was always constitutionally incapable of misappropriating the spoken words of others.""
August 28, 2012 –
page 88
16.83% "A couple of lightly annotated, highly lucid paragraphs of Jim Joyce's response to (mis)readers and (incapable) critics of Ulysses and Work in Progress."
August 31, 2012 –
page 92
17.59% ""...advokaatoes, allvoyous, demivoyelles, languoaths, lesbiels, dentelles, gutterhowls and furtz...""
September 3, 2012 –
page 100
19.12% "Fertig met Partum hen, Kapital zwishcen-fear-ond-sex; And oui countinu-eh unto Partumpost derselben chap Sex-you-el.\n \n Middlewhile, we rest and uptake Our Exagmination Round His Factification For Incamination of Work in Progress for lillwhile."
September 4, 2012 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again
September 7, 2012 –
page 3
0.57% "Finnegan begin again. Back to cover againagain partus onus (good ole) chaps ones aund dose. Thismal avec Annotationi."
September 17, 2012 –
page 13
2.49% ""Come on, fool porterfull, hosiered women blown monk sewer? Scuse us, chorley guy! You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute. Let us swop hats and excheck a few strong verbs weak oach eather yapyazzard abast the blooty creeks.""
September 17, 2012 –
page 24
4.59% ""...that he, sober serious, he is ee and no counter he who will be ultimendly respunchable for the hubbub caused in Edenborough." p23 \n \n Finnly Finnisched wit chapetalizod onesees con Annaliviatations."
September 20, 2012 –
page 29
5.54% ""...that there is not one tittle of truth, allow me to tell you, in that purest of fibfib fabrications.""
October 24, 2012 –
page 100
19.12% "I'm finally back to the beginning of Partum I, Kapital VI, after completing the first three chaps with Annotations. It's been too long gone. This is the mostly bubblingly fun novel ever executed."
October 30, 2012 –
page 110
21.03% "Det war anne invertabled jeopardy Answar, "Finn MacCool!" to which and whome we Questioneed for yea! these 10 long pages. Goot to read straite, butt we say Oh! so slow that slog through yonder Read met AnnaLiviatations. It macht one desirous inndead of that wee-byte nahrativitaeten."
November 6, 2012 –
page 121
23.14% ""I am purposely refraining from expounding the obvious fallacy as to the specific gravitates of the two deglutables implied nor to the lapses lequor asousiated with the royal gorge, though students of mixed hydrostatics and pneumodipsics will after some difficulties grapple away with my meinungs.""
November 11, 2012 –
page 121
23.14% ""Gentes and laitymen, fullstoppers and semicolonials, hybreds and lubberds!" Why has none taled me that Joyce retails the story of our fox and our grapes, "The Mookse And The Gripes"?"
November 11, 2012 –
page 129
24.67% ""Der Haensli ist ein Butterbrot, fein Butterbrot, mein Butterbrot! Und Koebi iss dein Schtinkenkot! Ja! Ja! Ja!"\n \n Und for der PUMA: "Cheesugh! you complain."\n \n Today we ran across some 15 lines of text Restored!!!"
December 6, 2012 –
page 137
26.2% ""unconsciously explaining, for inkstands, with a meticulosity bordering on the insane, the various meanings of all the different foreign parts of speech he misused and cuttlefishing every lie unshrinkable about all the other people in the story...""
December 20, 2012 –
page 142
27.15% ""But what with the murky light, the botchy print, the tattered cover, the jigjagged page, the fumbling fingers, the foxtrotting fleas, the lieabed lice, the scum on his tongue, the drop in his eye, the lump in his throat, the drink in his pottle, the itch in his palm, the wail of his wind, the grief from his nose, the dig in his ribs, the age of his arteries, the weight of his breath, the fog of his mindfag, ...""
December 27, 2012 –
page 144
27.53% ""He scrabbled and scratched and scriobbled and skrevened nameless shamelessness about everybody ever he met""
December 27, 2012 –
page 145
27.72% ""The umpple does not fall very far from the dumpertree""
December 27, 2012 –
page 150
28.68% ""...but it never stphruck your mudhead's obtundity...that the more carrots you chop, the more turnips you slit, the more murphies you peel, the more onions you cry over, the more bullbeef you butch, the more mutton you crackerhack, the more potherbs you pound, the fiercer the fire and the longer your spoon and the harder you gruel with more grease to your elbow the merrier fumes your new Irish stew.""
December 27, 2012 –
page 154
29.45% ""Oh tell me all about Anna Livia! I want to hear all about Anna Livia. Tell me all. Tell me now. You'll die when you hear. Well, you know, when the old cheb went futt and did what you know. Yes, I know, go on. Wash away and quit dabbling ...""
January 7, 2013 –
page 157
30.02% ""High hellskirt saw ladies hensmoker lilyhung pigger." But if you know Danish: "Jeg elsker saaledes hine smukke lille unge piger," and Englished as "I so love those beautiful little young girls." So much for The Wake being meaningless."
January 14, 2013 –
page 167
31.93% ""So near and yet so far! But O, gihon! I lovat a gabber. I could listen to maure and moravar again. Regn onder river. Flies do your float. Thick is the life for mere." Yes indeed, thick is the life for mere, too."
January 15, 2013 –
page 173
33.08% "Wheel bebeginnun parto deu. . . "...after humpteen dumpteen revivals. Before all the Kings Hoarsers with all the Queens Mum. And wordloosed over seven seas crowdblast in Celtelleneteutoslavzendlatinsoundscript. In four tubbloids. While fern may cald us until firn make cold.""
January 30, 2013 –
page 177
33.84% ""With futurist onehorse balletbattle pictures and the Pageant of Past History worked up with animal variations amid everglading mangrovemazes and propounded for cyclological beorbtracktors by Messrs Thud and Blunder" (p174) is the one sentence answer to your question "But what's it about?""
February 12, 2013 –
page 179
34.23% ""All runaway sheep bound back bopeep, trailing their teens behind them. And these ways wend they. And those ways wend they. Winnie, Olive and Beatrice, Nelly and Ida, Amy and Rue. Here they come back, all the gay pack, for they are the florals..." Get it? WOBNIAR."
February 12, 2013 –
page 181
34.61% ""Ukalepe. Loather's Lave. Had Days. Nemo in Patria. The Luncher Out. Skilly and Carubdish. A Wondering Wreck. From the Mermaids' Tavern. Bullyfamous. Naughseecalves. Mother of Misery. Walpurgas Nackt." That paragraph should be familiar to readers of Ulysses."
March 6, 2013 –
page 181
34.61% "Shoot oot (als kiddies say) zum all U coorently-reeding Finny's Aufwach--Ooli, Jeff-notMoott, und ScribbleScrumbleScramble Sunnysideupsadaisy; et nachtmehr a logos to allem allofyou already done read, will reed, pretend to rude. Allem alle sage me Gott sei dank!!!!!!"
March 7, 2013 –
page 185
35.37% ""Hymnnumber twentynine. O, the singing! Happy little girlycums to have adolphted such an Adelphus! O, the swingswung hopops so goholden! They've come to chant en chor.""
March 7, 2013 –
page 189
36.14% ""Hightime is up: be it down into outs according! When there shall be foods for vermin as full as feeds for the fett, eat on hearth as there's hot in oven.""
April 2, 2013 – Shelved as: unreadababble
April 8, 2013 – Shelved as: 100-mccaffery-read
April 11, 2013 –
page 199
38.05% ""Grassy ass ago.""
April 13, 2013 –
page 202
38.62% "Eve's measurements:"
April 13, 2013 –
page 204
39.01% "Wherein the faust chap of Children’s Hour runs to a cloze und Sir Joice comes clearer and quotes us much of our Biblicalisms. [Extendable challenge to copywrongs limitationesses]:\n \n \n “Goto, let us extol Azrael with our harks, by our brews, on our jambses, in his gaits."
April 13, 2013 –
page 199
38.05% "Butbutbutbutbutbut there’s just that here’s another great bit and really you know Finnie’s whittle bookchen ist somethymes notunreadababble, not all Towers of Babylawns!!!! sobutanyhow we have a taste of why and wherefore and HOW WakeSprache:"
May 15, 2013 –
page 205
39.2% "Reterm to Wake. "As we there are where are we are we here haltagain. By recourse, of course, recoursing from Tomtittot to Teetootomtotalitarian. Tea tea too oo.""
May 15, 2013 –
page 210
40.15% ""From gramma's grammar she has it that if there is a third person, mascarine, phelinine or nuder, being spoken abad it moods prosode from a first person speaking to her second which is the direct object that has been spoken to, with and at. [...]"
June 23, 2013 –
page 216
41.3% "Jeg messed the furst annyversry of my Wake lickture [Juno Two]. Happy hoppy hippy to me me ME!!!! Yub-yub, said an ewok. Been too much press for pages pages PAGES and now I've {fu-fu-f've} finished my Reading along-ding-dong Challenge, slooooowwww (gin) down with book ticking, tocking, clocking. Slo rhythm reading. Wakee wakee!!!!"
June 30, 2013 –
page 218
41.68% ""Translout that gaswind into turfish, Teague, that's a good bog, and you, Thady, poliss it off, there's a nateswipe, on to your blottom pulper.""
July 13, 2013 –
page 219
41.87% ""Give you the fantods, seemed to him.""
July 14, 2013 –
page 221
42.26% ""They wouldn't took bearings no how anywheres. O them doddhunters and allanights, aahs and baas for agnomes, yees and zees for incognits, bate him up jerrybly! Worse nor herman dororrhea. Give you the fantods, seemed to him. They ought to told you every last word first stead of trying every which way to kinder smear it out poison long." -p219"
July 14, 2013 –
page 226
43.21% ""O, Laughing Sally, are we going to be toadhauntered by that old Pantifox Sir Somebody Something, Burtt, for the rest of our secret stripture?""
July 18, 2013 –
page 226
43.21% "Returned around again once more to the Begynning and the Blut flows differentlich in my vains today."
August 20, 2013 –
page 230
43.98% ""Bag bag blockcheap, have you any will?" But, next page too, I saw this once quoted at The Village Blokshop -::- "All moanday, tearsday, wailsday, thumpsday, frightday, shatterday till the fear of the Law.""
August 21, 2013 –
page 238
45.51% "Finnly Funnly finnisch'd the kinder=hour. Jetzt head we together-togather at the Tavern, Eric Christopher Hadrian, proprietor. Pint each dell Guinesses=Basses=JJS's, round 'bout the house please and thanks to you and you and yours and his and hers and ours. Prost!!!"
August 27, 2013 –
page 238
45.51% "Commence second initial untethered reading of first few pages of II.3 What is "the Mimmim Bimbim, patent number 1132, Thorpetersen and Synds, Jomsborg, Selverbergen"? If you're paying attention you will immediately note "1132"."
October 26, 2013 –
page 241
46.08% ""So long plubs will be plebs but plabs by low frequency amplification may later agree to have another." I'll have an Islay, neat and trig."
December 31, 2013 –
page 238
45.51% "I named my cat Finnegan. Usurper!!!!!!"
January 1, 2014 –
page 243
46.46% ""Howe Cools Eavybrolly!""
January 1, 2014 –
page 245
46.85% ""Him her first lap, her his fast pal, for ditcher for plower, till deltas twopart.""
January 1, 2014 –
page 247
47.23% ""Hircups Emptybolly.""
January 19, 2014 –
page 251
47.99% ""As puck as that Paddeus picked the pun and left the lollies off the foiled." \n \n Finnicky funnicky punnicky with Funfamfinnegan."
January 19, 2014 –
page 254
48.57% ""And it was dim upon the floods only and there was day on all the ground.""
January 24, 2014 –
page 260
49.71% ""For Ehren, boys, gobrawl!""
January 25, 2014 –
page 255
48.76% ""Knock knock. War's where! Which war? The twwinns. Knock knock. Woos without! Without what? An apple. Knock knock." Who then is without an apple?"
February 1, 2014 –
page 263
50.29% ""I seen him acting surgent what betwinks the scimitar star and the ashen moon. By their lights shalthow throw him!""
February 7, 2014 –
page 269
51.43% ""Mind your pughs and keoghs now, if you piggots, marsh! Do the nut, dingbut! Be a dag! For zahur and zimmerminnes! Sing the chorias to the ethur!""
February 15, 2014 –
page 278
53.15% "To-Manny bøks on the Liffying=Current but I Wanna Ragnör=Wråke :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRwrg0..."
February 15, 2014 –
page 280
53.54% "This book is really good."
February 15, 2014 –
page 296
56.6% "Ive red some bits of this bok and Lemmi say that its Marv Les Lee wrotten."
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: the-value-of-a-d... (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: reference (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: encyclopedic (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: too-big-to-knot (Paperback Edition)
February 18, 2014 – Shelved as: the-value-of-a-d... (Paperback Edition)
February 22, 2014 –
page 333
63.67% "Finnegans! Wreck!"
March 5, 2014 –
page 368
70.36% ""Lowly, longly, a wail went forth. Pure Yawn lay low. On the mead of the hillock he lay...""
March 15, 2014 –
page 381
72.85% ""--Broadribnob's on the bummel?\n -- And lillypets on the lea.""
March 16, 2014 –
page 389
74.38% ""Act drop. Stand by! Blinders! SILENCE. Curtain up. Juice, please! Foots!""
March 19, 2014 – Shelved as: checks-in-the-mail (Paperback Edition)
March 20, 2014 – Shelved as: the-value-of-a-dollar ( Edition)
March 20, 2014 – Shelved ( Edition)
March 20, 2014 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again ( Edition)
March 21, 2014 –
page 413
78.97% ""Fa Fe Fi Fo Fum! Ho, croak, evildoer! Arise, sir ghostus! As long as you've lived there'll be no other. Doff!""
April 4, 2014 –
page 432
82.6% ""What was thass? Fog was whaas? Too mult sleepth. Let sleepth.""
April 6, 2014 –
page 439
83.94% ""Did you ever hear the story about Helius Croesus, that white and gold Elephant in our zoopark?""
April 8, 2014 –
page 454
86.81% ""Bigbrob dignagging his lilyputtana.""
April 8, 2014 –
page 463
88.53% ""Sandhyas! Sandhyas! Sandhyas!" Finn final chapter this flimflamfunfinn book! Sandy ass ideed!"
April 10, 2014 – Shelved as: to-read (Paperback Edition)
April 11, 2014 –
page 475
90.82% "Dawn has been breaking. Joyce has promised to return unto me my daytime language venison. \n \n "Daysgreening gains in schimninging. A summerwint springfalls, abated.""
April 11, 2014 – Finished Reading
April 12, 2014 – Shelved as: 2014-gelesen
June 25, 2014 – Shelved as: i-want-money ( Edition)
June 25, 2014 – Shelved as: i-want-money ( Edition)
August 17, 2014 – Shelved as: apostrophe
August 17, 2014 – Shelved as: apostrophe (Paperback Edition)
December 5, 2014 – Shelved (Capa dura Edition)
December 5, 2014 – Shelved as: to-read (Capa dura Edition)
December 5, 2014 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again (Capa dura Edition)
January 10, 2015 –
page 38
5.91% "I read "Havvah-ban-Annah" and twenty minutes later there's a guy on the radio singing the lyric, "Havvah-ban-Annah". I kidscad you knot." (Capa dura Edition)
January 11, 2015 –
page 48
7.47% ""you spoof of visibility in a freakfog"" (Capa dura Edition)
April 6, 2015 –
page 48
7.47% "Slipping this one from the currently-waking to the always-waking." (Capa dura Edition)
April 6, 2015 – Shelved as: to-read (Capa dura Edition)
May 4, 2015 – Shelved (Audiobook Edition)
May 5, 2015 –
0.0% "I.3 \n \n Familyar frases pop to the surface ; fantastic. \n \n If yer in the you ess, lissen now 'fore the Estate comes crashing down with copy writting claims and unpluggings and disappearings and and and .... sssssilenssss.\n http://www.waywordsandmeansigns.com/" (Audiobook Edition)
June 3, 2015 –
0.0% "currently @ I.3\n \n I was about to lay this aside for totally personal (read : pretty much arbitrary) reasons ; but I pressed play again. This portion performed by someone name of Greg Nahabedian (of no fixed abode I assume)." (Audiobook Edition)
June 13, 2015 –
0.0% "I.8 aka ALP. Unfortunate choice of vocalist here. Fortunate that we have the Master's Voice on this one.\n https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grJC1..." (Audiobook Edition)
July 27, 2015 – Shelved as: partial-credit (Audiobook Edition)
July 27, 2015 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again (Audiobook Edition)
April 25, 2016 – Shelved as: to-read (Audiobook Edition)
April 25, 2016 – Shelved (Audiobook Edition)
April 25, 2016 – Shelved as: rejoyce-again-again (Audiobook Edition)
June 1, 2016 – Shelved as: annotations-please
June 1, 2016 – Shelved as: annotations-please (Capa dura Edition)
June 1, 2016 – Shelved as: annotations-please (Paperback Edition)

Comments Showing 51-100 of 104 (104 new)


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis My longest Wake reading day was 11 pages. And it was not a half hour reading day. But every day reading The Wake is the absolutely best reading day.

A cleaned up paperback of Campbell's Skeleton Key is coming out this Spring. He's a bit dated in his Wake interpretation, but I'm looking forward to doing some reading outside and over above the text itself.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "The one I possess now is an old paperback and one of the ugliest things. "

You'll wanna hold onto to that one. I've picked up the original text a few times when the Annotations and the restored didn't match up or I got a bit lost perhaps. That original text will help clarify a bit when you run across passages where a few sentences get shuffled around, or when new text gets added to the restored.


Geoff Right now I'm feeling like this about reading- I want to read either old things or complex new things. My more immediate goals are Rabelais and Tristram Shandy and Dante and revisiting Shakespeare, and Finnegans Wake. I have thoroughly devoured Ulysses many times over, the bliss and satisfaction of that book will never be equaled, but I feel like I owe it to Joyce to eventually take on his great work. For the past howevermanyyears I have told myself "there is not time enough to read the Wake, to really read it", but maybe now is the time to set those doubts aside. I have ordered the restored version and am looking into the annotations. 2013 will be the year of the flood tide of the Wake.


Geoff Nathan "N.R." wrote: "You'll wanna hold onto to that one."

I plan to, like you said, for the annotations. Both items are now en route to my house.


message 55: by Christopher (new)

Christopher That might be the coolest book cover I've ever seen, but I don't think I'll ever read Finnegan's Wake. Maybe I'll just frame it and hang it on the wall.


message 56: by Richard (new) - added it

Richard Christopher wrote: "That might be the coolest book cover I've ever seen, but I don't think I'll ever read Finnegan's Wake. Maybe I'll just frame it and hang it on the wall."

Well, I never thought I would survive long enough to finish Ulysses, but I did. And I may read Finnegan yet--unless, to quote the words of the traditional prayer, I "die before I Wake."


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Christopher wrote: "That might be the coolest book cover I've ever seen, but I don't think I'll ever read Finnegan's Wake. Maybe I'll just frame it and hang it on the wall."

I think I'm in the minority in regard to the appreciation of this cover. Whether you read it or not, it MUST be on your bookshelf. From that location it will then taunt you for an age of ages.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Richard wrote: "And I may read Finnegan yet"

Of everyone on goodreads, Richard, I'd say you would be the only one who would have a moral obligation to read The Wake.


message 59: by Leo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Leo Robertson The truest thing I can say is that Finnegans Wake is awesom but that if Joyce had my word economy, it wouldn't exist :-)


message 60: by Nick (new) - added it

Nick Craske I'm circling this beastly Joycean word fest like voracious predatory wordybirdy. Soonsoonsoon.


message 61: by Richard (new) - added it

Richard Nick wrote: "I'm circling this beastly Joycean word fest like voracious predatory wordybirdy. Soonsoonsoon."

I can just picture you in a nature documentary about the Serengeti, Nick.


message 62: by Nick (new) - added it

Nick Craske Richard wrote: "I can just picture you in a nature documentary about the Serengeti, Nick."

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIIAQM...


message 63: by Richard (new) - added it

Richard Nick wrote: "Richard wrote: "I can just picture you in a nature documentary about the Serengeti, Nick."

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIIAQM..."


You are the king of beasts, Nick!


Geoff Your latest update to this review brought a question to mind: Should Finnegans Wake be translated to proper English? Isn't that missing the point? The extreme-depth and hologram-like characteristic of the structure of the words and sentences is the entire thrust of the book. Is rendering it into "correct" English kind of like reforming the face of Picasso's Weeping Woman until she looks all normally weeping and picturesque? I don't have the answer to this; I'm not trying to say what is right or wrong in reading the Wake. But the dream-language is the Wake, no? Not saying those versions shouldn't exist, but just wondering what benefit it is to know it without the obfuscation.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "Your latest update to this review brought a question to mind: Should Finnegans Wake be translated to proper English? "

Which is where I was intrigued by the first page of the article by Sailor. The question is why did Joyce get behind this experiment? She suggests that like Finneganian, Ogden's project to create a Basic English (cap letters please) had behind it the same universalist linguisted impulse as does Finneganian. It doesn't involve a translation into our ordinary, everyday English, but this English of only 850(?) words. Joyce includes some six artificial languages (Esperanto, etc) within FW and Basic English would be just another artificial language. Mostly, I'm just intrigued.


message 66: by Ali (last edited Jan 16, 2013 11:54AM) (new)

Ali Geoff: I think you *do* have the answer. The form of the Wake is its content, and trying to render it into propper English kills its content and thus its meaning because the form has been destroyed. Don't forget, too, that the form The Wake would take when translated to English would depend on the interpretation of the translator, and since it means different things to different people, it could be said that five translators, whether with separate language backgrounds or not, could English five separate editions of the book, and if read, every single one, save for the most superficial similarities in plot and structure, would be completely different. The ideal translator, if such a heresy were to be carried out, would be a polyglot who would know all seventy of the languages Joyce employs, or at least as close to all of them as possible, in order to wring the most meaning out of every single word to put them into English, if that can be done, and I'm not sure that it can, and even then, what are you left with? None of that sublime dreamlike language, no alliteration or assonance (because much of the book's internal logic and meaning, not to mention the enjoyment in reading it, exists due to the way its language sounds when read aloud, something that just can't be produced in normal English), no unique prose poetry, no shifting realities, no pages-long quagmires of confusion that takes you several readings to tease out an image, a character, a slight hint of plot, no qualities of the language which invites, no, practically begs for multiple readings in which something new can be taken away each and every time, and that's not even getting into the discussion of if Joyce's portmanteau words, puns, and jokes can be translated at all. To be frank, you'd be taking all the fun out of the Wake, you'd make it utterly boring, barely a simulacrum of what it is in the original, and anyone who deigned to read it first without having looked at the original wouldn't be able to see what the big deal was. Even translating the Wake into different languages makes more sense than translating it into propper English.
I'd still be curious to see it, though.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis For the record, The Wake has been translated into at least Polish, Dutch, French, Spanish, and German. This is not as impossible of a task as one would first assume. Much of Joyce's intentions are contained within the huge quantities of notebooks and drafts he left behind. There is enough within The Wake that even if all the weird looking words were normalized to conventions of orthography, the book would still be incredibly strange. The form of the words is only the most perspicacious peculiarity of the text. The odd syntax would remain, the layering of myths, characters, plots, traditions, controversies, battles, everythingeverything would still be there. It just wouldn't be as economical. But again, Ogden's experiment wasn't to render it in proper English, but into Basic English. I'm intensely curious to see his result. Maybe it could be retrieved somehow.


message 68: by Geoff (last edited Jan 16, 2013 03:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Geoff I mean, yes, I would definitely be curious to see it. No doubt. And I can certainly imagine translations of the Wake into like Dutch, French, German, etc. You could create some intensely interesting word structures; it would be a whole new ball game. But I do feel that the obfuscation is the point, "the form is the content", so yes, but putting it into Basic English would be akin to a translation into something like Polish or French or whatever.. I do see the point.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "But I do feel that the obfuscation is the point,"

That's the impression right up front, for sure. But don't be misled into thinking that there is some preexisting content which then gets jumbled up and hidden or obfuscated. That would be akin to missing the point about the alignment of form and content. It is the form of Finneganian which opens up new linguistic possibilities for creating a experience. With Finneganian Joyce has created a new way to of seeing, not just of being seen. [minor piece of my preoccupations]

But I'm liable to find myself hunting down a copy of the German translation of FW. I think I've got a newspaper clipping about it hidden somewhere around here.


tENTATIVELY, cONVENIENCE I already read the WAKE 37 yrs ago & am not about to reread it (even tho I'm sure it's worth it!) but I do have a continuing interest in all things WAKEIAN. Wch brings me to: Have you checked out Mary Ellen Bute's final movie "Passages from Finnegans Wake"? It's based on Mary Manning's play of the same name (wch I recently read & reviewed on GoodReads). It can be witnessed in lo-fi on UbuWeb. I quite like it & applaud the actors & director n'at!


tENTATIVELY, cONVENIENCE OOPS! I see you've already discovered the film!


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis tENTATIVELY, wrote: "OOPS! I see you've already discovered the film!"

Discovered, but not watched. With the first few minutes of the film (checked into as The Wake was beginning to dawn on me) I thought better that maybe I'd best find myself familiar with the scenes before I see their filmic interpretations. thnks. ditto on the allthings WAKEIAN.


Geoff Nathan "N.R." wrote: "It is the form of Finneganian which opens up new linguistic possibilities for creating a experience. With Finneganian Joyce has created a new way to of seeing, not just of being seen."

This is something that I've found difficult to establish in my early reading of the Wake, because I'm trained to look at text for narrative and meaning, and my initial instinct is to attempt a "decoding" or some such bullshit instead of just learning Finneganian. I'm acclimating to it. Last night I reread the first 12 pages without stopping for annotations (I've read them now through with annotations a couple of times, slowly) and now that I have some of the background knowledge of the etymologies and structures it does read actually rather straight and something approaching "easier". It's amazing how much of it I've already memorized, but I think that has to do with its musicality and rhythms, so song-like. It is an entirely new experience for me, to read a book like this. Totally enjoying it and am baffled by Joyce's intelligence and elegance.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "It is an entirely new experience for me, to read a book like this. Totally enjoying it and am baffled by Joyce's intelligence and elegance. "

I recently made my virgin sortie reading into the first chapter of part II. The first few pages were as clear as the fabled mountain brook from which Coors is clearly not made. But shortly thereafter I struck mud, real mud. But past experience The Teacher tells me what I'm expecting to shine brightly and forthly on the fourthly reading (and postum factum Anna Liviatations McHugh) through of that mud will have filtered it enough at least to brew some Guiness.

"The babbelers with their thangas vain have been (confusium hold them!); they were and went; thigging thugs were and houhnhymn songtoms were and comely norgels were and pollyfool fiansees." -p12


Geoff The first few pages were as clear as the fabled mountain brook from which Coors is clearly not made.

Good one!

But shortly thereafter I struck mud, real mud

Apparently the text becomes more opaque or difficult or muddled or whatever as HCE goes deeper into sleep, and less so when he is supposed to be less soundly snoozing...


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "Apparently the text becomes more opaque or difficult or muddled or whatever as HCE goes deeper into sleep, and less so when he is supposed to be less soundly snoozing... "

I'm not sold on the dream/night thing myself. I know Joyce said something about language going to sleep in Finnegans Wake, and Ulysses being the day, etc, but I think language comes aWake in Finn again. [at the other end of literary history, Homer composed his book using the resources of all the various available Greek dialects--no one spoke Homerese] It's a literary League of Nations, civilization rousting itself out of its sleep of serfdom and peasantry. It is our everyday language which sleeps.

Also, but any time light shines, I smile. Dismaldark thunderheads only hide the thunderbolts where the light hides the words written on Joyce hide.


Geoff Nathan "N.R." wrote: "I'm not sold on the dream/night thing myself."

Have you checked out Bishop's "Joyce's Book of the Dark"? It's does a pretty convincing analysis of the nocturnal aspects of the sleeping HCE as far as the construction of the language. Fabulous essays, diagrams, maps (of Dublin, of HCE's body, word-maps, flow charts of words). Really worth having.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "Have you checked out Bishop's "Joyce's Book of the Dark"?"

Nope. thnks. Besides McHugh and possibly Skeleton Key I don't intend to read too much beyond The Wake until I'm finished. And then I shall read all the few that have been published, I'm sure. I'm just consistently disappointed when I see my village book shop with four dozen copies of Ulysses, two of the Wake and nothing secondary for our Wake. I see Wake stuff, I buy Wake stuff. Simple. thnks. Bishop's is a standard study I understand.


Geoff Quite welcome. I read through Bishop's book years ago after reading Ulysses and being curious about the Wake. I've read bits and pieces of the Wake throughout the years, but never tried a full reading until now. I suppose Bishop's book has somewhat biased my reading of it. Which might be bad but can't really be undone.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Geoff wrote: "I suppose Bishop's book has somewhat biased my reading of it. Which might be bad but can't really be undone."

That shouldn't be a problem. You are reading The Wake with/against Bishop and The Wake is, I understand, best read with readers, other readers. Some reading groups do a page a week, and that would be utterly cool.


message 81: by [deleted user] (new)

I hadn’t heard they released a restored edition. Does it feel like there is a substantial change in the text? I am curious whether I should read this version, when I get around to reading it, or go with the original.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Anthony wrote: "I hadn’t heard they released a restored edition. Does it feel like there is a substantial change in the text? I am curious whether I should read this version, when I get around to reading it, or go..."

Editors say that it is not intended to replace the first text, but to be added to it, next to it. Readerly, and with only scant comparison between the two, I find the Restored more easily readable. Those little 9000 corrects make a difference. And but it's not necessary, reallyreally necessary. And everything ever written about The Wake is keyed to the pagination of the original. Despite all, I recommend getting the Restored. Availability only in England. I've heard nothing about plans for a US edition.


message 83: by Ali (last edited Feb 26, 2013 11:28AM) (new)

Ali Anthony: There are differences between the restored and not, yes, over nine thousand of them, seemingly small and inconsequential (a comma removed or inserted, a letter accented, two words merged to make one or one split into two), but it makes a difference in the reading, teasing out even more of the musicality of Joyce's work and making it easier to read. Both the editors of the restored Wake and fellow Finneganians stress that the restored should act as a supplement, and not a replacement to the original edition, so though you can choose to read whichever one you like, keeping both around may be a good idea. Also important is that they have changed the pagination from the standard 628 pages to I think 521, so if you're reading with annotations that cite page and line numbers such as McHugh be aware that it isn't going to match up with your edition if you read the restored.
For a partial list of 563 differences between The restored and notrestored Finnegans Wakes (if it gives you any idea how many there are, this site only goes up to page 38 in the restored and 47 in the not), see here:
http://www.fweet.org/pages/fw_rest.php


message 84: by [deleted user] (new)

Thanks you two, that is very helpful. It will probably be a while before I tackle this book. I would like to read his works in order because I am told this is the best way to appreciate his works.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Anthony wrote: "Thanks you two, that is very helpful. It will probably be a while before I tackle this book. I would like to read his works in order because I am told this is the best way to appreciate his works."

Yep. There is, to my mind, no imaginable reason in the universe to read The Wake without first having read Ulysses. I've still gotta return to his first two books, but there is good reason to take the four in order.


message 86: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala There is a quasi-Hegelian mode of reading here in the sense that 'the whole is the true' and that the correct (or any) interpretation of some passage may only emerge after encountering something much later in the text. One must be willing to allow Joyce to be Master of the text and not demand that The Reader will fully control it.

This comment, plus your use of the palimpsest idea, The Notebooks function as a kind of palimpsest beneath the palimpsest of The Wake itself, is interesting in light of similar conclusions I came to in the last week with regard to Joyce's contemporary, Proust, and the underlying structure of his A la Recherche du temps perdu.
There is that same same peeling back of layers in Proust and any irrationalities we encounter while reading, as in inconsistencies of voice or time, have to be ignored because we soon learn that we, the readers, must surrender control of this particular text; the author knows exactly what he is doing, and from the very outset. We can only stand back and admire.

P S I love that you are expert conlangers on this thread.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Fionnuala wrote: "the author knows exactly what he is doing"

That is my default reading position any time I run across something, like my current attempts into Arno Schmidt's work, that there is something there ; only I don't recognize it from having seen it elsewhere and it is not familiar.

And more fellow conlangers :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...


message 88: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Nathan "N.R." wrote: "...like my current attempts into Arno Schmidt's work.."

Thank you for pointing me in Schmidt's direction. I had a look at one of his short stories, Drummer for the Czar, and was struck by the playfulness of the writing, 'umbrellarrow', ' glad to get out to go', and more. And yet quite accessible, in a rambling, discursive kind of way. Made me want to read more. I notice he wanted to move to Ireland at one point, like Heinrich Böll.
I'm glad to have discovered him.


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Fionnuala wrote: "I had a look at one of his short stories, Drummer for the Czar"

; )

That's a nice surprise; always to hear of someone who has heard of Schmidt of whom I'd not heard at all until only recent months. He gets rrrreally Wakean in his big books:

Nate D has these cool pictures: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

And Eric provided this video of Zettel's Traum which might get pub'd in English afore too long: http://vimeo.com/6422567


Gregsamsa Nathan wrote: "Yep. There is, to my mind, no imaginable reason in the universe to read The Wake without first having read Ulysses."

I did that, and one reason would be that it makes Ulysses seem a LOT easier!

People would do well to heed Ali and not approach The Wake hermeneutically, parsing every phoneme. The formula that worked for me involved BEER and Bow Wow Wow in the background (at a civilized decibel) but, hey, it was the 80s.

Now read Umbrella.


Jonathan Gregsamsa wrote: "Nathan wrote: "Yep. There is, to my mind, no imaginable reason in the universe to read The Wake without first having read Ulysses."

I did that, and one reason would be that it makes Ulysses seem a..."


I agree, if what you want to do is "read" it. However, it seems to me there are other things that one can do with this text which are unique to it - a process, investigative, an un-peeling, a re-breaking apart - something similar to the work of a paleontologist...I am trying to resist precisely the urge to "read", and enjoying the sensation of the attempt. It is not a book, though it pretends to be one. It is a doing we can do to(o)


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Jonathan wrote: "the work of a paleontologist"

It just occurred to me that on my third pass through a paragraph, the one withwhich I read the McHugh, I seem to be using The Wake in order to decipher the McHugh. That is, one must get things backwards before one can flow forward. That third=pass is in sharp contrast with the initial, untethered pass through virgin text and the pleasures of that ;; and then the (never) final pass through a paragraph in which withmuch familiarity is met. That's three=in=one!!


Geoff Jonathan wrote: "However, it seems to me there are other things that one can do with this text which are unique to it - a process..."

Joyce gives us an idea of how to read his book early on, right around Jute and Mutt:

"Countlessness of livestories have netherfallen by this plage, flick as flowflakes, litters from aloft, like a waast wizzard of whirlwords. Now are all tombed to the mound, ishges to ishges, erde from erde...

...if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curios of signs (please stoop) in this allaphbed! Can you rede (since We and Thou had it out already) its world? It is some told of all. Many. Miscegenations on miscegenations...

...In the ignorance that implies impression that knits knowledge that finds the nameform that whets the wits that convey contacts that sweeten sensation that drives desire that adheres to attachment that dogs death that bitches birth that entails ensuance of existentiality...

...A hatch, a celt, an earshare the pourquose of which was to cassay the earthcrust at all of hours, furrowards, bagawards, like yoxen at the turnpath."


Jonathan Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "the work of a paleontologist"

It just occurred to me that on my third pass through a paragraph, the one withwhich I read the McHugh, I seem to be using The Wake in order to deciph..."


Need to get the McHugh - so far using brain and internet and other bits n bobs...The hypertext version of this will be wonderful. Would be lovely to read and click/expand etc - dig down through layers and all that...


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Jonathan wrote: "Need to get the McHugh"

I endorse this sentiment. It'll come in handy for those Norwegian and Chinese passges.

But aside from my every=word use of McHugh, I could imagine a lighter use of it ; I mean, there are a lot of the repeated things which would otherwise take a long time to catch :: 1132 ; Bonaparte ; Mt, Mk, Lk, Jn ; ALP & HCE ; 111 ; sterne and swift ; raven and dove ; Vanessa ; O'Really? ; birth-wed-die-again ; rainbows ; Hir Cirrups Emptybelly! ;; some of the fun at the wake is spotting these recurring and always recurring patterns, which McHugh (and other secondaries too) help to align.


message 96: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Lots of interesting stuff in this retroview, Nathan which I hit on via your preview of the OUP edition.

That there might be up to six separate invented structures, presumably with their own rules, for Joyce's 'restructuring of English' is a good thought for me as I make my way towards page 20 and beyond.
Plus the idea of multiple voices singing simultaneously.
And Barthelme's theory on Joyce possibly living between two languages, English and Irish, is very interesting as it's something I've been thinking on recently. And that urge to break the rules of the language once the rules have been learned, how those rules are always the possibility of their own trespass, all that makes such good reading.

Thanks for gathering such a lot of goodwordsonJoycetogether

Afterthought: Rabelais' coq-à-l’âne could be sung to the tune of the Finnegan's Wake Ballad. Ok, maybe that's a bit of a coq-à-l’âne theory..

After afterthought: That was a great piece from Federman about 'the unfinished' - he must have read my review of his La Fourrure de Ma Tante Rachel!!!


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Fionnuala wrote: "Lots of interesting stuff in this retroview, Nathan which I hit on via your preview of the OUP edition."

Thanks for dropping bye! I've not revised this moundofmud for quite some time ; haven't added to it since even more. That's what Grappa is for these days!

And Barthelme's theory on Joyce possibly living between two languages

Just to clarify, that paragraph is attributable solely to mygoodself. The Barthelme was just that thing about us all being realists. But, rather than two, Joyce lived among as many a dozen languages -- they multiply quickly!


message 98: by Fionnuala (new) - added it

Fionnuala Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Just to clarify, that paragraph is attributable solely to mygoodself. The Barthelme was just that thing about us all being realists. But, rather than two, Joyce lived among as many a dozen languages -- they multiply quickly!

Read it too fast and then had to much to say and said it too fast and forgot half of what I wanted to say in the meantime - it's a long review and a long discussion thread to scroll back and forward through to check my facts!

I read your paragraph about it is a realism relating to the experience of language, night(marre)-time language more carefully - it's full of great stuff. Night/time/night/mare/marre language - reminders of Proust again - so much of what he wrote was composed during the night and there is a nightmare quality to some of it. Ulysses had its share of night/time/mare language too. And marrer means to have fun and Joyce certainly had fun with words - Federman must have loved FW.

I love your notion of the rules of language themselves inspiring trespass.
And then the trespassing inspires more and more pastressing, more tastypastries, pastytaties, ad infinitatums..


Nathan "N.R." Gaddis Fionnuala wrote: "it's a long review and a long discussion thread to scroll back and forward through to check my facts!"

Be secure in the knowledge that I am in the same tub in that regarde.


message 100: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Fionnuala wrote: "I love your notion of the rules of language themselves inspiring trespass. And then the trespassing inspires more and more pastressing, more tastypastries, pastytaties, ad infinitatums.."

Good to see la langue out on parole!


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