Kiki's Reviews > Passion

Passion by Lauren Kate
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's review
Sep 17, 2010

it was ok
bookshelves: angels-and-demons, ya, could-have-been-worse, love-stinks, better-than-the-first-one, sentimental-value
Recommended to Kiki by: An angry cat
Recommended for: Angry cats
Read from June 16 to 29, 2011 — I own a copy

** spoiler alert ** The other day I was at Freshco with my mother and we were looking for bargains, as you do. We'd already snagged yellow corn chips for like $1.99 and a whole stack of cat food for $0.49, so I was feeling pretty pumped by the time we got to the cold section to look for juice.

My mother walks over to the chiller and looks at the prices. There's three shelves of OJ, and to the right there's a smaller bottle with pulp priced at about five dollars. To the left, there's a huge bottle without pulp priced at like $3.99.

My mother flaps between the two, and I stare at her in disbelief.

"What the hell? Pick the one on the left."

"But I want PULP."

My jaw hits the floor. We've literally saved our asses off, and here we are stressing over pulp. PULP!

So I grab the cheaper bottle, put it in the cart and say, in my best Sense The Tone voice, "Mother, I cannot believe that our financial wellbeing is now resting on you wanting pulp. Pulp!"

She grabs the cart with a scowl. "Someone's touchy. I only wanted pulp."

We do the rest of the shop in stubborn silence. Well, not the rest. We stay grumpy with each other until we reach the freezer case and start tittering about kosher ice cream and how much better it is than atheist dairy products.

Looking back, I now call this a Torment moment. Everything trips along fine until someone has to make a frivolous decision or says something not quite on the mark, and then BAM! Blitzkrieg. Ladies and gentlemen, let it be known that I adore my mother with all my being, but man, can she be a Luce when she wants to be.

Alas, it was this character model in the previous book that left a nasty taste in my mouth, and forced me to question whether or not I'd ever bother picking this one up. Let's be real here: Torment was an appalling shitstorm.

Should I go on, I wondered? Should I put myself through the agony?

Of course, that's all complete horseshit. There was never any question: I was always going to finish this series. It's a car crash. It's crack.

Look, I was under no illusions after reading the first two instalments. I set myself up some tantalizing anti-feminism folded into a good, hearty chunk of mature cheddar. All wrapped in a smooth sheet of rich, purple fondant.

And here I am, giving the book 2.5 stars.

Let me explain. Please.

So Passion's writing was peculiar in that it's kind of like that weird phase you go through when you finally decide to leave fanfiction behind; you're done with all your porny "his eyes were like shining cerulean gemstones from the Dead Sea" (laughing mildly because I don't think Ally Adornetto ever got past that stage) but you aren't sure how to really structure a sentence or write with any sort of rhythm. You don't really have a style.

That's what's weird about this book. There's no real style or flair. You couldn't read a random excerpt and think, "wow, that's definitely Lauren Kate."

Why would you, anyway. That's like eating a cheap greasy burger and then marvelling at it, exclaiming, "oh, wow, that's definitely Kraft American cheese slices. I'd know that elegant cultured taste anywhere."

I just can't really invest myself in this prose. There's just no raw skill at the core of it. Most of it barely makes sense. There's an awful lot of: "He did this. He did that. Then he did this. Then he did that. He felt this. Then he felt that."


"He could feel their ragged teeth sawing into the leather of his shoes. He could hardly breathe for the stink of their waste. He kicked out and there was a squeal. Then he gathered his feet beneath him and rose onto his haunches."


[Drinking Game: Take a shot every time you come across the word "Anachronism" in Passion. You'll be roaring drunk by the time you reach page 150. No shit.]

The dialogue wasn't too awful, but the main problem I had was that it just didn't fit with the change in time periods. We have some AngryCrazyBitchyFemale(tm) in 3100 B.C. talking about eardrums and a kitchen wench in nineteenth-century England roaring like that photo-bombing guy on that BBC news report at the Glasgow airport, who danced around behind the reporter slurring, "I hate Ice-land!". Look, it just doesn't fit.

That's another odd thing about this book. The time travel. Okay, I understand the perils of writing about time travel and I obviously commend Lauren's quite brave decision to attempt it as a plot point. Time travel is a weird thing. It's very, very difficult to make sense of and extremely hard to base a story around. (I for one can't stand it. I hate it because it isn't feasible. You simply cannot make logical sense of time travel. It's not a concept that feels even remotely comfortable to me. I just UGH. No. I hate it.)

But there are so many worrisome plot holes that can arise with time travel, and Passion really is no exception. The whole thing with 'cleaving' the present self and the past self together to go "three-D" was incredibly confusing. So Luce can blend with her past selves - but are they aware of it happening? How does Luce slot herself perfectly into the timeline? How come she doesn't change anything? You would literally have to match up every single minute movement you made with the past self, or you risk creating a ripple effect that would destroy or greatly alter the future.

And then Daniel cleaves to his past self, okay, but then kills his past self with a starshot? WTF?! How does that even make sense? IF YOU KILL YOUR PAST SELF YOUR FUTURE SELF WILL NOT EXIST. So how does it get from dead past Daniel to living future Daniel and how the hell does this act not change the future?

What the fucking fuck, Lauren Kate?

And another thing: what the hell was with the campfire scene? Anyone care to explain? We're supposedly being pulled in three directions which doesn't make sense with the premise. Luce and Daniel are torn between the good fallen angels and the bad fallen angels (don't fucking get me started) but then there's a third side involving Arriane and Annabelle, while Annabelle's role has never been fully explained and probably never will be?

And hey, I still hate all of the characters. Well, all except Cam. He got a little interesting here, though. Less insipid and dull. I like that.


Why the fuck was the whole "Daniel and I are BROTHERS, BROTHERS IN ARRRRRMS" thing treated like some big reveal? Good God, give us some credit. Anyone who knows jack shit about angels knows they're all basically siblings, considering they have the same Father. In fact, you don't even need to know jack shit. You just need a brain.

I just. . . I can't. Of course they are brothers. Of course. Fuck!

Yo, let me make something clear. This book is, by far, the best yet. The characterization was a little less paranoid and jumpy and Lord, Luce even began to sow the seeds of a personality. It was a personality worth a kick in the fucking teeth, but I'd rather hate a character than feel nothing. Yeah, Luce in this book is basically a complete fuckwit but that's better than a sad crumpled piece of wet cardboard.

And yeah, she's a fuckwit alright. After making a total fucking piss-up of her Helston life, she banged her head on the wall of the Announcer hard enough to shake her out of this blind flailing trance of pure panic that send her stumbling through her more recent lives like an ostrich on blow, but apparently it wasn't enough to force her into a state of more apt decision-making. I mean, I'd like to think that if I were Luce, after being royally fucked-over by a deceitful librarian (cough-snigger-cough) AND a friend's ex-boyfriend, and having nothing to show for it but a bloodless corpse and a really horrible haircut I'd perhaps think twice about trusting small gruff goblins (gargoyles, whatever) with my quest to reveal the secrets of the universe.

But not Luce! She's as humble and trusting as ever. She trots alongside Bill, this ridiculous caricature of a sidekick, as he supplies her with a copious wealth of deus ex machina, until the plot actually has to fucking happen and he turns out to be Satan (okay, let's not get into how deep of a mythology fail it is to equate Satan, Lucifer and the Devil. I just. . . let's not).

All those nudge-nudge hint-hint comments about not being an angel and knowing literally EVERYTHING may as well have been big, sparkly signs with 'I AM EVIL INCARNATE' written across them in scarlet Sharpie. And there's this urgent disaster moment where he grows into some 1,000 foot tall monster and Luce is screaming and there's this shitstorm that should have happened two hundred pages before and the whole thing is just so hilariously melodramatic. Someone needs to take Lauren Kate's laptop away from her until she calms down.

Bill aside, Daniel was likely the greatest evil of this book. He always does this really weird *Terminator voice* MUST PROTECT AND THEN KILL WOMAN WHO INEXPLICABLY LOVES ME thing and to be honest, it creeps me out more than anything. Like, he's this really old, old guy going after this seventeen year old girl, telling her what to do and where to go, and sexually idolizing her to the point of complete obsession. She seems to be handling things okay but he cries that she's "bound to need him" and I'm just so done with him. I'm so done with this really creepy old dude like swirling around her with eyes like spotlights, trying to mold her into the person she used to be in a past life. It's fucking sick.

Really, though. Luce is hardly Lara Croft, but she honestly does not need to be constantly rescued. By the time he came out with "she's bound to need me", Luce had already escaped a Russian war zone, saved the lives of a platoon of Italian soldiers in the back of an ambulance and traveled safely by Announcer three times. Of course, there were cries aplenty of "I WANT DANIEL" and "UGH DANIEL IS MY AIR" and "HOW WILL I SURVIVEEE" but what she shows us is that she's capable and it's Daniel holding her back. He's a really perverted crutch.

Is no one else freaked out by the whole Daniel/Luce pairing or is it just me? He's millennia old. In this life, Luce is seventeen. She isn't even old enough to buy a Bud Light. And they're in "love" like a week after they meet in this life, as if Luce is just fair game for Daniel. That's what we teach young women with these tales of weird, almost macabre romance. That their love is cheap, easy. That they're prey, and they ought to let men pounce on them and stand at their helm in total control. Isn't Luce flattered, you'll ask? Isn't she flattered that Daniel loves her?

She shouldn't be flattered. It shouldn't be flattering to have a man step into your life and tell you that he has decided that you love him, and you have no choice in the matter. You always have a choice. Your love is absolutely priceless, and anybody who thinks they are entitled to it is a grotesque self-important piece of garbage.

This book also breaks the Rule of Abeko in the most spectacular fashion, which I often use as a rule of thumb; are you willing to do some research, or do you prefer to follow in the footsteps of misogynists past?

"They [Adam and Lilith] weren't married very long when Lilith left him. It broke his heart. He waited for her a long time, but eventually, he met Eve. And Lilith never forgave Adam for getting over her. She spent the rest of her days wandering the earth and cursing the family Adam had with Eve."

Misogynists it is, then!

Lilith originates from somewhere within the darkest throes of Judeo-Christian mysticism, and was first named in the Alphabet of Ben-Sira. The real story goes that Adam and Lilith were born from the same clay, and thus equal. He tried to force Lilith to be sexually penitent, but she refused to let him dominate her, so fled. As soon as she ran away, Adam cried to God that he was alone, so God created Eve from Adam's rib so that she would forever be in debt to and a possession of man. Lilith hated Adam and refused to return to Eden, even after three angels threatened to kill a hundred of her demon children a day.

Here's a quote from the original Alphabet of Ben-Sira:

"While God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Genesis 2:18). He also created a woman, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air.

Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels to bring her back.

"Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, what is made is good. If not, she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return."

But of course we're left with some bullshit high school drama where Adam "gets over" Lilith and then dates someone new and it's lovely and cutesy and there's none of the awful original barbarism that runs so deeply through the veins of everything Bible-related.

It's also interesting to note that Lilith's true companionship was with Lucifer. They mated once and stayed allied forever, and she produced their monstrous child, Baphomet. There's some evidence that Lilith was the spouse of Sammael, but it's always made clear that Lilith had a strong relationship with Lucifer (whether or not that relationship was loving, sexual, or platonic varies from text to text). But the point is that Lilith has no affiliation with Adam after she leaves Eden. How could she be angry with Adam "getting over her" when she clearly had other fish to fry?

Bastardization of mythology that is pretty clearly laid out is a real peeve of mine. You profess to know everything about your source material but then you fuck it up royally - and it's not even like you made it better or more interesting. Kate, you've actually made Lilith's story boring. How is that even possible?

I can't. I'm done. 500% done.

So where do we go from here?

Rating this book was incredibly difficult for me. I wanted to praise it, but letting go all the little things that made me want to cry in a corner felt like a betrayal of my past self, the one that slogged through Fallen and Torment with an aging grimace. I wanted to go back and cleave to that past self, make her bang the book against her forehead until she blacked out, then kill her with a starshot so she'd never have to live in a world where this book tops the NYT bestsellers list. What is it that is so appealing about this series? Is abuse of women, of mythology and of literature now suddenly the hot new thing we all have to indulge in?

I had to be honest. I had to pick up the slack and complain. I had to go ahead and tell the truth about a product I bought that I was not entirely happy with.

This book was far from the worst I've read. In fact, in some parts, I almost enjoyed it. I mean, I get it. I get why people want to read about a pretty man and a time travelling adventure. But this book is, for young readers, an education in mythology, love and friendships. It's a piece of media, and it's being fed to legions of sponge-like minds.

"It's just a book."

Don't. Don't say that, and then in the next breath wax on about how The Hunger Games is a new piece of culture that can teach our generation a lesson and change the world. You cannot pick and choose - you do not have the luxury. Media is media, and media is a juggernaut of pure moral power. There is nothing that wields a greater capacity to teach and/or morally maul an entire generation than media. Realize this.

We all know I'm going to read Rapture, anyway. It's in the stars. Frankly, after this rollercoaster ride, I'd rather drink a cup of cold sick, but I'm in too deep now. This was the third of the Great Crimes, and we all know I'm committing the fourth. I have waded too far into this pool of curdled literary blood to turn back.

I'd also kind of like to find out what happened to Trevor. Remember him?

Good. Cause no one else does.
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Reading Progress

06/19/2011 page 1
0.0% "Okay. *cracks knuckles* LET'S DO THIS THING!"
06/19/2011 page 6
2.0% "Enough with the Outcasts. They're boring. Stop trying to make the Outcasts happen. THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN."
06/19/2011 page 19
5.0% "SOVIET RUSSIA? MY CALCULATIONS WERE CORRECT? Really, though, I'm interested. Let's see how this pans out." 2 comments
06/19/2011 page 21
5.0% "Prose is improving. Come on, Kate. Keep going..."
06/19/2011 page 24
6.0% "Oh, we lost it. Darn. Better luck next time."
06/19/2011 page 27
6.0% "Holy hell, I need a gallon of phlegm to pronounce that second-t-last line. Hufflepuff."
06/19/2011 page 32
7.0% "Daniel, you stupid asshole. Congrats on murdering your 'true love' once again." 1 comment
06/19/2011 page 48
11.0% "Blah-de-blah. Blah-de-blah. Blah-de-blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Let's cut our sentences off every fifth word. Yeah, really helps to disengage our reader." 2 comments
06/19/2011 page 58
13.0% "Great. The douche is back."
06/19/2011 page 64
15.0% "Why do you love him, Luce? Why? So far all you've commented on his how hot and perfect and gorgeous he LOOKS. You are incredibly shallow."
06/19/2011 page 72
17.0% "Get a grip, Lucia. Geez. Yeah, Luce is the same shallow drip even in her past lives (though she did show a glimmer of something back at the ambulance. Didn't last long)." 1 comment
06/19/2011 page 73
17.0% ""bound to need him"? Daniel, get your big fat head out of your ass. Bound to need you. Yeah, because she's so incompetent that she couldn't possibly have already travelled through time to escape you, fixed up a couple of minced soldiers in the back of the WWI ambulance, and survived a Russian war zone. She's no Lara Croft, Daniel, but does it look like she's desperately in need of you? Get a grip." 3 comments
06/23/2011 page 77
18.0% "Blah-de-blah, lust at first sight...Daniel pervs on a thirteen-year-old...wait, what?"
06/23/2011 page 88
21.0% "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...Bill, I know exactly who you are, and you are absolutely not funny. In the slightest. A thousand interpretations for your character, and Ms. Kate chooses done-and-dusted snarky cretin. Al Pacino already had that down, so let's try something else."
06/23/2011 page 96
23.0% "Okay, Luce. I see your plan. Torture yourself, then you'll find the key to everything! No, I don't get it either."
06/23/2011 page 98
23.0% ""Follow your heart. It won't mislead you." BLECH!" 2 comments
06/23/2011 page 101
24.0% "Yes, okay, Luce is so totes cool and goth 'cause she wears Converse. Stop trying to be down with the kids, please. You're giving me a headache."
06/23/2011 page 111
26.0% "Yay! Cam's back! The only remotely interesting and likable character, which is saying something, 'cause he's boring and unlikable has returned! Might this get interesting...?"
06/23/2011 page 113
27.0% "Ah, no such luck. We're stuck with some more TWOOLOFF4EVA..."
06/23/2011 page 114
27.0% "There it is. The quick fix. Some good ol' fashioned lust."
06/23/2011 page 121
29.0% "I like Henrietta!"
06/23/2011 page 126
30.0% "I don't recall Roland being black in either of the previous two books. Huh." 6 comments
06/23/2011 page 131
31.0% "STFU, Bill. Geez, we all know you're being a manipulative asshole, so give it up, will you? God."
06/26/2011 page 139
33.0% "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Double take much."
06/26/2011 page 142
34.0% "Insipid Luce/Lucinda. What's new?"
06/26/2011 page 146
35.0% "'Trollop'! I fucking love the British language."
06/26/2011 page 148
35.0% "Wait, what? Did you really just say that, Luce? What is THIS? Could it be...CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?"
06/26/2011 page 150
36.0% "Oh, great. A Daniel chapter. Let's skim, shall we?"
06/26/2011 page 159
38.0% "So now the death of your true love is beautiful, Daniel. You're a creep, is what you are."
06/26/2011 page 165
39.0% "Oh, great. Lulu. Pas de deux. This books is so pretentious." 4 comments
06/26/2011 page 167
40.0% "BLAAECH! Luce is envious of the sand Daniel walks on and the water bathes in. What's next? She's jealous of the air swirling around his balls?"
06/26/2011 page 169
40.0% "Ignore that last status update. That was so vulgar. Anyway, at least now we're seeing something in their relationship other than kissing and fondling and gazing silently into each other's eyes. Also, how come we never see any inkling of this tattooing on Daniel's future self? Luce didn't even ask this question! It didn't even cross her mind! What the hell."
06/26/2011 page 177
42.0% "Oh, shudder. Here, now I'm feeling mean, because this atmosphere is pretty cool and creepy. And what's weirder than going to your own funeral?"
06/26/2011 page 183
44.0% ""SHE WILL SHOWER WHEN TIBET IS FREE!" Sorry, but that Friends reference was the first thing that entered my mind at this point."
06/26/2011 page 185
44.0% "Okay, okay. Some more relationship development. A little talking. Very chaste. Not quite convinced, but getting there."
06/26/2011 page 189
45.0% "Holy shit! Oh, holy shit! That was a shock. Honest to Hell! I didn't expect that. That was horrible. I almost sympathize. No, actually, I do. Holy shit. Oh, God. This book is giving me whiplash."
06/26/2011 page 194
46.0% "Oh, shit. Please stop being so graphic. I don't need to know."
06/26/2011 page 195
46.0% "Dare I say it? Dare I? I do. I'm warming to Cam. He's...less of a douchebag."
06/26/2011 page 201
48.0% "A French chapter title? Are you serious? Come on. Let's try to appeal to a wider audience, please. It didn't impress us in 13 to Life, and it doesn't impress us here. Come on, now."
06/26/2011 page 207
49.0% "Bill? What the hell are you doing? What is this? What Not to Wear? Pineapple Dance Studios?"
06/26/2011 page 212
06/26/2011 page 216
51.0% "Of course, Luce would be ZEE CHOZEN WUN to marry the King. Of course she would." 2 comments
06/26/2011 page 225
54.0% "There's that pesky emotion again! Look, they're both idiotic placecards, but this is still kind of...sad."
06/26/2011 page 233
55.0% "Oh, God. Daniel, seriously. Sometimes you make me want to slap you into next week with a rotten pike, and sometimes you just make me sad. Overall, you're kind of pathetic."
06/26/2011 page 238
57.0% "That same old tired mistake. When are people going to actually read Romeo and Juliet and stop calling it a "great love story"? Lauren Kate, come on! Read the damn thing! Stop being a sheep! Stop following the footsteps of Meyer and Adornetto! ARGH!"
06/26/2011 page 242
58.0% "A beard? Oh, God!"
06/26/2011 page 244
58.0% ""Unmannerly"? And you'll take this belittlement, won't you, Luce? Because he's hot. Back to square one, it seems."
06/26/2011 page 246
59.0% "Could Luce please ACTUALLY follow in Anne Boleyn's footsteps? Heads shall roll! Also, I am in high doubt about casual references to Mars at this point in time. No one knew it was even an actual planet until Galileo secretly looked at it with a primitive telescope in 1609. Would that make it common knowledge by 1613? No."
06/26/2011 page 255
61.0% "Yay, Cam! ....wait, what? Did I just say that? I think I did. Mainly because right now he's the only remotely interesting character in the entire cast." 2 comments
06/26/2011 page 258
61.0% "D'aww."
06/26/2011 page 265
63.0% "I am so confused right now. Like, legit. I have no idea what's going on."
06/26/2011 page 270
64.0% "Still have no idea what's going on."
06/26/2011 page 273
65.0% "Oh, fuck! Out of the way, people! Projectile barf coming through! That is fucking disgusting."
06/26/2011 page 275
65.0% "Ix what? Ix Cuat? How do you even say that? What happened to the L- pattern?"
06/26/2011 page 284
68.0% "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. 2012. Lol, Bill - why don't you go talk to the guys at Ubisoft? They'd give you a heads-up."
06/26/2011 page 294
70.0% "Do it, Daniel! PLEASE THE RAIN GOD!"
06/26/2011 page 305
73.0% "What the fuck is going on?"
06/26/2011 page 308
06/26/2011 page 310
74.0% "Oh, here we go. Butchery coming up. For the love of fuck."
06/26/2011 page 312
74.0% "NO. No, honey, that's NOT how Lilith's story goes. That's completely and utterly wrong. WRONG. God, how DARE she twist this? How dare she! I'm absolutely seething right now. Passion just lost a star from me. Thanks, Lauren Kate, for completely ruining the story of Lilith and filling the minds of thousands with bogus crap that, once again, demonizes one of the most important yet unknown biblical women." 8 comments
06/26/2011 page 315
75.0% "Of course Cam would be the reasonable one, being the male angel that he is. I am still so angry right now, I can't even...ARGH!"
06/26/2011 page 318
76.0% "Too fucking right, Lilith. You leave with your pride, girl. FUCK THEM."
06/26/2011 page 325
77.0% "Thin and pretty, thin and pretty. Always thin and pretty. Yeah, yeah. Beauty is the best thing ever. We get it."
06/26/2011 page 327
78.0% "Yeah, yeah. Of course she would be the king's wife. And how many times have we heard that excuse? "He killed himself!" Whatever. Lu Xin killed him. Obviously. Put a pick-axe in her head, Luce, and save us all a coronary." 5 comments
06/28/2011 page 329
78.0% "Let's not condone cheating, please."
06/28/2011 page 333
79.0% "OhmiGOD! What's this? What the...? Luce is being all...strong! She's totally taking initiative! Holy SHEET! This is like Mulan all over again..."
06/28/2011 page 339
81.0% "Oh, yeah. Huh. Yay, I guess. *headshake* So much for that. Hurray, Luce. Daniel came to rescue you again. How wonderful for you."
06/28/2011 page 345
82.0% "Yeah. Okay. Come on, Ms. Kate. Quit trying to make your characters to blameless all the time. They're already completely unrelatable as it is."
06/28/2011 page 347
83.0% "DEATH. AGAIN. Luce, why not die and stay dead? That way all the world's problems would be solved."
06/28/2011 page 351
84.0% "LUCE, FUCKING LISTEN TO BILL. IT WOULD SAVE YOU A LOT OF SHIT. Also, finally someone's thinking about the bigger picture here! Finally!"
06/28/2011 page 354
84.0% "I can't believe you think THAT'S a revelation, Kate. I knew that from the moment we met both guys in the first book. I thought everyone was supposed to already realize that. Failure."
06/28/2011 page 358
85.0% "Whoa! Creepy baby, much! Chuckie alert!"
06/28/2011 page 365
87.0% "Donkor. Donkor. Lol."
06/28/2011 page 366
87.0% "I'm pretty sure they didn't know what eardrums were in 3100 B.C. Fail."
06/28/2011 page 368
88.0% "YES! IT'S BACK AGAIN! Them's fightin' words, Luce!" 3 comments
06/29/2011 page 377
06/29/2011 page 381
91.0% "Enough with the whooshing! Enough!"
06/29/2011 page 384
91.0% "Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I knew that was coming. I'm not impressed. Nor am I the slightest bit frightened. Or threatened. Or entertained."
06/29/2011 page 389
93.0% "Disney villain. Again! "This is my plan, mwahahaha! I shall destroy the world!" Bo-ring."
06/29/2011 page 392
93.0% "What? WHAT? How is that even going to work? What a stupid, stupid, evil master plan. I don't even understand how that will...what? What?"
06/29/2011 page 397
06/29/2011 page 408
97.0% "Again, incredibly confused. Clearly, Lauren Kate lied, and this book does not hold "all the answers". What the HELL is Luce? Really?"
06/29/2011 page 415
99.0% "I still don't understand that eeeeeeevil master plan. I'm trying, truly I am. But I don't understand how that's going to work. It just makes absolutely no sense to me."
06/29/2011 page 416
99.0% "So. Many. Mythology. Fails. I don't even know where to start."
06/29/2011 page 418
100.0% "Yes, Molly! That was awesome. You rock."
06/29/2011 page 419
100.0% "This makes absolutely no sense."
06/29/2011 page 420
100.0% "YES! FREEEEDOM! I'm finally done, thank fuck! Now, let's get started on that sparkling review..." 3 comments
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message 101: by [deleted user] (new)

Kira wrote: "Mocha, you and I misunderstood. Hunter was originally referring to the Passion cover image, by saying This is the EXACT picture on Deviant art. I thought it was an attack on me because of the graph..."

Okay, let me see if I finally have it straight. So the image on the Passion cover uses a stock image that was up on Deviantart? If so...someone find me a link because I need to see this. If i'm still confused...just wow, maybe I'm having a slow day.

message 102: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars


There's a link to one of the MANY pictures using this stock. The linked pic is by one of my favourite dA artists.

message 103: by Kiki (last edited Jun 10, 2011 06:47PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Lissa, I just had to say that I agree with everything you said.

Don't get me started talking about sex. Ahem.

message 104: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 10, 2011 08:49PM) (new)

Hope they paid for it before using it:

Found another cover using the picture you linked too:

message 105: by Paul (new)

Paul Daniels Hello all, I was wondering why there was a spike in the traffic to our server, now I see, you've linked the image of our yet-to-be-released book.

For clarification, we did pay for the artwork ( Quite a bit, from Deviant Art ) and I did the typography as well as some other minor mods.

message 106: by [deleted user] (new)

Jahlia wrote: "Paul wrote: "Hello all, I was wondering why there was a spike in the traffic to our server, now I see, you've linked the image of our yet-to-be-released book.

For clarification, we did pay for t..."

Oh, he means about the image of Elita's novel. Sorry about that Paul, I'll be sure to re-upload the image on a separate server. I wasn't accusing anyone else of stealing it, just mentioned that I hoped the designers of the Passion cover had paid for it.

message 107: by Paul (new)

Paul Daniels Jahlia wrote: Wait, a spike in the traffic of your server? What do you mean by that paul? O_O

I was just sitting here on a lovely cool Saturday morning watching the traffic requests on our web-server (Elita's web page), when I saw a sudden increase in the number of requests to view the Boyfriend-zombie cover image, all linking back to this discussion, so I came in to find out why :)

message 108: by Paul (last edited Jun 10, 2011 08:56PM) (new)

Paul Daniels Mocha ღ,

It's quite okay, it's not a lot of data and it was good to see the pickup in traffic from the thread, so in many ways it was preferred that you did do the link :)

After we had licenced the background cover art we realised just how many other people had used that stock art :sigh:, though I did the best I could to put a sufficiently unique spin to it. *hopes* :)

message 109: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Paul, I'm actually glad you picked this image (especially since you did the right thing and gave the right credit!). I just love the artist who created the original manipulation, she's extremely talented and her pieces are just lovely. I hope that when I have my work published, her art will be stamped on to my book jacket.

message 110: by Paul (new)

Paul Daniels Kira wrote: "Paul, I'm actually glad you picked this image..."

Thank you Kira. It's not the first time we've licenced artwork from DA and certainly won't be the last.

Wish you the best of luck with getting your own works published. Are you going to go with the self-published route or try and pick up a traditional?
(Sorry, I suppose this is drifting off-topic now).

message 111: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Paul, I'm extremely glad to hear that. There really are some amazingly talented and kind people on deviantART who need a break. It's wonderful that you're working toward building careers for both authors and artists.

As for the publishing front, I'm leaning toward the traditional approach. I'm new to the biz, so I think to go through the agent process would be an excellent learning curve for me as a debut author. I'm also one of those pesky people who someday wants some film rights sold and my bookie on the big screen, so I think finding an agent would be the best option for me.

And thanks for the good luck wish! I'm overhauling my manuscript and tightening everything up, while sending queries out left, right and centre. I feel like my ideas and inspiration are pretty original, so I'm holding out for someone who gets and respects that, and is willing to guide me swiftly into the world of publishing.

message 112: by Kiki (last edited Jun 13, 2011 08:06PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Personally, I'm not a teenage girl, I'm independent, but I am a tennis coach and I coach a lot of teenage girls.

Maddison, thank fucking feminists for your right to be a tennis coach. For your right to be independent and have a career. How many fucking times have I heard this from OTHER WOMEN? "Whiny feminists". Yeah, whiny feminists who gave us the right to work and vote and learn and not be raped by our husbands. Thirteen-year-olds are reading this, Maddison, and being told - at an age where the mind is a dry sponge - that it is okay AND ROMANTIC to lay down and be a penitent dog while your man flips you the bird and lies to you pathologically, which is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. And nobody on this thread, including me, has ever asked for a whipped man and a chauvinist woman. In fact, female chauvinism makes me sick, because it's hypocrisy in the worst way. I loathe misandry as much as I loathe anti-feminism. Don't come here telling me that because I am a feminist, I hate men. Don't you dare.

Also, I whole-heartedly agree with Paige. Especially: I’m never looking for those messages when I want to read a book. If they’re there, they’re there and I see them. Criticizing the themes of a book (which those messages usually are) is just part of reviewing a book.

It's true. I respect my gender, and I am proud to be female, so when I stumble across (STUMBLE ACROSS) something that violates my beliefs, I will voice my concerns, because being a person with human rights means that I can.

message 113: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis You have the right to disagree, and we have the right to tell you you're wrong.

(Hi, Kira. I couldn't resist. This one is fucking exemplary. How come you always get the good trolls?)

Anyhow, I'm not sure where you get the idea that people like Kira make girls think 'half of this shit'. For that matter, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'half of this shit'. I'm going to guess you have enough brain cells not to call the idea of equality shit, so you can't be talking about feminism. Which means, as far as I can tell, that you're accusing Kira and people like her of... of making girls think they're worthless without a hot guy? Is that it?
Clear that up for me, and we shall proceed.

(Also, her views aren't that extreme. She ain't burnin' bras here. She's criticizing a book that idealizes an abusive relationship.)

message 114: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis You called me insane and you want to agree to disagree? Hmm, nah. How about you at least have the decency to answer my question? What's the 'half this shit' you were referring to above?

By the way, if you've argued with enough people to notice a pattern (namely, that their friends tend to join in) maybe you should have learned that the best way to avoid "all the keyboard warriors" getting involved is to not troll in the first place.

message 115: by Vi (new)

Vi Vi Maddison wrote: "See this is the thing I hate about goodreads, all the keyboard warriors get on, stuffing their opinions in other peoples faces and ark up when someone doesn't agree with them.

Maddison. Dude. THIS IS KIRA'S REVIEW. Dude, YOU'RE the one who 'got on' or rather got in someone else's space, stuffed your opinion in their faces and are now 'arking it up' because Kira (WHOSE REVIEW THIS IS) doesn't agree with you. Like seriously, why trolls run into others review to whine about the difference in opinion, and then continue to whine when the reviewer herself -shock - DEFENDS her review is just completely beyond me lol.

Anyway, Kira, I saw your ace comment on my friend's feed and just wanted to say AMEN! You smashed it. Completely true.

message 116: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Answer.

Pretty please with a cherry on top?

It's your right to state your opinion. It's my right to state my opinion of your opinion. Not hypocrisy - equality. It's also your right to a) suck it up and take it like adult, b) learn from the experience and try not to offend people in future, or c) pitch a hissy fit and provide an evening of entertainment for me.

You have to realize, though, that when you arrive in a discussion and call someone a 'ranting feminist', especially when that someone takes feminism seriously, you're going to get bitchslapped - figuratively speaking, that is. Your entry was rude. You're dealing with the consequences.

And personally, if I ever demonstrated the shocking lack of social grace to do the same thing, I would expect retaliation. That's the way it goes.

message 117: by Lissa (new)

Lissa Madison, it's wonderful you have the option to coach tennis to other girls. You know in tennis how women don't get to play as many sets as men do, and as a consequence win less cash in the big competitions? Do you realise that extends across the entire world in almost every concept - not just privileged first nations, but third world countries as well?
I'll give you some numbers:
2/3 of the entire world's work is done by women.
Women earn 10% of the total income.
and own 1% of the property.
1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence, and every week 2 women in the UK are killed by a current of former partner.

Please explain to me exactly - I mean *exactly* - how being a feminist and wanting equality between the genders - for that is ALL feminism is - is an "incredibly extreme view." If you don't know, or you think you're cool for being an anti-feminist, or somehow you've confused regular feminism with radical misandry, admit it and stop stirring up shit.

I wish I'd read Kira's reviews before buying Fallen and Torment. What a waste of my hard-earned cash. I will continue to tell other people exactly what I think because it's sad when books like these become popular for no other reason than young girls want to be like vapid, self-centred, passive Luce. Like the only thing they need to become whole is a hot guy - not a nice, interesting, caring guy who is easy to talk to and you can share interests with, but a guy that is physically attractive and that's it.

Yes, it's a story. We don't like it. We're expressing that.

message 118: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Lissa, you have earned my eternal respect.

message 119: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Jahlia, you've got my eternal respect now too. Don't be ashamed of length; it was worth it!

And I do think she's a troll, just not in the mythological sense. I think she's an internet troll. Which is different. Apologies if that caused any confusion.

message 120: by [deleted user] (new)

at the end of the day if you don't like a book keep it to youreslf lauren kate is an amazing writer in my opinion and you have no right to be so offensive.

Beth   (the one who is) Paige wrote: "Ellie, we as readers have the right to speak out when we read a book and dislike it. Like a review I admire once said, books cost too much now to be able to freely waste money on them and reviews a..."

Why Can't Ellie say she likes the Author? Why was it wrong of her to comment that she liked the author?

message 122: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Beth, Paige never said Ellie can't say she likes the author. She simply suggested that this isn't the best place to say it.

Ellie, this is a review website. It's about opinions. Everyone here has the right to express theirs. You are entitled to love these books. Others are entitled to hate them. And no matter which side a person is on, they are entitled to write a review and express their thoughts because that is the purpose of Goodreads.
Kira has every right to "be so offensive". And frankly, she's not being that mean. Trust me, the gloves are still on. Did you read her review? She never wishes Ms. Kate ill will; she goes into each book hoping it will be good. There are a lot of readers out there meaner and more offensive than Kira.

message 123: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 01:41PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Maddison wrote: "I actually don't argue with anyone, but I see it ALLLL the time. I felt the need to say something this time because this pissed me off.

You all say it's my human right to state my opinion rah rah..."

You did the same thing, Maddison! You shot down not only me, but an entire philosophy! Maybe it isn't important to you, but it should be. You don't have to campaign, you don't even have to be as vocal about it as I am. All you need to do is be aware, and not trash such an important movement - the same movement that gave all of us women the right to argue our points and speak our minds as we are right now. Yes, my reply was heated, but it makes me crazy, you know? You are an accomplished, intelligent, beautiful woman (we all are, in fact) and yet you shoot us down for celebrating these things and aspiring to take control of our romantic lives. Hell, I am in a relationship with someone I love very much, and will love for a very long time, but I wouldn't if he had flashed an obscene hand gesture at me on the day we met, or told me what colour my hair should be, or told me to shut up when I tried to defend myself after he compulsively lied to my face. No. He respects me and my beliefs, and I respect him and his. We stand on equal ground, face to face, because if we didn't, we'd overbalance and fall out of sync, and that's not what either of us wants.

In no way are we man-haters, Maddison. I don't want you to think we are. We are simply women who care about the human race and want equality in our society. This is 2011 A.D., and we live in world where there is still so much animosity and hatred between races, creeds, sexes, sexualities, faiths and pretty much any diverse groups you can think of. We're not putting you down and we're not trying to demean you. We're putting our point across and asking that you try to understand it. Our world is still changing and we have to change with it, and that means questioning things that weren't to be questioned before us. It means getting the best we possibly can out of the things we have, and standing up to voice our concerns when we think that perhaps society could be altered for the better.

message 124: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 14, 2011 01:39PM) (new)

" We are simply women who care about the human race and want equality in our society. This is 2011 A.D., and we live in world where there is still so much animosity and hatred between races, creeds, sexes, sexualities, faiths and pretty much any diverse groups you can think of. We're not putting you down and we're not trying to demean you. We're putting our point across and asking that you try to understand it. Our world is still changing and we have to change with it."

Yes...I'll definitely be making a golden plaque out of this and hang it up on my wall. Well said, Kira.

message 125: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 01:47PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Ellie wrote: "at the end of the day if you don't like a book keep it to youreslf lauren kate is an amazing writer in my opinion and you have no right to be so offensive."

Ha ha ha.

lauren KaTe iz liek Teh shiz so STOP bein so mEAnZ! yhoo jest DonT gEt teh EpC luV storry!!11!!!!!one!!!111

In all seriousness, Beth, Ellie can say she likes the author if she wants. I don't give a shit. More power to her. It's when she comes out with things like at the end of the day if you don't like a book keep it to youreslf that there are problems. I have had so many people here tooting their own horns and crying about being offended, but do any of them give a shit if they offend me? Hell no.

Maybe sit back and think about why, in the western world where freedom of speech is a human right, Ellie's comment about why her opinion matters and mine doesn't is in any way right or fair.

message 126: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Anila wrote: "Beth, Paige never said Ellie can't say she likes the author. She simply suggested that this isn't the best place to say it.

Ellie, this is a review website. It's about opinions. Everyone here ..."

Anila, I fucking love you. Sorry, just had to get that out of the way. Also, have you noticed how many trolls I've gotten on this review, which, quite frankly, is lukewarm compared to some of my other scream-rant-crazy fests? I've had maybe one person disagree with my Halo review, which was a freaking bloodbath, and this one...well, I feel bad for it! I think I was pretty kind to Ms. Kate here. I even made excuses for her.

It's weird.

message 127: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 01:48PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars


I'm exhausted after all that replying. Someone get me some thimbles for my bloodied typing fingers!

message 128: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Hah, I love you too Kira. You are the shiz.

And yeah, I noticed the troll disparity. Maybe they're just scared of the really negative reviews? It's hard to argue with something that's very strongly worded. Maybe they think you're showing weakness by giving Ms. Kate the benefit of the doubt. And lo, like sharks smelling blood in the water, they have converged on that apparent weakness.

*passes thimbles* Take yourself a well-deserved rest.

message 130: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Ah fuck, One Hundred Years of Solitude. That explains so much about this series.

message 131: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 02:02PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Gee, that LK article was riveting...

The backs of my eyelids kept me more entertained, I must say. And why do YA authors always have to compare their books to classics/old books people think they have to like because they're old (but shit)? Why can't they make up a more interesting lie about how they came up with the idea for their old hat paranormal love story? I know telling the truth ("I copied it from Twilight" or "the book packaging company made me do it") is just SO nineties now, but someone who's supposed to be imaginative could at least flex the old grey matter a little more.

message 132: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Paige wrote: "What about me? I just want to be LOOOOOOOOVED! Ignore that. There might be a little drama queen in my brain trying to hijack my fingers.

It's kind of funny that two comments like that showed up ..."

Paige, darling. We're boob buddies. There ain't nothing getting in our way.

I love you, dear.

message 133: by Cory (new)

Cory I liked The Great Gatsby and 100 Years of Solitude. It doesn't bother me that she liked them. But I am rather astounded that she compares her crappy books to them. She might want to try comparing her works to something off of first.

message 134: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Well, arguably, lying is an act of imagination, even if it's not a very inspired lie. And we know Kate isn't particularly imaginatively inspired in general, so it shouldn't be suprising.

For what it's worth, Paige, I love you for your comments here too.

message 135: by Katya (last edited Jun 14, 2011 02:16PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katya Kira wrote: "Gee, that LK article was riveting...

The backs of my eyelids kept me more entertained, I must say. And why do YA authors always have to compare their books to classics/old books"
Because they need to class up the act?

I come in a little late in this discussion, but I think that a review that states why exactly the series aren't quite made of awesome is better than a review that says 'it's shit'. Also - if you comment on the thread of someone who didn't like the book, chances are, most people who see your comment agree with the author. "Keyboard warriors", was it? How about starting a thread of your own and see how many show up?

message 136: by Katya (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katya Paige wrote: "What about me? I just want to be LOOOOOOOOVED! Ignore that. There might be a little drama queen in my brain trying to hijack my fingers.

It's kind of funny that two comments like that showed up ..."

Not to mention the difference in age and experience between Alexandra Adornetto and Lauren Kate. I know writing ability doesn't come with age, but it shows that the author was 17 when you open Halo. Even without the abhorrent messages in that book, people would still hate on it because it's just not all that well written. Lauren Kate has had more time to study, practice, and cultivate her writing style, which gives her a slightly bigger fanbase. Hell, I even admitted that Luce would have been a good character if it hadn't been for Daniel, who oh so conveniently swoops in to turn her into a mindless puppet the SECOND she starts to show any inkling towards individuality of free will.

message 137: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 02:26PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Me neither, Paige. There's absolutely nothing that could be compared to what I'm working on, because it doesn't ring a bell with anything I've read to date. I could lie and say "1984!" or "The Hunger Games!" but at the same time I'd be thinking "slavery!" or "animal cruelty!" or "shitty anti-feminist tropes!" or "discrimination!" or, even better, "the fucking nuclear warhead that was inexplicably fucking lost during the Cold War!"

message 138: by Katya (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katya Paige wrote: "Katya wrote: "Paige wrote: "What about me? I just want to be LOOOOOOOOVED! Ignore that. There might be a little drama queen in my brain trying to hijack my fingers.

It's kind of funny that two c..."

There's always hope for fanfiction. Cam/Daniel fanfiction, to be exact.

Jahalia wrote:
Perhaps someone should point Mz. Alexandra into the right direction. A GOOD teen writer. Ameila atwater rhodes, hmm?

Oooh, someone to add to my TBR list. Definitely!

Alexandra Adornetto's confidence is exceptional, I give her that. To publish a book, especially one where the author was being so openly opinionated, takes some guts. I can't help but think, though, that five years from now, she'll be looking back on those series and blushing with discomfort. That's what happens with me and my old writing.

message 139: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 03:09PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki Maddison wrote: "I must say, that Kira I read some of your other reviews, and despite whether I agree or disagree with you I have to say that you are an amazing writer, you're quite funny to read.
I understand exa..."

Thank you, Maddison. I am so glad we've reached a point where we can understand each other. Let's shake cyber-hands. :)

Katya, I get you totally. When I was about twelve, I wrote a 50,000 word "book" and at the time I thought it was amazing. Now, when I look back on it, I cringe. Actually, I hid the manuscript in one of the zipped folders at the very bottom of my computer's Documents space. *shudder*

Funny, though. When I was twelve, I wrote about teen pregnancy and domestic abuse against males. There was always a little Kira in me, it seems.

message 140: by Kiki (last edited Jun 14, 2011 06:38PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars


Whoever cares to, read this. It's a prime example of how the relationships in this book are taken to heart--by thirteen-year-olds.

message 141: by Kiki (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kiki I know, Palice. It's utterly mind-blowing. She equates lust with love, which is one of the stupidest analogies ever. They're opposites in every way.

message 142: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis I love how she mentions that she gets questions about "aren't you supposed to be friends first?" and then never says how she answers them. I really, really want to know what she'd say.

message 143: by Chelsea (new) - added it

Chelsea I don't really think she gets a say over the cover of the book. =/ I just think this was more than OTT. I don't think I'm a minority here but if I published a book and then read something like this, it would be more than crushing.

message 144: by Kogiopsis (new)

Kogiopsis Why someone would come to a signing = because they're dying to know the answer to their question. Duh.

Also, you Canadians are awesome in general.

message 145: by Lissa (new)

Lissa Paige wrote: "I can't tell the truth (saying "I was inspired by how cliche vampire fanfic is and I wanted to fuck with all the stereotypes" or "I got so sick of seeing obsessive/abusive behavior passed off as romantic that I decided to play it straight.""

Wait, you mean I can't say the reason I wrote a book where the main character is responsible for her own storyline, kicks butt in general, and falls in love with an ugly guy isn't because I was sick to bloody death of all the YA paranormal rot? But that was what I was counting on...

message 146: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Cousins If u hated Fallen so much then why read Tormented??? This is a fictional book aka not real! I think ur taking the books waaaaay too seriously! It's not about anti - feminist and all that nonsense! Its a fantasy book about a fantasy world that will NEVER actually happen.
Cant u just forget about the real world for a little while just to enjoy the amazing story that Lauren Kate is telling.
When u were younger im sure u were told fairy tales like Cinderella etc where the main point was becoming a princess and living happily ever after with prince charming! Books like Fallen, for me personally, enable us to forget about the real world and live in a place where things like true love really does conquer all!! Totally cheeesy and never gonna happen in reality but sometimes isn't it nice just to be able to imagine and pretend that fairy tales do exist?
oh and btw u know NOTHING about Lauren Kate and to accuse her of just trying to make a quick buck on the back of a popular genre is down right out of order. You can have your opinion of the books, every one is entitled to that. but to personally attack Lauren Kate when im assuming you dont know her at all and have never even had a conversation with her is dam right disrespectful. I dont understand who you think you are to insult her and say things like i believe you can do better so prove me right! Are you some award winning author thats sold millions and millions of books world wide and topped every book chart there is? No i didnt think so. So infuture u may want to think twice before u personally attack an author and her intentions for writing a book.

message 147: by Katya (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katya What I don't get is why you would come out to a signing for an author you hated, let alone stand out in the cold all day to get in.

Because many women went through hell, sacrificed their lives and health and peace, to bring us the right to be considered human beings, and because us acting like we want to go back to the Middle Ages is not only contradictory to their sacrifice, but insulting as well.

message 148: by Katya (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katya Also, Lissa, I agree with you completely. If our society celebrated uniqueness, then why are all these heroines in the paranormal genre so completely interchangeable?

message 149: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Cousins Paige wrote: "Rachel wrote: "If u hated Fallen so much then why read Tormented??? This is a fictional book aka not real! I think ur taking the books waaaaay too seriously! It's not about anti - feminist and all ..."

I clearly said that everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the books. What i think is unacceptable is saying, and i quote: "chameleon writer, tapping out whatever is popular right now in order to make as much money as possible from naive Cullen-loving thirteen-year-olds". She has no right to personally attack the author with comments like that. Reading interviews does not mean that you know a person. Saying things such as, "It saddens me. You could have the potential to be a good author" Is not being polite, not where i come from anyway. And this is where my argument about being a best selling author comes from. What does she know that she can say Lauren Kate has the potential to be a good author, if she herself has written something truly amazing that has sold many copies etc, then fair enough she may possibly be in a position to make a comment like that. Trash the books as much as you want as i've said everyone is entitled to their own opinion but dont make it personal to the author, as you said, the author is not the book.

message 150: by Lissa (last edited Jun 15, 2011 07:49AM) (new)

Lissa Rachel wrote: "if she herself has written something truly amazing that has sold many copies etc, then fair enough she may possibly be in a position to make a comment like that."

No, sweetheart, that's NOT the way book reviews work. We're READERS. Sure some of us may be writers, but we are READERS primarily, and just because someone has published a book doesn't mean they automatically know what's good and what's not.

A complete douche bag of a misogynist author, VS Naipul, said that no woman writer is his equal and that Jane Austen is a load of bollocks. He's a successful author, he's even a Nobel laureate. If you want to read the article, I will post the link here:

I find it insulting. Here's a published successful author, by your standards, saying ridiculous things about other authors. But he has no idea what he's saying, because Jane Austen is awesome.

But my point is, sweetheart, that you don't have to sell millions of books or even write a book to know what you do and don't like about books. There are far more readers in the world than there are writers. According to this logic, every reader would have to write and sell a book before they can ever write a negative review of something they simply did not like. That's not the way the world works, and it's certainly not the way book reviews work.

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