BlackOxford’s review of The Hero With a Thousand Faces > Likes and Comments

I think, Blackie, that Eliot, who I just read, emphazied 'hope,' and abnegated 'faith.' But really, who cares what he wrote? And why I am writing this now? Of course, liked your insight here.

david wrote: "I think, Blackie, that Eliot, who I just read, emphazied 'hope,' and abnegated 'faith.' But really, who cares what he wrote? And why I am writing this now? Of course, liked your insight here."

Fabulous. Give me a reference will you?

Sounds terrific. Wonderful commentary and I love the quote at the end.

Are these iconic stories with their symbols intended to have the same effect on each reader or is there an essential ambiguity in the narrative?

A reference? It was in "The Family Reunion." I will see if there are any quotes I marked to attest, nay, confirm my veracity. Please wait. Couple minutes.

“You do not know what hope is, until you have lost it. You only know what it is not to hope: You do not know what it is to have hope taken from you, Or to fling it away, to join the legion of the hopeless Unrecognised by other men, though sometimes by each other.”
― T.S. Eliot, The Family Reunion
This was not the reference you required. I guess I did not highlight it. You may have to read this short play yourself Blackie. A reference I can give you now is for the best smoked sturgeon, Russ and Daughters, lower east side. This is one of the very few things I am certain about. A valid reference..

Daniel wrote: "Sounds terrific. Wonderful commentary and I love the quote at the end."

Thanks Daniel.

HBalikov wrote: "Are these iconic stories with their symbols intended to have the same effect on each reader or is there an essential ambiguity in the narrative?"

Rather than ambiguity, perhaps call It generality in which details can be added or subtracted. And don’t forget: the ‘classic’ stories are only representative. There are an infinity of others never written down or yet spoken.

david wrote: "“You do not know what hope is, until you have lost it. You only know what it is not to hope: You do not know what it is to have hope taken from you, Or to fling it away, to join the legion of the h..."

Thanks old chap. Your references are excellent. You’re hired. And there are many days on which I wish I had access to the Lower East Side, not to mention Zabar ‘s.

That was a wonderful review. Thank you.

Blackie, I have some very sad news for you. Sitting down? I think Zabars, my one true love, has closed. As has, H&H Bagels next door. But I could be wrong. Have not been to the Upper West in a while.

A. wrote: "That was a wonderful review. Thank you."

Thanks back A.

david wrote: "Blackie, I have some very sad news for you. Sitting down? I think Zabars, my one true love, has closed. As has, H&H Bagels next door. But I could be wrong. Have not been to the Upper West in a while."

What?! And today was going so well. How is this possible? Where do people get their half-sours now? Never mind the potato salad. Please tell me it has nothing to do with DJT. I couldn’t bear it. I’ll start sitting shiva tomorrow.

Make sure, Blackie, to cover all the mirrors. I know, half sours used to be my life support system. Coincidentally, or, btw, which industry has the lowest healthcare costs for its' workers?

Alex. What is the pickle packaging industry?
You are correct. Please proceed.
Alex. Kosher pickles for $400, please.
The daily double.

david wrote: "Make sure, Blackie, to cover all the mirrors. I know, half sours used to be my life support system. Coincidentally, or, btw, which industry has the lowest healthcare costs for its' workers?

Alex...."

You wont believe this but it is not possible to get a decent kosher pickle, never mind sour, in this entire country. It’s my only gripe about Britain. I can’t understand it. Doesn’t anyone see the commercial opportunity or is the EU stopping their importation? Another mystery.

Blackie. You must be kidding. No pickles? And why are you guys so worried about Brexit when there is a marinated cucumber famine on the island?

I tell ya, my friend, deli is yesterday's news. Even in the States there are few glorious viands from yesteryear.

2nd ave deli, which is naturally on 3rd, stinks now. Zabars and HH gone. Oh and that one Brooklyn, Ratners, gone. Carnegie, a tourist trap, gone.

These are the real issues of the day. Forget the politics and make America smoked fish again.

Ms. Maybe, your PM, should look into this kosher kerfuffle.

david wrote: "Blackie. You must be kidding. No pickles? And why are you guys so worried about Brexit when there is a marinated cucumber famine on the island?

I tell ya, my friend, deli is yesterday's news. Eve..."

Good point. I shall write to the Times (London of course) and demand an inquiry.

As you say, we are all “entitled to hope”, but let me offer a more contrarian, heretical, and skeptical interpretation of Joseph Campbell’s alleged “Power of Myth” for those who may share my cynicism (and those who don’t). I stopped believing in the Christian God as a teenager. I was raised in the Catholic faith by very devout parents and full-on Catholic education through university. After that much religious upbringing, abandoning God left a very big hole in my heart. I was a young, deeply thoughtful and very lost boy who burned with questions about the nature of existence and the proper way to live. It was at that point I discovered Aldous Huxley’s The Perennial Philosophy on my father’s bookshelf. Ironically my father used the book to support his own, reverse “catholic” universalism (of the one true faith variety). Little did he know that the book would only accelerate my separation from the Church. Written in 1945 a few years before Campbell’s book reviewd here, The Perennial Philosophy espoused Huxley’s universalist view of religion. This had a long tradition in his home of Great Britain going back to the colonization of India and Annie Besant’s Theosophical Society. In fact, Huxley was a colleague of hers and helped carry Theosophy and Vedanta Hinduism to the counterculture of the American west coast with other Brits like Alan Watts

It was not long into reading the book that Huxley’s view became my own. There was a universal spirit, he claimed, which gave rise to all reality. It was impossible for the human mind to grasp, but men and women throughout time had glimpsed it. Our myths and religions were but pale remnants of such moments. One could find some solace in these artifacts, but the real task was to drink directly from the divine stream flowing eternally from this reality. Such notions perfectly satisfied my own desire to cut through the rubbish of man-made religion which I knew all too well. To go to the Source of all Water (and all capital letters), to be a Mystic became my new ideal. I read the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Sufis and even discovered Christian mystics like St. John of the Cross and Meister Eckhart. I practiced meditation and went on retreats, and yes, read lots of Joseph Campbell. Huxley joined Campbell in the belief of a deep reality beneath myths. Neither believed they were merely powerful poems or genetic archetypes but “fingers pointing to the Moon.” I think like me, people find these stories and Eastern spirituality consoling because they can still believe in something outside the material world – something beyond death that gives everything meaning and value. But they can do this without the obviously imperfect institutions of Christianity. They can be “spiritual but not religious.”

I ended my quest to become a mystic in my late thirties. The realization came while reading a book about the neuroscience of religion. The author had readers imagine that they were constructing a robot which could move about a room. It would need, he suggested, some way to model the space in the room and it’s location within that space. This gave me a flash of insight. Our brains have those sort of models and modules. What if meditative training silenced some of these and sped up others (as MRI’s show)? The meditator, might feel for instance, that their body “dropped away” and they were all space! For two decades I had driven myself to mystical frenzy on Huxley’s conviction that all spiritual traditions were the greatest evidence for one universal cosmic reality behind all appearances, but the simplest explanation for common experience (using Occam’s razor) was that we all had the same brains! I hung up my mystic’s robes…

Now understandably, none of this is conclusive. There may very well be some transcendent yet immanent reality which aspirants have tapped into, and I may be simply stuck in scientism naturalistic reductionism. But which is the more likely answer given our common experience, and which would survive Occam’s Razor? A Cosmic Ground of Being which a few have access to is just like the idea of a Creator God - an act of complex myth-making and a “multiplying of conceptual entities” that tries too hard. It is a story told to comfort rather than explain. I agree with the sophisticated view that “it’s stories all the way down” – that meaning comes before truth, but I do not consider all stories equal. In the physical world, for example, some stories “bite back” more than others. A story that we can fly by merely thinking it would not last for very long – no would we. In the same way, cultural stories must speak to other cultural members and help them survive in order to carry on. And many myths which once did this successfully no longer do so in the modern world.

I am going to offer the uncomfortable opinion that people like Joseph Campbell who spend too much time contemplating “the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos” are nursing the hole in their hearts remaining after religion. Their fixation is more than a detached appreciation for the “Divine Aesthetic” present in all times and places. It is a secret (or open) yearning for the Glory, a divine rapture that will set all things right. I have been there and felt that yearning! But going down this Glory Hole is a “dangerous and unpredictable adventure” which has taken humanity to Hell and back many times before. And it no longer interests me. I have settled instead on simply “being” a Human who uses his energy to help others instead of gazing upon his own navel. I believe that pursuing these divine fantasies is ultimately divisive and only drives us away from the real tasks at hand. Admittedly there is more mystery out there than is dreamed of in all our philosophies, but first let us contemplate something more immediate and dangerous - the human capacity to make stories come alive and bite us!

P.S. If a swami could levitate in front of me, I would change my whole tune.

David wrote: "As you say, we are all “entitled to hope”, but let me offer a more contrarian, heretical, and skeptical interpretation of Joseph Campbell’s alleged “Power of Myth” for those who may share my cynici..."

I think you may have missed my point. Cynicism supposes belief. I have neither. It's just a book.

David wrote: "As you say, we are all “entitled to hope”, but let me offer a more contrarian, heretical, and skeptical interpretation of Joseph Campbell’s alleged “Power of Myth” for those who may share my cynici..."

David - I really enjoyed your post and was fascinated by your path. There are many ways there, but they all seem unique and worth sharing and thinking about. (You might check out Michael Pollans How to Change Your Mind:. He brings in some of what you explored, including a lot of Huxley. Of course his philosophy is light, but the information is thought provoking.)

Thanks Daniel, that means a lot. The book you mentioned looks very interesting. I remember reading Huxley's Doors of Perception and his experiments with mescalin. LSD was wonderful trip but didn't give me any divine revelations to bring back to my tribe like heroes are supposed to do. Where has your "hero's journey" led you?

David wrote: "Thanks Daniel, that means a lot. The book you mentioned looks very interesting. I remember reading Huxley's Doors of Perception and his experiments with mescalin. LSD was wonderful trip but didn't ..."

Same place, David. I just got there through a geological perspective. Time and repetition undermine a lot of glorious ideas.

Wow, you're right. There are may ways.

David wrote: "Wow, you're right. There are may ways."

It occurs to me reading this exchange that there might be a difference between seekers and discoverers (no priority between the two, I just can’t think of another word). The first is looking for answers; the other is tripping over ideas. Answers don’t come easily; ideas are a dime a dozen. Makes for quite a different experience I think.

Beautiful. Thanks.

David wrote: "Beautiful. Thanks."

Thanks back.

Ahhhh. Thanks to all for reminding me why I make room in my life for Goodreads.

[Aside: Not certain, but I think Zabars is very much still there. Don't sit shiva unless you've attended the burial.]

Margaret wrote: "Ahhhh. Thanks to all for reminding me why I make room in my life for Goodreads.

[Aside: Not certain, but I think Zabars is very much still there. Don't sit shiva unless you've attended the burial.]"

Good point Margaret. It was coarse of me not to remember. And I’m so happy that someone actually reads the 🧵

BlackOxford wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Ahhhh. Thanks to all for reminding me why I make room in my life for Goodreads.

[Aside: Not certain, but I think Zabars is very much still there. Don't sit shiva unless you've at..."

😉

Please show proof, Margaret, that Zabars is still there. I would like to go. I await your reply.

david wrote: "Please show proof, Margaret, that Zabars is still there. I would like to go. I await your reply."

Hi David. It's been a few years since I've been to the Upper West Side (I live in NJ now), but I decided to check for you. I called Zabar's and spoke to a guy who's worked there for 40 something years. He insisted they were open until 7:30 tonight (it's 5:32 now), all next week, etc. No, they are still there (Broadway and W. 80th) and plan to stay in business at that location for another ninety something years. So when you do go there (hurry over if you live nearby--if you have to travel, just know they're open 7 days a week), have a Nova and cream cheese on a poppy bagel with red onion and enjoy.

Why thank you, Margaret. I was told it closed many years ago, perhaps ten. It must have been misinformation. I think I will have sturgeon, though. No cream cheese, no bagels. Damn. Getting older really stinks. Thank you, dear.

david wrote: "Why thank you, Margaret. I was told it closed many years ago, perhaps ten. It must have been misinformation. I think I will have sturgeon, though. No cream cheese, no bagels. Damn. Getting older re..."

Hope you can get there. To think you could have had sturgeon these past ten years. Well, no use looking back; go enjoy. As for getting older, it just might be better than dying young. I'll take it.

Kayn-a-hoorah. Once you have had sturgeon you cannot go back to nova. It is in the Talmud. I must obey the law. And to think I have been hanging around the lower east side for my smoked products, besides fish. Well, this is 'major breaking news.' Thank you Margaret and btw, you look incredibly similar to Virginia Woolf.

david wrote: "Kayn-a-hoorah. Once you have had sturgeon you cannot go back to nova. It is in the Talmud. I must obey the law. And to think I have been hanging around the lower east side for my smoked products, b..."

Talmud? I don't think so. LES good too. As for looking like Woolf, that photo looks exactly like Woolf. Me, not so much.

Margaret wrote: "david wrote: "Kayn-a-hoorah. Once you have had sturgeon you cannot go back to nova. It is in the Talmud. I must obey the law. And to think I have been hanging around the lower east side for my smok..."

Well thanks goodness we have that settled. Even if it was a welcome distraction from the daily schmutz. By the way did I tell you my grandmother’s name was Margaret? (How’s that for a puckup line? Better than this ‘you look like Virginia Woolf’ business, huh?).

I cannot compete with English chaps. Blackie, you are smooth.

And that's why I'm here. To ocassionally take our eyes off the 'serious' stuff of the day.

Blackie. You still have much to learn. If you think bringing up your mother, any aspect of her, to different woman you are just meeting, will ingratiate her to you, well obviously Oxford was not teaching all the necessary courses.

At 'Farleigh Ridiculous University' in Rutherford, we took our classes outside. I guess you could call it Sociology 101, but I usually wandered over to Zabars. I paid the teacher off in taiglach.

Oh, btw, Blackie, as we both know, all is schmutz. Different kinds of it, but still schmutz.

david wrote: "Oh, btw, Blackie, as we both know, all is schmutz. Different kinds of it, but still schmutz."

A technical term certainly. Schumtz = Entropy. Where we’ree All headed. And also I admit to my inferior cocktail chat. Drug up badly.

Blackie, I have no idea to where we are all headed. The real question is, what are we doing here, and why? I have no answers. I even have less questions. Kind of liberating.

david wrote: "Blackie, I have no idea to where we are all headed. The real question is, what are we doing here, and why? I have no answers. I even have less questions. Kind of liberating."

Obvious - to constantly clean up. I’m entirely serious. It was obviously part of the divine plan. “You two.” It said, “Get down and get this mess sorted out.” That’s why there’s dust and crap on your shoes. Like I said - obvious.

Alright. Geraldine, no crumpets today. A scone. Willie, please pass the jam. Miss Poppinstock, Earl Grey will be fine. Chilly today, Katherine. Still invested in a stroll through the Cotswolds?

Splendid review, Michael!

Paula wrote: "Splendid review, Michael!"

Thanks, Paula.

A wonderful review Michael. You remind me that this is likely a good book to go back to. I was probably reading it about the same time that you were. Besides being a great inspiration to me in terms of worldview, “The Hero with . . .” was to serve a a great aid to me when I finally decided to go to university. I borrowed much from Campbell in terms of both form and symbol for analytical purposes in my various literature classes. Applying Campbell’s templates to works of literature, from Sophocles through Sir Gawain and on to Theodore Dreiser, made me appear to be brilliant and diligent, neither of which were the case. Maybe rereading this will put some punch back into my reviewing skills.

RK-ïsme wrote: "A wonderful review Michael. You remind me that this is likely a good book to go back to. I was probably reading it about the same time that you were. Besides being a great inspiration to me in term..."

He had a similar effect on me. The stories start to permeate the unconscious I think. You can’t un-assimilate them so they invade your interpretations of everything. Eventually it’s impossible to tell whether it’s Campbell you’re channeling or the Collective Unconscious. Be careful re-reading; you may overload the circuits!

I’ve had new circuit breakers installed recently. I should be safe.

and to think the popular renown of this book is that some moviemaker read it and said it helped form his science-fantasy flick... but tell me: does it convince in contemporary multicultural religious atheistic scientific philosophical worlds? should it be read or read about...

the gift wrote: "and to think the popular renown of this book is that some moviemaker read it and said it helped form his science-fantasy flick... but tell me: does it convince in contemporary multicultural religio..."

You’ll have to read it to find out. One of those paradoxical niceties of life!

BlackOxford wrote: "Paula wrote: "Splendid review, Michael!"

Thanks, Paula."

You are one of my heroes! I love what you write...