Trin’s review of Nineteen Seventy Four > Likes and Comments

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message 1: by Siria (new)

Siria Excellent rant, Trin :D


message 2: by Julie (new)

Julie Yes, EXCELLENT rant. I share your contempt, believe me. Now perhaps you ought to write your own thriller? (I'm serious, you know.)


message 3: by jo (new)

jo more girls and young women die every day on the page of a thriller than at the hands of real-life attackers.

okay, i'm now thinking: the congo, afghanistan, somalia, and don't feel so sure. i'm tempted to change to "more girls and young women die every day on the page of a thriller than at the hands of real-life rapist/mass murderers," which would be OBVIOUSLY true, but i think the original version works even if we take war and genocidal fury into account. yeah. i am fucking tired of it, too, and won't read books with a string of female victims whose bodies are described in lurid detail EVER AGAIN. rock on, trin.


message 4: by Grey853 (new)

Grey853 Great rant! Well said and I totally agree. I don't read many thrillers for all the reasons you name.


message 5: by Jason (new)

Jason Really? Complaining about female characters? How pedestrian.


message 6: by Trin (new)

Trin Jason wrote: "Really? Complaining about female characters? How pedestrian."

Ooh, see, this is how I know that any discussion with you would be such a stunning and worthwhile endeavor: right off the bat, my argument is decisively dismissed as pedestrian! After that, of course, nothing more needs to be said, or elaborated upon. Thank you, your thorough, seven-word response has really shaken my worldview.


message 7: by Siria (new)

Siria Trin, perhaps our lady brains just can't appreciate the stunning insights proffered by Jason's formulaic hipster misogyny unique insights into literature and the human condition?

Though I have found his blog, and it is hilarious.


message 8: by Jason (new)

Jason Trin wrote: "Jason wrote: "Really? Complaining about female characters? How pedestrian."

Ooh, see, this is how I know that any discussion with you would be such a stunning and worthwhile endeavor: right off ..."


I do apologize for coming across as dismissive, but I find it frustrating when criticism takes such an unnecessary form. Complaining that a novel was devoid of effective female characters amounts to a desire for all novels to have at least one effective female character which would turn these novels into different forms of status-quo maintaining drivel that you rail against in the second half of your review. Understandably, you may want to only read novels containing such female characters but that is entirely different from complaining that a novel was lacking one. In any case, you drew ire for a broader issue I have with reviews focusing on whether or not characters are likeable, strong, have agency, are assholes, etc. that I find middling and an easy out.


message 9: by Jason (new)

Jason Siria wrote: "Trin, perhaps our lady brains just can't appreciate the stunning insights proffered by Jason's formulaic hipster misogyny unique insights into literature and the human condition?

Though I have fou..."


First of all, most people hope they're are not formulaic but they unfortunately are. I'm no different though I am curious as to how hipsterism became embroiled with misogyny. Frankly I was hoping to have brought an archaic 19th century view of women to modern hipster ideology but I guess I'm not the first to have done so. In another realm I am nothing but formulaic. Also, thanks for putting forth the effort of finding my blog. I assure you that I have absolutely no intention of returning the favor but comments are always welcome from adoring fans.


message 10: by Siria (new)

Siria Because, Jason, in both your comments here and in your blog posts, you're displaying terribly stereotypical behaviour. I mean come on:

Complaining that a novel was devoid of effective female characters amounts to a desire for all novels to have at least one effective female character which would turn these novels into different forms of status-quo maintaining drivel that you rail against in the second half of your review.

Seriously? Pointing out a dearth of female representation—or of a representation of the voices of queer people, or PoC, or people with disabilities—is not a demand that all novels ever feature ratios of characters which match a particular society in exact proportion to its demographic make-up. You're setting up an intellectual straw-man here. What Trin is pointing out—if I can presume to speak for her for a moment—is that an extremely large percentage of books published are from a male point of view, take male privilege for granted and do not examine it, and use female characters merely as tools by which to allow a male character to grow. Male narratives are privileged over female narratives. (As white narratives are over non-white narratives, as disability is presented as 'tragic', as people who do not fit into the gender binary are erased, etc.)

I don't think it's an outrageous statement to say that books tend to be better when they attempt to thoughtfully engage with the society in which they were created, and when their authors make some attempt to unpack the (un)conscious assumptions which they bring to their work. Asking people to stop replicating misogynist, sexist tropes isn't asking for some bland new status quo (nor is it asking people to stop writing about racism or sexism, which is a whole different kettle of fish)—it's asking for literature which better reflects the world.

Also, thanks for putting forth the effort of finding my blog.

I googled your username, your last.fm profile is in the first page of results, and that links directly to your blog. Effort? Hardly. Though I will admit to contracting a slight case of eyestrain from rolling my eyes at your post about the audacity—the nerve!—of fat women wearing yoga pants. How dare they offend your aesthetic principles, etc.

So yeah, you got me to read your blog. Yeah, you provoked a reaction from me. Now what? What do you have that goes beyond that?


message 11: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth  Siria wrote: "Because, Jason, in both your comments here and in your blog posts, you're displaying terribly stereotypical behaviour. I mean come on:

Complaining that a novel was devoid of effective female chara..."


And this is why there is a special place in my heart for you, Siria.


message 12: by Jason (new)

Jason Siria wrote: "Because, Jason, in both your comments here and in your blog posts, you're displaying terribly stereotypical behaviour. I mean come on:

Complaining that a novel was devoid of effective female chara..."


Let me first say that I wasn't being sarcastic about being stereotypical. You made a good point and I was acknowledging it. Now with respect to your other points I agree that literature that hopes to dispel certain value judgements that have persisted historically has merit. My point was simply that not all literature needs to satisfy that role and the condemnation of literature for not satisfying the role is redundant. There is merit in overtly misogynistic literature just as there is merit in literature that adopts a western focus or a white focus. This merit is predicated on the idea that some people are simply misogynistic and the expression on that belief through art is as valid as it is for those that pine for equality. Whether one is right or wrong is, in the case of art, irrelevant. As someone who absorbs ideas and culture I want both kinds of literature, close and open minded, to persist so that I can form my own opinions. I do not therefore believe that being one or the other is grounds for criticism because such criticism implies a desire for the object to be eradicated.

I know I can come across as snide and short-sighted by I can assure you that I value your views and relish these types of conversions.


message 13: by Mekka (new)

Mekka hilarious haha


message 14: by Mekka (new)

Mekka hilarious haha


message 15: by Lisa (new)

Lisa David Peace wrote 1974 in 1999 it's not like it's a new book nor is it a standalone novel It's part of a grim quartet and I bloody love them.


message 16: by Helen (new)

Helen Good rant.


message 17: by Helen (new)

Helen Good rant.


message 18: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca "Complaining that a novel was devoid of effective female characters amounts to a desire for all novels to have at least one effective female character which would turn these novels into different forms of status-quo maintaining drivel that you rail against in the second half of your review."

No, it doesn't amount to that at all.


message 19: by Nate (new)

Nate Murphy I was so so pleased to read your thoughts on this subject. This whole "genre" (the word gives this time of book/tv show/film a credibility they don't deserve) of......take women and young children, one after the other subject them all to unspeakable violent sexualized torture, linger over the details while semi maintaining the pretense that it is disapproved of, but actually simply being Torture Porn (of women and children). As you said, there is just so much of this garbage everywhere. That repellent US tv show Criminal Minds (and its various offshoots) is a prime exponent. The actor, the very good actor, Mandy Patinkin, who was one of the original cast, hated the show so much, for this Torture Porn reason, that he talked very openly about how disgusting it was...till he was able to get off the show. But it is hugely popular and people write lovingly about it on the Netflix viewers' reviews section. I think that (if there are this people around) in 300 years, people will look back on society at this time and this sprall of incredibly popular torture porn, and point to it as a diagnostic indicator of terrible problems in our society. That..and the fact that, in the US, we just keep allowing schools full of children to be shot up, and don't do A THING about it.


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