Poll
Poll added by: Robert
Comments Showing 1-50 of 89 (89 new)
Craig wrote: "You need to unhide the poll results. None of the choices given adequately describe the Gospel."Sorry, I plan to unhide them after a period of time.
One of the choices is a direct paraphrase of the declared Gospel in the Bible.
I think Mr. Craig is right. None of the choices given adequately describe the Gospel.
What does the "declared Gospel" mean? Like Acts 2, 1 Corinthians 15 (he died and was raised according to the scriptures, etc)?
Corintians 15:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”It doesn’t say anything about substitutery sacrifice, it does talk about atonement, when means to make good, not make good on a debt, but just make good through the refiner’s fire. Christ showed us the path to become good, and he promised to help us. That path is faith in Jesus Christ, and overcoming weakness through repentance. Covenants and the commandments will help us find the way, and the way leads to God.
In addition Bro. Paul putting it succinctly in the Book of ( Romans1:16) " For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek" therefore the 'Gospel is the power to Salvation.'Shalom.
Emmanuel
Craig wrote: "Except not all Christians agree on the "accept" part. Just ask a 5 point Calvinist! Lol"That's true. Funny thing is, while we are on earth debating what the word accept or receive Christ means, God only has one definition and in the end it is His definition that will make the cut. blessings!
Emmanuel wrote: "In addition Bro. Paul putting it succinctly in the Book of ( Romans1:16) " For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the J..."Hi Bro! I agree with you. But, keep in mind that is just a tiny bit of the gospel. I find that when people talk about the gospel they tend to reduce it to some bible verses but do not talk about the real reason behind it all, which is the heart of the matter. The verses are like ingredients that make up a cake. But, like the spirit of God taught me, we cannot loose sight of the designs that God had in mind when He put forward His plan of salvation.
THE GOOD NEWS is the intimacy we have with God, the interactions, the tangible personal relationship we have with Him, the union we have with Him through the abiding process. These things are not meant to be ideas in our minds or assumptions in our lives. They must be real in our lives.
If we ever allow the Holy Spirit of God to teach us what eternal life means, we would be shock and we would stop being Christians in our head only. eternal life is: KNOWING GOD, pure and simple. THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS. That is the 'riches' Paul talked about in the book of Ephesians. We get there when God turns our salvation upside down and we realize it is no longer about us or about one or few verses in the Bible, but, about HIS PLAN and HIS PURPOSE alone. That is why we receive the deposit of the Holy Spirit, so that He can continue the good work God has started in us. If the Holy Spirit is not having His way, we are not surrendered to Him and we are not abiding, that's where disagreements on what the TRUE GOSPEL comes into play.
Like God taught me, allowing the Spirit of God to work in us, is also part of what true faith is and it is part of our belief systems and it is PURE GRACE AT WORK in us.
Of course none of what I said above means anything if the verse 'IT IS NOT I WHO LIVES BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME' does not become a reality in each of our lives....
Not only Christ becomes so real to us as He lives His life through us, but, we also find it a bitter sweet inward reality when we find out that the only path to God is through Christ. Saying this and living it out are two different realities and can be quite offensive to so many, yet, nonetheless TRUE.
Shalom bro!
Absolutely correct. Thank you for the details explanation.Be blessed my Brother.
Shalom
Emmanuel
Vishal wrote: "I think Mr. Craig is right. None of the choices given adequately describe the Gospel."One is a direct paraphrase of clearly quoted Scripture.
Aeisele wrote: "What does the "declared Gospel" mean? Like Acts 2, 1 Corinthians 15 (he died and was raised according to the scriptures, etc)?"You got it... 15:1... I DECLARED unto you. It is the same Gospel that every post-resurrection evangelist in the Bible preached to the UNSAVED.
Craig wrote: "In your opinion certainly. If the Bible clearly defined what the gospel means in a single verse there would be no reason for discussion. But of course it doesnt ..."My response: NOT my opinion... THE Gospel is DECLARED and succinctly outlined in two verses... it is the SAME message that is preached by EVERY post-resurrection evangelist.
If the Gospel is NOT CLEARLY defined, how could the Holy Spirit call A CURSE upon preachers of FALSE gospels?
Michael wrote: "It doesn’t say anything about substitutery sacrifice..."My response: It SURE DOES... and you quoted it.
"how that Christ died for our sins"
Jesus did NOT DIE for HIS SINS (He had none). Jesus is the Lamb of God. The Sacrificial Lamb was a substitute for those He died for.
I'm pretty confused as to the point of this exercise in this group. Is this not a discussion group? Why do you have a rhetorical question? Are you trying to test someone? This is very confusing.
Aeisele wrote: "I'm pretty confused as to the point of this exercise in this group. Is this not a discussion group? Why do you have a rhetorical question? Are you trying to test someone? This is very confusing."First, this is a "poll"... not technically a discussion.
Second, according to Romans 1:16, the Gospel is God's power unto salvation.
Third, if "Christians" don't know the Gospel, how can we lead anyone to salvation?
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For me, my prayer is that this will be educational. I pray that some who do not know what the Gospel message is... will come to do so.
Robert wrote: "For me, my prayer is that this will be educational "What is "this"? The poll? The group?
Since we've already gotten controversial, why don't I propose the question, what gives any of us authority to define what the gospel is. I mean it was based of apostles and prophets with Christ being the chief corner stone, and Hebrews 5:4 is pretty clear how one recieves authority, and that was the same way Aaron did, from Moses. When means for us to define what the gospel is or what the bible says, we would have had to be ordained by a prophet.
Aeisele wrote: "Robert wrote: "For me, my prayer is that this will be educational "What is "this"? The poll? The group?"
My response: "This" is what you are responding to. A poll that is part of the group.
Michael wrote: "Since we've already gotten controversial, why don't I propose the question, what gives any of us authority to define what the gospel is. I mean it was based of apostles and prophets with Christ bei..."My response: If you do not KNOW what the TRUE Gospel is... it might be time for concern...
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Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED .
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED .
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God clearly expects us to KNOW what the Gospel is.
My response: "This" is what you are responding to. A poll that is part of..."So, in a discussion group, I would typically expect a degree of discussion, not one person being a gate keeper to some type of interpretation. Like, for instance, if you said, "let's discuss how to understand 'substitutionary'," and then offered an interpretation, that would be great.
Then we could discuss Anselm's view vs. Girard's, or even if we got more in technical discussions of Isaiah's Servant Songs vs. sacrifice in Leviticus, or something along those lines.
The way this has been presented is like you're trying to tell us what to believe. I hope that's not your intention. I think most of the people here are avid readers of theology and philosophy, and so that's what we're in this group to discuss.
Aeisele wrote: "My response: "This" is what you are responding to. A poll that is part of..."So, in a discussion group, I would typically expect a degree of discussion, not one person being a gate keeper to some..."
My response: Discuss away... what do you think the Bible says IS THE Gospel?
For me, I do not "discuss" that which God has "DECLARED".
Robert wrote: "Aeisele wrote: "My response: "This" is what you are responding to. A poll that is part of..."So, in a discussion group, I would typically expect a degree of discussion, not one person being a gat..."
God declared to his apostles and prophets. We read what the bible declares, and can pray as in James 1:5, but obviously there wouldn't be so many different Christian denominations if what the gospel was, was so clearly declared. Christ said he taught in parables, so that those with ears to hear would. It it very pretentious of you to say you have no need to discuss it, especially after making a poll that didn't have any right or complete answers. This is precisely why a paid ministry is a bad idea, because it produces people who think they are professional Christians.
Michael wrote: "but obviously there wouldn't be so many different Christian denominations if what the gospel was, was so clearly declared..."My response: If the Gospel is NOT CLEAR, why did 100% of the post-resurrection evangelists preach the SAME message?
Why does God call a CURSE upon those who preach OTHER gospels?
God fully expects us to KNOW and PREACH the TRUE Gospel... that is CLEARLY DECLARED...
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Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED .
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED .
If the Gospel as it is outlined in 1 Corinthians 15 is simply, that Christ came, and died for us, and was resurrected the 3rd day, then anyone who says that he came for any other reason, or that he was not resurrected, then that is a different gospels. There are a lot of Christian churches that preach that Christ is a spirit, that denies that he took his body back up the third day, that is considered a different gospel. So if you teach that Christ does not have a body right now, then Galatians 1 applies to you.
This is exactly what I believe... if you disagree... it is YOU that Galatians 1:8-9 applies to... NOT ME...____________
THE DECLARED GOSPEL
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I DECLARE unto you the GOSPEL which I preached unto you...
2 By which also ye are saved...
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
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WHAT HAPPENS TO PREACHERS OF OTHER gospels
Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED .
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED .
I'm not sure how you missed the question. Does Jesus Christ right now have a resurrected body?
Michael wrote: "I'm not sure how you missed the question. Does Jesus Christ right now have a resurrected body?"My response: I QUOTED the Bible... as I SAID before... this is exactly what I believe.
1 Corinthians 15:4 - "And that he was buried , and that HE ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY according to the scriptures:"
If you believe that God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all one being, and the Holy Spirit is everywhere, then you could not also believe that Christ still has his resurrected body, otherwise he could not be everywhere.
Michael wrote: "If you believe that God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all one being, and the Holy Spirit is everywhere, then you could not also believe that Christ still has his resurrected body, otherwise he co..."My response: I believe EXACTLY what the Bible says...
John 20:27 - "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."
You should try believing what the Bible says...
Luke 24:39 - "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a
spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have
."It is a very good thing to BELIEVE GOD!
Every verse must be placed in the context of the entire Bible. Many people argue and confuse single verses because they ignorantly ignore other applicable data.
Well you are fine then. I was under the impression that Evangelicals believed that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were all the same. I'm sorry for the false accusation.
Not the same. One God in 3 persons. Fully in agreement. But the Son is not the Father, the Spirit is not the son. Etc. but one God. Confused yet? Wouldn't be much of a self-supporting relational deity if we fully understood Him.
Rod wrote: "Every verse must be placed in the context of the entire Bible. Many people argue and confuse single verses because they ignorantly ignore other applicable data."My response: True, but many also ignore single verses because they WANT their preconceived theories and opinions to be true... and those CLEAR verses show that the desired doctrine is NOT true.
Michael wrote: "Well you are fine then. I was under the impression that Evangelicals believed that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were all the same. I'm sorry for the false accusation."Evangelicals believe in the Trinity, as taught in the Bible.
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God says...
* There is ONLY ONE GOD - Deuteronomy 6:4
* God the Father IS this ONE GOD - Jude 1:1
* Jesus IS this ONE GOD - John 1:1 and John 20:28
* The Holy Spirit IS this ONE GOD - Acts 5:3-4
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Deu 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father..."
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
Acts 5:3-4
3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...
4] ...thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
So how does Christ have his resurrected body, and yet he is also the Holy Spirit that doesn't have a Body.When he said not my will but the Father's be done.
When he said there is none that are perfect but God.
When he was baptized when God said this in my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.
When Stephen saw Christ standing on the right hand of God.
When Christ said, Father why hast thou forsaken me
Psalms 110:1 “(A Psalm of David.) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”
Corinthians 15:24-26(23-28) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
This line from the Athanasian creed explains it well:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
Christ is one in purpose with the Father, but that doesn't not mean that their personalities are blended. We only have one way to God and that is Christ, but saying "one way" is not the same as saying that there is only one eternal being with glory.
The whole purpose of us being here on earth depends on the fact that the Father gave glory to the Son, and that he desires us to join in his great work and promised us glory.
John 17: 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
You should know very well that the Bible was not written in english, and where it said God or lord there are different Hebrew, Aramaic, latin or greek words for it. Adonai, Jehova and Elohim are not all the same. Jesus is Jehova, and most places where it says Adonai. Elohim is usually referring to Heavenly Father. It is very confusing, I understand that. But we can't go around saying there's nothing to discuss when obviously there is.
Michael wrote: "So how does Christ have his resurrected body, and yet he is also the Holy Spirit that doesn't have a Body.When he said not my will but the Father's be done.
When he said there is none that are per..."
The TRINITY!
So where from ancient prophets in the bible does it use that word? Or is there a modern day prophet that taught that?
Michael wrote: "So where from ancient prophets in the bible does it use that word? Or is there a modern day prophet that taught that?"Where do they use the word dinosaur? Are you saying dinosaurs did not exist... because that 1800's word was not in 1600's print Bibles?
The word "TRINITY" is not in the Bible largely because that word was NOT invented when older English translations were written.
But the CONCEPT is CLEAR in the Bible.
The bible is not a geological or ecological history book, its a book written by prophets of God. Knowledge of dinosaurs is not important in order to pray, but having some idea of who you are praying to does. Christ taught us how to pray, like him we Pray to Heavenly Father, otherwise he would have just said, "When I'm gone later if you want to talk, refer to me as Father." For someone who has made theology your life, you really don't take it very seriously. It's really sad.
Michael wrote: "For someone who has made theology your life, you really don't take it very seriously. It's really sad. ..."
What is really sad is that you REJECT what the Bible VERY CLEARLY teaches.
So you LIMIT your god to the confines of YOUR mind.
God says...* There is ONLY ONE GOD - Deuteronomy 6:4
* God the Father IS this ONE GOD - Jude 1:1
* Jesus IS this ONE GOD - John 1:1 and John 20:28
* The Holy Spirit IS this ONE GOD - Acts 5:3-4
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Deu 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord :"
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father ..."
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
Acts 5:3-4
3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...
4] ...thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God .
If your just going to keep repeating yourself, not even reading anything I wrote I have nothing else to say. You don't have ears to hear or eyes to see. Christ was betrayed in the house of his friends. That was not a prophecy about Judas, it was a prophecy about people like you, that should know better but love the praises of man more than the praises of God. If I were going to gamble my salvation, I wouldn't do it on a word not in the bible, told to me by a church created by men.
Thank you for the option of ticking the fact that it's just religious superstition.Although I would have liked the chance to point out that it looks very much like sectarian political propaganda that doesn't really have anything to do with the mythological Jewish deity Yahweh - or anyone else's version of what "God" may be if God were to actually exist.
Michael wrote: "If your just going to keep repeating yourself, not even reading anything I wrote I have nothing else to say. You don't have ears to hear or eyes to see. Christ was betrayed in the house of his frie..."My response: Good. So far you have not offered anything worth reading. REJECTING the Word of God is NOT wisdom!
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God says...
* There is ONLY ONE GOD - Deuteronomy 6:4
* God the Father IS this ONE GOD - Jude 1:1
* Jesus IS this ONE GOD - John 1:1 and John 20:28
* The Holy Spirit IS this ONE GOD - Acts 5:3-4
____
Deu 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord :"
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father ..."
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
Acts 5:3-4
3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost...
4] ...thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God .
I must say that I am happy to see about 32% of poll respondents know the correct answer. Other similar polls that I have seen show about 16%.
So Robert knew the "correct" answer.Smacks of a whole lot of egotistical pride and arrogance to me.
I think Robert needs to get a little closer to Jesus.
Or the Buddha.
Or anyone but himself.
Stuart wrote: "So Robert knew the "correct" answer.Smacks of a whole lot of egotistical pride and arrogance to me.
I think Robert needs to get a little closer to Jesus.
Or the Buddha.
Or anyone but himself."
My response: NOPE! All that is required is BELIEVING THE BIBLE!
I am indeed VERY PROUD OF JESUS... Who's Word I quote. (NOTHING to do with me!)
First people have to understand the bible. Just shouting it louder accomplishes little.
Therefore whosoever repent of their sin and accept Christ as their savior shall have eternal life. Meaning passing from dead to life and pleasantiness that live on eternally John 3:16
Shalom
Emmanuel