Brian E’s Comments (group member since Jul 25, 2017)

Brian E’s comments from the Reading the Chunksters group.

This Group did read the three volumes of the Kristin Lavransdatter series and, even divided the reads into each of the volumes. Kristin Lavransdatter: The Bridal Wreath/The Mistress of Husaby/The Cross

This is the Schedule Thread for the 3 book read:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I get the impression from Hugh that the thoroughness of his summaries reflects how he takes notes and for him to create less detailed summaries would require a more thorough editing job and would likely take Hugh MORE rather than LESS time. I know how that is because that happens to me when writing the facts for the legal decisions I write in my work.

I've found that most of my moderators don't do more than a cursory fact summary and then either present discussion questions or just open the thread. I have been bemused by how much I have needed and used Hugh's summaries to remind me of what was covered in the section, often surprising me and catching me asking, to paraphrase Urkel, "Did I read that?" So thanks, Hugh, for the needful refreshing of my brain

I nominate Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver: 560 pages, published October 18, 2022, because I'm curious about its transposing David Copperfield to the contemporary Appalachian region of the American South. My wife loved it but had never read David Copperfield. Its getting pretty good reviews and GR ratings.

Nidhi wrote: "I had a grudge against Mrs. Lecount she was hypocritic about the issue, she could have influenced Noel Vanstone to help the sisters legally."

You're right on that, Nidhi. She bugged me too when she acted like she personally had some sympathy for the sisters' plight when she easily could have used her influence to talk Noel and probably his father Michael too, into some substantial payment. I imagined that she sat there and only uttered encouragement to Michael in his wrath-based decision making on aid to the sisters.
Her self-deception and self-aggrandizing on this issue prevented me from having any sympathy toward her when Wragge pulled some dirty tricks on her during their battles. I wanted Wragge to pull out everything he had in his bag of dirty tricks to use on her.

Some comments on the novel and ending chapters:

1. Magdalen can’t help herself. When the disinheritance first happened, she had a plan and had to go off alone and execute her plan, without her sister’s input. Similarly, at the story’s end, just when it all seems to be ending with a well-balanced result, she goes and rips up the Trust letter to disinherit herself and give control of the money to Norah and George. How magnanimous, you say? Magdalen has never been greedy or selfish – those aren’t faults of hers. But she has always had to be in control of what the result will be. She does life her way. She also likes your life done her way. I could never take being married to her.

2. But apparently Captain Kirke can. I do hope Kirke and Magdalen can be happily married. I do want Magdalen to be happy. I don’t dislike her; I just find her frustrating and not mate material. Right now, Kirke is so pw’d he would defer to Magdalen’s every whim. But that can’t last long. As life enters the mundane day to day I can’t imagine a man like Kirke, trained as a ship’s captain to control all aspects of shipboard day-to-day life, will continue that deference. When he does start to assert himself, I think that the marriage will still succeed as Magdalen will be successful in keeping Kirke thinking he’s involved in a seemingly decisive way, while ensuring everything really turns out her preferred way.

3. I thought it was interesting how certain story aspects I started off disliking ended up growing on me. First was Wragge. I found him tiresome at first and really worried about the amount of his involvement in the book. Then, I soon discovered that Wragge had grown to be the character whose presence was the highlight of the book, the person maintaining my interest in the story. What happened is that he started out as a one-dimensional character but, as he appeared more, Collins gave him more nuanced characteristics and he developed into a 3-dimensional character.

4. The second storytelling aspect that grew on me were the epistolary parts of the Between the Scenes Sections. I had looked forward to a non-epistolary novel so we could see how Collins could write with a third-party narrator and without relying on what I consider more gimmicky narrative devices. So, it bothered me when Collins started relying on such devices during the Between the Scenes sections. But by book’s end, these epistolary parts probably became my favorite parts of the novel. I do know that when I would get to that section, I would smile and look forward to reading it next. The BTS sections really propelled the story along and contained the variety of characters in switching scenes so lacking in the Seven Scenes constituting the main part of the book.

5. The ending was only moderately satisfying to me. Kirke and Magdalen seemed to end happily ever-after although, as described above, I have concerns. I don’t begrudge them some happiness. I will address several of my feelings on the ending in the next few points.

6. I was glad that Wragge reappeared and his business man schtick, while initially disappointing, became more satisfying as it became clear that he would not be totally abandoning his con-man ways as his pill business, with advertising and sales required, involves a bit of a con. I hated to see Wragge live a life without being a bit of a con man . It would be a waste of his God-given skills.

7. I did miss Wragge having one more scene with Lecount. I imagined one though, in a town where Wragge is pushing his pills and Lecount has a friend/relative to be visiting from the Continent. The two would be cordial and leave their face to face with both still ignorant of the estate inheritance outcome but Lecount smugly confident she had won. Their dialogue would be superficially cordial, exhibiting behind the words restraint and a smidgen of grudging respect previously unshown.

8. It was nice that Norah and George were able to get married. They both seem like nice respectful people who will make themselves and others happy. I’d show more enthusiasm, but I never developed that much enthusiasm for either character as I never got to know them that well. Unlike what he did with Wragge, Collins never developed either character beyond a one-dimensional one. If he had made the Norah/George relationship the ending of a more detailed Norah focused side story, they would have become three-dimensional characters and recipients of the readers empathy. I sound like a broken record but, really, the story would have been much better if Collins had added a more significant Norah-focused story thread.

Linda wrote: ".I’ll remember where my thoughts were at the end of week 11 in order to still comment."

I plan to finish early too but really just to make sure I finish the book in this calendar year so I can count all of No Name;s pages as pages read this year. When I do that with other reads with weekly discussion threads, I skip commenting until the end to make sure I don't accidently give spoilers. In this read, I had originally planned on just not commenting on Week 11 and waiting until Week 12 and comment on them all.

However, now that I've experienced Hugh's extensive chapter reviews, my usual cautious approach to accidental spoilers will likely not be necessary. I can check Hugh's summaries to make sure that what I'm revealing actually did occur in one of that section's chapters. So, now, I too may comment in Week 11 even if I am already far into Week 12's reading.

Linda, how much does Magdalen know of George's attachment to Norah? It was my assumption that she was unaware that it had developed as far as it has and so would not necessarily be thinking money going to George would also end up on Norah's hands. This lack of knowledge of the extent of the relationship could affect her choice of actions.

Hugh wrote: "I struggled a little to work out how Loscombe became so willing to help Magdalen when he was Noel's lawyer, ."

I did too, but it was a very small struggle. With Pendril so anti-Magdalen, she was up against it on two prongs - from Lecount and from Pendril. With Wragge out of the picture, Magdalen needs some other support to make it something close to a fair fight. She needs Loscombe so I decided to accept and not question why he so readily adapted to acting on her behalf.

Some comments:

1) When I mentioned last section that I didn't expect Noel to last to the end, I didn't realize that Collins would so quickly act on my prediction. That was really quick work for the writer of a 700+ page novel with a single storyline.

2) After not getting along at all at first, Wragge and I have since become close and I did miss his presence during this section. Not so, Mrs. Wragge, so I guess it's almost a wash. However, I do realize the plot is better off developing at this point without him. Also, I still presume that the savvy Collins realizes his readers are eagerly awaiting a concluding round in the Wragge/Lecount match. I hope he doesn't disappoint.

3) Lecount's explanation for her proposed change in Noel's will beneficiary was so convoluted it gave me a headache. It reminded me of Wallace Shawn deciding which glass of wine has the poison in it in the Princess Bride. I may have gotten lost, but I don't think her ultimate advisory conclusion served her stated purpose much better than just giving it to George directly. It also gives the Admiral a chance to just keep it all anyway- I don't see why he doesn't have that right. That's probably because behind Lecount's advise was her favoritism to the Admiral over George. She certainly maneuvered Noel to act more in her interests rather than Noel's interest as, by this time, she has more motive and desire for revenge against Magdalen and Wragge than Noel does, or did.

4) I hope this story ends with Magdalen returning to an acting career as she certainly takes every opportunity to perform as an actress in her off-stage real life. She must have a need to act to always craft her plans so as to require such acting ability. If I'm not mistaken, this upcoming role as a maid will be her third real life acting role.

5) I did empathize with Magdalen more in this section and I hope my empathy for her continues in the growth mode. As I have said, this book is more enjoyable when you can root for Magdalen and just be a bit frustrated when she gets into her own way as she is wont to do. I am trying to get there but I won't force it.

6) The will-changing and Magdalen's plans seem to indicate that the resolution may include Linda's prediction of George and Norah becoming a wealthy married couple.

We get very little of Magdalen during this section, especially the end half. While my sympathy for her has waned, I still can't ever foresee a time that I will sympathize with Lecount. She was, and is, too wrapped up in Noel and his father's decision making process to be given a pass for that father/son team's attitude and decision-making toward the sisters and to society as a whole..

Wile he makes cruel decisions, I do give Noel kudos for being consistent. After contributing to his own demise by empowering Wragge with a personal vendetta against him by low-balling the Captain, when faced with a second chance to get in Lecount's good graces, Noel again makes a low-ball initial offer, a $1,000 bequest. Noel's spitting out the low-ball $1000 figure had me chuckling. The only reason this low-ball offer didn't put a kabosh on getting Lecount back on his side was because of Lecount only wanting $5,000 anyway due to her personal 'high moral standard' battle with Magdalen. Lucky Noel.

Noel does entertain me with his spineless miserly ways. I love how he is clueless that his monetary offerings are woefully short of the standard and expected amounts. I can only imagine the amount of sharp looks he gets from wait staff and servants when he gives them puny tips that he believes are sufficient and even generous. For justice' sake, I hope that Noel's miserly ways are a contributing factor to his expected final demise - I cannot foresee him living to the end of this book.

Linda, I think your prognostications may turn out, at least to Norah. As to captain Kirke, I think he is more apt to arrange an 'accident' for Frank than to bring him back to Magdalen. Captain Kirke seemed too much enamored with Magdalen and insufficiently noble to perform as you foresee him. But then again, at this point, I can only say "Captain Kirke, I hardly knew ye," so who knows?

As this novel goes on, my regard for and sympathy for Magdalen continues to decrease in about the same proportion that it increases for Wragge. Some explanation:
- Magdalen repeatedly has sabotaged her own plans, initially by letting her emotions guide her to stupid decisions, such as with Mrs. Wragge, and currently due to her complete apathy toward life in general, resulting from Frank's breaking of their engagement.
- This whole endeavor would have fallen apart if Wragge hadn't taken Magdalen's goals and made them his own. It's Wragge's actions that have attracted my sympathy and support while Magdalen's actions lead to my dismay.
- As a result, in the last chapter, I found myself hoping that Magdalen could at least successfully pull off one thing - her suicide. I found myself wishing for an odd number of boats during Magdalen's "he loves me ...he loves me not" version of Russian roulette.
- Granted, I may have only felt this way knowing full well that Magdalen would not die, so I don't know if I really wanted it to happen.
- I do know that I enjoyed this book more when I had sympathy and respect for Magdalen so I do hope the story arc shifts to let me retrieve a bit of that attitude. In the meantime, I guess I'll let any enjoyment rest on my being a member of Team Wragge.

Dianne wrote: "This was a delicious section, and definitely the best so far..."

Diane, I thought you may have dropped out as you hadn't posted since November 4th in Week 2, but then December comes and we get this from you:
Week 3 - Comment on December 1
Week 4 - Comment on December 2 (22+ hours ago)
Week 5 - Comment on December 2 (14+ hours ago)
Week 6 - Comment on December 3 (about 2 hours ago)

This activity is incredible. You seem to be engaging in a reading sprint to catch up. I for one appreciate it as it's nice to read your comments closer in time to the other comments.
However, you must be exhausted by now - remember that your eyes deserve a much needed rest at the end of today.
Wow, just Wow!

This was a fairly good section - some brief comments:

1) At this point, the Wragge/Lecount face-offs provide the major dynamic of the story, so sections with their dialogues are of high interest and make this a fairly good section of the story.
2) Wragge is proving to be more and more competent in the deceptive arts and is proving to be both a valuable asset to Magdalen and a character whose presence picks things up in the story. As Linda noted in the last section, Noel insulted him with his offer so this is now personal to him. Since Noel has the skills, he now also has the incentive to put in his best effort when utilizing these skills.
3) Captain KIrke seems to be set up to play a significant role coming up yet I still have no idea what that role will be. However, I like that uncertainty as I don't enjoy being able to foresee every plot event..

I read this section a week ago and, to make sure I knew what this section covered, I searched for some on-line chapter by chapter summaries. Unfortunately, in doing so, I accidently saw a spoiler of a future event. There is always that danger when looking up either summaries or character descriptions on-line.
So, in the future, I'm going to wait for Hugh's summaries before commenting. The summaries are appreciated, Hugh.

Some comments on a fairly good Section:

1) In my comments in the previous thread, I made several observations and question that I’m sure had Hugh restraining himself from saying, “Be patient, Collins will address them.” Collins did address some of my comments fairly early in this section.
First, I have been begging for Norah’s reentry and/or the introduction of new characters to add some needed variety to the storylines. Right away, Collins introduces new characters of seaman Kirke, his sister, cleric husband and children. I’m not sure if this will be a positive addition or not but, for now, it at least opens up new avenues for the story progression, especially with the seafaring/China connection to the Frank storyline and his Canadian connection to Magdalen’s father and his checkered romantic history. I’m especially curious about what the Canadian connection may reveal.
Second, I criticized Magdalen’s lack of an overall plan to get the money from her Uncle or cousin and having to rely solely on, even in disguise, being The Great Convincer. In this section, we learn of Magdalen’s initial plan which, unfortunately had been dependent on Uncle Michael’s survival. His death made her alter her plan on the fly, so the lack of the revised plan’s effectiveness is more understandable.
Now to Magdalen’s initial master scheme that motivated her to go out on her own apart from Norah and Mrs. Garth. As it relied on a long-game plan of deception rather than trying to use reason it had a much more possible chance of success. I wasn’t that clear about whether her plan for Wragge’s “clever speculations” to destroy her uncle’s fortune also involved shifting the fortune into Magdalen and Norah’s pockets. Whether it did or not, the plan did seem to emphasize revenge rather than recompense, which I think is/was the more achievable goal.

2) Despite my fear of Wragge’s continued presence, I have to admit he is beginning to grow on me. Collins has effectively kept him from being overly evil and he seems more of an ambiguous character now. I enjoyed his scene with Mrs. Lecount and actually look forward to more face-offs between these two.

3) I think Collins has positioned the story well entering the second half of this slightly over-long novel. Besides effectively setting up some possible plot developments, Collins does continue to entertain me with his wordsmith skills. A recent example if from the last chapter in this section as Wragge was buttering up Mrs. Lecount through interest in her husband’s scientific work: “Never had Captain Wragge burned his unadulterated incense on the flimsy altar of human vanity to better purpose than he was burning it now.”

Nidhi wrote: "Collins has epistolary form in between the scenes, even then the book is so lengthy."

I was looking forward to reading a 700+ page Collins that used a consistent narrative voice rather than the ever changing voice in his two major epistolary novels. Yet I smile when the epistolary form appears in the Between the Scenes portions - I picture Collins as an addict who can't help himself - "let me use just a little bit, please - it'll only be a few letters, I promise! Hey, what if I make them journal entries?"
I find that these short epistolary appearances work well and, as Linda observes in a future post, the Between the Scenes sections have proven to be valuable additions that improve the quality of the narration.

I do agree that Mrs. Lecount is a "strong, suspicious adversary." She kind of reminds me of my grammar school principal, Sister Thomas. As you mention there are 3 people vying for the money. Magdalen is sure outnumbered but doesn't know it because she counts the Captain on her side.

Another thing that went through my mind during the masquerade scene was "Is this all she had planned?" Magdalen seemed to have want to be alone to hatch some kind of clever plan to get Michael or Noel to give the sisters a good part of the estate. Instead, even though she should have known what Michael's previous attitude was, her plan seemed to consist of talking to Michael or Noel to voluntarily give the money up merely because it was the just and right thing to do, I thought she had some creative solution, maybe some secret family knowledge, but no, just some overwhelming faith in her ability to serve as the Great Convincer.
i'm learning that much of what I viewed as Magdalen's 'savviness." is actually only what Lou Grant would have disdainfully referred to as "spunk."

While I said in the above post that "Magdalen's continued tolerance and even guarded trust of both Wagges still astounds me," after reflection, I find that it no longer does.
I know why Magdalen continues to tolerate and guardedly trust Captain Wagge - the otherwise fairly savvy Magdalen is just an extremely poor judge of character. Look at the worthless person she has chosen as the recipient of her love and devotion - Feckless Frank. I think Collins has given her this flaw to counter her other obvious strengths and uses it to put her in dramatic situations that help add some 'sensational' events to the story.

This was a moderately interesting section in which I'm not sure that much really happens. Here's some thoughts on some of the events and developments:

1) Magdalen's masquerade was a bit silly at times. I actually thought she was craftier and a better actor than she showed while she was losing the battle of deceit with the more experienced Mrs. Lecount.

2) Getting to know the Michael Vanstone entourage was a very welcome occurrence and made some of the sillier aspects of the masquerade scene more tolerable. We got to know:
- Noel, his son and heir who managed to not only inherit all of Michael's bad traits but to develop many more bad traits on his own initiative;
- Mrs. Lescount, Michael's henchwoman who has managed to not only continue in that capacity with heir Noel but has upped her degree of influence and control with this new generation;
- Michael Viscount, previously known only through comments of the omniscient narrator, is revealed through insights into his personality from statements by both his heir and henchwoman.

3) Magdalen's continued tolerance and even guarded trust of both Wagges still astounds me, but I've come to accept it (as I have no choice if I want to try to enjoy the rest of the book). I am surprised that Wagge did show some acting knowledge but I still think Magdalen would not have known if he has any competence at all when she hired him as acting coach.
Mrs. Wagge, though sympathetic, has revealed herself as imbecilic at best. I found it incredible that Magdalen would leave Mrs Wagge to wander around London or, even worse, alone in their let house. I would not leave her alone near anything I owned - she seems like she could accidentally destroy anything.

4) Despite some of my comments, I am enjoying the book even if the this section was only of moderate quality. I think it's time for Collins to bring back Norah, at least for awhile, and through her or some other existing or new character, add another plot thread to the Magdalen/Wagge/Uncle Michael entourage primary plot thread. I still think a touch of variety would be of help to the overall pacing of this story.

I somewhat liked yet somewhat disliked the developments during this section.

1. Initially, I very much enjoyed Captain Wagge’s reentry into the storyline along with Mrs. Wagge. They seem to me the most Dickensian of any of Collins’ characters I’ve run into and getting to know the Mrs. and Captain better was fun.
2. However, by the end of this section’s reading, I was beginning to tire of both characters. Although I generally prefer Collins’ writing to Dickens’ when Dickens has these over the top, creepy but entertaining characters, he usually has sufficient other characters and plotlines to minimize the tendency of these types of characters to grow tiresome. Collins seems to use less characters and plotlines in his 800-page novels so we have 70 pages straight of the Wagge’s which resulted in them becoming tiresome. By the end of this section, I was hoping Wagge’s role would become more limited than it appears it will become.
3. Part of my being tired of Wagge may also be the result of my dislike of the plot development of Magdalen’s complete overreliance upon Wagge. From the story events so far, everyone knows she should stay completely away from Wagge. Absent that, though, I can understand her agreeing to use Wagge’s services in return for having him help look for her Uncle. Wagge, if scummy, will still serve a useful purpose for Magdalen and do a job she really had no other candidates for. But I saw no sufficient reason to hire him on his terms as an acting coach. That choice just helped Wagge get his claws into her without a compensating return. The deal for his assistance to look for the Uncle had already been made. Magdalen’s choice to hire Wagge as her ‘coach’ bothered me as a choice not consistent with Magdalen’s personality and was a gratuitous and unrealistic event that was intended to increase the melodrama. On reflection, It is silly for this plot choice to bother me as it is typical of sensation novels, and this is a sensation novel.