'Aussie Rick'’s Comments (group member since Jun 13, 2009)

'Aussie Rick'’s comments from the THE NAPOLEONIC WARS group.

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - The retreat during the winter of 1794-95:

"Jones also mourned the poor British sick.

At this time an immense number of men were sick, from the situation of the army it was impossible to keep them with their regiments, and sending them to Rhennen hospital was generally looked upon as sealing their death warrants.

As Jones continued, he noted that the sick nearly always chose to remain with their regiments, afraid to go to the hospital, where they might be plundered by their own attendants and left to die. During the retreat, the wounded and sick had to be ferried over the Wall and then dragged into the nearby houses, since angry Dutch officials refused to allow the British to establish hospitals. A boat never disembarked without leaving some dead onboard. Their bodies were removed and thrown onto the riverbank. For the British and German survivors of this retreat, their suffering and misery was far greater than that of the much-publicised French survivors of Napoleon's Grande Armee following their withdrawal from Moscow."

I wonder about that last statement.

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - Scharnhorst's thoughts on the 1794 campaign against Revolutionary France:

" ... 'The military honour (and I am afraid the spirit) of the German nation has been mortally wounded by this war.' Scharnhorst worried that 'unless other measures are taken', the ruling elites would seize this opportunity to rain 'terrible destructions on some respectable institutions', when the real cause of defeat was the arrogance and cowardice of the ruling elites. Apologising to Mechlenburh for not writing in over six weeks, Scharnhorst told his fellow artilleryman he had been so upset over 'our current situation' he was unable to compose his thoughts clearly. 'I simply cannot speak about this without losing my temper and forgetting myself.'

'Political and military inconsistences united to weaken the martial honour of the Germans and to discourage the princes', Scharnhorst told Mechlenburg. He described how the moral cowardice of allied leadership resulted in a lack of vigour and resolve within the coalition. There was no supreme war council nor a commander-in-chief with any real authority over military operations, just constant mistrust, jealousy, disagreements, and little cooperation among the senior field commanders. Competing factions led to a dissipation of military power and an unwillingness to give battle. Confronted by an uncompromising political direction and an often unconventional military leadership in France, and a people who generally supported the cause, the dynastic elites of the coalition simply gave up, even when faced with an inept and timid French generalship. Years later, when questioned about his own experience in Holland, the Duke of Wellington recalled: 'Why - I leant what one ought not to do, and that is always something'."

Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801 by Charles Edward White

Its a good short read MR9, I am sure you would enjoy it (fingers crossed).

Diana wrote: "I am rereading Robert Richardson's biography of Dominique Larrey. I bought it years ago and skimmed it (busy times). It is worth a thorough read.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3..."

I really enjoyed that book and Dominique Larrey is a person who should be better known in history.

Larrey: Surgeon to Napoleon's Imperial Guard by Robert Richardson

Indeed he did Betsy and Scharnhorst's wife was close to Trew's daughter and Scharnhorst tried to help Trew as best he could even after how he was abominably treated in regards to promotion. etc.

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - It seems Scharnhorst received high credit for his efforts in regards to the fighting and subsequent breakout from Menin in April 1794:

"The breakout of Hammerstein's command at Menin was a great moral victory for the faltering coalition, and one which 'became a feat of arms famous in the military chronicles of those years'. Wallmoden's assessment to King George was certainly correct - nothing like this had happened in over 50 years."

The Battle of Mouscron:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - I liked this quote from Scharnhorst:

"We are being set back in favour of the aristocrats, and yet we fight for them."

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - What Scharnhorst took away from his involvement in the War of the First Coalition:

"The most valuable lesson Scharnhorst learned from the Flanders campaign was the importance of a sound, formal military education. In sharp contrast to previous ideas that all an army required to fight was the proper amount of discipline, training and drill, and esprit de corps, Scharnhorst recognised that disciplined intellect was the essential ingredient to the profession of arms. As a true empiricist he never succumbed to the lofty, pre-war ideas that demanded the abolition of the standing army in favour of so-called people's militia. He had to see the worth of these new forces demonstrated in combat before he would accept them. The War of the First Coalition offered this undeniable proof, revealing the inherent weaknesses of traditional military establishments with their institutional inbreeding, and the promising future of national citizen armies. Interestingly, Scharnhorst also used historical analogies to reassure his wife and family. Writing to Klara in early May 1793 about his frustrations with the Hanoverian ruling elites, he predicted 'the prejudice necessitated by the present age cannot continue much longer.' Just as he had told Tempelhof in late January 1793, the violent revolution of the French people against their aristocratic masters clearly demonstrated this reality. He then informed Klara the present age was slipping away."

The War of the First Coalition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_...

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - This doesn't sound like the best way to fight a war:

"From London, the British government insisted on presenting a veil of civility toward the Belgium people, as did the Austrian Emperor. Indeed, the Austrian government had even forbidden the construction of field fortifications, so as not to destroy the farmlands, orchards, meadows, and canals in Flanders. Foraging was carefully monitored, and British officials paid Belgian citizens for any food and other essentials."

Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801 by Charles Edward White

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - It seems Scharnhorst acted well under fire in his first combat:

"At Hondschoote, Scharnhorst had set a fine example of leadership rarely seen in the standing professional army of the absolutist state. As he was directing artillery fire, he noticed several frightened infantrymen wandering aimlessly without effective leadership. Instead of ignoring these frightened men, he placed Bonnivet in charge of the two cannon while he rode over to the infantrymen, dismounted, and placed one of their wounded on his horse. It was his first time on foot under fire, and Scharnhorst seemed to cherish the moment, especially as he reassured the men around him. As he did this, he was at eye level with these soldiers - an essential leadership trait seldom seen in the professional standing army of the absolutist state. 'I told the troops to pay attention to me, and to follow me', he told Klara. His kindness toward one of their wounded must have been a sight to behold. When did any officer in the Hanoverian army ever dismount, place a wounded soldier on his horse, and then lead on foot? Scharnhorst did, and as he informed his wife, 'Everything went well'. The infantrymen remained with him. As the situation deteriorated, he acted to save these men. 'I had no order to stay, so I led only the infantry out'."

Battle of Hondschoote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/...

Scott wrote: "Napoleon
I finished Alan Forrest’s Napoleon over the weekend with this read being very much like a quick fast-food dinner; tasty whilst reading but litt..."

Sounds like your book would be a good primer for Napoleon which would hopefully led the reader onto more in-depth studies.

That was a very interesting piece of trivia, thanks for sharing Scott :)

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - I liked the list of some of Scharnhorst favourite military commanders. This bloke has always fascinated me but finding a book in English on the subject has been quite difficult:

"Raimondo Montecuccoli (1609-80) was Scharnhorst's 'favourite author'. Born into a noble family near Modena in northern Italy, Montecuccoli entered the Imperial Army at 16 and served the Hapsburgs throughout his long and distinguished military career. He fought in nearly all of the battles of the Thirty Years War (1618-48) - Breitenfeld (1631), Lutzen (1632), Nordlingen (1634), Kaaiserlautern (1635), Wittstock (1636), Chemnitz (1639), and Melnik (1639), becoming a dashing cavalry leader and rising to the rank of general. After the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, he represented Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I (1658-1705) and Pope Innocent X (1644-55) on several diplomatic missions to Flanders, England, and Sweden. He then commanded the Austrian corps sent to aid Poland against Sweden in the Nordic War (1656-60). When the Turks invaded southern Europe in 1663, Montecuccoli was again in command, this time of a combined European army that decisively defeated a superior Turkish forces at St Gotthard Abbey on the Raab River, on 1 August 1664. Hailed as the saviour of Europe, a grateful Leopold appointed him to Feldmarschall-Lieutenant of the Empire, one of the highest ranks in the army and second only to the emperor himself. In 1668, Leopold added another accolade to Montecuccoli's impressive resume, making him president of the Austrian Imperial War Council [Hofkriegsrat]."

Raimondo Montecuccoli:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raimond...

Indeed Betsy, like the issues that he was confronted with when he published his Military Library (1782-1784);

"This was a periodical of around 150-170 pages, intended to acquaint officers of all arms of the service with important military literature, and to provide information on the 'internal spirit' or condition of different armies (their discipline, means of supply, training, and artillery). Military Library was designed primarily for infantry and cavalry officers, 'who are able to procure few books for themselves'."

He was attacked and heavily criticized for presuming to review any book written by a superior officer!

"Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801" - Vested interests again playing their part in stopping sensible progress:

"Many officers in Hanover were adamantly opposed to the establishment of an artillery school, convinced that formal 'academic learning' [Schulpedanterie] was totally unnecessary. They remained content with the informal customs and traditions (meaning mostly mentoring) for the education, training, and socialization of cadets, pages, and young officers. An artillery school meant standardisation of instruction and publicly educating not just the middle and lower classes, but also the aristocracy. It entailed book-learning, the exchange of ideas, competition among students, periodic examinations to measure progress, and public recognition, all of which the ruling elite viewed as a dangerous precedent. Because of aristocratic meddling, it would take Trew nearly a decade for all the issues of curriculum content, examination protocol, student selection, and costs to be resolved in a way that maintained the social conditions within the Hanoverian army."

Scharnhorst: The Formative Years, 1755-1801 by Charles Edward White

Betsy wrote: "Lest anyone think Scharnhorst was 'perfect' as a fledgling military leader White points out: "In so many of his letters home, Scharnhorst complained about virtually everything, giving the impressio..."

It's always handy to be able to blame someone else for your shortcomings, it seems to be a very rare person who can accept responsibility for their own actions.

Thanks for providing those details on the book Scott, good to keep that in mind if anyone else is tempted to read Alan Forrest’s book. Very interesting information about the role of women and how the perception changed under Napoleon.

Interesting post MR9. Maybe the alternative was worse, the return of the monarchy.

I just finished that chapter on Scharnhorst's education at Northeim and those details of Dorothea was pretty amazing, a very intelligent person by all accounts!

Totally agree Betsy, it's also a shame that vested interests undid a lot of his reforms after he died and it took a few years for his subjects to really appreciate what he tried to do for them and what he had actually done to ease their burdens and to protect them.